Jaysus, he looks a player too! Glides past people a bit like dembele. Maybe not as defensively solid as kessie?
Sign em both I say
Which midfielder should we buy to give Pogba more freedom
- Thread starter YouOnlyLiveTwice
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Sign em both I say
I really like the look of this lads skill set but I don’t think he’s ready to play here and I’m always calling for younger players to be signed and given a proper chance. He needs to go somewhere where he’ll get games. I can’t see us signing him and loaning him out for a year or 2 but that’s what I’d do. I think he could be a top player.
You can't buy effort.
Pogba's defensive effort has be abysmal and honestly, he needs to be told off.
Pogba's defensive effort has be abysmal and honestly, he needs to be told off.
Has to be Veratti. Would be perfect on the right side of a midfield 3.
Just out of curiosity, what about the lad makes you decide that he isn't ready for us? Did you think Eriksen was ready for the PL when he was still with Ajax?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm saying whether Frenkie De Jong is ready or not, I will most definitely take a punt on talents like him. We are a rich club, with great facilities and coaches, so I don't see much risks in taking punts on top young talents. I'm sick of seeing the other top clubs like Barca/Real/Bayern constantly signing them all up for cheap.
I hope that we do not miss out on another Eriksen or a Modric, just because players are simply 'not ready'. IMO, whether they are ready or not, is up to their mentality and determination to take the step up. Not looking forward to seeing Barca/Real/Spurs snap up youngsters and all we can do is create threads about them and moan about how we should've signed him when he was back at X league.
Basically, long story short; Never try, never know.
I would like to suggest a player, who in my mind is the real deal complete midfielder in the mould of Modric. His name is Stanislav Lobotka, he is 23 years old and plays for Celta Vigo in Spain. I have been following him for a couple of years now and could really see him in the heart of our midfield. He is tenacious, with good closing speed (we need some more of that next to the bigger guys) and great vision. A combination player, who would link up perfectly with the likes of Pogba and Matic.
He was the best player in the danish league for a couple of years, before switching to Celta last summer. Watching him play like a boss for Celta makes it likely that he will move on to bigger things very soon. He just keep on adding to his game and stepping up when required. How well he has performed and how much he is already valued was underlined by the fact that Celta already extended the 5-year contract he signed last summer! Inter Milan was rumoured to be after him this winter, but if we could snap him up in the summer, I really think we could have a great midfielder for the next decade.
He was the best player in the danish league for a couple of years, before switching to Celta last summer. Watching him play like a boss for Celta makes it likely that he will move on to bigger things very soon. He just keep on adding to his game and stepping up when required. How well he has performed and how much he is already valued was underlined by the fact that Celta already extended the 5-year contract he signed last summer! Inter Milan was rumoured to be after him this winter, but if we could snap him up in the summer, I really think we could have a great midfielder for the next decade.
Wow!
Keeping in mind this is a "best of YouTube" vid, and that it's mainly the Eresdivisie, he looks a proper talent alright. Like others have pointed out, i doubt he'd be ready to make the step to United without a stepping stone though. Love his style, a bit more defensive oriented ofcourse, but has a touch of De Bruyne in sliding past defenders and picking passes. According to Whoscored has tackling as one of his strengts aswell. Wish someone who watches Eresdivisie regularly could give a more detailed report on him, based on "reality" rather than a YouTube-video.
De Jong looks the type of player that goes to Dortmund or Monaco before they sell him for a big fee.
How has Dendoncker progressed this season?
I dont think De Jong would be a right fit here, he looks like a player in a possession based team, while we are still trying to find out what we are. Plays as a CB currently and is still young. I rate him and De Ligt highly from the current Ajax talents. I would stay another year or two before thinking about leaving. He played for 10 minutes against us in the Europa League final.
I love Frenkie de Jong, seems like the real deal. Also a fantastic kid personality wise. In my opinion Ajax' current trainer Ten Hag is misusing him as a center half. This is probably a result of Ten Hag working closely with Pep at Bayern where he trainer the 2nd team. Hell, he even has the same hair and beard style Pep does and proudly bears the monniker Pep ten Hag. It seems De Jong will soon reclaim his spot in mid field though. Because he's fantastic in midfield, he's the effortless kind of player who makes football look so incredibly easy, which is a joy to watch in my opinion.
Now I know a lot of Ajax talents are hyped up, but I can assure you Feyenoord supporters don't do this. Ajax is like our Liverpool (Though I suppose we equate more to 'pool and Ajax to United sadly) and if I have any chance to be negative about an Ajax prospect, I will seize the opportunity with both hands. Just look at the Justin Kluivert thread.
TL;DR: Special kid, can go all the way, but no where near ready at the moment. Perhaps in a year or 2-3.
The problem with buying players like De Jong and comparing him to Eriksen is that unless he is good enough to get into the team right now, our expectations and demands on the team make it difficult to groom young talent bought from outside. Eriksen only became the player he is now in the last 2 years, took him time to get there, got there with regular game time, and while he was getting there he wasn't pulling any trees.
This would be similar to how a lot of the fans see Martial for example. As productive as he is and as much as I love him, he has ways to go. Would our fans be patient with somebody like De Jong? Am not sure.
I for one would love for us to get somebody like him. One concern would be Pereira but I get the feeling he does not want to come back. In which case De Jong with another more established CM would be great.
This would be similar to how a lot of the fans see Martial for example. As productive as he is and as much as I love him, he has ways to go. Would our fans be patient with somebody like De Jong? Am not sure.
I for one would love for us to get somebody like him. One concern would be Pereira but I get the feeling he does not want to come back. In which case De Jong with another more established CM would be great.
Allan from Napoli is a decent box-to-box midfielder.
I think people who compare De Jong to Eriksen needs to brush up on their history because Eriksen was a way bigger talent and also much more experienced. Eriksen had already played a ton of matches as a key player for Ajax in both the league and in CL. He had won numerous titles and awards and the general sentiment from the Ajax fans was that he was ready to move on.
Also it’s not correct that Eriksen didn’t deliver for Spurs until two years ago. In fact he pretty much delivered from the start. He was awarded Tottenham player of the year in his first season! He was also one of the few players who managed to grow under Tim Sherwood. Remember all those late goals he used to score. Like it’s not even that many years ago that we all made fun of how Eriksen was the only one who was good with the Bale money. What you are saying is completely wrong.
Thought Kovačić looked excellent for Madrid last night. He's only 23, rarely gets a decent run in the team and his release clause is allegedly "only" ~€50m, which in today's market is the going rate. I reckon he's gettable, especially if United can give him a big increase in wages.
Its likely I am remembering wrong. Perhaps our resident spurs supporters (the sane ones) can help, @balaks @InLevyITrust.
I was under the impression he was doing ok but only in the last 2 years has he grown into this level of consistent sustained excellence.
I genuinely do not remember all the late goals.
Don’t start me off. He’d be perfect.
Like the look of Lewis Cook too. Don’t think we need a long-passer like Carrick per se, we need a technical knitter who can keep the ball moving u see pressure and at speed.
The speed at which we get the ball forward is unacceptable.
He'd be a great buy, very good on the ball and has added real box to box defensive workrate over the last couple of seasons.
If we are planning to play 4-2-3-1 next season, I will go for Fekir. He can be a good addition in right side of attack in 4-3-3 too.
Jose has talked about how he can play 1 #6 and 2 #8s. Fekir has played few games as #8 too where he looked good, but i doubt that will solve our problem or create similar problem as POgba.
I dont think Sergej is answer too. Too similar to POgba not just in style but also sometimes he tend to take it casually and make miss passes, hold on to ball for too long etc. like POgba does.
Jose has talked about how he can play 1 #6 and 2 #8s. Fekir has played few games as #8 too where he looked good, but i doubt that will solve our problem or create similar problem as POgba.
I dont think Sergej is answer too. Too similar to POgba not just in style but also sometimes he tend to take it casually and make miss passes, hold on to ball for too long etc. like POgba does.
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Honestly he’s been brilliant since we signed him scoring and assisting, in the last 2 seasons though he has upped his consistency levels and is now capable of running a game where as in his first few seasons one of my main criticisms of him was his ability to put a tackle in and drag the team on. I’ve said it before when we don’t have him in the team or he is out of form we suffer massively, if we’re talking about how we play as a team he is more important than Kane.
true - but he is at Madrid and got 34 games in his first season, 39 in his second and has 24 so far this season - looks like he will get more time as modric gets older so regardless of his release clause I cant see why he would want to leave Madrid
Pretty much what I think, although I'd question his effort in general, not just his defensive effort. He doesn't look like he's giving 100%, or even near anywhere near it.. Maybe it's just my brains version of events, but even though I thought he was the least of Juve's midfield 3 at the time, he worked hard and looked like a man with something to prove. He's just not involved in our play right now, regardless of where he plays.
Still, I think he's very talented and when he's on it he's really on it. What I do think is that whoever comes in to fill the Herrera/McTominay position needs to be the finished article, and ultimately needs to be our best midfielder.
Said a few weeks ago that it's been a long time that I have seen someone as talented as Frenkie play for us. He's incredible and to me he clearly stands out among our other youngsters who I do rate too.
That being said he absolutely should (and almost certainly will as has has a contract till 2022 and we don't need money and will already sell key player(s)) stay for another season (and actually beyond).
He'll be one of our starting midfielders and keyplayers from the get go next season. I think he certainly should experience that before even thinking about leaving.
Who will be sold?
I like De Ligt and Dolberg too, even if Dolberg has a difficult season, i still think he is class. De Ligt is a phenomenal CB talent
Will it matter? Scott has been implemented of late to give Pogba freedom to roam and what has he done? Absolutely nothing.
Anyway, a while back, my mate asked me if I could take one player from a low-level PL team to OT that i'd be convinced would be good for us, who would it be?
I said Doucoure. Something about him tells me he'd step up to the plate at a bigger team. Glad to see us linked with him. Him and a Carrick replacement would be a good summer, with Carrick and Fellaini bowing out.
Anyway, a while back, my mate asked me if I could take one player from a low-level PL team to OT that i'd be convinced would be good for us, who would it be?
I said Doucoure. Something about him tells me he'd step up to the plate at a bigger team. Glad to see us linked with him. Him and a Carrick replacement would be a good summer, with Carrick and Fellaini bowing out.
Ziyech for sure. It was already likely at the start of the season but the way the season has been going the only way I see him staying is if no club tries to get him.
That's the only one I'm sure about but there are a few more who are in doubt at the moment (I think mostly Veltman and Kluivert).
Agree about these two. Dolberg had a terrible season everything taken into account but he looked so good I'm sure he'll bounce back. Young talents often struggle in the first few years. And de Ligt is just awesome.
Is Arthur to Barca really a done deal?
De Jong is a classy young player; he has the ability to dribble well- but the fact he has been pushed back to play at the centre of defence of a back 3 is why he is getting the space to run in to midfield and beyond.
The future of United is 352 and we will see it come back to Old Trafford post mourinho (most possibly under a youthful manager of our own
) - when that happens you will see the central CB of United joining with the midfield much more & De Jong would be able to do it quite well in the PL.The middle CB like De Jong/ Dier / Blind s is a carbon copy of what messi was as a false 9 in between 2 wider forwards; however inverted to play in between 2 central midfielders.
What Messi did as a false 9 was to drop deep & collect the ball - dribble in to the open spaces created by the two wider forwards in front of him; having the ability to take on the defenders or make the pass- He was a hybrid AM/CF; the false 9.
What a similar player in defence does is this :
- Is protected by two wider CB's - allows the central centre back to start deep
- Has space in front of him from 2 CM's that give him the option to dribble or make the pass; from a deeper area. ( allowing him to play further away from the opposition midfield to dictate play)
- Has the ability to push up to be an extra man in midfield or be an extra man in defence depending on whether we as a team attack or defend ( this allows us to play with only 2 CB and 2 full backs in defence- or a 5 man defence with the addition of the CDM/CB hybrid player)
The 352 allows Pogba the freedom for him to move forward knowing that there is an extra central defender that can accommodate a midfield space both attackingly and defensively; giving us that 3rd man in midfield only when it is needed. It also gives us the option to have an extra man in defence only when needed. Not only that but Pogba gets extra help from the CAM in the 352 who will also be playing more like a false 9 because :
the 352 works around having 2 Hybrid players
LF-RF
CF/CAM/CM
LWB-CM-CM-RWB
CDM/CB/CM
CB-CB
The player who is able to play in defence of the bold section must have the ability to play and shift across all 3 areas. Likewise the the CAM.
We will see this formation within the next 2 years
- Cant wait for it!Thanks guys, i appreciate a qualified assessment. Like De Ligt i’ll add De Jong to the list of talents to keep a track on in the coming years!
Agree about Fekir, he could be our KDB/Eriksen. But if we are going to play 4231, we are going to need a right winger to compete with Mata.
SMS would be a fantastic addition, but as you mentioned, he is similar to Pogba. So, a deep-lying playmaker makes more sense.
Get us a Kovavćic clone I say
Verratti - if his body can hold up in the PL.
Real wont sell Kovacic unless for a record fee.
Who ever it is needs to have a good engine and work rate
Real wont sell Kovacic unless for a record fee.
Who ever it is needs to have a good engine and work rate
Am I crazy for thinking/remembering that Kovacic was always more attack minded? He's similar to Pogba in that although a midfielder leans more towards attacking. He's not really the kind of midfielder that would run things from the center like Verratti.
Apparently Arthur to Barca has broken down.
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/fc-...30/fc-barcelonas-arthur-move-collapses-report
Also apparently they don't have any Non- EU spots left as they are taken by Paulinho Coutinho and Yerry Mina
I think the lad is sulking and trying to force Mourinho to move Sanchez to the right. To be honest, i understand his frustration with Sanchez considering Sanchez seems to roam wherever he pleases.
However, this doesn't excuse him from the lack of effort. We have conceded silly goals because of him. The Moses vs Pogba challenge that led to Willian's goal. The Townsend curler which deflected of Lindelof was also partially Pogba's fault since he wasn't even aware that Townsend was heading towards a dangerous position.
I'm fine with us having a less than fluid attack but what i can't tolerate is lack of defensive effort. It will cost the team.
I think he'd be perfect.
Wouldn’t they be able to sign him and loan him back for six months, pending Coutinho getting a Portuguese passport next January?