Being slow wasn't the problem to be fair.
Where does Ancelotti rank among all time great managers?
- Thread starter sullydnl
- Start date
Being slow wasn't the problem to be fair.
He's always been one of my favourite managers and in my opnion he's top 5 all time. In terms of man management, he might be the best ever along with Sir Alex at managing teams filled with big characters.
Not the same exposure, not the same risks, even if he going to Everton was a bit of a head scratcher.
But now? No chance.
People buy into this romance stuff of legacy but if the cash is right then players/managers/whoever will go.
Not really. It's more of a case of the closed shop that is the CL now being easier to win if you have the resources of a club like Madrid and the safety net of group stages. Back when European cup was a straight knockout tournament it was much tougher.
Watching Atalanta win the Europa league and Olympiakos win the conference (their first major European trophy) was much more exciting than last night's CL final. The "fairytales" are in the Europa league and conference league now. CL is just for a few ultra rich elite clubs who hoard all the resources i e. Best players.
Anyway, for me, trappatoni had the better record. The UEFA cup was a formidable tournament to win back in the 70s/80s. Winning all three major European trophies is a helluva achievement.
Here's Trappatoni record:
Manager honours
- with Juventus
- Italian League (6): 1976–77, 1977–78, 1980–81, 1981–82, 1983–84, 1985–86
- Italian Cup (2): 1978–79, 1982–83
- European Cup (1): 1984–85
- UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1984
- UEFA Cup (2): 1977, 1993
- European Super Cup (1): 1984
- Intercontinental Cup (1): 1985
- with Inter Mailand
- Italian League (1): 1988–89
- UEFA Cup (1): 1991
- with Bayern Munich
- German League (1): 1996–97
- German Cup (1): 1997–98
- German League Cup (1): 1996–97
- with Benfica
- Portuguese League (1): 2004–05
- with Red Bull Salzburg
- Austrian Bundesliga(1): 2006–07
Manager
Juventus
AC Milan
- Serie A: 2003–04[286]
- Coppa Italia: 2002–03[286]
- Supercoppa Italiana: 2004[286]
- UEFA Champions League: 2002–03,[287] 2006–07;[288] runner-up: 2004–05[289]
- UEFA Super Cup: 2003,[290] 2007[291]
- FIFA Club World Cup: 2007[292]
Paris Saint-Germain
Real Madrid
- La Liga: 2021–22,[296] 2023–24[297]
- Copa del Rey: 2013–14,[298] 2022–23[299]
- Supercopa de España: 2021–22,[300] 2023–24[301]
- UEFA Champions League: 2013–14,[302] 2021–22,[303] 2023–24[304]
- UEFA Super Cup: 2014,[305] 2022[306]
- FIFA Club World Cup: 2014,[307] 2022[308]
Sorry which other managers have taken over a treble winning team and then had a team that financially cheats and will spend whatever it takes to win? His best achievement was assembling that Barca side but since then he has under achieved with the resources he's had.
I think those arguments make sense as long as you ignore how his teams play. You can observe the effect a coach has on his team. And Guardiola's influence is by far the most transformative in the game right now. He's not simply assembling squads of great players, he's having them play with a level of organization and cohesiveness that's unmatched.
Lots of people here live in a dream world where money is not important.
He was a low period in his career at that time. He was sacked in his last two jobs by Bayern and Napoli and his reputation was down. No way he would be going for a similar job now given how much he's regained that reputation.
Not to say he wouldn't join United, I think it's perfectly reasonable that he does because he doesn't seem like that type to not take to a challenge.
It's bizarre that Everton of all clubs landed a manager who had won three CL titles, and league titles in Italy and England.
Even more bizarre that he then left them to go and win two more CL titles and two la liga titles.
Like a weird dream that he ever managed that lot.
Even more bizarre that he then left them to go and win two more CL titles and two la liga titles.
Like a weird dream that he ever managed that lot.
Sure but we also offered a ton of money that made it an almost too good to refuse deal. If Ancelotti still has an appetite to manage and United offered the money, he would go.
He would join any team tomorrow provided the circumstances are right (i.e. The club is at the top or well on their way there and there is sufficient cash to take them over the top).
I think Carlo's role in what Real Madrid is now is largely played down. They hadn't won CL since 2002 when he took over in 2013, and despite the fact that Mourinho led them to three straight semis, they were generally chokers, having been destroyed and knocked out by many different teams in the earlier years.
This story of Madrid mentality is ridiculous, it wasn't there until Decima, and Zidane years after. Before that it was their main issue, according to many. Then Carlo came in and it suddenly became their main strength.
This story of Madrid mentality is ridiculous, it wasn't there until Decima, and Zidane years after. Before that it was their main issue, according to many. Then Carlo came in and it suddenly became their main strength.
Yea I don't think it would be an issue for us to get him if he wants to leave Madrid.
Yes when he either has the best player to ever play the game, a treble winning team or financial doping he truly can achieve a reasonable rate of success. But underachieve based on the resources he has had.
But those teams wanted him. They basically could have had whoever they wanted but chose Guardiola - because he is the coaching equivalent to the elite squads they assembled. We've never seen Guardiola coach a team consisting of weaker players because he was so good he didn't need to prove himself at a lower tier club at any point in his career.
As for underachieving: Guardiola is on track to become the most successful coach ever.
Those 115 outstanding financial doping charges will taint any achievements when they are actually initiated.
League + CL double, 95 points, 2 defeats all season... painted his masterpiece in 23/24.
Your hatred for United.
I feel there are others with more tactical nous for sure but based on resume alone he's right up there for sure - 5 CL's and league titles in all 5 of the top leagues is highly impressive.
It will not.
Top clubs will still looking for his service.
I'm sure we will be happy if he decides to join us.
Too many props to the coach, when their success is down to the weak era and Perez. Who should get the credit mainly I think.
Smart transfers and Real are financially sound, they've got Mbappe coming and a really good young team.
Bartomeu and Laporta have run Barcelona in to the ground. Perez looks an absolute genius by comparison. Go back to when Barcelona sold Neymar and both clubs were similar financially.
La Liga has weakened massively in the last few years. When Real did get in trouble in the likes of the Almeria game, they had VAR to bail them out.
Wouldn't surprise me if Real win the next 10+ leagues in a row given Barcelona's financial problems and ref bribery scandal. Atletico are also a shadow of themselves from 3 or 5 years ago.
Real lost the xG in pretty much all the CL knockout rounds. The CL was pretty wide open this year and likely will be next year. City and Real the only really strong teams in this era and City likely to be relegated I think.
Smart transfers and Real are financially sound, they've got Mbappe coming and a really good young team.
Bartomeu and Laporta have run Barcelona in to the ground. Perez looks an absolute genius by comparison. Go back to when Barcelona sold Neymar and both clubs were similar financially.
La Liga has weakened massively in the last few years. When Real did get in trouble in the likes of the Almeria game, they had VAR to bail them out.
Wouldn't surprise me if Real win the next 10+ leagues in a row given Barcelona's financial problems and ref bribery scandal. Atletico are also a shadow of themselves from 3 or 5 years ago.
Real lost the xG in pretty much all the CL knockout rounds. The CL was pretty wide open this year and likely will be next year. City and Real the only really strong teams in this era and City likely to be relegated I think.
How can it be that other coaches and teams are incapable of exploiting this weak era, just Real Madrid?
Since 2014, they have won 6 Champions Leagues, is it weakest era of football ever or what?
Even if City would be stripped off their titles he'd be the best coach around. As said, you see his class when you watch his teams play. In the same way Messi is the best footballer I've seen regardless of the titles he won, Guardiola is the best coach I've seen.
Fair enough if you want Busby over Fergie, happy to agree to disagree.
How much did Calcicopoli of Juve and Milan taint Ancelotti
the idea that he's simply this cavalier manager who lets players do anything really discredits him. If we compare every tactic to guardiola's robotic bore-fest football, then yes, most teams will look less drilled, but Ancelloti is a fantastic manager and tactician. Top tier in my opinion, 5 champions leagues is insane - they dont even have a striker this season. A title in each of the 'big 5'. All thats left is a world cup and thats just getting silly
At this point I’m actually not convinced there’s a compelling argument for having him below SAF. Although it does count against him that he somehow only has two league titles with Real.
The mental gymnastic needed to claim Carlo is above Pep, yet Ferguson is above both Pep and Carlo is remarkable
CL
Carlo 5
Pep 3
Alex 2
CL
Carlo 5
Pep 3
Alex 2
He is CL king. I doubt he cares all about rest that much.
CL trophies aren't the ultimate barometer of success alone. All domestic league, cup, European trophies should be taken into account. You need luck in any cup competition. League titles are a marathon.
Pic below is from Jan 2023.
So Joe Fagan‘s a better manager than Bill Shankly? (1 to 0).
And Fagan is on a par as a manager with Busby? (1 each)?
All domestic shows Pep should be ahead of Carlo right?CL trophies aren't the ultimate barometer of success alone. All domestic league, cup, European trophies should be taken into account. You need luck in any cup competition. League titles are a marathon.
Pic below is from Jan 2023.
Pick a criteria and stick to it, if it's all titles of CL titles
It's actually amazing how perfect Ancelotti is for Madrid. I remember how he was mocked when he was at Bayern and rumours that players planned extra trainings because the training sessions wasn't enough.
At Madrid all you hear is how awesome Ancelotti is.
Regarding all-time greats, his league record is average to put him very high in the list. Saying that his CL record is just too awesome.
At Madrid all you hear is how awesome Ancelotti is.
Regarding all-time greats, his league record is average to put him very high in the list. Saying that his CL record is just too awesome.
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Ancelotti
Vs
Pep
Tied For 1st place for me. This is the Managerial Ronaldo vs Messi conversation. One won more CLs playing direct football and one played the more beautiful possesion football whilst making the best ever footballing team in history for many people, but was less prominent in the CLs overall.
3rd SAF.
Vs
Pep
Tied For 1st place for me. This is the Managerial Ronaldo vs Messi conversation. One won more CLs playing direct football and one played the more beautiful possesion football whilst making the best ever footballing team in history for many people, but was less prominent in the CLs overall.
3rd SAF.
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His mastery of the UCL puts him in top 3 easily. In no particular order: Sir Alex, Ancelotti and Pep (charges pending)
How can SAF be lower than either?
How to get an immediate NFP tag:
step 1 - rank Pep over SAF