There are things that I can get over but I'm a bit worried that we're about to make a decision that I won't be able to stomach. It'll be a 100 times worse that the Suarez shirt moment, and we'll have to deal with that stain for a long time. I'm not surprised whatsoever that the Glazers don't want to throw away a potential 100m asset, but I can't lie, ETH went down on my estimation a lot as a person. I don't know how will that impact how I feel about the club, but it's kinda sad.
What's the point? Warning: Post contains a long ramble
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I dont know how people can stick by United's reason here and feel confident that they've made the right choice, which unfortunately seems quite evident in which way they're heading.
We're talking about, arguably, the most incompetent managed top club in world football here.
We're talking about, arguably, the most incompetent managed top club in world football here.
The you know who news after the poor performance pretty much killed any positivity I had few days ago. I was buzzing.
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The way this club has been handled over the years I think has reached a weird point especially since yesterday. I’ve absolutely fallen out of love a bit here. I have never felt such a disconnect from the club in as long as I can remember.
I can deal with Wolves being a sloppy performance thats just football sometimes but I never thought I would have such strong negative emotions about the management of the club that it would impact my desire to watch and enjoy the games.
Think a lot of us are at this point where the overall decisions being made at senior level are becoming too concerning to ignore.
I can deal with Wolves being a sloppy performance thats just football sometimes but I never thought I would have such strong negative emotions about the management of the club that it would impact my desire to watch and enjoy the games.
Think a lot of us are at this point where the overall decisions being made at senior level are becoming too concerning to ignore.
A former UWS/Red Issue writer once said something along the lines of: "anyone that knows anything about football knows that, for most of the time, football isn't really about football."
It took me a long time to figure out what that really meant. In the end I realised, it's not really just about football is it? I mean, we're all emotionally attached to the end result of 11 blokes kicking a ball around.
Football is about community. It's about the club and its players representing you (whether that be through locality, family ties or just sheer romance). The whole thing is absurd when you think about it but that's what makes it great.
I get a massive sense of pride when Rashford scores for us. He grew up on a housing estate similar to me and it's like he genuinely represents me. I got a massive sense of pride as well when I heard that when Evra signed for us and spent hours walking around the ground taking in the history. You don't have to be born here...
The negativity around the club can often be separate to what happens on the pitch. It's why I can justify not going to the ground and funding the Glazers but still supporting the team as, for the most part, the team still represents me.
If the two things I mention above happen, I will stop feeling like this is a club that I can actively support in the same way.
Maybe I'm old fashioned even though I'm only in my 30s. Who knows.
So she faked the bruises and the blood and released a recording of a consensual sex game. She told a pack of lies to the media and the police and publicly accused him of being a rapist and an abuser destroying his career and making his life a living hell.
And he was cool with this and got back together with her.
Seems plausible.
There are quite a lot of us that feel exactly the same about this.
Ten Hag and the people making the decisions around Greenwood do not define the club. It sucks, because I had a lot of faith in Ten Hag and thought he could succeed here, but managers, directors, owners, players all come and go. The club will endure, and the club should not be defined by whatever stupid decisions employees make during their time at the club.
The fans might not own the club in a literal sense, but we are the true owners, and the fans have been very clear on where they stand on the Greenwood issue.
Whatever happens with Greenwood, one day all the people who made the decisions around him will be gone but the club and it's much bigger history will still be there.
The HMPartey.
Well said, however, it won't be easy cheering for a manager and a group of players that were pro that decision.
Yeah I've said similar in the Greenwood thread in General. It won't stop me supporting the club, but I'll be hard pressed to really care about the current group.
They could both be abusers and victims and co-dependant on each other for all you know. I would’ve thought the Depp v Heard trial was ample evidence that abusive relationships can be complex and the abuse can travel in both directions, never mind the faking of cuts and bruises for “evidence” posted on social media.
Things are rarely black and white, and very often not as they appear at face value.
Hahaha great post! Completely sums up my thoughts too.
Great post.
Those latest revelations about women's charities being labelled hostile...
If that's in any way true, that's proper grim isn't it? I mean, is this what the club represents now?
If that's in any way true, that's proper grim isn't it? I mean, is this what the club represents now?
been a fan since 1990. Sport is always about winning. they play matches to literally compete and win games. they are not playing friendly matches
Watched a video earlier this week, people may have seen it, where Gordon Strachan said ‘football clubs don’t have morals’. It appears he was bang on the money. Ultimately the only way this could conceivably work is for MG to be interviewed, not wrapped in cotton wool like the club are intending to do.
But yeah, pretty grim week.
But yeah, pretty grim week.
It's absolutely fecking disgusting, and why I'm now calling for Arnold to feck off too.
Of course it's about winning. But at what cost? Selling the club's soul for a vague increased chance of success. Why?
Yep. Same.
I guess most of us who posted in this thread would be categorized as "hostile" by the club right now. This is the worst timeline.
I would have to reconsider supporting a club that is owned by people who treat women as chattels.
I wonder if there will be a reversal regarding MG. It’s being spelt out it will be up to Richard Arnold whose biggest selling point is nothing is his fault. Is he really suddenly going to have some guts to make and own this decision.
If MG comes back when the shit hits the fan everyone who can will disown and distance themselves from this. All these stakeholders supposedly consulted will make sure they aren’t to blame.
He shouldn’t come back, there is enough information to say we don’t want you, have a fresh start elsewhere, if he has to be paid off then pay it. We piss enough money away on other things left, right and centre.
Anyone thinking he will come back the same player is in a dream world, there will be all this upheaval for someone who will cause way more damage and provide little in return. I also can’t see him staying out of trouble and it’s just another example of the woeful leadership at the club and their complete disregard for the club and fans.
If MG comes back when the shit hits the fan everyone who can will disown and distance themselves from this. All these stakeholders supposedly consulted will make sure they aren’t to blame.
He shouldn’t come back, there is enough information to say we don’t want you, have a fresh start elsewhere, if he has to be paid off then pay it. We piss enough money away on other things left, right and centre.
Anyone thinking he will come back the same player is in a dream world, there will be all this upheaval for someone who will cause way more damage and provide little in return. I also can’t see him staying out of trouble and it’s just another example of the woeful leadership at the club and their complete disregard for the club and fans.
As we are in the process of signing him up for a season, I think it might be worth some posters reminding themselves that a certain young player today isn't the first young player to face similar troubles and the club and it's fans were quite happy to welcome this player back (though he was moved out at the time to Sunderland).
While not exactly the same, the accusations were equally, if not more serious though you could say today's young player has been subjected to a more in depth investigation. Ultimately the outcomes of both were that neither faced prosecution. There wasn't a realistic chance of prosecution in either case.
Of course the video aspect is what some people use to differentiate the two which is fine and fair, I'm not even trying to equate the two, rather highlight this isn't the first time we have been in this situation but it's the first time the reaction has been as such.
I do wonder if the events in 2007 played out today, how we would react. Possibly the same as they have with the player in question today as attitudes have certainly changed but who knows. Similarly would today's events have gone down differently in 2008?
It could also be a simple case of the club being in a much better place in footballing terms. Arguably the best team in the world, winning everything in sight.
I hope nobody takes this in anyway as me suggesting we've found a way to forgive before so should now because I respect everyone's personal views on the matter completely.
While not exactly the same, the accusations were equally, if not more serious though you could say today's young player has been subjected to a more in depth investigation. Ultimately the outcomes of both were that neither faced prosecution. There wasn't a realistic chance of prosecution in either case.
Of course the video aspect is what some people use to differentiate the two which is fine and fair, I'm not even trying to equate the two, rather highlight this isn't the first time we have been in this situation but it's the first time the reaction has been as such.
I do wonder if the events in 2007 played out today, how we would react. Possibly the same as they have with the player in question today as attitudes have certainly changed but who knows. Similarly would today's events have gone down differently in 2008?
It could also be a simple case of the club being in a much better place in footballing terms. Arguably the best team in the world, winning everything in sight.
I hope nobody takes this in anyway as me suggesting we've found a way to forgive before so should now because I respect everyone's personal views on the matter completely.
Sponsors and shareholders will be consulted. If there's a chance of the club losing money from that source, he'll be gone. If they don't care either way, he'll be back. I must say though that the person's PR team have been working like beavers to paint him in a favourable light. If he does come back, they will have earned every penny of their fee. As for the fans? When do we get consulted on anything?
Adidas have already washed their hands of any decision and that’s before the backlash. All the others will follow suit and all the burden will fall with the club. No one else will own it.
Opinion of fans isn’t relevant in any way on any issue to the Glazers, only time it did matter was when Liverpool game was cancelled.
If the club is already at the end of a lengthy investigation, then one would hope they’ve already been consulted, and whatever the evidence was that isn’t in the public domain is compelling enough that the sponsors and stakeholders are on board.
It would be suicide, not just for Arnold but the club as a whole were that not the case. The people involved may be many things, but they’re not idiots.
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The real PR winners here are the Police, Crown Prosecution Service and UK Criminal Justice System as a whole for failing to prosecute a crime that was digitally recorded and widely distributed, yet somehow managing to quietly slip off the stage while everyone blames a football club that is legally prohibited from punishing the accused. United literally have to either continue to pay him his contract as normal and provide training or come to some buyout agreement (i.e. pay him off) or they'd be breaking labour laws.
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I’m feeling a bit embarrassed going to the pub tomorrow to watch and support the team. The latest Antony news isn’t helping.
It's possible that the video and audio evidence would have been inadmissible of course due to it being widely circulated online and there potentially preventing a fair trial.
As fans we are in a difficult situation where we have some information but not all the facts and have to work with that to make up our own minds. Those that do have the facts have come to a conclusion and I think it's fair to say they haven't done so lightly. The high profile nature of this case and the public interest demanded so.
On top of this, the club has conducted its own investigation and I would be surprised if "beyond reasonable doubt" applies. The club can apply the same thought process that fans have and take the video and audio as enough. They could sack him simply based on that and have no consequences. They may of course decide this is the way to go and we will no doubt find out shortly.
I'm worried I may be pushing a little to close to the line here though I have tried to avoid any direct references to the people involved, so if that's the case and the mods say so, I'll leave it at that.
I started supporting United in 1996. Turns out it wasnt United I support. It's Fergie's United. Since he was gone it's never the same.
Qatar, stoneworker, we have no bottomline anymore anything goes for the sake of glory, and I'm used to be called glory hunter.
I just follow United these days and reads the caf. I find it hard to cheer players like Martial, Maguire and many more over the course of 10 years post Fergie. For me they're nothing like the United player i supported back then.
Qatar, stoneworker, we have no bottomline anymore anything goes for the sake of glory, and I'm used to be called glory hunter.
I just follow United these days and reads the caf. I find it hard to cheer players like Martial, Maguire and many more over the course of 10 years post Fergie. For me they're nothing like the United player i supported back then.
The club has already stated that their investigation included evidence not available to the public. It’s only us fans that have very little in the way of facts to actually base opinions on, not that that seems to matter in the social media age of kangaroo courts and trial-by-media.
Maguire and Martial should not be used in this debate. Both are perhaps symbols of our on the pitch decline and whilst, they've had their issues off their pitch, it's a world away from "MG11" and the club being a state sponsored sport washing exercise.
The sad thing about the Mason Greenwood situation is that if he was 35 or not good enough the club would take the moral high ground and release him. Sadly, it all comes down to money. From the club’s point of view, he’s too valuable an asset to release.
There have been a lot of damning articles written about it over the past week and none of them seem to factor in the victim in all of this. If the media get their way and he is released, what does he do? He is too talented to not have a career. He ends up in Turkey or Saudi where the rights of women do not exist as they do in the UK. If/when there is another incident the victim has nowhere to turn. If she is married to him, she’s effectively his property in some of these countries. Authorities won’t care.
While I am not happy about it at least if he stays at United the spotlight will be forever on him. If the victim turned up in A&E or an ambulance is called to the house after a serious incident nobody is going to cover him. Same goes for her friends/family seeing her with bruises.
He nearly lost his career; the victim now holds his career in her hands which while not ideal, at least it gives her some power.
There have been a lot of damning articles written about it over the past week and none of them seem to factor in the victim in all of this. If the media get their way and he is released, what does he do? He is too talented to not have a career. He ends up in Turkey or Saudi where the rights of women do not exist as they do in the UK. If/when there is another incident the victim has nowhere to turn. If she is married to him, she’s effectively his property in some of these countries. Authorities won’t care.
While I am not happy about it at least if he stays at United the spotlight will be forever on him. If the victim turned up in A&E or an ambulance is called to the house after a serious incident nobody is going to cover him. Same goes for her friends/family seeing her with bruises.
He nearly lost his career; the victim now holds his career in her hands which while not ideal, at least it gives her some power.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on the ETH comment regarding MG's proven scoring ability in one breath and then stating the final decison was not his in the next - lost all respect for him now. Feel my 50 years support for the club is in it's death throes.....
Very good point, this situation has nothing to do with second chances or the right thing to do, it's all about money.
I started supporting United in 1994. I had great affection and respect for that team. But despite the continuation of success, I never loved the Rooney/Tevez/Ronaldo trio close as much as the Cantona/Hughes of the late 90s, or Cole/Yorke and Sheringham/ Solskjaer combinations of the treble season. Way before the comeback of Ronaldo, I wrote, on another website, that my favourite player of United's history was Cantona. That is still the case.
In fact I like Fernandes, Rashford, Varane more than R/T/R. It has nothing to do with success. It has to do with how the players seem to behave on and off the pitch, or how that behaviour is filtered to me through what I see and read. E.g. I respected Lisandro Martinez almost instantly after he played 5 games for us.
And now I am dismayed about he who must not be named, and how he might creep back into the team. I cannot support United with him in the team. I remember the Evra versus Suarez situation. The current affair with number 11 is so pathetic. I will never watch a football match live with number 11 in the team, because I cannot cheer him on.
It could be about both. MG grew up with the club and has been part of the Utd family for most of his life. If your son screwed up like he did, would you banish your son from your home and family forever or give him a second chance?
Your analogy is not comparable. The people taking the final decision hardly know him, if at all.
You wouldn't be paying him 100k a week for the privilege.
You are entitled to a second chance. That doesn’t/shouldn't have to be at Manchester United.