What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

even Weghorst and Ighalo?
Even them. I recall Weghorst linking the play pretty well and whilst not great in the box he was better than Zirkzee.

Ighalo was more physical than Rasmus. Again not a world beater but someone who contributed well during his limited time here.

Dusty Bin would look good as a loan signing right now.
 
Even them. I recall Weghorst linking the play pretty well and whilst not great in the box he was better than Zirkzee.

Ighalo was more physical than Rasmus. Again not a world beater but someone who contributed well during his limited time here.

Dusty Bin would look good as a loan signing right now.
That's a bit too harsh imo. Zirkzee's link up play has been really good recently. He's just not scoring which also was Weghorst's problem. Also yesterday he seemed to go more into the box than usual but Amad didn't play the crosses.

Also, Ighalo was decent but don't forget Rasmus has scored 7 goals this season. It's underwhelming, especially in the league, but he's done way more than Ighalo. The problem is his transfer fee, as you'd wish to have a goalgetter for that amount.
 
If Garnacho stays

One striker in and one LWB at minimum before the window closes

If Garnacho leaves
A striker, LWB and a 10/Winger before the window closes

Anything less than this and they are sabotaging the manager
 
If we're in as bad a financial position as is being made out we might be staring at a couple of bleak transfer windows coming up, and might have to take some risks and limit our big signings a bit.

Outs = £155m over the next two windows

Garnacho - £60m
Casemiro - £0m
Rashford - £25m
Lindelof - £0m
Evans - £0m
Eriksen - £0m
Dalot - £30m
Antony - £15m
Malacia - £5m
Collyer - £20m (not what we want to do necessarily but for PSR we may need to)
Sancho - £25m
Zirkzee - Loan (to buy £25m)

In = £130m over the next two windows, depending on who we can offload this Jan.

Dorgeles - £20m
Diego Leon - £5m
Lamptey - £0m
Angel Gomes - £0m
Anguissa - £0m
Gutierrez - £30m
Nypan - £10m
Gyokeres - £65m


GK = Onana, Bayindir

RCB = Maz, Yoyo
CCB = De Ligt, Maguire
LCB - Martinez, Shaw, Kukonki

RWB = Lamptey, Amad (+Maz)
LWB = Gutierrez, Leon, Amass

CM = Ugarte, Anguissa, Mainoo, Gomes, Kone (+Bruno)

AM = Bruno, Dorgeles, Mount, Nypan (+Amad, Gomes, Mainoo, Youth)

ST = Gyokeres, Hojlund


Genuinely think the above team is far far superior to what we have currently and we would save a killing on wages as well as gaining small profit transfer-wise, including some homegrown lads off the books helping our PSR position massively.
 
Assuming Dorgu comes in and Anthony goes out on loan.

Then Garnacho goes to Chelsea and Cunha comes to Man Yoo. Would people accept that swap?
 
Assuming Dorgu comes in and Anthony goes out on loan.

Then Garnacho goes to Chelsea and Cunha comes to Man Yoo. Would people accept that swap?
If you add Dibbling in as well then yes, however I’m seriously not convinced by Dorgu, another unproven PL player that we are probably paying £10-15m too much for because we are so desperate right now.
 
If you add Dibbling in as well then yes, however I’m seriously not convinced by Dorgu, another unproven PL player that we are probably paying £10-15m too much for because we are so desperate right now.

Problem is, anything that is prem proven costs minimum 40-50m. I would actually bring in Dorgu and the fella from Benfica. Then close that position and move on.
 
If we're in as bad a financial position as is being made out we might be staring at a couple of bleak transfer windows coming up, and might have to take some risks and limit our big signings a bit.

Outs = £155m over the next two windows

Garnacho - £60m
Casemiro - £0m
Rashford - £25m
Lindelof - £0m
Evans - £0m
Eriksen - £0m
Dalot - £30m
Antony - £15m
Malacia - £5m
Collyer - £20m (not what we want to do necessarily but for PSR we may need to)
Sancho - £25m
Zirkzee - Loan (to buy £25m)

In = £130m over the next two windows, depending on who we can offload this Jan.

Dorgeles - £20m
Diego Leon - £5m
Lamptey - £0m
Angel Gomes - £0m
Anguissa - £0m
Gutierrez - £30m
Nypan - £10m
Gyokeres - £65m


GK = Onana, Bayindir

RCB = Maz, Yoyo
CCB = De Ligt, Maguire
LCB - Martinez, Shaw, Kukonki

RWB = Lamptey, Amad (+Maz)
LWB = Gutierrez, Leon, Amass

CM = Ugarte, Anguissa, Mainoo, Gomes, Kone (+Bruno)

AM = Bruno, Dorgeles, Mount, Nypan (+Amad, Gomes, Mainoo, Youth)

ST = Gyokeres, Hojlund


Genuinely think the above team is far far superior to what we have currently and we would save a killing on wages as well as gaining small profit transfer-wise, including some homegrown lads off the books helping our PSR position massively.
That squad finishes 6-8th at best we need more reliable options at right 10 and Left 10 , Bruno will become more and more an 8/CM in Amorim’s system so he can see the game in front of him. This might be our most crucial transfer window this summer as well as January 2025 will also show whether SJR is serious about restoring United to the top.

If he is, then he will need to add another £150m of actual cash investment for more shares to go with a potential £200m in players sales. We also need to remember the Homegrown rule too. Plus most of the youth players will go in a separate line and does not affect PSR however buying them at 18 and keeping them for three years so they become homegrown. We need a squad of 25 plus a couple of Youth players coming through.

Must Be Sold/Released (12)
A Onana - £25m / 140k
V Lindelof - Free /. 120k
D Dalot - £30m / 90k
J Evan’s - Released / 60k
Casemiro - £15m Saudi /340k
Eriksen - Free /180k
Antony - £15m / 200k
Garnaucho - £60m / 75k
M Rashford - £30m / 340k
J Sancho - £23m / 250k
J Zirkzee - £30m / 90k
T Mallacia - £7m :90k
Total generated in Sales - £220-235m
Wages saved weekly - nearly £2m per week

Players In; suit Amorim (3421 system)
Our biggest issue is adapting to the new system and have penetrating pace at wing back, in midfield and in the narrow 10 roles we are a bottom 5 PL with our current attacking options.

GK - B Verbrugen(30m) /PL Proven
CB - Diomende or J Branthwaite (60m)
LWB - T Michell or P Dorgu (30m)
RWB - J Frimpong (35m)
CM - A Gomes (Free)
DM/CM - Ederson (50m)
L10 - M Cunha /50m
R10 - T Dibbling (40m) or B Mbeumo (50m)
No 9 - V Gyokeres or V Osimhen - £65m
Total Spend over 2/3 windows - £350-360m

We need to absolutely remove those 12 players and buy at least 8 to 9 players of real quality to come in. If Gykores is our main target and we have to wait til the summer then we need to get Cunha and Mbeumo/Dybling in now.
 
Given how bad we have done last many years we need to do drastic chances in the team. We are not a top team at the moment and most like ly wont be next 1-3 years. This is a good time to clean up and act accordingly

First we need to stop paying the Manchester tax. This will hurt in the short term but would be valuable in the long term. We should, offer maximum up to EUR 30m for young developing players and backup players, and up to maximum EUR 60m for first team players that are assumed/expected to start or challenge immediately….

Second, second we need to bring in wage limits for different team levels, say star, first team, rotation, prospect. Maximum wage should be 200.000 a week (even this is high but this should be what you give players that are expected to start week in and week out.

Third, while doing above the team should be cleaned for deadwoood (Lindelof, Antony) and players on high wages that are not worth their salary (Casemiro, Sancho, Rashford)…

Fourth; we need to invest more in our scouting. We need to be able to scout several players for every position on an ongoing basis. Say Lecce do not accept our offer for Dorgu, which based on point two should have a max price we can offer, then we should be able to move to next target, and that should be known to clubs!

This will take time, it will hurt but is needed…
 
Cunha or Nkunku would be good for the central AM. But I worry about Nkunku being screwed from injuries.

After securing a LWB, the next 2 to 3 signings need to be reliable goal scorers and assiters.

Zirkzee and Hojlund are useless.
 
If Garnacho stays

One striker in and one LWB at minimum before the window closes

If Garnacho leaves
A striker, LWB and a 10/Winger before the window closes

Anything less than this and they are sabotaging the manager

Completely agree, however my fear is he goes and Utd cry sorry we ran out of time for replacement
 
If Garnacho stays

One striker in and one LWB at minimum before the window closes

If Garnacho leaves
A striker, LWB and a 10/Winger before the window closes

Anything less than this and they are sabotaging the manager
Given there's a week left .. doubt we see a striker come in. Dorgu as LWB seems like he come, and then Garnacho staying or going would likely drive us bringing in someone like Cunha or not doing it. But yes it's not giving Amorim a chance if we don't sign a CF, as he can't do much when nobody can score
 
If you add Dibbling in as well then yes, however I’m seriously not convinced by Dorgu, another unproven PL player that we are probably paying £10-15m too much for because we are so desperate right now.
If we are buying premiership proven what are the options Robinson, Nyouri maybe? They would also cost a lot more... Neither are quite good enough for me defensively. I don’t get excited about many signings we make and again this summer gone was a fanfare for pretty average players in my opinion as a whole due to the names or clubs they were at…..I think Dorgu though its potential being realised bit by bit and a fair way to go…..will be a top signing. Beyond Hernandez/Mendes/Davies who are all highly unlikely….he is the best left back we can sign I know of personally. Him on the left and Quenda on the right would be pretty transformative to our side pretty quickly and very much so long term
 
Depressingly quite around Casemiro. Seems that him and Rashford will remain until the summer costing us ca 18m in wages.
 
If we are buying premiership proven what are the options Robinson, Nyouri maybe? They would also cost a lot more... Neither are quite good enough for me defensively. I don’t get excited about many signings we make and again this summer gone was a fanfare for pretty average players in my opinion as a whole due to the names or clubs they were at…..I think Dorgu though its potential being realised bit by bit and a fair way to go…..will be a top signing. Beyond Hernandez/Mendes/Davies who are all highly unlikely….he is the best left back we can sign I know of personally. Him on the left and Quenda on the right would be pretty transformative to our side pretty quickly and very much so long term
Love both those left wing back options, I think Amad is perfectly fine rotating between R10/RWB and I could See Tyler Dybling being able to share the workload in both those positions however I think Quenda will be silly money!
 
Strength and conditioning team - we're having to pay €40mn for a LWB because our academy talents are never physically fit for purpose when they reach adulthood and despite everyone being able to see that likes of Amass have all the talent in the world, we're having to spend massive money in the market for a kid thats only a couple of years older and who looks very raw. This essentially closes the door for Amass and forces us to pay huge fees for roles we should be able to supply from the academy for nothing.

I'm far from Rugby's greatest fan but with fewer financial resources, we can see that they can produce physically formidable teenagers. Even at other clubs, it feels that our players are physically behind other clubs such as Chelsea.
 
If we’re not in European completion next year and have fewer games, perhaps we should just shrink the squad to save cash for a season?

Instead of a 23 man squad, we could probably get away with 20 plus a few youngsters if needed.
 
Strength and conditioning team - we're having to pay €40mn for a LWB because our academy talents are never physically fit for purpose when they reach adulthood and despite everyone being able to see that likes of Amass have all the talent in the world, we're having to spend massive money in the market for a kid thats only a couple of years older and who looks very raw. This essentially closes the door for Amass and forces us to pay huge fees for roles we should be able to supply from the academy for nothing.

I'm far from Rugby's greatest fan but with fewer financial resources, we can see that they can produce physically formidable teenagers. Even at other clubs, it feels that our players are physically behind other clubs such as Chelsea.
Because a 17 year old is not physically ready for adult football, we need to look at restructuring the whole academy strength and conditioning.

Then why have Greenwood, Kobbie & Garnacho all come through at 18 in recent years, with Collyer coming through a bit later as he wasn’t physically capable.

You do realize that physical development is not linear?

There are exceptions to the rules like Bellingham or Yamal.

Can you name me how many 16/17 year old play regularly in the PL?
 
If we’re not in European completion next year and have fewer games, perhaps we should just shrink the squad to save cash for a season?

Instead of a 23 man squad, we could probably get away with 20 plus a few youngsters if needed.
Given the current circunstances we should deal with 18 senior players plus youngsters.

2GK
5CB
3WB
3CM
3AM
2ST

Not only reducing wages, not wasting so much on fees, but also promoting the value of the team.

Garnacho is a good example. I do understand most fans not wanting the sale, but that is thinking United in a different reality that it is today.

For 3 or 4 years, the vision of the club has to change a lot. A question of survival.
 
Because a 17 year old is not physically ready for adult football, we need to look at restructuring the whole academy strength and conditioning.

Then why have Greenwood, Kobbie & Garnacho all come through at 18 in recent years, with Collyer coming through a bit later as he wasn’t physically capable.

You do realize that physical development is not linear?

There are exceptions to the rules like Bellingham or Yamal.

Can you name me how many 16/17 year old play regularly in the PL?
Those players are physical outliers. Greenwood wasn't training with a professional club for over a year, went to Spain and was the best player in his team.

16/17 year olds don't play regularly because they're not good enough apart from very rare cases. My problem isn't with our players not having the quality to compete at that age, but its that when boys are good enough, they're not getting opportunities because of their physical levels. This shouldn't be controversial. They're in a professional football academy in which the goal is to prepare players for senior football.
 
I am trying very hard to wear my common sense hat here but I just don't get it.

Transfer window opens in January meaning THAT is when business can be done. Why can we not plan and prepare our purchases and sales BEFORE the transfer window and then complete the transactions in the window??

Instead it appears that we only seem to start talking to clubs and players in the window itself which then inevitgably involves negotiations, contract talks etc.
 
I said thd same. Unfortunately only straightforward deals work like that, and none of our deals are straightforward.

We are on record as saying we need to sell to buy and that is the reality of the situation. In none of the potential deals we are talking about are we dealing from a posiion of strength.

We have out of form over priced players we want to move. We are massively constrained financially, more so than other clubs seeking players. We are playing terrible football and are unlikely to have european football next season.

Any negotiations are going to be opportunistic in nature I guess.
 
I said thd same. Unfortunately only straightforward deals work like that, and none of our deals are straightforward.

We are on record as saying we need to sell to buy and that is the reality of the situation. In none of the potential deals we are talking about are we dealing from a posiion of strength.

We have out of form over priced players we want to move. We are massively constrained financially, more so than other clubs seeking players. We are playing terrible football and are unlikely to have european football next season.

Any negotiations are going to be opportunistic in nature I guess.

I totally get that but can we not line up potential suitors before the transfer window too?
 
I am trying very hard to wear my common sense hat here but I just don't get it.

Transfer window opens in January meaning THAT is when business can be done. Why can we not plan and prepare our purchases and sales BEFORE the transfer window and then complete the transactions in the window??

Instead it appears that we only seem to start talking to clubs and players in the window itself which then inevitgably involves negotiations, contract talks etc.
Isn't this to be expected based on how the club is run?
 
Well considering Dorgu only extended his contract late last year it shows we obviously were not in talks with him or seriously considering buying him. It’s horrendous planning.
 
I said thd same. Unfortunately only straightforward deals work like that, and none of our deals are straightforward.

We are on record as saying we need to sell to buy and that is the reality of the situation. In none of the potential deals we are talking about are we dealing from a posiion of strength.

We have out of form over priced players we want to move. We are massively constrained financially, more so than other clubs seeking players. We are playing terrible football and are unlikely to have european football next season.

Any negotiations are going to be opportunistic in nature I guess.

Yeah we are operating from weak position and see that being the case until PSR significantly improves
 
I think it's quite clear that nobody will be coming in, tbh.

No it's not. Good chances we're getting someone actually.

It's beginning to look like that. We'll probably get some loan signing and make it look like that was our target all along

I still stand by what I've said. Just don't see any tangible links or any movement anywhere, except players going out. We've got a week, so we'll see. I'm not optimistic in the slightest.
 
When was the last time we made a successful signing for one of the front four positions?

I'm going to guess it was summer 2020 with Cavani and Amad.
 
I'm going to guess it was summer 2020 with Cavani and Amad.

Yeah goals and a good attack can mask a lot of deficiencies. This was why I was on the Olise bandwagon all summer. We got kinda lucky with Amad. The fact that he'd fit in as well as he did wasn't a given at the beginning of the season and we still chose not to strengthen in attack.
 
Two wing backs and a striker please. And an extra player that can play that LW #10 spot. It's a joke how perfectly a player like Wirtz would suit this system.
 
A LWB, a temp dictating athletic CM, 2 quality dynamic 10s, with Amad going RWB, a complete striker who can hold up play and create there own chances, before we even look at upgrading GK or LCB.
 
a goal scoring attacking midfielder would be my number one target alongside the LWB, our attack is just completely impotent, only Bruno and Amad offer any threat.
Not sure I follow the logic of why we need an attacking midfielder when our two attacking midfielders are the only ones with attacking threat. Surely, that implies the other attacking roles are where we need to add goals.
 
Not sure I follow the logic of why we need an attacking midfielder when our two attacking midfielders are the only ones with attacking threat. Surely, that implies the other attacking roles are where we need to add goals.

Amad already looks played into the ground, we need more options, 2-3 players fro those 2 positions is not enough, whereas I don't see buying a striker now realistic, considering we have two, both quite recently bought, for 1 position. Of course would also like a new striker.

Any targets in mind?

Cunha seems the most obvious one, could play as a striker too