Okay, EdgeLord.
What's the point? Warning: Post contains a long ramble
- Thread starter MancunianAngels
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Okay, EdgeLord.
Sorry to hear that bud. You’re spot on though, abuse of any kind is just wrong.
We don’t need a state backer to compete though. The problem we have is that the Glazer’s have set such a ridiculous price on the club that even super wealthy individuals have no interest, other than Ratcliffe. IF, we can eventually get an owner that can negotiate a realistic price for the club, and is prepared to put some of their own money in (unlike the Glazer’s) then we would be super competitive. Wipe out the debt is really all it needs. We generate vast sums of money that is more than enough to compete at the very top and still invest in the infrastructure.
It's just a toss pot of corrupt assholes. The City situation is beyond ridiculous really but everyone are acting like it's just fine.
Yeah. Very hard to stomach the whole thing.
Ive been going to my local teams games for the last few years. Football is shite but there’s something simpler and more community based about it which is a tonic from top level football nowadays.
I think it’s kind of catch 22. Firstly yeah I’m way less invested now than I was with football in the 80s 90s 00s. It’s almost killing itself. The fact that I’m less invested makes me more open to Qatar or MG, who is expecting his first child with the same girl and we don’t know the ins and outs of their relationship, than I was in the past.
In an ideal world football would be as it was in the 80s where it was about the manager and the players rather than the owners and in terms of players we’d have the likes of Robson only getting caught drink driving, Blackmore exposing himself and being accused of rape on tour or Keane being arrested for hitting a woman before a cup final.
In an ideal world football would be as it was in the 80s where it was about the manager and the players rather than the owners and in terms of players we’d have the likes of Robson only getting caught drink driving, Blackmore exposing himself and being accused of rape on tour or Keane being arrested for hitting a woman before a cup final.
The potential Qatar takeover is a big problem for me for reasons I have put forward many times. But it goes beyond United and is a problem for football as a whole and one that is sadly being welcomed with open arms.
The second issue alluded to is difficult one for all involved. A unique situation that isn't as black or white as some think. I don't hold all the facts, I don't have the answers. Those that do appear to have come to a consistent conclusion if reports are to believed. I think that in itself has to carry some weight.
However, the idea that all of this is new in football is simply untrue. Football has been a murky cesspit since day one. Pick a decade, pick a club, pick any hour of any day and something unpleasant was happening. All that's happened is things have scaled up as time moves on. No longer the dodgy local businessman and instead the dodgy global businessman. The questionable antics of the players is now broadcast around the world where previously it was kept under wraps. Just think how many players you have cheered and adored that have skeletons in their many closets. How many clubs still have dark secrets yet to be revealed to the world.
As fans we make peace with it because for those 90 minutes, we get taken on a ride that renders everything else in our lives irrelevant and we are hooked like addicts to a drug. Even if we walk away from it, we'll find ourselves stood on a terrace in the 9th division watching Dave from the pub slide tackle 4 people at once, or join our mates at the pub to watch Swindon v Doncaster on a Tuesday night surrounded by the unmistakable scent of stale piss. It is what is it. And we're not alone in sport. Look at cricket. Scandal after scandal but you know what, those weird weird people still follow it. Mental.
The second issue alluded to is difficult one for all involved. A unique situation that isn't as black or white as some think. I don't hold all the facts, I don't have the answers. Those that do appear to have come to a consistent conclusion if reports are to believed. I think that in itself has to carry some weight.
However, the idea that all of this is new in football is simply untrue. Football has been a murky cesspit since day one. Pick a decade, pick a club, pick any hour of any day and something unpleasant was happening. All that's happened is things have scaled up as time moves on. No longer the dodgy local businessman and instead the dodgy global businessman. The questionable antics of the players is now broadcast around the world where previously it was kept under wraps. Just think how many players you have cheered and adored that have skeletons in their many closets. How many clubs still have dark secrets yet to be revealed to the world.
As fans we make peace with it because for those 90 minutes, we get taken on a ride that renders everything else in our lives irrelevant and we are hooked like addicts to a drug. Even if we walk away from it, we'll find ourselves stood on a terrace in the 9th division watching Dave from the pub slide tackle 4 people at once, or join our mates at the pub to watch Swindon v Doncaster on a Tuesday night surrounded by the unmistakable scent of stale piss. It is what is it. And we're not alone in sport. Look at cricket. Scandal after scandal but you know what, those weird weird people still follow it. Mental.
I agree, have been going to my youth club now since 2010 regularly and can safely say that experience is much more grounded and natural than what the PL is offering. Money driven and spoilt is my take on modern football.
I support Manchester United. I don’t necessarily support the people owning, managing, playing or working for the club. I don’t support every decision they make either. I will always support the club.
I understand this post but football means different things to different people dependant on many factors. Locality is one of the biggest someone grows up as a local fan of the team, the orientation of support is vastly different to someone who viewed United's success from Europe or even third world countries. The local supporter has a different bond to the foundations of the club because of sentimentality.
The club grows domestically and that success garners support from a diversity of developments which positively helps elevate the stature of the club. I don't think you can throw every person who follows the club into the same context and category. What's disappointing to see is one side aggrandise themselves over the other, not suggesting this has come from the OP at all but it's something witnessed in that takeover thread.
What we have witnessed is an influx of investment into the sport which has propelled stakeholder interest and now it's more commercialised. Inevitably the sport has gone through change. I think the disparity between middle eastern ownership and traditional ownership is the later don't capitalise on the business element as well as those with investment from foreign nations. Bohely is another new example of an economic background and using those practices to astutely try and benefit his team.
I also chuckle to some extent after ten years of failure, compounded by poor ownership and crumbling infrastructure does United even qualify still having glory hunters. I know the inadequacy of the team hasn't been nearly as long as a Liverpool but it would be like suggesting in their uncompetitive years they had glory hunters in the fan base.
The club grows domestically and that success garners support from a diversity of developments which positively helps elevate the stature of the club. I don't think you can throw every person who follows the club into the same context and category. What's disappointing to see is one side aggrandise themselves over the other, not suggesting this has come from the OP at all but it's something witnessed in that takeover thread.
What we have witnessed is an influx of investment into the sport which has propelled stakeholder interest and now it's more commercialised. Inevitably the sport has gone through change. I think the disparity between middle eastern ownership and traditional ownership is the later don't capitalise on the business element as well as those with investment from foreign nations. Bohely is another new example of an economic background and using those practices to astutely try and benefit his team.
I also chuckle to some extent after ten years of failure, compounded by poor ownership and crumbling infrastructure does United even qualify still having glory hunters. I know the inadequacy of the team hasn't been nearly as long as a Liverpool but it would be like suggesting in their uncompetitive years they had glory hunters in the fan base.
Yeah, it’s a shame. I’ll always have a soft spot for United but youre right, money driven and corrupt.
Agreed. Especially as most competitions are off limits to real clubs, having been bought into the foreseeable future by nation states as playthings or propaganda tools. Glazers — though awful — look almost decent beside some of these. Your points about surviving Munich are well taken, also.
Sums it up beautifully. Should be worth an instant promotion.
On the flip side, how do you expect people to be okay with incompetence? Regardless of whether it’s the United you grew up with or not, the world is different now and as a club you have to operate differently or risk stagnating (like we have) and eventually fading away. I’d accept even being run closer to Brighton with more money than being City, but instead we’ve done neither and caught in this “we’re United this is how we’ve always done it” while being run by parasites and clowns so we’ve lost ground both on the pitch and off of it.
I mean feck I doubt anyone supporting us these days can be called a “glory hunter” when we haven’t had anything close to glory in a decade while every other big club barring Arsenal has had their run.
we don't need to be owned by a state
just competent ownership would be enough
just competent ownership would be enough
For me, the point is to be entertained by some strangers kicking a ball around once or twice a week. Monday night failed in that. so here's hoping Saturday brings some joy. The rest is just noise.
It’s seemingly too much to ask.
Everything these leaches do, everyone they hire, anything they touch eventually collapses in a heap of shite and fire.
We have the Glazers curse.
I genuinely would rather have us be relegated than being Oilchester United.
This post is spot on.
Feck the use of this club to sportswash the agenda of a slave-driving, homophobic, anti-woman oil nation.
Feck the directors in charge who would even consider bringing back a rapist to play for a club that used to have morals.
Feck the neverending race to the bottom, and the slinking further and further away from values of this once-great club.
Feck how this sport has become progressively less about sport, and more about money.
Feck all the fans that cover their eyes to all of this in the vain pursuit of a few trophies - selling the soul of the club probably won't bring them any closer btw, ye gowls.
Feck the Glazers. Feck the Qatari dictatorship. Feck Richard Arnold. Feck Voldemort.
Ethics in absentia.
Feck the use of this club to sportswash the agenda of a slave-driving, homophobic, anti-woman oil nation.
Feck the directors in charge who would even consider bringing back a rapist to play for a club that used to have morals.
Feck the neverending race to the bottom, and the slinking further and further away from values of this once-great club.
Feck how this sport has become progressively less about sport, and more about money.
Feck all the fans that cover their eyes to all of this in the vain pursuit of a few trophies - selling the soul of the club probably won't bring them any closer btw, ye gowls.
Feck the Glazers. Feck the Qatari dictatorship. Feck Richard Arnold. Feck Voldemort.
Ethics in absentia.
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Yeah Qatari ownership and bringing Greenwood back into the fold are red line issues for me. Sad to see that so many fans are being put in a position to choose between their moral compass and the club they've supported since childhood.
Thank you for posting this thread, it's nice to see so many other Utd supporters going through the same moral quandary with regards to ownership, the MG situation, money in football, the recent Sportswashing influx, etc.
I'm only 32 but I feel so detached from what the business of elite level football, including Utd, has become over the past few years it makes me question whether it's something I want to bother sinking my time into for the rest of my life. All aspects of the Premier Leagues current financial domination disgusts me, it's business people preying on people's emotions to increase their own profits. We're the midst of a cost of living crisis and yet we're seeing clubs panic bidding over £100million pounds for players, it's a wider issue than Utd but it's sickening.
I really love Utd, the history, the buzz around a match whether it's at OT or just watching it on the TV, the sense of being part of a following & getting behind the players no matter how rubbish they can sometimes be because they represent us as a fanbase. Year on year though, with the influx of money & pushing of the "product", its starting to feel less like a club & more like a heartless business entity, and the sense of pride for being a Utd fan dimishing with it. I'm sure fans of other clubs feel the same, it's not "wanting the good ol' days back" like I'm sure some will perceive this, it's just not what football is/was for me when I first became a fan.
I almost posted in the Saudi League thread following the comments made about how they want to make Saudi The place to play for elite players... In my mind good, let it be the place to go, at least then we might get the proper Utd back.
I'm only 32 but I feel so detached from what the business of elite level football, including Utd, has become over the past few years it makes me question whether it's something I want to bother sinking my time into for the rest of my life. All aspects of the Premier Leagues current financial domination disgusts me, it's business people preying on people's emotions to increase their own profits. We're the midst of a cost of living crisis and yet we're seeing clubs panic bidding over £100million pounds for players, it's a wider issue than Utd but it's sickening.
I really love Utd, the history, the buzz around a match whether it's at OT or just watching it on the TV, the sense of being part of a following & getting behind the players no matter how rubbish they can sometimes be because they represent us as a fanbase. Year on year though, with the influx of money & pushing of the "product", its starting to feel less like a club & more like a heartless business entity, and the sense of pride for being a Utd fan dimishing with it. I'm sure fans of other clubs feel the same, it's not "wanting the good ol' days back" like I'm sure some will perceive this, it's just not what football is/was for me when I first became a fan.
I almost posted in the Saudi League thread following the comments made about how they want to make Saudi The place to play for elite players... In my mind good, let it be the place to go, at least then we might get the proper Utd back.
I agree with this, and it applies to the execs making the decision about the thing we’re not allowed to talk about, but I am genuinely a bit gutted that Ten Hag is supportive of it happening.
The owners and execs are irrelevant, but I do have emotional investment in the players and the players and the manager and I genuinely believed in Ten Hag as a decent sort, I’ll be a bit gutted if it turns out he’s got poor morals.
Also to the “games gone” lot - yeah you’re right in many respects but it’s improved in others ie, racism/homophobia no longer tolerated in the same way by players and fans, better understanding and awareness of mental health, reduction of bullying culture in dressing rooms.
Also some truly heinous shit happened in the past like at Crewe.
Money is harming the game, but there was lots wrong in the past as well that has improved.
This imminent Greenwood news has really put a downer on the season.
Are you one of those people...?
Non-state owners can't afford us because of the Glazers' ridiculous valuation. It's coming whether we like it or not.
If a certain contracted player is ever allowed to step back on the Old Trafford pitch that will be me done with the club and I would guess the final straw for a lot of people as well.
The soul and values of the club have been destroyed over the last 20 years.
The soul and values of the club have been destroyed over the last 20 years.
My view is that it's not particularly Man United that has forced change. It's football and we are getting pulled along with it whether we like it or not. The system is completely indifferent to us.
Yes we have shite owners, we drew the short straw on that one. However it's not as if being owned as a PLC was a utopia. In fact that system got us into our current trouble because they had no loyalty to the club or it's success at heart.
The footballing ecosystem, the way the finances work, the way the commercials are driven, it's all directed towards making more and more money and players are the eventual beneficiaries and the transfer fees increase to represent the growing value created by the game. Outside that, you also have state run clubs that are operating outside purely business parameters and create imbalance.
What does that mean? It means you need deep, deep pockets to compete at the top end. So yes, ultimately it's get a state backed owner, or a private owner that's essentially interested in philanthropy (hmm how many of them are there?) or the club will not win in the long run. That's football now. Until governance is implemented that tries to create more sporting merit and balance in the sport then that's how it is. You either have to suspend cynicism and get on board or if it's all a bit too distasteful then also you can vote with your feet. But it's not particularly a Man United thing.
Yes we have shite owners, we drew the short straw on that one. However it's not as if being owned as a PLC was a utopia. In fact that system got us into our current trouble because they had no loyalty to the club or it's success at heart.
The footballing ecosystem, the way the finances work, the way the commercials are driven, it's all directed towards making more and more money and players are the eventual beneficiaries and the transfer fees increase to represent the growing value created by the game. Outside that, you also have state run clubs that are operating outside purely business parameters and create imbalance.
What does that mean? It means you need deep, deep pockets to compete at the top end. So yes, ultimately it's get a state backed owner, or a private owner that's essentially interested in philanthropy (hmm how many of them are there?) or the club will not win in the long run. That's football now. Until governance is implemented that tries to create more sporting merit and balance in the sport then that's how it is. You either have to suspend cynicism and get on board or if it's all a bit too distasteful then also you can vote with your feet. But it's not particularly a Man United thing.
Football clubs in Iceland are non-profit organizations. I think there might be one club that isn't.
I find it kind of funny that it's the fans who have the most power to stop all this shit. Everyone could do it by simply not buying crap like £100 jerseys, Sky subs, not going to games etc just don't give it any money or pay it any attention and instead go and spend time and money at your smaller local club.
But that will never happen, we're all just addicts who need our football fix and have been conditioned into thinking the PL is really the only drug worth taking.
But that will never happen, we're all just addicts who need our football fix and have been conditioned into thinking the PL is really the only drug worth taking.
This, spot on. It's adapt or die basically and I think it's a shame some would rather watch us die for self-righteous reasons.
The way I see it is, we either want to be serious about winning or we don't. If we want to compete with City and soon to be Newcastle, we're going to need the investment. There is a tonne of work that needs to be done. It's not going to get done via the club revenue alone.
Morals went out of the window when Chelsea, City and Newcastle's owners were allowed to buy their clubs. United can be the moral club, but we will not compete. I can understand other people not wanting this, but I want to see the club win. Watching City win the league every year is so fecking painful. Matching our treble is even worse.
I'm expecting #11 to be back pretty soon. If they didn't want to do it, he'd be gone by now. Seems like PR suicide. I don't understand how they're going to bring him back. He's going to get dogs abuse at every game. It's not worth it. Cut your losses and move on.
Morals went out of the window when Chelsea, City and Newcastle's owners were allowed to buy their clubs. United can be the moral club, but we will not compete. I can understand other people not wanting this, but I want to see the club win. Watching City win the league every year is so fecking painful. Matching our treble is even worse.
I'm expecting #11 to be back pretty soon. If they didn't want to do it, he'd be gone by now. Seems like PR suicide. I don't understand how they're going to bring him back. He's going to get dogs abuse at every game. It's not worth it. Cut your losses and move on.
It's heartbreaking stuff really to consider that the club is apparently willing to do this and force so many of us into this predicament. Fans may turn away from the club in doves over this, is it really worth it?
I’ve been feeling this way for a while. One of the reasons why I watch mainly Eredivisie games now. If that guy comes back, I genuinely think that’s me done until he’s gone. Nothing changes, different people same shit, and it’s always a shitshow in one way or another.
Which story?
I’ve never felt more detached from the club than I do right now and that Greenwood news just hammers it down.
I don’t know how anyone can hear that audio clip and come to any other decision but to terminate his contract and get rid of him.
I don’t know how anyone can hear that audio clip and come to any other decision but to terminate his contract and get rid of him.
Oh, please! This is such a "things were so much better back in our day" thread.
The (football) world is changing; you can either keep up with the change or get left behind. And for those pining for the 51% fan ownership model, please take a look at Bundesliga; United would walk the premier league every year under such a system.
Football is not about morals or politics; it is about watching your team win in style; it is about the thrill of watching a young player dribble past a seasoned pro and score; it is about the magic of last-minute winners; it is about players leaving everything on the football pitch such that 'they rather die than come off it'. Everything else is just noise.
If you can't laud City's achievements because of their ownership/wealth etc., you are fans of a cause, not of football. Similarly, if you can't bring yourself to support United under Qatari ownership, I really have to ask if you are fans of the club or of your cause/politics.
This thread makes me recall Fergie's comments on FC United; he was spot on:
"I'm sorry about that. It is a bit sad that part, but I wonder just how big a United supporter they are.
"They seem to me to be promoting or projecting themselves a wee bit rather than saying `at the end of the day the club have made a decision, we'll stick by them.' It's more about them than us."
The (football) world is changing; you can either keep up with the change or get left behind. And for those pining for the 51% fan ownership model, please take a look at Bundesliga; United would walk the premier league every year under such a system.
Football is not about morals or politics; it is about watching your team win in style; it is about the thrill of watching a young player dribble past a seasoned pro and score; it is about the magic of last-minute winners; it is about players leaving everything on the football pitch such that 'they rather die than come off it'. Everything else is just noise.
If you can't laud City's achievements because of their ownership/wealth etc., you are fans of a cause, not of football. Similarly, if you can't bring yourself to support United under Qatari ownership, I really have to ask if you are fans of the club or of your cause/politics.
This thread makes me recall Fergie's comments on FC United; he was spot on:
"I'm sorry about that. It is a bit sad that part, but I wonder just how big a United supporter they are.
"They seem to me to be promoting or projecting themselves a wee bit rather than saying `at the end of the day the club have made a decision, we'll stick by them.' It's more about them than us."
For anyone else disgusted by the prospect of MG being reintegrated into the squad/team, you can email the club directly at feedback@manutd.co.uk
I genuinely think they're hugely underestimating the scale and ferocity of the shitstorm that bringing him back into the squad will unleash, not to mention the damage to the club's reputation globally
I genuinely think they're hugely underestimating the scale and ferocity of the shitstorm that bringing him back into the squad will unleash, not to mention the damage to the club's reputation globally
Well said.
No apologies needed.
Its a major downer.
Older fan here and yep accept or move on. Love the game warts and all.