Music Where has all the music gone?
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But seriously, I think you're massively underestimating the influence of bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam and RATM. Nirvana especially were hugely influential on both sides of the pond, and to write them off as one-hit wonders is to overlook Unplugged In New York (one of the best live albums around), not to mention In Utero which was a more than worthy follow up to Nevermind. It is of course possible that had Cobain not died that they'd have ended up like Oasis, re-recording Pixies riffs for another 4 albums, but they didn't and their brief output was both good and a real influence on so many kids that went off to form their own bands.
Finally (as your post is far too long to reply to everything
) you say oasis have variety - well they vary their tempo, I'll give you that, as did Nirvana. Listen to Negative Creep (hard and fast) then listen to Dumb (melodic and slow), listen to Lithium and Polly, their covers of Man Who Sold The World, Where Did You Sleep Last Night, Lake Of Fire etc.I'd never claim Nirvana were a hugely original or innovative band, Smells Like Teen Spirit is a rip-off of a Pixies riff - but worldwide they were far bigger in influence and lasting effect than Oasis
What a great thread
Cheers for the laugh fella.
Cheers for the laugh fella.
A slightly interesting moment though, is that although RATM, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Oasis, and even the Pumpkins who's got far more going for them than the others, have been hugely influential, I struggle to see any truly good bands they have inspired, quite the opposite. From the Pumpkins you got forgetful stuff like Bush, from RATM came all the terrible rap rock a la Limp Bizkit, etc.
I think it's far easier to see the valuable input from Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, Black Sabbath, Fairport Convention, Kate Bush, etc. Of course it's far too early to judge what influence the 90s bands will have had, but it's not looking good, is it?
Smells like Teen Spirit is one of Nirvana's weaker songs. Nevermind has at least half a dozen classic tracks on it.
You are constantly confusing popularity with quality.
Wasn't a Nirvana fan one bit, I appreciate they were almost revolutionary with that Seattle Sound (although really, it was between them and Pearl Jam only and Pearl Jam more or less surfed on Nirvana's wave of success) and they had a fresh sound and look, but it's never really moved me at all.
I've been accused of being a big Oasis-fanboy which I have freely admitted that I was and probably still am, but I need to point out I am into far more than just Oasis, Madchester, The Beatles, John Lennon etc, I have a massive amount of music in my catalogue including Motown, rock, dance, hip-hop (particularly 80s and 90s) and pop with a few oddballs thrown in such as a few classical music entries and even some hymns (don't ask me why), so I'm not just a one-dimensional Oasis indie muppet.
Bring back New Order, The Happy Mondays, Inspiral Carpets, The Charlatains, The Farm, Electronic etc.
Bring back New Order, The Happy Mondays, Inspiral Carpets, The Charlatains, The Farm, Electronic etc.
I was watching this thing on VH1 t'other night mate, it was entitled Madchester and had performances from several acts from the eighties onwards and they were from Manchester. Really, Electronic were horrendously gay, not just because Neil Tennant was part of them but they were bad. I don't mind some of the Charlatans, Tellin' Stories was a great album in my view but I have an issue with Tim Burgess, he was once an Ian Brown clone then later on he adopted the arms folded behind his back a la Liam Gallagher...he just didn't have his stylee!
Well you have come across as a bit of a 90s indie muppet (not that I dont like a lot of the stuff you mention) but Im sure we can give you chance to redeem yourself!
So what other bands do you rate? what is the most recent stuff you like?
FWIW I think 'Definitely Maybe' is an ALL TIME classic album - every track is a winner and it had a massive cultural impact at the time, in the UK it was as iconic as 'Nevermind'. I dont think Blur ever made an album that was as good, although their back catalogue is probably superior to Oasis'.
Funnily enough, it was actually Oasis and Nirvana that first persuaded me to explore guitar based music - before their breakthrough, I was only listening to hiphop.
Well as I say mate, there's not really anything in recent years that I have really enjoyed apart from the odd single here and there, I think there is a distinct lack of quality musical albums and that is the whole point of this thread.
A few years back, I thought The Killers were going to be good with that Somebody Told Me followed up by the really good Mr Brightside, but then they got daft and overhyped on their own (limited) success and went away, grew moustaches and looked like dicks in waistcoats and have done feck all since.
I had heard of The Kings of Leon without much interest then Sex on Fire blew me away, it was a top tune but again, their other tunes since 'Use Somebody' and 'Revelry' etc all sound the same and they fall into that 'oh look at us, we're musicians' category with their dirty, greasy hair and beards and some cnut wearing glasses....can't he afford contacts?
Hip-hop wise, nothing has interested me much aside from In Da Club which was a good while ago now and Fifty Cent has done feck all since really so I tend to just listen to old NWA, Doggy Style (none of his new guff), and that's it really.I hate Eminem som he's never done nowt for me either.
There is a band coming out of Manchester who have a huge local following and sold out the Academy the other night and they haven't even released a single yet. They're called The Vortex and come form Prestwich and Ancoats and are a top, top band. They definitely fall into the Oasisy, Stone Rosesy, Primal Screamy sounding category and...wait for it....have an ex-Oasis band member within their midst in Bonehead, but they are a top band and well worth a listen.
Go to myspace and look for The Vortex, music, Manchester and that should direct you to their tunes. Look out for one called 'All Over Now', it's a belter.
For impact and grabing the youth of the time by the balls no (I was one of them, DM was a BIG album for me at the time) but I am a huge admirer of Blurs last album, Think Tank, think it is easily their best work to date, and musically a far superior album to DM, funnily enough, without Graham Coxon too, say what you like about that.
I seriously don't see the big thing about Blur at all. I remember they were probably the best thing about early to mid-1994 with the Parlkife album and Boys and Girls and onbviously Parklife as singles were fun and catchy, but at the same time, Definitely Maybe's first two singles (of which the second, Shakermaker was in my view the weakest track on the album) were released but fared decidely average, making it to no higher than the Top Thirty but then Live Forever was released in the July or August and that completely blew everyone away, making the top three and pissed all over any of Blur's efforts.
Welcome to Earth, pop. 6 billion.
At the time of DM, I was easily the bigger Oasis fan than Blur, although a fan of both, it was a great album, as Parklife was too, the real gems being the songs that weren't released imo.
But it's the latter years where my opinions have changed, with Blurs last three albums seeing a more mature approach to their music and their best work because of it imo.
Give Think Tank a chance, you never know, you might like it.
Also, another great band not even mentioned in this thread is Elbow, one of the greatest bands to have come out of Manchester, you should be proud of them too Johno.
Oh, and The Bends was better than both of them, imo of course.
This was a good album, I'm not a huge dance fan but this was pretty good;
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This was a good album, I'm not a huge dance fan but this was pretty good;
fecking great album.
Another one around this time was Leftism by Leftfield, my favorite dance album of all time.
Killer's 'Hot Fuss' is actually a pretty good but overplayed album - but not much of any use from them after that. Kings Of Leon have a couple of decent tracks but thats it.
But that doesnt really mean much as I dont think many people in this thread will try and tell you that either is among the best new bands of the decade anyway.
How much hiphop do you listen to nowadays? Dont tell me that you cant be arsed because the chart stuff like Enimem and 50cent are average - that would just mean you are too lazy to seek out the decent new shit!
If you can appreciate The Prodigy then there must be dance stuff today which would appeal to you - I think you need to make more of an effort to listen to stuff that is recommended by others on here.
On a side note, you do seem to mention a lot of acts (Oasis / Snoop / Killers / Stone Roses) who's debuts are usually considered to be their best work.
It is a strange phenomena, I suppose that if you instantly hit the right musical formula and get mainstream success then there is not as much motivation to change it too much. Other bands have to grow and experiment with their sound over years before they break out - perhaps that makes it easier continue to innovate over time.
Mockney I think I love you.
But I love Johnno, too.
Thing is, Johnno, you're very keen to point out the influence that Oasis have had on a lot of music coming after them (in the same way the Beatles influenced everything that came after them), but I'd argue they weren't even the most influential band of the nineties - Radiohead and Nirvana have done more in their time. I mean, even directly - look at what Dave Grohl has gone on to do. Where Liam Gallagher has spent his time being beaten up by estate agents in Germany, Mr. Grohl has played for two of the biggest bands in the past twenty years (Nirvana and the Foo Fighters), and guested and influenced many others.
And that's glossing over the music that influenced the generation after yours (mine), that people of my age would argue were far more influential that Oasis, like Rage Against the Machine. Rage are fecking brilliant, but I bet in ten years I'll sit there saying how there's nothing good anymore, and the generation beneath me will tell me I'm being a blinkered old fart, and that Kings of Leon and Muse were just as influential.
For what it's worth I think the best band of the 2000s by quite some distance has been Muse, who don't look like slowing down any time soon, so there is still good music out there.
But I love Johnno, too.
Thing is, Johnno, you're very keen to point out the influence that Oasis have had on a lot of music coming after them (in the same way the Beatles influenced everything that came after them), but I'd argue they weren't even the most influential band of the nineties - Radiohead and Nirvana have done more in their time. I mean, even directly - look at what Dave Grohl has gone on to do. Where Liam Gallagher has spent his time being beaten up by estate agents in Germany, Mr. Grohl has played for two of the biggest bands in the past twenty years (Nirvana and the Foo Fighters), and guested and influenced many others.
And that's glossing over the music that influenced the generation after yours (mine), that people of my age would argue were far more influential that Oasis, like Rage Against the Machine. Rage are fecking brilliant, but I bet in ten years I'll sit there saying how there's nothing good anymore, and the generation beneath me will tell me I'm being a blinkered old fart, and that Kings of Leon and Muse were just as influential.
For what it's worth I think the best band of the 2000s by quite some distance has been Muse, who don't look like slowing down any time soon, so there is still good music out there.
Blur did get better over time - I cant stand 'Country House' and all that. I do respect Damon as well, especially for stuff outside of Blur, thought he was a twat back then but that was kind of obligatory if you came from Manchester!
But I still put DM as more culturally important than anything that Blur ever released.
Yes Elbow a great shout - have a listen Johnno!
I might even agree with that - a great album - tends to get forgotten with the amount of adulation for OK Computer and everything after it.
I'm not the biggest Radiohead fan but my favourite album is probably Pablo Honey. Creep has to be one of the best songs of the nineties.
Mockney I think I love you.
But I love Johnno, too.
Thing is, Johnno, you're very keen to point out the influence that Oasis have had on a lot of music coming after them (in the same way the Beatles influenced everything that came after them), but I'd argue they weren't even the most influential band of the nineties - Radiohead and Nirvana have done more in their time. I mean, even directly - look at what Dave Grohl has gone on to do. Where Liam Gallagher has spent his time being beaten up by estate agents in Germany, Mr. Grohl has played for two of the biggest bands in the past twenty years (Nirvana and the Foo Fighters), and guested and influenced many others.
And that's glossing over the music that influenced the generation after yours (mine), that people of my age would argue were far more influential that Oasis, like Rage Against the Machine. Rage are fecking brilliant, but I bet in ten years I'll sit there saying how there's nothing good anymore, and the generation beneath me will tell me I'm being a blinkered old fart, and that Kings of Leon and Muse were just as influential.
For what it's worth I think the best band of the 2000s by quite some distance has been Muse, who don't look like slowing down any time soon, so there is still good music out there.
Who the feck have Radiohead influenced?
Alright, I can play this game too. Who the feck have Oasis influenced of note? Kasabian?
Nah, no no no! I asked you first, I keep hearing Radiohead are influential but I would like to hear who. And I am including culture also here, I cannot recall many kids back in the 90s jibbing about dyeing their hair orange and wearing clothes from Oxfam and adding an uneccessary H to their names. "Hi, I'm Jhohnno"....
If you would like to know who I believe Oasis influenced, then let's have it; Coldplay, poster boys for the Southern poofs out there. Chris Martin said specifically in an article he was on his grandparents farm in Zimbabwe or somewhere when he heard Definitely Maybe on cassette and he said it changed his life. There's one, even though I wish he had bought Barbie Girl by Aqua first....
Look at The Charlatans lead singer, Tim Burgess. They were an established band and he was copying Ian Brown for years, then when Liam came along, there was Tim Burgess, parka clad and arms folded behind his back, leaning into the microphone. It was ridiculous, but there's another...
Directly? Kasabian.
Keane.
The Artic Monkeys.
Starsailor.
The Kaizer Chiefs.
The Music.
The Vortex...and a million other bands you may never have heard of, and neither have I.
But the biggest aspect is the culture, the dress and the attitude which sent a million Liam clones jibbing round England and the UK. Southerners on holiday mimicking phrases with nay shame, such as 'our kid', 'sorted', 'sound' etc.
Manchester Uni was inundated with applications from students around Britain trying to get a piece of the Mancunian musical odyssey. Adidas jackets and classic trainers and the Liam haircut became de rigeur.
Radiohead never had as much influence as that...our kid.
But as Mockney said - that's a very localised view. I can tell you, down here we didn't get loads of people suddenly wearing parkas and leaning into microphones pretending to be northern. What we did get was people with massive headphones listening to Radiohead and talking about how life-changing it was.
I will point out, though, that if you listen to an interview with nearly any *new* band they'll name Radiohead as an influence. Most of them, of course, will also name Oasis as an influence, and it comes down to (1) it's actually merely what they listened to because it was what was on when they were younger and it hasn't really influenced their music at all, and (2) it sounds good to name a load of famous bands as your influence - as if you might be able to be put into the same category.
Grohl was in Nirvana ffs. He influenced himself? Hah!
Why do you and him keep going on about my localised view? I know I take the piss calling you Southern poofs and that, but as I clearly have stated, I met LOADS of lads with the Liam look, the strutt and the get-up, even loads of birds who were proper into the scene. My life wasn't restricted to just Manchester, you know, being in my mid-to-late teens, my mates and I and my family would travel to other places in Britain, be it to watch United, go visit a mate at uni in another part of the country or go on hoiday or something and I promise you, I met PLENTY of Southerners, Taffys, Geordies, Scousers, Brummies etc who were well into the Oasis culture and by that, I mean the hair, the walk and even referring to each other as 'our kid' in stupid accents which didn't match the phrase. This was most prominent in Spain or Greece on holiday when lads or birds found out we were from Manchester, it was Oasis this, Oasis that, Moss Side this, Salford that (for those of you that don't know, these were two prominently violent places in Britain in the mid-Nineties with lots of shooting deaths).
And I'm not being funny here now CD, but how old are you mate? I thought you were only about 20/21? If so, you were only seven or eight at the time this was going on. I was eight or nine when Madchester was going on, which was meant to have been more prominent than the Oasis/Britpop era yet I can't remember it all, I do remember dickheads wearing Joe Bloggs as we lived near the factory but that's about it, you must have had one hell of a musical sense about you if you can comment on the culture from when you were eight or nine!
I came over here to Oz in 1998 and all the Pommy and Irish backpackers and ex-pats from all over were crazy about Oasis, so you can't tell me that down South, the kids there weren't as affected as us Nowvun Mankeys, because I can tell you from experience that they were, in their droves.
I think Tennant only did one track with Electronic (Getting Away with It) and the rest of the three albums were Marr and Sumner. Their first album was absolutely brilliant.
Top notch mate, that's bang on but they are tainted because they had Tennant sing on that track, which was pretty good actually or would be without him on and his rodent filled rectum...
Dogs Die in Hot Cars
2004 release, great album. Bit retro pop sounding.
"please describe yourself"
Why the hell every time i spell album i spell it albumn and then have to change it.
Album.
2004 release, great album. Bit retro pop sounding.
"please describe yourself"
Why the hell every time i spell album i spell it albumn and then have to change it.
Album.
I think alot of you have missed the point of the op, of course, there is a lot of good music out there, but you have to find it!
The fact that you have to really go out and look for it causes the bit in bold to not happen. He's right, there is no movement, no great cultural scene, its been completely pasteurised by the media money maker types. Music shouldnt be about making money - it wasnt then and we had artistic movements. Can you imagine anything like the late 80s and early 90s scene we had in manchester happening in england again? The factory would probably play leona lewis now!
Thankfully i think this particular era is coming to a close, with the rise of the internet, these horrible media money making types are finding it harder and harder to reach and hold onto their target audience. In time theyll feck off to the next mass money making scheme and leave the music back in the hands of the people that knew what to fecking do with it.
Now lets eat to the beat and blame it on the weatherman.
No, no, that's my point. He influenced people through being in Nirvana, and he's still influencing music today in a way the Gallaghers (and ol' Damon from Blur) can only dream of.
Indeed I am, which is why I'm basing my experiences on the latter half of the nineties when I was more clued up on the whole experience.
I don't want to get shouted at by Johnno, but felt I had to reply
Radiohead's ventures into mixing intelligent guitar rock with heavy sonic experimentation has influenced many of today's indie acts. While their earlier work, mostly "High and Dry", also influenced many mainstream bands that emerged in the late 90s at the end of the britpop scene.
In fact, that one song alone was pretty much the basis for Coldplay and Muse's early work, before they both eventually progressed. Then you have Keane, Snow Patrol, Travis, Elbow, Doves, Placebo, James Blunt, James Morrisson and all the other "soppy, dreary shite" that came out at that time.
Their use of experimental, electronic rock, has influenced Foals, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party, TV on the Radio, Blonde Redhead, Wilco, Modest Mouse, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Animal Collective, Studio, Dirty Projectors, Grizzly Bear and Peter, Bjorn & John, along with many, many more.
You mentioned "Creep" as the highlight of their career, when in fact that whole album was their weakest point, as it was nothing more than a Nirvana covers album. The Bends is where they came into their own, then they blew everyone away with OK Computer.
Would be interesting to compare this decade to the 90's.
In terms of Live music, the 90's was fantastic. And looking back it would be difficult for this decade to compete.
My 90's Highlights.
The Seattle scene (Nirvana-pearl jam-soundgarden-AIC)
The Bristol Scene (Massive Attack-Tricky-Portishead)
Oasis.
Radiohead.(Bends-Ok computer)
RHCP (Blood Sugar Sex Magik)
RATM
The Prodigy
The Wu Tang Clan (and the solo projects)
Fugees (score album)
REM -Beck-PJ Harvey-Dr Dre-GnR-Primus-(biggy and Pac).
In terms of Live music, the 90's was fantastic. And looking back it would be difficult for this decade to compete.
My 90's Highlights.
The Seattle scene (Nirvana-pearl jam-soundgarden-AIC)
The Bristol Scene (Massive Attack-Tricky-Portishead)
Oasis.
Radiohead.(Bends-Ok computer)
RHCP (Blood Sugar Sex Magik)
RATM
The Prodigy
The Wu Tang Clan (and the solo projects)
Fugees (score album)
REM -Beck-PJ Harvey-Dr Dre-GnR-Primus-(biggy and Pac).
And I agree with that, but being culturally important doesn't necessarily make it the better album.
I would argue all day about Think Tank being the better album musically (whatever the feck that means) whilst still holding a nostalgic love for DM.
I take it you have heard Think Tank Rood?
This is a surprisingly good thread for the Entertainment Forum!