What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

His names not been mentioned in ages, but especially because we now play 3-4-3 why aren't we looking at Frimpong?

34m release fee.
He’s tiny and the person he replaces whether Dalot or Maz, would be one of the only aerially proficient players we have. The team is very undersized/powered already and so I guess the thinking might be that signing him would compound matters
 
This week:

Out
Garnacho sold
Rashford loaned
Antony loaned
Malacia loaned
Casemiro loaned

In
Dorgu £40m
Cunha £60m (or nkunku loan)
Osimhen loan
Douglas Luiz loan (or perm with Hojlund/Zirkzee going the other way)
 
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His names not been mentioned in ages, but especially because we now play 3-4-3 why aren't we looking at Frimpong?
He is rather diminuitive and slightly built, unfortunately. Having 5'7" Diallo and 5'6" Frimpong on the same flank might be a folly.

There has to be some sort of baseline with these immutable things, or we will again have a Starting XI that is lacking in certain physical characteristics.

For reference, Alonso is 6'. Hardly a giant, but towers over the lad...

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Another day gone.

Are we expecting one deal to cascade to multiple deals being done.... or just a damp squib of general underwhelming despair until the end of the window?
 
Another day gone.

Are we expecting one deal to cascade to multiple deals being done.... or just a damp squib of general underwhelming despair until the end of the window?

Hoping for the former but looking like the latter
 
This week:

Out
Garnacho sold
Rashford loaned
Antony loaned
Malacia loaned
Casemiro loaned

In
Dorgu £40m
Cunha £60m (or nkunku loan)
Osimhen loan
Douglas Luiz loan (or perm with Hojlund/Zirkzee going the other way)

The Osimhen, Cunha and Douglas Luiz stuff is coming from unreliable sources in Ogden and the banned Simon Jones unfortunately. Only really Nkunku on that list has been mentioned by a reliable source.
 
The Osimhen, Cunha and Douglas Luiz stuff is coming from unreliable sources in Ogden and the banned Simon Jones unfortunately. Only really Nkunku on that list has been mentioned by a reliable source.
I can’t imagine a scenario where we don’t bring a striker in this week. I just have no idea who it might be
 
If we sign a player from a Champions League club, can we play him in the Europa League?

Otherwise I see little value in it. Winning the Europa League is our only realistic chance left of a successful season
 
I really like Angelo Stiller as a player, a Kroos regen from his Madrid days if we have ever seen one. His progressive passing stats are insane. He wouldn't be expensive from Stuttgart and we could still bring in a good B2B player like Ederson or Baleba. This would totally revamp our midfield and we would have an amazing midfield group including Ugarte, Mainoo and Collyer. But I still have some questions whether he has the speed and defending intensity to play in the EPL. What is your take on that? And if not Stiller, who else could bring in the progressive passing in midfield that we could target?
I think the other option that springs to my mind is Exequiel Palacios who is at Leverkusen. A very good central midfielder who I believe is someone with the correct age profile to bring straight into the team. Moving both Casemiro and Eriksen and signing Palacios and Ederson would potentially be the right moves imo.

Don't you think it should be the job of Ugarte's companion? For example Mainoo is pretty much capable of being progressive (not as a passer but as a dribbler) but he is still too raw. Or ball progression can be done by the wing backs but don't.
I think you can work around a player's deficiencies in possession by surrounding him with players who can take on the creative burden on the ball. But I feel we shouldn't have to do that because you can sign players who can do both jobs. So I don't know why they thought signing a player like Ugarte who does his best work off the ball and is limited on the ball was going to raise the level in the team. It quite clearly wasn't gonna happen and it's why PSG and Luis Enrique were happy to see him go because he's limited in possession. I don't see the point of having him in the team if we transition into a more dominant team. He's more of a player who can be utilised against teams who look to impose their game on us but he isn't someone who you would want in the team if you're looking to dominate the game. In that scenario it would be far more beneficial to have a player in midfield who can break lines and create plays. That's not Ugarte's game.
 
I think the other option that springs to my mind is Exequiel Palacios who is at Leverkusen. A very good central midfielder who I believe is someone with the correct age profile to bring straight into the team. Moving both Casemiro and Eriksen and signing Palacios and Ederson would potentially be the right moves imo.


I think you can work around a player's deficiencies in possession by surrounding him with players who can take on the creative burden on the ball. But I feel we shouldn't have to do that because you can sign players who can do both jobs. So I don't know why they thought signing a player like Ugarte who does his best work off the ball and is limited on the ball was going to raise the level in the team. It quite clearly wasn't gonna happen and it's why PSG and Luis Enrique were happy to see him go because he's limited in possession. I don't see the point of having him in the team if we transition into a more dominant team. He's more of a player who can be utilised against teams who look to impose their game on us but he isn't someone who you would want in the team if you're looking to dominate the game. In that scenario it would be far more beneficial to have a player in midfield who can break lines and create plays. That's not Ugarte's game.
What do you mean not raised the level of this team?

We lack athleticism, got battered on the transition, kept leaking shots, were wide open.

Yes he isn’t the second coming of Carrick or Keane, he isn’t some donkey on the ball, he has shown he can switch play, yes he isn’t going to get on the ball 80/90 times and dictate tempo.

I still think he could play against every team, he might have a ceiling, we don’t know what that is yet and Amorim might not want to play like Enrique, he has been in 2 1/2 months, until we know what sort of team he wants we don’t know as he has previously played under Amorim at Sporting.

We do need a midfielder of which you have described, but to say I don’t know why Ugarte was signed, is a bit bemusing as since he has got match fit he has been our best midfielder.
 
Summer 2025 we should be going after some of the free transfers to bolster our squad:

J David
J Tah
A Gomes
Anguissa

Then we should get some Prem quality players such as

Kerkez
Gibbs-White
O Watkins
Martinez

I really hope we don’t start dipping into the Portuguese market for every player. I think we will end up regretting signing Gyorkeres for £80m.
 
In
Dorgu
Nypan
Cunha/Lee Kang
Gyokeres

Out
Casemiro
Rashford
Antony
Zirkzee (Loan)

Would be a great start
 
What do you mean not raised the level of this team?

We lack athleticism, got battered on the transition, kept leaking shots, were wide open.

Yes he isn’t the second coming of Carrick or Keane, he isn’t some donkey on the ball, he has shown he can switch play, yes he isn’t going to get on the ball 80/90 times and dictate tempo.

I still think he could play against every team, he might have a ceiling, we don’t know what that is yet and Amorim might not want to play like Enrique, he has been in 2 1/2 months, until we know what sort of team he wants we don’t know as he has previously played under Amorim at Sporting.

We do need a midfielder of which you have described, but to say I don’t know why Ugarte was signed, is a bit bemusing as since he has got match fit he has been our best midfielder.
I've been pointing out the lack of athletism in the team for years on this forum and the quoted post below describes what I've been repeating on here for years.

It could've been addressed in the summer window just gone but for some strange reason it was decided that we had to sign Ugarte and Zirkzee who imo wasn't needed due to his profile. I think the backline has potential when everyone is fit but the midfield is nowhere near good enough as a collective unit to propel the team forward as far as playing a more dominant brand of football.

The issue isn't just athleticism which I've been banging on about for years. But the issues when it comes to the midfield as a composition is that we not only lack athleticism and recovery pace but also the inability to play out of confined spaces against the opposition press. Mainoo will provide some of the missing ingredients when it comes to playing in confined spaces but he needs to be backed up by players alongside him in midfield who have the physical, athletic and technical qualities to play a more vertical game. So keeping the ball, evading the press and breaking lines at a good level is an absolute requirement for the defensive and deeper midfield lines. And our midfield as a composition just isn't balanced enough to control opposition transitions and also not good enough in-possession to evade the press and progress the ball forward. When your midfield lacks the aforementioned attributes as a collective, then the ceiling of the entire team is affected. When your deeper midfield players or CBs lack in the aforementioned attributes then you allow the opposition to be even more effective in their own game plan which is what has been happening.

I've been saying the same thing for years and I'll say it again, we need to raise the physical, athletic and technical quality of the team with the deeper midfield positions being our weaknesses. Just one player with the right attributes coming into central
midfield could have a big impact because the backline seems to have potential. And until proper upgrades are brought in it might be wise to not go too attacking against certain teams. Because as you saw with the game earlier, all three results were possible where we could've lost/won but ended up drawing.
Ugarte is average when it comes to raising the physical side of what I'm talking about and his vertical game is almost non existent and even the statistics would back that up.
 
Can't fathom how Bournemouth had a free run at him. Would have been a great pick up at the price he was sold and not as if he came out of the blue either - frequently used to see match comps of his on twitter.

Not happening in a million years, but would be an amazing get

 
Who can we realistically sell/loan out by August 2025?

I didn't want to make a new thread, but I've been thinking about this for a while and I'd argue that there's at least a clear collection of players that will be out of the door and then a few whom are in closer to a 50/50.

Expected to leave:

Heaton - Contract expires June 25
Evans - Contract expires June 25
Lindelof - Contract expires June 25
Eriksen - Contract expires June 25
Sancho - Chelsea reportedly have obligation to buy for £20m (+£5m add-ons) if they finish in the top 14

There are other players we can potentially shift into this category, such as Rashford who is expected to be loaned out by the end of the window and Antony who already has. I would be shocked if we don't manage to rid of both of them in the Summer. However, the five above, with the exception of maybe Eriksen, might not even need replacing. Maybe we would even suggest that Collyer comes in as the midfield player and we don't sign someone else? I doubt this, but it's possible we wouldn't add someone in this area unless we were to sign another player who can play no.10 and move Bruno deeper, or sell Casemiro and definitely need to add at least one.

Likely to be sold:

Rashford
Antony
Casemiro

As touched on, Rashford & Antony's futures seem destined to be not at Manchester United. Casemiro should be gone and he's someone we should be actively looking to move due to wages, but it will be another difficult one. As mentioned previously, if he doesn't want to leave then we're stuck. Maybe Casemiro doesn't actually fit into this category and it's more hope than expectation, but if he can be moved on he will be.

In the Media:

Garnacho
Malacia
Zirkzee
Hojlund
Mainoo

I don't believe the Mainoo reports for the record, even if he's been in and out of the team like Garnacho this season. I just think that it's normal for the likes of Garnacho, Mainoo, and Hojlund to be inconsistent in performances and selection at their age. They are promising young players in a bad team with a lack of leaders, which just spells disaster to me. They have done well to be as good as they've been up to this point, everyone is having a bit of a poorer year bar a select few. I would rather lose Zirkzee than Hojlund as I think there's more potential in the latter, but I actually think both will stay with us next season. Malacia looks set for a loan if we can secure a signing at Left Back/Wing Back and he's probably going to struggle to get into the team next season if we strengthen the Wing Backs as expected. I don't think he's a player we need to be in a rush to sell, and I have some sympathy for him due to a long-standing injury and coming back into the squad at this time with a new manager and ideas. But he was cheap, he's someone who can have a bit more development and hopefully just be sold for not too much less than what we paid if it doesn't work out in 12-18 months.

There are players like Shaw and Mount who I think the club is going to have to be harsh with due to injury record, but I don't foresee them leaving this season. Hopefully (and this is a big if) they can get fit this year and have a full pre-season, go into next season firing on all cylinders, but I doubt it somewhat.

I suppose the biggest question from this is how many players can we realistically move on by August and how many will we be able to afford to sign? Is there really going to be some truth in having to sell Garnacho or Mainoo to ensure that significant profit that can be used to bolster the squad in multiple positions?

I do think we can significantly reduce the wage bill when you look at some of the reported weekly wage figures such as: Heaton 45k, Evans 65k, Lindelof 120k, Eriksen 150k, Sancho 300k (150k this season), Rashford 300k, Antony 200k, and Casemiro 350k. Around 1.5m a week in wages saved there and if we can start bringing in the types of player who will take 120k a week or less on their first contract we create less risk of them being difficult to sell if they don't meet expectation. It will be part of the big culture shift if we can stop giving out 150-200k contracts so often - currently having nine players in the squad on 150k a week or more. I think the goal should be to reduce this to three. If we do bring in 5-6 players on these kind of salaries or less, then we are still reducing the wages massively. It must be done if we aren't in Europe and want to start funding this new stadium etc.

How many players can we realistically sign? And lets not forget that we probably do need to look at some players that count as 'Home Grown' since we will lose Heaton, Evans, Sancho, and potentially Rashford. We probably need 1-2 Wingbacks, a Forward, and 1-2 Midfield players as an absolute minimum depending on outgoings.

What say the Caf?
 
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Who can we realistically sell/loan out by August 2025?

I didn't want to make a new thread, but I've been thinking about this for a while and I'd argue that there's at least a clear collection of players that will be out of the door and then a few whom are in closer to a 50/50.

Expected to leave:

Heaton - Contract expires June 25
Evans - Contract expires June 25
Lindelof - Contract expires June 25
Eriksen - Contract expires June 25
Sancho - Chelsea reportedly have obligation to buy for £20m (+£5m add-ons) if they finish in the top 14

There are other players we can potentially shift into this category, such as Rashford who is expected to be loaned out by the end of the window and Antony who already has. I would be shocked if we don't manage to rid of both of them in the Summer. However, the five above, with the exception of maybe Eriksen, might not even need replacing. Maybe we would even suggest that Collyer comes in as the midfield player and we don't sign someone else? I doubt this, but it's possible we wouldn't add someone in this area unless we were to sign another player who can play no.10 and move Bruno deeper, or sell Casemiro and definitely need to add at least one.

Likely to be sold:

Rashford
Antony
Casemiro

As touched on, Rashford & Antony's futures seem destined to be not at Manchester United. Casemiro should be gone and he's someone we should be actively looking to move due to wages, but it will be another difficult one. As mentioned previously, if he doesn't want to leave then we're stuck. Maybe Casemiro doesn't actually fit into this category and it's more hope than expectation, but if he can be moved on he will be.

In the Media:

Garnacho
Malacia
Zirkzee
Hojlund
Mainoo

I don't believe the Mainoo reports for the record, even if he's been in and out of the team like Garnacho this season. I just think that it's normal for the likes of Garnacho, Mainoo, and Hojlund to be inconsistent in performances and selection at their age. They are promising young players in a bad team with a lack of leaders, which just spells disaster to me. They have done well to be as good as they've been up to this point, everyone is having a bit of a poorer year bar a select few. I would rather lose Zirkzee than Hojlund as I think there's more potential in the latter, but I actually think both will stay with us next season. Malacia looks set for a loan if we can secure a signing at Left Back/Wing Back and he's probably going to struggle to get into the team next season if we strengthen the Wing Backs as expected. I don't think he's a player we need to be in a rush to sell, and I have some sympathy for him due to a long-standing injury and coming back into the squad at this time with a new manager and ideas. But he was cheap, he's someone who can have a bit more development and hopefully just be sold for not too much less than what we paid if it doesn't work out in 12-18 months.

There are players like Shaw and Mount who I think the club is going to have to be harsh with due to injury record, but I don't foresee them leaving this season. Hopefully (and this is a big if) they can get fit this year and have a full pre-season, go into next season firing on all cylinders, but I doubt it somewhat.

I suppose the biggest question from this is how many players can we realistically move on by August and how many will we be able to afford to sign? Is there really going to be some truth in having to sell Garnacho or Mainoo to ensure that significant profit that can be used to bolster the squad in multiple positions?

I do think we can significantly reduce the wage bill when you look at some of the reported weekly wage figures such as: Heaton 45k, Evans 65k, Lindelof 120k, Eriksen 150k, Sancho 300k (150k this season), Rashford 300k, Antony 200k, and Casemiro 350k. Around 1.5m a week in wages saved there and if we can start bringing in the types of player who will take 120k a week or less on their first contract we create less risk of them being difficult to sell if they don't meet expectation. It will be part of the big culture shift if we can stop giving out 150-200k contracts so often - currently having nine players in the squad on 150k a week or more. I think the goal should be to reduce this to three. If we do bring in 5-6 players on these kind of salaries or less, then we are still reducing the wages massively. It must be done if we aren't in Europe and want to start funding this new stadium etc.

How many players can we realistically sign? And lets not forget that we probably do need to look at some players that count as 'Home Grown' since we will lose Heaton, Evans, Sancho, and potentially Rashford. We probably need 1-2 Wingbacks, a Forward, and 1-2 Midfield players as an absolute minimum depending on outgoings.

What say the Caf?
I think all the contract expiring players leave except maybe Heaton, helps with homegrown and probably end up being a player coach.

I think Antony leaves, clearly a market for him with Betis taking him on load, Rashford will likely be sold in the summer, Amorim clearly doesn't want him around, I would be surprised if he is still here at the end of Jan, with some sort of loan agreed to just get him out of the building. Casemiro is the tricky one, looks like Roma have some interest, but his huge wages are an issue, if he does leave permanently I think the profit from Rashford probably offsets the loss on Casemiro with having to pay him off to leave.

I think Garnacho, Malacia & Zirkzee are sold, Garnacho is pure profit for all his qualities his decision making has not improved, he struggles beating a man and clearly doesn't suit the system, Malacia is not good enough, unlucky with that injury but best off cashing in with Dorgu expected in the next 48 hours and Diego Leon coming in the summer to maybe be the understudy, Zirkzee has improved but clearly not what we need, doesn't suit the system, cash in while his value is as high as it is going to be.

Hojlund stays clearly not ready to lead the line, clearly has technical issues but we are not selling both out STs this summer with so many needs, Mainoo second season syndrome, clearly talented pretty confident Amorim will find a space for him in this team.

Shaw & Mount the forever injured, both really good players just clogging up the wage bill, I see them both staying as who would buy two injury prone players.

That is potentially 10/11 players of which 4/5 actually need replacing, there maybe a surprise in there but those are the ones i see leaving.

This team needs:

2 WBS - Dorgu in Jan Potentially
1 CM
2 10s
1 ST
 
Hell I'd take Jaoa Felix on loan for the rest of the season! Just get some strikers in.
 
Speaking short term, a left wing back plus an experienced striker on loan before the window shuts would be good. The first I think will happen now, the second I’m less sure of.

A few out the door would help.
 
Speaking short term, a left wing back plus an experienced striker on loan before the window shuts would be good. The first I think will happen now, the second I’m less sure of.

A few out the door would help.

Would you take Nkunku on a loan provided we kept Garnacho or do you mean more of a Ferguson type number 9 instead?
 
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I think Duran at Villa would be a great signing. He has a high ceiling. Only problem would be the price, 70m plus.

If we got Dorgu, plus loans of Luiz and Nkunku (as a striker) I think that would be a decent window. Then we can overhaul the forward positions in the summer.

.........Ugarte...Bruno
Amad.....Nkunku....Garnacho
 
I think Duran at Villa would be a great signing. He has a high ceiling. Only problem would be the price, 70m plus.

If we got Dorgu, plus loans of Luiz and Nkunku (as a striker) I think that would be a decent window. Then we can overhaul the forward positions in the summer.

.........Ugarte...Bruno
Amad.....Nkunku....Garnacho

Can Nkunku play as a striker, only ask as Chelsea fans seem to think he doesn't suit playing there at all
 
Can Nkunku play as a striker, only ask as Chelsea fans seem to think he doesn't suit playing there at all
Im assuming he can play it better than Hojlund and Zirkzee and hes available on loan.

Im not keen on Felix. We need players that can penetrate physically and technically. We have too many slow players.

We could do worse than bring in Pedro Porro for the right wing back. He is superb going forward, with a great cross and shot.
 
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Mathys Tel is available. I can see us going in for him. We would be just about the biggest club he could find where he is guaranteed game time. Either as a left winger or striker.
 
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Mathys Tel is available. I can see us going in for him. We would be just about the biggest club he could find where he is guaranteed game time. Either as a left winger or striker.
Chelsea and Arsenal are all over him, no?? Think he'd get serious game time at both of those so can't see him picking us now as much as I'd love him.
 
Mathys Tel is available. I can see us going in for him. We would be just about the biggest club he could find where he is guaranteed game time. Either as a left winger or striker.
He always seems lively when I've seen him play. Why doesn't he get a look in at Bayern?
 
Mathys Tel would make so much sense as a surprise signing, if reports are true that he wants to leave Bayern. Chelsea already have plenty of CFs, we only have two, who are not scoring. He's a different profile of CF than what we have, can link up well like Zirkzee, but is also fast like Hojlund. However, he's different to the mentioned in terms of goal instinct and will to score. He might please Amorim by getting into the box more often than our CFs. Also, if I remember correctly he is also great at headers.
 
So if we're looking at 2 players per position, our squad is something like this for now when it comes to options who are actually used (and looking ahead to next season):
  • GK - Onana, Altay
  • RCB - Mazraoui, Yoro, *De Ligt
  • CCB - De Ligt, Maguire
  • LCB - Martinez, Shaw
  • RWB - Dalot, *Mazraoui, *Amad
  • RCM (ball winner) - Ugarte, Collyer
  • LCB (Playmaker) - Mainoo, *Bruno, **Eriksen
  • LWB - Dorgu, *Dalot, **Malacia (or the new signing Leon)
  • RAM - Amad, Mount
  • LAM - Bruno, Garnacho
  • CF - Zirkzee?, Hojlund?
* - not the main position for the players and have main positions elsewhere
** - players who have a role for now but are probably off either now or in the summer (one of zirkzee/Hojlund I'd bet will leave so giving them question marks)

I can see Bruno for the rest of this season seeing a lot more time in midfield as the main playmaking mid while Mainoo is more his backup, and then Garnacho and Amad are both used in the attacking mid positions. Mount is of course part of the rotation but he can't stay fit so if it were up to me, I'd get rid but unlikely he goes anywhere.

I'm honestly pretty happy about the options for the midfield/defence. Dorgu I hope is good enough to actually start games and make the position his own but it's a big unknown. Amad can play RWB when we need more creativity, so between him and Dalot for that I think it's fine. We just need to sort out the front 3. We need a starting striker, and Mounts fitness has to improve so we have another reliable option to rotate in the #10's so we can actually use Amad at RWB or Bruno in CM.

Bring in Gyokeres and Cunha for example and we could do this, which is much better than now IMO. Small matter of laying for those 2, but it's just 2 players, how hard could it be if someone takes Casemiro and Rashford off our hands along with Eriksen and Lindelof leaving.

Onana
Mazraoui De ligt Martinez
Dalot* Ugarte Bruno Dorgu
Amad Cunha
Gyokeres

Altay
Yoro Maguire Shaw
Rotate* Collyer Mainoo Leon
Mount Garnacho
Zirkzee
 
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So Dorgu Leon confirmed - Heaven supposed to be close and MEN reporting that interesting being shown in Dortmund (ex City) Jamie Gittens

A bit if a Sancho profile but probably fits better than Nkunku

INEOS rebuilding from the bottom up if you add Sekou Obi-Martin Godwill etc

No threat for Gittens or would have posted in there
 
For the summer: RWB is not a priority but I wish we'd sign Frimpong and sell Dalot. Then we could also bring Quenda later. Frimpong is born to play that role and has a release clause. Ironically a Dutch player, but that'd make it easier to adapt. Unfortunately I guess CM, CF and left 10 will be adressed first and we'll lose him to a rival.
 
We should get Felix on loan with option to buy for around 40-50m. We can then play Bruno and him in #10 and Amad and Dorgu as WB. Our attack will have some teeth again.