What's the point? Warning: Post contains a long ramble

pocco said:
I completely get that and you are probably right. Sorry to hear that you have been affected by this stuff personally - I just think it is beyond a joke that people in your position are potentially being put in this position. I obviously haven't experienced anything like this personally, but even I am being pushed to my limits over it for a number of reasons. And I reckon many others too. Even just the famale supporters, staff, players must be in similar turmoil over it. Honestly it is one of the most stupid business decisions I've heard of if it goes ahead.
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It's no wonder that fans like me and you are agitated to a point where we are considering our options but I can also understand why people are reluctant to give up something they have enjoyed for such a long time due to decisions made by others.

I guess that I have a tendency to romanticize the club, viewing it as an institution that upholds higher values, perhaps because it has been a part of my life for so long, I want it to reflect the same values I hold? The harsh reality is that money talks.
 
Gordon S said:
Love Jomezpro channel!
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Yeah, i binged that channel when i got into it.
A girl i kind of know played on the lead card when all the pros were in Norway, then i paid for discgolf network to watch her play live. Worth it!
 
I’m an 80’s baby, so 92 was my first season of supporting United and grew up in the Premier League era - I’ve never had an issue with the money side of things with the league - even now when the sums quoted for transfers and wages are so obscene, because if the money exists in the game then I’d rather the lions share went to the players who actually entertain me each weekend rather than more going to the suits in the boardrooms up and down the country - especially when it it comes to United. I don’t need to say any more on that one. Football is a business, but it also has a moral and social responsibility - just like any big corporation.

And right now, this football club that I love, needs a giant moral compass reset.

I feel United in its current guise is a country mile away from the fabric and ethos of the club I’ve known growing up.
 
Grylte said:
Yeah, i binged that channel when i got into it.
A girl i kind of know played on the lead card when all the pros were in Norway, then i paid for discgolf network to watch her play live. Worth it!
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She on the lead card of Överås this year?
 
Oranges038 said:
I find it kind of funny that it's the fans who have the most power to stop all this shit. Everyone could do it by simply not buying crap like £100 jerseys, Sky subs, not going to games etc just don't give it any money or pay it any attention and instead go and spend time and money at your smaller local club.

But that will never happen, we're all just addicts who need our football fix and have been conditioned into thinking the PL is really the only drug worth taking.
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While I agree, I know at same time that if the revenue goes down due to protests etc., clubs would just move their matches abroad, to Qatar, Saudi, China. They would engage more in campaigns abroad, too.

Love for the working class game is long gone. Fans are customers now. Football is business and so is sport in general.
 
Gordon S said:
She on the lead card of Överås this year?
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Yeah, Ida Emilie Nesse, she's a local player that beat me once in a while
It could've been worse, i guess, atleast it's not boxing she beats me at…

:lol:
 
Redanian said:
You're conveniently forgetting there was also mention of new evidence (presumably exculpatory) when the CPS withdrew.

Are you suggesting that despite thorough investigation by the police/CPS and also the club, with access to all the evidence and witnesses, that somehow they have all got their conclusion wrong, and the baying internet mob with access to nothing but a short, untested audio clip and a photo of some cuts/bruises is right?
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We can’t discuss the specific case. I was just picking up on the “have all concluded nothing wrong has happened” statement. Deciding not to pursue a criminal charge against someone is not the same thing as concluding nothing has happened.
 
Might be a ramble, but I totally feel you @MancunianAngels. I said before that I fear United becoming another state backed club would be the final straw to break the camel's back for me, but probably not just for my fandom of Manchester United but for the sport in its entirety. Investors of any kind have ruined this sport and I don't feel there is a way to turn back time before this cancer spread to football.
 
I still love the game and watch it religiously but I grew out of caring too deeply about anything off field - no doubt a lot of the OPs concerns played a part but also my age and my family dynamics I think. It's purely entertainment to me now and that's enough tbh. I'll debate it in the pub and I have plenty of (mostly incorrect) opinions on it of course but they don't hold any greater meaning than my opinions on cheese, the spice girls or the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre

In many ways I wish I was more of an activist on the subject but honestly I don't have the energy - there are bigger fish in my life need frying
 
There was a thread after the Wolves match asking if the excitement was gone after the result and performance. For me, I'm with the OP and it's the background distractions and potentially horrific decisions being made that are tainting the season so far. There's just a powerless inevitability feeling to it all.
 
StamsShinyHead said:
There was a thread after the Wolves match asking if the excitement was gone after the result and performance. For me, I'm with the OP and it's the background distractions and potentially horrific decisions being made that are tainting the season so far. There's just a powerless inevitability feeling to it all.
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Yeah - couldn’t care less about performances on the field. There’s a general lack of morals around the club that is sickening.
 
Agent Red said:
Deciding not to pursue a criminal charge against someone is not the same thing as concluding nothing has happened.
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And now you’re conveniently forgetting that the club has also conducted a thorough investigation, and are clearly leaning towards bringing him back into the fold.

They do not have the same requirements as the legal process with regards burden of proof, so if they’ve seen evidence of wrongdoing do you not trust the club to make the right decision?

Is it not conceivable that the full picture might lend a different conclusion than the two isolated pieces of evidence the public had access to did?
 
This post has merit as a discussion but it has taken on a different tangent with conversations about a certain player we all know rightly not to discuss at the present time. There will be time for talk when a proper decision has been announced. Like everything else in life people have different experiences, morals, ideals and views - and its ok to air that stuff, hell, it's actually really healthy at times to air it, but there's a time and a place.

I don't like how this club is run
I don't like the way we go about our transfer business
I don't like the fact we can't sell players
I'm a regular at Old Trafford and I don't like the way it quite clearly hasn't been properly invested in
I don't like the fact our training facilities are reportedly not invested in
I don't like our owners and I don't like the way they've gone about things with the proposed sale of the club
I don't like the fact that we'll probably end up being owned by the Qatari state
I don't especially like some of our players
I don't like the way fans of other teams view us
I don't particularly like some of our own fans either

But all that said, I love the club, I have close ties with its history, great memories made with my Dad and Grandad attending games and talking and talking about United, and I grew up spitting distance from Old Trafford. Win or lose, I love this club with all my heart and its hard to think of anything that would ultimately completely disenfranchise me from loving this club.

People can make all the excuses they want, but support of a football team is a very special and unique thing - if something upsets you enough that you actually stop caring about the club enough to be a supporter, win or lose, rain or shine, then that's fine. That's up to you. But when we start winning trophies again don't come crawling back.
 
The way the club are manoeuvering over he-who-must-not-be-named disgusts me and the reaction from a vocal crowd on social media makes me question humanity. But I think we have to remind ourselves that "this too shall pass". My love for Man Utd shall never die. It may be dampened by the actions of cretins on and off the pitch, but they will one day receive their last pay cheque and feck off to suck blood elsewhere.

The leeches are temporary, United is eternal. We just need to be as vocal as we can in dissuading them from being amoral cnuts.
 
For me it's pretty simple:
1. The people able to afford the club and put in 6-7bln to buy it are handful in the world. The most important part is how they run it and if they run it successfully (be it Qatar or SJR) it isn't much of a issue. United is a global brand and club and it's victim of its own success. If you want to be able to compete you have to be up there with the big dogs and United's place is on top.
2. The decision to bring in you know who, however, I can't back up at any point.
 
There’s many things I hate about modern football as well. But I guess as I get older, I’m just not that emotional about it as I used to be. When it comes to the takeover, I don’t really see a correct choice, the whole process is smokes and mirrors between very sordid individuals or companies. So I guess I just let it be and see what happens.

When it comes to you know who. I believe it is in the clubs best interests to put the interests of the victim at the centre of any decision the club makes. By doing that, the club will find the right decision.
 
Wumminator said:
Yeah - couldn’t care less about performances on the field. There’s a general lack of morals around the club that is sickening.
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Exactly where I stand as well. I would support the club even if it got relegated to the Conference League, results would not make me less of a supporter. The values the club upholds will however.
 
Redanian said:
You're conveniently forgetting there was also mention of new evidence (presumably exculpatory) when the CPS withdrew.

Are you suggesting that despite thorough investigation by the police/CPS and also the club, with access to all the evidence and witnesses, that somehow they have all got their conclusion wrong, and the baying internet mob with access to nothing but a short, untested audio clip and a photo of some cuts/bruises is right?
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It's been gone over again and again how tough prosecuting rape cases can be, even without witnesses/victims withdrawing. What context would make the contents of that audio clip acceptable to you? And if there is exculpatory evidence, why aren't we heating about it from his people? You'd bet your life they'd be in full on PR assault mode if that was the case.
 
Redanian said:
And now you’re conveniently forgetting that the club has also conducted a thorough investigation, and are clearly leaning towards bringing him back into the fold.

They do not have the same requirements as the legal process with regards burden of proof, so if they’ve seen evidence of wrongdoing do you not trust the club to make the right decision?
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Why would you? Companies make wrong decisions all the time, especially regarding ethics when it impacts business. Random example - this club joined the super league project just a couple years ago. Was it the right decision?
 
Grylte said:
Yeah, Ida Emilie Nesse, she's a local player that beat me once in a while
It could've been worse, i guess, atleast it's not boxing she beats me at…

:lol:
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Haven´t seen the FPO for that yet, have to take a look now!
Holy crap, she´s only 15?
 
Pickle85 said:
What context would make the contents of that audio clip acceptable to you? And if there is exculpatory evidence, why aren't we heating about it from his people? You'd bet your life they'd be in full on PR assault mode if that was the case.
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Well for one, maybe they were acting out a pre-agreed fantasy scenario? The point is we don't know where or why that recording came about - technically we don't even know if it is genuine or not. As for your second question, maybe the new evidence was sensitive in nature or maybe the information will come out when the club makes its final statement on the matter? We just don't know.

antk said:
this club joined the super league project just a couple years ago. Was it the right decision?
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There is quite literally nothing comparable with that and the current subject, so why bring it up?

Anyway, I've said my bit, some of you have obviously jumped to a conclusion and are now tormenting yourselves over whether or not you can continue to support the club you love. Not only is that premature, but it might all be completely for nothing too. Why not reserve judgement? I'll say one more time, as I'm nearly out of posts - not a single one of us knows as much as the police/CPS, club or people involved do, so our conclusions are ill-informed and pointless.
 
Red_Aaron said:
I still love the game and watch it religiously but I grew out of caring too deeply about anything off field - no doubt a lot of the OPs concerns played a part but also my age and my family dynamics I think. It's purely entertainment to me now and that's enough tbh. I'll debate it in the pub and I have plenty of (mostly incorrect) opinions on it of course but they don't hold any greater meaning than my opinions on cheese, the spice girls or the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre

In many ways I wish I was more of an activist on the subject but honestly I don't have the energy - there are bigger fish in my life need frying
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Pretty much exactly where I’m at.
 
I might be the minority, but I don’t think about giant social or geopolitical issues when I sit down to watch the lads play…nor do I want to. I just want to watch a sport I love…see the best players in the world play it…and hope for a win. I love Man Utd and always will.

It’s not like the MG drama was absent from the world in our glory years…we just didn’t know about it. It was a different time. It was actually probably (almost certainly) more prevalent. Some players we hold to very high standards in our minds likely did horrible things in a time when those things were less bothersome and less tracked. That doesn’t make bad actions today forgivable, but it’s a totally different Era where team decisions on such matters are extremely complicated.

And as for the money in the game…the game is simply more global. It’s bigger. I live in the US and can watch a game live while also viewing real time stats and often a YouTube breakdown directly afterward. It’s not just our UK team in our UK league that goes up against the other leagues giants anymore. If it wasn’t for global big money investment in the PL we’d be a sad, low tier league. The bottom line is once you globalize, the standards and viewpoints of other countries you might not agree with are going to be inculcated into the fan base and team identity. It’s unavoidable.

Being upset about it is rather odd to me personally. I get not liking it...and appreciate everyone having a a valued point of view... to each their own. Far be it me to yuck a yum, as my kids say. But if that’s an issue then there are actually very real alternatives…support Northampton town or the like. I don't mean that aggressively or sarcastically. If you value national pride, non-globalized money, and a more nuanced sporting stage devoid of politics those teams will easily fit the bill.

This seems less an argument about our club and more an argument for some sort of segregationist dream era. Why do Saudi fans not get to get a piece of us? Or Russian fans? Or Chinese fans? Are they illegitimate fans? Do they not count? They have every right to be fans and even be owners. As do fans or potential owners from any area. You either stay a massive club and accept globalization…or as I said…find a nice National League team and feel good about yourself.

I have nothing against the argument…but I just find the problem a bit self inflicted.
 
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Denis79 said:
Exactly where I stand as well. I would support the club even if it got relegated to the Conference League, results would not make me less of a supporter. The values the club upholds will however.
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who do you mean when you say ‘club’ though? The fans or the board? What people seem to be talking about is largely societal and applies pretty consistently among fan and ownership groups, with certain variations.
 
Gordon S said:
Haven´t seen the FPO for that yet, have to take a look now!
Holy crap, she´s only 15?
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Yeah, imagine being 15 and playing with the current world champion, and playing just as well as her in the final.
It's like how it is for a 15 year old boy to play football with Messi or Ronaldo.
Oh and she was better than Catrina Allen in the 2nd round, a 2 times world champion.

we might be derailng the thread…. I did check if there was a DG thread on here, but it was very quiet.
 
gerdm07 said:
Why did you have to bring politics to the site? There are likely former Trump voters on this site and there are likely people on this site who are unsure of climate change. Yet you pretend to be the know all for what's best for the world. Keep politics off this site please.
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Trump is a charlatan and he would throw any voter/supporter of him under a bus if it saves his own skin. Why don't people realize this and why are you offended by that? Also it's 2023, people who still deny climate changes are just ignorant.
 
i only watch football now so i’ve got something to say at the water cooler at work, expertly shifting the topic of conversation from who’s shat all over the bathroom floor again.
 
rimaldo said:
i only watch football now so i’ve got something to say at the water cooler at work, expertly shifting the topic of conversation from who’s shat all over the bathroom floor again.
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If you stop doing it they’ll stop talking about it.
 
pogbasformerbarber said:
I might be the minority, but I don’t think about giant social or geopolitical issues when I sit down to watch the lads play…nor do I want to. I just want to watch a sport I love…see the best players in the world play it…and hope for a win. I love Man Utd and always will.

It’s not like the MG drama was absent from the world in our glory years…we just didn’t know about it. It was a different time. It was actually probably (almost certainly) more prevalent. Some players we hold to very high standards in our minds likely did horrible things in a time when those things were less bothersome and less tracked. That doesn’t make bad actions today forgivable, but it’s a totally different Era where team decisions on such matters are extremely complicated.

And as for the money in the game…the game is simply more global. It’s bigger. I live in the US and can watch a game live while also viewing real time stats and often a YouTube breakdown directly afterward. It’s not just our UK team in our UK league that goes up against the other leagues giants anymore. If it wasn’t for global big money investment in the PL we’d be a sad, low tier league. The bottom line is once you globalize, the standards and viewpoints of other countries you might not agree with are going to be inculcated into the fan base and team identity. It’s unavoidable.

Being upset about it is rather odd to me personally. I get not liking it...and appreciate everyone having a a valued point of view... to each their own. Far be it me to yuck a yum, as my kids say. But if that’s an issue then there are actually very real alternatives…support Northampton town or the like. I don't mean that aggressively or sarcastically. If you value national pride, non-globalized money, and a more nuanced sporting stage devoid of politics those teams will easily fit the bill.

This seems less an argument about our club and more an argument for some sort of segregationist dream era. Why do Saudi fans not get to get a piece of us? Or Russian fans? Or Chinese fans? Are they illegitimate fans? Do they not count? They have every right to be fans and even be owners. As do fans or potential owners from any area. You either stay a massive club and accept globalization…or as I said…find a nice National League team and feel good about yourself.

I have nothing against the argument…but I just find the problem a bit self inflicted.
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Completely on board with fans from all over the world supporting us. One of my favourite ever memories watching United involved getting blind drunk with Russian and Polish lads on their homemade vodka whilst watching us play Cluj in 2012.

My issue is with states taking over football clubs, my issue is that the options on the table for club ownership seem to be Glazers/Mike Ashley types or the Qatari/Saudi States. Why have the authorities allowed that to happen?
 
@MancunianAngels

pretty much summed up my current feelings too you aren’t alone in feeling this way. If that certain one does come back to the team then that’ll be the end for me the final nail in the coffin and feck all the people involved in that decision.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I actually came to post something similar in regards to MG. I think if he plays again I'll be done.
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Same.
And the cynic in me just realized that this is something probably been happening at United for quite a while since Ferguson days, but Fergie just cover it up better than now. Lack of social media helped alot in this regard.
IMO, Giggs and Butt (yeah he had a domestic abuse charge too) don't become abuser after they stopped playing. This is something that's already there, but just got exposed later because they're not players anymore.
If we accept that Fergie is a control freak who knows everything about his players, then he most likely know that he had abuser in his squad. This would explained Ole allegedly willingness to cover up for MG, because that's how he see Fergie deals with things like this.

edit: in the midst of all this, the fact that we have another active player also on ongoing investigation to domestic abuse seems to get buried and hardly in the news anymore
 
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MancunianAngels said:
Completely on board with fans from all over the world supporting us. One of my favourite ever memories watching United involved getting blind drunk with Russian and Polish lads on their homemade vodka whilst watching us play Cluj in 2012.

My issue is with states taking over football clubs, my issue is that the options on the table for club ownership seem to be Glazers/Mike Ashley types or the Qatari/Saudi States. Why have the authorities allowed that to happen?
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Again, Business around the world is conducted differently based on the region...and it's unclear how much the "state" is really involved in the transaction to begin with. These areas of the world have a closer connection between larger corporations and the state. But that doesn't mean that Saudi Arabia is going to control MU.

Many in the US are somewhat uncomfortable with how many European companies conduct business with various state involvement...but that doesn't mean a US company should simply refuse to do an attractive deal with company in such an area. Thats madness. This is globalization. This is what it looks like. I'm all for it.

Again, I get why some people are against it. And thats fine. But to wholesale reject the club over it, seems a little overly conservative IMHO. And I'm a fairly conservative thinker...
 
The last 2 summer windows have shown it’s no longer about competing with City, it’s now a challenge to stay in the champions league. Chelsea have just built a whole new squad in 12 months, who knows if it will pay off.
4 of the top 6 have spent £100m on one player and still spend on top of that.

The rest of the top 6 seem to have assets they can move on to balance net spend and control FFP, next summer we will still be trying to shift the same deadwood but for less money.
Another summer where players we spent a fortune on, leave for free, Martial and Bailly (who could leave on a free this summer) among the names.

It really is time for a change, we need more money, better control of wages and most importantly better scouting.
 
Personally, I am waiting to hear United's explanation for whatever decision they make on Greenwood.. It better be a very good one if they decide to bring him back, it can't just be the charges were dropped and he deserves a second change because after all the girl has forgiven him.

The CPS said that there was new material that came to light and that along with the witness no longer willing to testify caused them to drop all charges. United need to tell us what that new material is and why it was one of the reasons the charges were dropped.

To be honest here, The truth is whatever the decision on Greenwood is, whether Jassim, or Ratcliffe buy the club or the Glazers stay, I am not going to stop supporting United. I have supported United since 63-64 and will continue til the day I die.
 
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There’s been a grim atmosphere surrounding our club since that Wolves performance. There was a lot of positivity up until then but I feel like there’s been a culmination of so many negatives over the summer months that we were trying to stay positive about and the Wolves game was basically one too many.

Bad vibes FC at the moment. Club sale needs to get done asap.
 
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