Constant sackings isn’t having high standards, having standards is not accepting seasons like this season and the rubbish served up by the manager and players combined.
No-one is accepting it.
Constant sackings isn’t having high standards, having standards is not accepting seasons like this season and the rubbish served up by the manager and players combined.
Barcelona won far less CLs, and at least two were fair, IMO. Real Madrid has won 6 CL titles, and I don't remember many knockout ties or finals that they won by outplaying opponent.
What about the fact that both Barcelona and Real Madrid were able to negotiate their own TV contracts for almost two decades?
Atletico Madrid, even after winning La Liga, were still getting smaller TV rights revenue than the bottom-placed team in the PL. It took until 2016 for the new laws to come into place to make things more even, and even then, the effects of it wasn't felt until 2019.
All those years getting more lucrative TV deals giving them a huge advantage in consistently being able to outbid other clubs.
All those years being given a running head start and thus helping them both finish in CL spots more easily.
The likes of Valencia winning La Liga twice in three years and not being able to build on it due to not being able to keep up with Real and Barca's TV rights advantage.
I'm not saying Madrid didn't do what they needed to do to win the CL's; I'm just saying that they qualified as many times as they did, and built the teams that they have on the back of pure and unadulterated sanctioned inequality from La Liga.
I rarely see United kits on youngsters outside of Manchester these days. Take it back 10-15 years, and anywhere I went, here or abroad, there'd be a dead certainty of United tops in the sea of people.
City, PSG, Messi/Miami and Ronaldo kits are more prevalent amongst the young and 'neutral' ground abroad these days, from what I see, with smatterings of Real, Barca, Munich and the odd United thrown in.
PSG look to have gobbled up a massive portion of the market through their collaborative efforts with Jordan and Nike; easily the 'coolest' items among the young football wise, I think.
I remember they getting battered in a final vs Athletico Madrid, Ramos was a hero keeping them in it.
Barcelona won far less CLs, and at least two were fair, IMO. Real Madrid has won 6 CL titles, and I don't remember many knockout ties or finals that they won by outplaying opponent.
That's the wrong final, they had 2. Athletico had RM defending most of the game, but heavily ran out of steam in the last quarter ISH of the game.This is not true, RM had 61% possesion, 21 shots and 12 on target. Atletico had 39% possession, 10 shots and 6 on target. Atletico had more saves (6 to 3) and committed way more fouls (27 to 19).
Atletico were getting away with an incredibly lame final win until Ramos righted the wrong.
Hard to argue against this since "outplaying the opponent" is a nebulous concept but RM have convincingly won against their opponents many times. They beat Juve 4-1 and Atletico 4-1 in two finals. Beat Bayern 0-4 away and beat them at their own stadium three consecutive times. Beat Atletico by two goals in 2017, PSG by 3 in 2018.
The other times against tough opponents the matches are more balanced and could go either way.
2022 CL is the only one where RM were comprehensively outplayed and won the ties/matches anyway.
Not really. They had us under the kosh early in the second half, otherwise it was the usual game of madrid attack vs atletico defence. Funnily they didn't score in their good period, they scored when we were well on top and had come very close to the second multiple times. First half they were nonexistent and extra time too. Second half was all in all evenThat's the wrong final, they had 2. Athletico had RM defending most of the game, but heavily ran out of steam in the last quarter ISH of the game.
Ramos was amazing at stopping their chances, last man defence. And yes Athletico were easily the better team if it wasn't for him.Not really. They had us under the kosh early in the second half, otherwise it was the usual game of madrid attack vs atletico defence. Funnily they didn't score in their good period, they scored when we were well on top and had come very close to the second multiple times. First half they were nonexistent and extra time too. Second half was all in all even
That was the worst RM to win the CL. If you recall, Zidane was appointed mid-season and he had no experience in top level football. In those circumstances t's fine not to be at your best IMO.Ramos was amazing at stopping their chances, last man defence. And yes Athletico were easily the better team if it wasn't for him.
While that is true, it doesn't explain everythingGreat recruitment...
"Hence doing better in cup competitions than in the league, where defined system and consistency are more important."
I think too much is made of this.
RM won the league and CL in 2017 and 2022. If they win CL this year then it's another double.
In 2014 they were 3 pts from 1st and in 2016 they were 1 pt from 1st. These are trivial differences that mean nothing. In 2016 it was because of a bad managerial appointment that was rectified mid-season.
2018 is the only CL win out of the last 5 where RM were inconsistent in the league and good in the CL. And tbh they were not that good in the CL either but the competition was middling.
RM also doesn't do well in the domestic cup.
While that is true, it doesn't explain everything
The keeper was Lunin, Their CBs were Nacho and Rudiger, remember how Chelsea fans felt Rudiger was their problem? Mendy, Brahim Diaz Joselu some of these guys their careers before Madrid was not much
Same thing others who left Madrid like Asensio James DiMaria Khedira
Their careers after Madrid were not that great
But the moment they put on that white jersey of Madrid they turn to something else
I think it was true at the beginning but that changed under Tuchel. Before Rüdiger often was on the bench and overall didn't perform great, once Tuchel arrived he turned into their best defender and stayed on that level when he moved to Real.I don't think that's very true about Rudiger, vast majority of Chelsea fans I know were dying to keep him but he just left on a free transfer with Madrid calling and uncertainty with Abramovich delayed contracts,
I'd say that era was a bit of an exception. Because afterward everyone always hoped a bad domestic season could be saved with a CL title and it never really happened (until 2018).They won the Champions League in 2000 when 5th though. In 1998 they were 4th and 2002 they were 3rd. Even back to the first days of the European Cup, Barcelona won leagues while they won ECs. Not very relevant to their playing style today, but it's their heritage.
RM were more dominant in that era when EC started. Barcelona won leagues in 59 and 60, then nothing until 73. RM won in 54, 55, 57, 58, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65.Even back to the first days of the European Cup, Barcelona won leagues while they won ECs. Not very relevant to their playing style today, but it's their heritage.
115 charges FC outplayed them completely. Should've been smashed but Real Madrid somehow came through, thankfully. I hate them btw but ofcourse 115 charges are second only to the scum from Liverpool.I have no idea. A team with that starting 11 should not be beating teams such as Man City and Munich.
The one thing about Barca though is that every year they WON the CL, they were the best club in Europe and Spain, and dominated pretty much every opponent. With Real Madrid, they've often won the CL without being the best in their country and narrowly squeezed past the likes of Bayern, Atletico and 115 charges FC with ALOT of fortune going their way.You yourselves are not without your share of controversies either, for example wasn't your first cl in the new format achived through an offside goal in 97?
More than Ronaldo, it is about Ferguson leaving. Ronaldo couldn't do anything at Juventus because he is a player who needs service and with the garbage we've been putting out since Fergue left, no chance we win the CL.It doesn’t hurt that so many South American, Spanish and Portuguese players see it as the absolute pinnacle to play for them. Imagine if Ronaldo didn’t have that idea in his head. We’d probably have another CL or two.
Being serious for a moment here: no. Benitez was untenable. United would have sacked him too, perhaps even earlier than we did. Flo actually dithered a bit before pulling the trigger because it was HIS screw up, he'd been the one to sack Ancelotti when literally everyone else was telling him not to, he decided to hire Benitez when literally everyone knew it would be a disaster. Your situation with managers post SAF is very different - at no point did you have a CL winning squad in its prime lead by a top 10 player of all time coming a CL semifinal and a 92 points league campaign while being shredded by injuries. The underperformance under Benitez was too gross and obvious for anyone to defend him
Until the last couple decades, that was the norm. In 68 editions of the CL, 31 times the winner also won the league the same season. And of those 31, 11 happened since 2006.They won the Champions League in 2000 when 5th though. In 1998 they were 4th and 2002 they were 3rd. Even back to the first days of the European Cup, Barcelona won leagues while they won ECs. Not very relevant to their playing style today, but it's their heritage.
Ah the favourite argument whenever PL clubs do badly... "the PL is so good and intense, our clubs are too exhausted to compete in Europe"A lot of this is the intensity of the premier league. City are a better side than them by some distance but at the end of the season it’s pretty gruelling in England.
Allows Modric for example to have a great year and stay fresh for the end. If he played for United he would get slaughtered in the media for not running enough.
His body would not hold up in England currently over a full season like we’ve seen with Casemiro - nor should it we would demand him to play too high intensity for his style.
This Madrid side aren’t nearly as good as Liverpool either at their peak under Klopp.
They lack the intensity most games but obviously them and Bayern (who probably aren’t as good as Arsenal) this season get to conserve more energy for big knockout games.
The FA needs to sort this problem out. Either make larger squads with more money or less games.
Then we would see Madrid & Bayern facing equal / better better sides on a more even level fitness wise come end of the season.
Look at Sancho for example. Players who conserve energy all season suddenly can come into their own.
The weather helps to recover also in Spain must be said. I think it’s a more relaxing lifestyle overall and gives a good work / life balance which can give a slight edge after a full season.
There was one team in that game that looked like a great ad for PEDs, and it wasn't Madrid...A lot of this is the intensity of the premier league. City are a better side than them by some distance but at the end of the season it’s pretty gruelling in England.
He has played a grand total of 2000 minutes, most of it off the bench. That's the equivalent of 22 games. Half his appearances are of >30 minutes spells. He's fresh because Ancelotti has been very careful about managing his minutesAllows Modric for example to have a great year and stay fresh for the end. If he played for United he would get slaughtered in the media for not running enough.
I watch La Liga it’s factual. Getafe - Barcelona the other day was more like a premier league game it was great but on the whole yes Spain is poor right now.Ah the favourite argument whenever PL clubs do badly... "the PL is so good and intense, our clubs are too exhausted to compete in Europe"
Because winning the PL hasn't been a stroll for them after Klopp's peak Liverpool burned out?I watch La Liga it’s factual. Getafe - Barcelona the other day was more like a premier league game it was great but on the whole yes Spain is poor right now.
Imagine City playing in La Liga? It would be an absolute stroll for them right now to pick up that title each season.
Easy to manage minutes when you aren’t fighting for 3 points each week and players getting injuries left right and centre.There was one team in that game that looked like a great ad for PEDs, and it wasn't Madrid...
He has played a grand total of 2000 minutes, most of it off the bench. That's the equivalent of 22 games. Half his appearances are of >30 minutes spells. He's fresh because Ancelotti has been very careful about managing his minutes
A lot of this is the intensity of the premier league. City are a better side than them by some distance but at the end of the season it’s pretty gruelling in England.
Allows Modric for example to have a great year and stay fresh for the end. If he played for United he would get slaughtered in the media for not running enough.
His body would not hold up in England currently over a full season like we’ve seen with Casemiro - nor should it we would demand him to play too high intensity for his style.
This Madrid side aren’t nearly as good as Liverpool either at their peak under Klopp.
They lack the intensity most games but obviously them and Bayern (who probably aren’t as good as Arsenal) this season get to conserve more energy for big knockout games.
The FA needs to sort this problem out. Either make larger squads with more money or less games.
Then we would see Madrid & Bayern facing equal / better better sides on a more even level fitness wise come end of the season.
Look at Sancho for example. Players who conserve energy all season suddenly can come into their own.
The weather helps to recover also in Spain must be said. I think it’s a more relaxing lifestyle overall and gives a good work / life balance which can give a slight edge after a full season.
Luckily for us those factors make a normal 7/10 chance of a City victory to 50/50 sometimes. Meant Madrid have twice saved our blushes in the past 3 years or else City could well have have equalled our European cup record easily.
Exactly burned out because they played better football most weeks at a higher intensity. Don’t see Madrid burning out… I wonder why?Because winning the PL hasn't been a stroll for them after Klopp's peak Liverpool burned out?
City were just ridiculous in 2023 so no Madrid weren’t beating them. Injuries this season evened the odds although again it was a lucky win but it’s football and that happens.Oh so why didn't the great PL intensity not affect City in 2023, Chelsea 2021, Liverpool 2019? The PL so intense that every 2 years it helps PL be good to win CL but they over do it, it's so intense winning it two times in a row isn't possible and PL needs to recover for a session. The PL will be back to win CL next year. Congrats you've cracked the formula.
That amazing intensity PL has to endure in the league season stopped De Bruyne missing a sitter against Madrid in the second leg to finish then off. The great intensity caused the lack of defending by Arsenal on Kimmich for the winning Bayern goal.
38 year old Modric, who is a come off the bench player for Madrid now, wouldn't last in the PL but of course the legendary James Milner and Ashley Young would. You've figured it all out.
Point is City are not burning out, are strolling through the PL season after season and were massively physically dominant against Real, just not clinical enough. There is zero indication that they can't cope with the intensity of the league and still be competitive. On the contrary it looked like Madrid couldn't cope with City's intensity.Exactly burned out because they played better football most weeks at a higher intensity. Don’t see Madrid burning out… I wonder why?
Yeah I agree with all that. City are a far more well rounded and overall a stronger side as it stands than Real but on a one off game the Spanish side can perhaps prepare more for said physicality to make up the difference a little.Point is City are not burning out, are strolling through the PL season after season and were massively physically dominant against Real, just not clinical enough. There is zero indication that they can't cope with the intensity of the league and still be competitive. On the contrary it looked like Madrid couldn't cope with City's intensity.
We muddied my argument for the Premier League a lot though earlier in the season I will admit.Point is City are not burning out, are strolling through the PL season after season and were massively physically dominant against Real, just not clinical enough. There is zero indication that they can't cope with the intensity of the league and still be competitive. On the contrary it looked like Madrid couldn't cope with City's intensity.
I think that's true. But PL teams have both more money to sign those additional players and have more matches to actually use them, so I don't see that as a big problem. Maybe my view is to simplistic in this regard, but that's how I feel.I still think premier league sides need larger squads than their European counterparts if you wanted to build a dynasty in Europe and fully focus on it like Madrid have and Bayern to an extent each season.
They won the PL basically without De Bruyne once, so probably. 98 points, beating the european champions to the titleEasy to manage minutes when you aren’t fighting for 3 points each week and players getting injuries left right and centre.
I wonder even if City could win La Liga league without Haaland and De Bruyne? I reckon they would comfortably.
Easy to manage minutes when you aren’t fighting for 3 points each week and players getting injuries left right and centre.