Where does Ancelotti rank among all time great managers?

[DontBeMeanToBeRuud]

How can SAF be lower than either?

I personally dont think watchers out of the PL or United fans would put SAF as the best ever. I couldn't see a Serie A or La Liga fan saying SAF was the best as much as PL watchers do.

SAF had an amazing career that was very long, but so has Ancelotti's - its probably SAF's work done at Abredeen that puts him higher but at the same time Ancelotti has simply been more of a force in Europe.

Pep created the best team ever for many people. Was called the hardest team to ever beat by SAF. Won the CL's with city and Barcelona. Won league titles in 3 leagues whilst arguably being the best tactical manager ever. If Pep stayed at Barcelona all his life and just kept winning La Ligas and one more CL then he would have the same career as SAF except for what he achieved for Abredeen.

United under SAF lacked a bit of force in the CL in my opinion but at the same time their was an element of loyalty to United Ancelotti & Pep didn't give as much of but again i think the only people who care about that are United or PL fans.

 

[AshRK]

Take any game of football and make the players unrecognizable. You immediately recognize a Guardiola team or a Klopp team because of the level of organization and automatisms. I don't think you would recognize an Ancelotti team.

One could also immediately recognize a tony pulis or sean dyche side, doesn't mean they would be considered in the reckoning of goat managers. Trophy should be the measure to judge how great a manager is and if that is supported by play style as well then wonderful.

Ancelotti will be in reckoning to be called as the GOAT. People can say pep and that is a fair shout .

 

[dinostar77]

It's actually amazing how perfect Ancelotti is for Madrid. I remember how he was mocked when he was at Bayern and rumours that players planned extra trainings because the training sessions wasn't enough.

At Madrid all you hear is how awesome Ancelotti is.

Regarding all-time greats, his league record is average to put him very high in the list. Saying that his CL record is just too awesome.

He followed on from the intensity of pep guardiola. It was always going to be a dropoff. City's next manager will discover that. Ancelotti is perfect for Madrid as his man management skills are great. Not only for the dressing room but also the egos of the board at Madrid.

We will never know, but I do wonder what would have happened to Utd if Ancelotti had followed on from fergie. I think we would have won a title with him, before dropping off due to the glazer penny pinching and corner cutting.

 

[SilentWitness]

I personally dont think watchers out of the PL or United fans would put SAF as the best ever. I couldn't see a Serie A or La Liga fan saying SAF was the best as much as PL watchers do.

SAF had an amazing career that was very long, but so has Ancelotti's - its probably SAF's work done at Abredeen that puts him higher but at the same time Ancelotti has simply been more of a force in Europe.

Pep created the best team ever for many people. Was called the hardest team to ever beat by SAF. Won the CL's with city and Barcelona. Won league titles in 3 leagues whilst arguably being the best tactical manager ever. If Pep stayed at Barcelona all his life and just kept winning La Ligas and one more CL then he would have the same career as SAF except for what he achieved for Abredeen.

United under SAF lacked a bit of force in the CL in my opinion but at the same time their was an element of loyalty to United Ancelotti & Pep didn't give as much of but again i think the only people who care about that are United or PL fans.

SAF has double? the number of trophies that Ancelotti does. I wouldn't say it's just the Aberdeen success that he has over Ancelotti. In fact I'd say all that Ancelotti has over SAF is the CL success.

 

[heraklion]

SAF has double? the number of trophies that Ancelotti does. I wouldn't say it's just the Aberdeen success that he has over Ancelotti. In fact I'd say all that Ancelotti has over SAF is the CL success.

Ancelotti won UCL with 2 different teams, and won league titles in every league he went to. Pep as well.

SAF is untested outside the UK, he'd probably not last more than a couple of seasons at Real, Barca, or Bayern. Even Ancelotti was fired from Bayern after a season, Nagelsmann middle of the season when they were doing well in all fronts, or Flick after a treble winning season. This would be unthinkable at United. That's how ruthless the environment is out there. SAF was given all the patience, time, unlimited credit, tolerance in the world even after regular UCL failures. He wouldn't even last at Chelsea under Abramovich more than a few seasons, you either deliver quick and continue doing that especially in the UCL or are shown the door quick.

Hard to think he would be able to co-exist with Papa Perez, Bayern or Barca management either, his UCL record at United is not even impressive, so there would be a lot of doubts about him.

 

[Zehner]

One could also immediately recognize a tony pulis or sean dyche side, doesn't mean they would be considered in the reckoning of goat managers. Trophy should be the measure to judge how great a manager is and if that is supported by play style as well then wonderful.

Ancelotti will be in reckoning to be called as the GOAT. People can say pep and that is a fair shout .

I don't believe that. It could be any coach who parks the bus every once in a while.

 

[RG77]

He did do what Pep has been dreaming about for years. Win the CL with Midfield FC and no striker.

 

[AshRK]

I don't believe that. It could be any coach who parks the bus every once in a while.

Doesn't matter, a style of football is a style. Whether one likes it or not is a different point.

Again coming to my original point you can have all the style but if you don't win then your style means feck all. Klopp won't ever be talked when talking about top managers. The likes of Jose would be rated higher than Klopp.

 

[Giggsy13]

Ancelotti
Vs
Pep (potential cheating bastard)

Tied For 1st place for me. This is the Managerial Ronaldo vs Messi conversation. One won more CLs playing direct football and one played the more beautiful possesion football whilst making the best ever footballing team in history for many people, but was less prominent in the CLs overall.

3rd SAF.

Fixed it newb.

 

[dinostar77]

Doesn't matter, a style of football is a style. Whether one likes it or not is a different point.

Again coming to my original point you can have all the style but if you don't win then your style means feck all. Klopp won't ever be talked when talking about top managers. The likes of Jose would be rated higher than Klopp.

Klopp is a top manager. He managed to bring the league title to Liverpool after 30 years and went toe to toe against FC115.

Alright they (Liverpool) may have been caffeine doping, but city were financially doping.

If the argument is about the most trophies accumulated then Mourinho is way ahead of klopp and Ferguson is way ahead of everyone else.

Agree style is a completely different argument. Guardiola too bielsa football and made it successful at the highest level. Probably not seen anything in terms of tactical revolution since legendary Sacchi Milan of late 80s.

 

[SilentWitness]

Ancelotti won UCL with 2 different teams, and won league titles in every league he went to. Pep as well.

SAF is untested outside the UK, he'd probably not last more than a couple of seasons at Real, Barca, or Bayern. Even Ancelotti was fired from Bayern after a season, Nagelsmann middle of the season when they were doing well in all fronts, or Flick after a treble winning season. This would be unthinkable at United. That's how ruthless the environment is out there. SAF was given all the patience, time, unlimited credit, tolerance in the world even after regular UCL failures. He wouldn't even last at Chelsea under Abramovich more than a few seasons, you either deliver quick and continue doing that especially in the UCL or are shown the door quick.

Hard to think he would be able to co-exist with Papa Perez, Bayern or Barca management either, his UCL record at United is not even impressive, so there would be a lot of doubts about him.

You can point to records that SAF has that neither Pep nor Ancelotti do either. You could also compare Ancelotti CL record to Zidane and argue if it's impressive or not considering the latter managed to win three on the trot. Winning 5 CL titles is clearly a remarkable achievement but he's done it at the two clubs which have won the most CL titles. SAF won Aberdeen their only European trophies ever in their history and 2/3 of the CL titles United have.

No Aberdeen or United manager has even got near to achieving what SAF did at either club.

It's only recently that the allegedly doped up City has helped Pep creep closer to his trophy haul and he's still around 10+ off it.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

You can point to records that SAF has that neither Pep nor Ancelotti do either. You could also compare Ancelotti CL record to Zidane and argue if it's impressive or not considering the latter managed to win three on the trot. Winning 5 CL titles is clearly a remarkable achievement but he's done it at the two clubs which have won the most CL titles. SAF won Aberdeen their only European trophies ever in their history and 2/3 of the CL titles United have.

No Aberdeen or United manager has even got near to achieving what SAF did at either club.

Bingo. I’m tired of people disrespecting the great man.

 

[Mcking]

He has an argument against Mourinho, but against Pep and Ferguson, no chance. He would need to manage at this level much longer to get ahead of Ferguson, and Pep already achieved more in about a decade less. Having said that, I'd probably still have Mourinho ahead of him. A UCL with Porto, and a treble with Inter is unreal.

 

[Hammondo]

You can point to records that SAF has that neither Pep nor Ancelotti do either. You could also compare Ancelotti CL record to Zidane and argue if it's impressive or not considering the latter managed to win three on the trot. Winning 5 CL titles is clearly a remarkable achievement but he's done it at the two clubs which have won the most CL titles. SAF won Aberdeen their only European trophies ever in their history and 2/3 of the CL titles United have.

No Aberdeen or United manager has even got near to achieving what SAF did at either club.

It's only recently that the allegedly doped up City has helped Pep creep closer to his trophy haul and he's still around 10+ off it.

Well if we are talking about the top 2 titles, league and cl, then he's equalled SAF already, 15 each.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Klopp is a top manager. He managed to bring the league title to Liverpool after 30 years and went toe to toe against FC115.

Alright they (Liverpool) may have been caffeine doping, but city were financially doping.

If the argument is about the most trophies accumulated then Mourinho is way ahead of klopp and Ferguson is way ahead of everyone else.

Agree style is a completely different argument. Guardiola too bielsa football and made it successful at the highest level. Probably not seen anything in terms of tactical revolution since legendary Sacchi Milan of late 80s.

Sacchi's ideas didn't come out of nowhere either. He brought in his take on trends from Ajax, Dynamo Kyiv and other aggressive pressing and heavily "control space off the ball zonally rather than man to man" teams into Italian football

 

[heraklion]

You can point to records that SAF has that neither Pep nor Ancelotti do either. You could also compare Ancelotti CL record to Zidane and argue if it's impressive or not considering the latter managed to win three on the trot. Winning 5 CL titles is clearly a remarkable achievement but he's done it at the two clubs which have won the most CL titles.

SAF's records are only in the PL when it was not even the best league in Europe, and that's it. His UCL track record is very underwhelming despite his resources getting eliminated by Basel, Galatasaray, Goteborg, Benfica, Lille type of teams.. regularly getting eliminated before seeing the semis in the UCL. Faced Real 3 times in the UCL, lost all 3 times..

SAF won Aberdeen their only European trophies ever in their history and 2/3 of the CL titles United have.
No Aberdeen or United manager has even got near to achieving what SAF did at either club.

This Aberdeen story is so overrated.

Teams like Dinamo Tbilisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard Liege, Rapid Wien, Fortuna Dusseldorf, Austria Wien, Goteborg, Dundee United, Videoton etc. were playing finals during that period.

Dundee from Scotland eliminated Barca, the finalist of the previous UCL, in the semis to play the final in 1987. Red Star and Steaua won the UCL. In fact Steaua played 2 UCL finals in 3 years. More impressive than anything SAF did in Europe if you are that much into that period.

It's only recently that the allegedly doped up City has helped Pep creep closer to his trophy haul and he's still around 10+ off it.

Number of years Pep has been managing: 16 years
Number of years SAF managed: 40 years

Probably, in 4 years, Pep will have more trophies despite managing half the time. He already has more UCL titles and 12 league titles.
More important thing for me is nobody comes close to Pep's teams in terms of domination on the field even when they lose.

 

[SilentWitness]

SAF's records are only in the PL when it was not even the best league in Europe, and that's it. His UCL track record is very underwhelming despite his resources getting eliminated by Basel, Galatasaray, Goteborg, Benfica, Lille type of teams.. regularly getting eliminated before seeing the semis in the UCL. Faced Real 3 times in the UCL, lost all 3 times..



This Aberdeen story is so overrated.

Teams like Dinamo Tbilisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard Liege, Rapid Wien, Fortuna Dusseldorf, Austria Wien, Goteborg, Dundee United, Videoton etc. were playing finals during that period.

Dundee from Scotland eliminated Barca, the finalist of the previous UCL, in the semis to play the final in 1987. Red Star and Steaua won the UCL. In fact Steaua played 2 UCL finals in 3 years. More impressive than anything SAF did in Europe if you are that much into that period.



Number of years Pep has been managing: 16 years
Number of years SAF managed: 40 years

Probably, in 4 years, Pep will have more trophies despite managing half the time. He already has more UCL titles and 12 league titles.
More important thing for me is SAF's teams don't even come close to Pep's teams in terms of domination on the field even when they lose.

I can't take Pep serious when a bunch of his trophies come from a side which has strong allegations of financial doping and his other side (Barca) also has allegations of another sort. Half of his achievements mean zilch as they come with City where there's a strong chance they get asterisked to feck so that's minus a few league titles and a CL. Bye bye.

It's not overrated at all. Three of the four league titles Aberdeen have won come under SAF, all of their european trophies were won by SAF. He's done with Aberdeen what nobody else has done with that club. Same with United.

 

[Amar__]

If Pep stayed at Barcelona all his life and just kept winning La Ligas and one more CL then he would have the same career as SAF except for what he achieved for Abredeen.

Yeah, football is so simple. I wonder why he didn't stay there and won the next 10 champions league titles?

 

[united_99]

Well if we are talking about the top 2 titles, league and cl, then he's equalled SAF already, 15 each.

Have SAF‘s league titles with Aberdeen been cancelled?

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

SAF's records are only in the PL when it was not even the best league in Europe, and that's it. His UCL track record is very underwhelming despite his resources getting eliminated by Basel, Galatasaray, Goteborg, Benfica, Lille type of teams.. regularly getting eliminated before seeing the semis in the UCL. Faced Real 3 times in the UCL, lost all 3 times..



This Aberdeen story is so overrated.

Teams like Dinamo Tbilisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard Liege, Rapid Wien, Fortuna Dusseldorf, Austria Wien, Goteborg, Dundee United, Videoton etc. were playing finals during that period.

Dundee from Scotland eliminated Barca, the finalist of the previous UCL, in the semis to play the final in 1987. Red Star and Steaua won the UCL. In fact Steaua played 2 UCL finals in 3 years. More impressive than anything SAF did in Europe if you are that much into that period.



Number of years Pep has been managing: 16 years
Number of years SAF managed: 40 years

Probably, in 4 years, Pep will have more trophies despite managing half the time. He already has more UCL titles and 12 league titles.
More important thing for me is nobody comes close to Pep's teams in terms of domination on the field even when they lose.

It wasn't yet a near-impossible thing to get to a semi-final/final with relatively smaller teams back then, but tbf Aberdeen are still among the smallest of those clubs. Red Star (the biggest club in Yugoslavia) and Steaua (one of the big two in Romania with Dynamo), those are teams that were expected to compete for their league almost every season and would often be stronger/equal to Celtic and Rangers from 50s-80s. It's the league side that is most unusual with Aberdeen...Celtic/Rangers dominated in the post-ww2 decades and winning multiple league titles against them puts you in a very small club...from a quick bit of research it seems the only other managers to do so were Hugh Shaw with Hibs (47/48, 50/51, 51/52) and Tommy Walker with Hearts (57-58, 59-60); Ferguson is the last, and won three, breaking two decades of dominance. To then win in Europe with that team isn't something to be dismissed...personally what i'd be more inclined to call overrated and not very interesting is winning leagues with huge, obscenely wealthy super-clubs in an era where competitiveness is more consolidated than ever and managers have more of a support network than ever before.

The european win for Aberdeen is only overrated if someone's making it out to be unique and is mostly mentioned because Ferguson had then went on to do great things with a big club as it shows he could compete in varied circumstances. If you want to be argued to be the greatest ever (though i don't believe in that for any one manager) it's best to tick as many boxes as possible.

 

[Hammondo]

Have SAF‘s league titles with Aberdeen been cancelled?

I dunno, I googled his league titles and it says he has 13.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I dunno, I googled his league titles and it says he has 13.

13 league titles at United, he won 3 leagues with Aberdeen before coming here.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Pretty confident Fergie wins a few Champions Leagues at Madrid/Barca.

 

[Red the Bear]

It wasn't yet a near-impossible thing to get to a semi-final/final with relatively smaller teams back then, but tbf Aberdeen are still among the smallest of those clubs. Red Star (the biggest club in Yugoslavia) and Steaua (one of the big two in Romania with Dynamo), those are teams that were expected to compete for their league almost every season and would often be stronger/equal to Celtic and Rangers from 50s-80s. It's the league side that is most unusual with Aberdeen...Celtic/Rangers dominated in the post-ww2 decades and winning multiple league titles against them puts you in a very small club...from a quick bit of research it seems the only other managers to do so were Hugh Shaw with Hibs (47/48, 50/51, 51/52) and Tommy Walker with Hearts (57-58, 59-60); Ferguson is the last, and won three, breaking two decades of dominance. To then win in Europe with that team isn't something to be dismissed...personally what i'd be more inclined to call overrated and not very interesting is winning leagues with huge, obscenely wealthy super-clubs in an era where competitiveness is more consolidated than ever and managers have more of a support network than ever before.

The european win for Aberdeen is only overrated if someone's making it out to be unique and is mostly mentioned because Ferguson had then went on to do great things with a big club as it shows he could compete in varied circumstances. If you want to be argued to be the greatest ever (though i don't believe in that for any one manager) it's best to tick as many boxes as possible.

His last season with Aberdeen in the European cup was pretty decent too, with a bit of luck could have even reached the final.

 

[Gio]

SAF's records are only in the PL when it was not even the best league in Europe, and that's it. His UCL track record is very underwhelming despite his resources getting eliminated by Basel, Galatasaray, Goteborg, Benfica, Lille type of teams.. regularly getting eliminated before seeing the semis in the UCL. Faced Real 3 times in the UCL, lost all 3 times..



This Aberdeen story is so overrated.

Teams like Dinamo Tbilisi, Carl Zeiss Jena, Standard Liege, Rapid Wien, Fortuna Dusseldorf, Austria Wien, Goteborg, Dundee United, Videoton etc. were playing finals during that period.

Dundee from Scotland eliminated Barca, the finalist of the previous UCL, in the semis to play the final in 1987. Red Star and Steaua won the UCL. In fact Steaua played 2 UCL finals in 3 years. More impressive than anything SAF did in Europe if you are that much into that period.



Number of years Pep has been managing: 16 years
Number of years SAF managed: 40 years

Probably, in 4 years, Pep will have more trophies despite managing half the time. He already has more UCL titles and 12 league titles.
More important thing for me is nobody comes close to Pep's teams in terms of domination on the field even when they lose.

It’s not that the Aberdeen story is unique, it’s Fergie’s combination of big club success and small club over-achievement is rare and sets him apart from most other contenders. For example Jim McLean at Dundee United was a hell of a manager and, in many ways, was cut from the same cloth as Ferguson. Both were dominating, demanding firebrands who overpowered the Old Firm and took big clubs to the cleaners in Europe. While McLean decided to stay at United and his legacy ultimately remained more local, Ferguson flew his wings and built a dynasty in another country.

What Ferguson achieved at Aberdeen shouldn’t just be tagged on as a footnote to what he did at United. The Old Firm have won 109 Scottish league titles. Aberdeen are next with 4. And 3 of which were won under Ferguson in just 5 seasons. Since he left Scotland in 1986, the Old Firm have won every single title - 39 on the bounce. The mark he made in Europe as well was considerable. I have little doubt that Aberdeen were the best team on the continent in 1983, beating Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and defeating European Cup and Bundesliga champions Hamburg in the Super Cup. And he remains the last manager to beat Real Madrid in a European final, despite a dozen failed attempts ever since.

 

[Hammondo]

13 league titles at United, he won 3 leagues with Aberdeen before coming here.

Well then hes not far off. Pep will win a lot more by the end.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Well then hes not far off. Pep will win a lot more by the end.

The difference being all of Sir Alex’s titles have been legitimately won.

 

[SilentWitness]

Well then hes not far off. Pep will win a lot more by the end.

Sure, with half of them at a side with serious allegations of financial doping.

 

[giorno]

Sure, with half of them at a side with serious allegations of financial doping.

Ah yes. Financial doping...

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Sure, with half of them at a side with serious allegations of financial doping.

For the most part this stuff ends up not really mattering all that much in the long run. Across sport, GOAT discussions and lists are full of people who cheated or were seriously alleged to have cheated (and some like GOAT-contender NBA coach Red Auerbach openly endorsing it) and, over time, people and experts mostly remember the performances and achievements. For some of these figures, it's clear that they cheated, yet they are still included in lists and no one is removing achievements in this manner to qualify their greatness. Carl Lewis, Barry Bonds, Tom Brady/Bill Belichick, Maradona, Jon Jones/Anderson Silva. If you search greatest XYZ for whatever these people participated in they are all there in the lists. This stuff does come up (particularly for Bonds and JBJ), but a lot of the time it is just a footnote and it does not stop their inclusion. In the end, if you reach a certain level, the memory of what people lived and experienced with their own eyes typically endures as the mark of greatness. Even for Carlo himself, you rarely hear mention of the questionable circumstances at some of his clubs when people rattle off his achievements.

I've always found it weird that even from SAF champions, I have seen references to John Wooden, the American college basketball coach, being some type of benchmark and the only coach in all of sports history who can rival SAF's legacy of greatness. I don't think I have ever seen such opinions qualified by the fact that Wooden was a massive cheat; they just mention that he won a great deal and had some nice-sounding motivational quotes. Around the time SAF retired you would see frequent references to John Wooden in near-hagiographic terms, when he was probably a worse cheater than anything Pep is accused of.

Maybe if City are found guilty it will be different for Pep, but I'm doubtful.

 

[Revan]

I have him comfortably in top 5 of all time and next to Pep, the best current manager. Has won 5 UCLs (the next best are Pep and Zidane at 3 each) and has won all top 5 leagues (the next best are Mourinho and Pep at 3).

I would still put Pep and SAF slightly higher though.

 

[Red the Bear]

I have him comfortably in top 5 of all time and next to Pep, the best current manager. Has won 5 UCLs (the next best are Pep and Zidane at 3 each) and has won all top 5 leagues (the next best are Mourinho and Pep at 3).

I would still put Pep and SAF slightly higher though.

Mou has 4 if you count Portugal .

 

[erikcred]

Take any game of football and make the players unrecognizable. You immediately recognize a Guardiola team or a Klopp team because of the level of organization and automatisms. I don't think you would recognize an Ancelotti team.

Of course you can recognize an Ancelotti team. They're the ones holding the European Cup.

 

[SilentWitness]

For the most part this stuff ends up not really mattering all that much in the long run. Across sport, GOAT discussions and lists are full of people who cheated or were seriously alleged to have cheated (and some like GOAT-contender NBA coach Red Auerbach openly endorsing it) and, over time, people and experts mostly remember the performances and achievements. For some of these figures, it's clear that they cheated, yet they are still included in lists and no one is removing achievements in this manner to qualify their greatness. Carl Lewis, Barry Bonds, Tom Brady/Bill Belichick, Maradona, Jon Jones/Anderson Silva. If you search greatest XYZ for whatever these people participated in they are all there in the lists. This stuff does come up (particularly for Bonds and JBJ), but a lot of the time it is just a footnote and it does not stop their inclusion. In the end, if you reach a certain level, the memory of what people lived and experienced with their own eyes typically endures as the mark of greatness. Even for Carlo himself, you rarely hear mention of the questionable circumstances at some of his clubs when people rattle off his achievements.

I've always found it weird that even from SAF champions, I have seen references to John Wooden, the American college basketball coach, being some type of benchmark and the only coach in all of sports history who can rival SAF's legacy of greatness. I don't think I have ever seen such opinions qualified by the fact that Wooden was a massive cheat; they just mention that he won a great deal and had some nice-sounding motivational quotes. Around the time SAF retired you would see frequent references to John Wooden in near-hagiographic terms, when he was probably a worse cheater than anything Pep is accused of.

Maybe if City are found guilty it will be different for Pep, but I'm doubtful.

I think it does taint a lot of legacies. Jon Jones for example is a really shit human aside from the PED stuff and fans don't forget that or sweep it. This City case is going to be a landmark case in the history of the sport and won't be swept under the carpet as simply as a case of one or two missed drug tests or one or two games of cheating, it's a Lance Armstrong level of sustained doping (and I think in his example it surely did matter in terms of GOAT legacy). Anyway, this is off topic from Ancelotti who this thread is about. I still think he's behind SAF who's number one for me by a decent margin still. I think if Ancelotti manages to squeeze in a few more league titles and another CL though somewhere along the way he'd definitely narrow that margin significantly.

 

[LA BOMBA]

He has an argument against Mourinho, but against Pep and Ferguson, no chance. He would need to manage at this level much longer to get ahead of Ferguson, and Pep already achieved more in about a decade less. Having said that, I'd probably still have Mourinho ahead of him. A UCL with Porto, and a treble with Inter is unreal.

I don't agree that Ancelotti is above Pep and Ferguson, but he has but he has been managing at elite level longer than almost anybody.

Since he got a Parma job in 1996 (when they were still an elite tier club with massive financial backing and unreal squad, winning European trophies), he held nothing but elite-tier managerial jobs with the only exception being his 2018-2021 stints at Napoli and Everton.

From 1999 to 2017 he managed Juventus, Milan, Chelsea, PSG, Real Madrid and Bayern consecutively. That's 18 years of nothing but the most prestigious marquee elite tier managerial jobs in Europe, in clubs with the biggest expectations and biggest pressure. If you add his current 3 year long stint at Real Madrid and the Parma years, that's 23 years managing the best teams in Europe and challenging for domestic and European trophies. The only manager with longer longevity at this tier that I can think of is Sir Alex Ferguson with his 27 years at United. But Ancelotti could reach this as well if he sticks around for 4 more seasons.

The problem with Ancelotti is that he has been underrated for some time. It's only recently that he developed this reputation as a consensus all-time great. In Italy he used to be seen as a bit of a bottler as he bottled the title with Juventus in two consecutive season in 2000 and 2001. This reputation stuck with him even in Milan where, despited winning 2 CLs, he also had some epic bottle jobs like 2004 remontada by Deportivo (who beat Milan 4-0 in CL quarter finals after losing the first game 4-1) and the 2005 bottling of the final. He also only won 1 league title at Milan, and finished far off in most seasons. The CL titles that he won in Milan were mostly attributed to players and Ancelotti's impact was underrated. It was only after his CL wins in Real Madrid that he became this highly rated, especially in his second Real Madrid stint.

 

[RedRocket08]

He's got to be above Pep for me (thought so before this champions league campaign too), especially considering their head to head records (Discounting Everton v City games of course, given the disparity in spending/quality between Everton and City):

Played 8, Drew 3, Ancelotti won 3, Guardiola won 2 - two of those 3 draws were in this most recent campaign, which Madrid eventually won on pens, so you could say Carlo has a bit of an edge there as well.

Every single campaign that these two faced off against each other, the eventual winner of this fixture went on to win the champions league: Ancelotti won in 2014, 2022, 2024 while Pep won in 2023, so Ancelotti does lead 3:1 in terms of going on to win it after facing each other head to head as well.

Pep may overtake Ancelotti when he retires (in terms of total CLs, he's already ahead in terms of leagues), and this head to head record between them may flip over the next few years depending on which teams they manage - But up until the present moment, Carlo has regularly got the better of Pep imo, and rightfully should be ranked higher.

 

[kaiser1]

He's got to be above Pep for me (thought so before this champions league campaign too), especially considering their head to head records (Discounting Everton v City games of course, given the disparity in spending/quality between Everton and City):

Played 8, Drew 3, Ancelotti won 3, Guardiola won 2 - two of those 3 draws were in this most recent campaign, which Madrid eventually won on pens, so you could say Carlo has a bit of an edge there as well.

Every single campaign that these two faced off against each other, the eventual winner of this fixture went on to win the champions league: Ancelotti won in 2014, 2022, 2024 while Pep won in 2023, so Ancelotti does lead 3:1 in terms of going on to win it after facing each other head to head as well.

Pep may overtake Ancelotti when he retires (in terms of total CLs, he's already ahead in terms of leagues), and this head to head record between them may flip over the next few years depending on which teams they manage - But up until the present moment, Carlo has regularly got the better of Pep imo, and rightfully should be ranked higher.

If Ancelotti should be ranked higher than Pep based 3 wins to 2 head to head and 3 to 1 progression in knockouts

When we use this exact Metric with Pep vs Ferguson
2-0 head to head, 2-0 progression. In 2 CL finals both one sided matches which Ferguson admitted was his worst game ever

Can we draw the same conclusions?

 

[heraklion]

If Ancelotti should be ranked higher than Pep based 3 wins to 2 head to head and 3 to 1 progression in knockouts

When we use this exact Metric with Pep vs Ferguson
2-0 head to head, 2-0 progression. In 2 CL finals both one sided matches which Ferguson admitted was his worst game ever

Can we draw the same conclusions?

No, because of "Aberdeen".

Pep, Cappello, Cruyff, Ancelotti (after 1 year working with Reggiana) etc. all started working for top clubs, which was a huge mistake for their legacy. They should have rejected Ajax, Barca, Milan, Parma etc.

Instead, Pep should have begun at Getafe, Cruyff at Groningen, Cappello at Salernitana, and (Ancelotti should have stayed with Reggiana for 8 years rather than 1) and spend at least 8 years there and move to an underperforming legacy club and spend another 8 years to win their first title.

It doesn't matter whether Pep got his first offer from Barca, Cappello from AC Milan, Cruyff from Ajax/Barca etc. (unlike SAF who got zero such offers for many years), they should have rejected and followed the steps of SAF.

That's the only way to become the greatest manager of all time, being invisible to top clubs for almost 15-20 years and staying at each club for at least 8 years no matter whether it's a top-club or not, and then regularly underperforming in the UCL.

Ancelotti, Pep can win another 3 UCLs, 10 league titles, 20 cup titles, doesn't matter, none of that matches "Aberdeen" trophy..

 

[kaiser1]

No, because of "Aberdeen".

How much does the Leicester title count towards the greatness of Ranieri as the GOAT? I know the answer Aberdeen

 

[SilentWitness]

No, because of "Aberdeen".

Pep, Cappello, Cruyff, Ancelotti (after 1 year working with Reggiana) etc. all started working for top clubs, which was a huge mistake for their legacy. They should have rejected Ajax, Barca, Milan, Parma etc.

Instead, Pep should have begun at Getafe, Cruyff at Groningen, Cappello at Salernitana, and (Ancelotti should have stayed with Reggiana for 8 years rather than 1) and spend at least 8 years there and move to an underperforming legacy club and spend another 8 years to win their first title.

It doesn't matter whether Pep got his first offer from Barca, Cappello from AC Milan, Cruyff from Ajax/Barca etc. (unlike SAF who got zero such offers for many years), they should have rejected and followed the steps of SAF.

That's the only way to become the greatest manager of all time, being invisible to top clubs for almost 15-20 years and staying at each club for at least 8 years no matter whether it's a top-club or not, and then regularly underperforming in the UCL.

Ancelotti, Pep can win another 3 UCLs, 10 league titles, 20 cup titles, doesn't matter, none of that matches "Aberdeen" trophy..

You sound really salty and appear to not understand the context of a club like Aberdeen compared to Milan, Madrid, Barcelona etc.