Westminster Politics

Fingeredmouse said:
This is at the absolute heart of the matter. Because the system is set up to enable those with wealth and property to create more wealth and gain more property at the expensive of those who work. This underlying philosophy is woven through the policies of all UK governments since the 80s.
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If you mean the 1580s, then correct. It's always been that way because if you penalise people for having wealth then they stop trying to acquire it, which is bad for everybody.

The system needs to focus on all sides equally, what that means is collecting more from the bottom end, by collecting more taxes from a higher minimum earning level, and at the top end not by taxing high earners but by cutting out the loopholes of those who use schemes to underpay. The chunk of people in the middle already pay more than their equal portion.
 
11101 said:
If you mean the 1580s, then correct. It's always been that way because if you penalise people for having wealth then they stop trying to acquire it, which is bad for everybody.

The system needs to focus on all sides equally, what that means is collecting more from the bottom end, by collecting more taxes from a higher minimum earning level, and at the top end not by taxing high earners but by cutting out the loopholes of those who use schemes to underpay. The chunk of people in the middle already pay more than their equal portion.
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It's not about penalising people for having wealth, but taxing to support society in a fair manner. One of the loopholes, as you describe it, is the taxation of income disproportionally to revenue from the various types of capital gains.
 
largelyworried said:
To be fair there is a real issue here - with an ageing population, healthcare costs grow faster and faster every year, while the number of peak tax payers (in terms of income tax and NICs) falls. Which means that people of working age have to pay more and more tax to cover the costs of those not of working age.

We have to solve that issue somehow. Whatever we do will involve changing the status quo, and I'm sure some people will be worse off as a result. But the alternative is to do nothing and leave our kids to deal with a tax and pensions crisis to go with the climate crisis, housing crisis and debt crisis we're leaving them.
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Yes I understand all of that. But the absolute key to solving this systematic problem is not with forcing older people to downsize. Or trying to tax them more in order to receive their pathetic state pension.
But by increasing the national GDP.
And you will only do that by as you say, changing the status quo.
As a country, we are making less and less and importing more and more.
That is THE problem. And unless we change that, the current problems will seem tiny going forward.

We are told that Brexit ment that we would be able to make our own decisions; not that I believe a word of that by the way.
So, kick out the useless career politician Business Secretary and replace him with someone who actually knows about manufacturing.
And make manufacturing or making things here in the UK a national priority. And fundamentally increase our GDP year on year.

Creating wealth and distributing it fairly is the way to make sure that we don't have to demonize the old people. Rather to raise the living standards of us all.
 
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"feckin get in Jeremy lad! Spending cuts and tax rises. You smashed it mate, bosh!!"
 
November 2011 - the UK faces a lost decade of growth:

https://www.ft.com/content/f1b5d790-1a84-11e1-ae14-00144feabdc0

"The big facts are that the UK is set for a lost decade and a longer period of stringency than expected. The government’s position is that there is no alternative. That has now become a self-fulfilling prophecy. So blame foreigners: that always works."
 
Not once does Hunt say brexit.
I am so frustrated. The entire country is pretending an elephant is not in the room.
 
Adisa said:
Darren Cnut
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Net migration is an interesting one. On one hand, why would more people want to come here if we're the economic basket case of Europe? On the other, is it that people are far less likely to emigrate due to the end of free movement with the EU? (Was the latter ever that high to begin with?)

Find it weird to see the figures increase, despite there being worsening living standards and seasonal labourers drying up (are they counted in migration stats?).

Darren Grimes is a cnut fyi, just to add that in there.
 
Spark said:
Net migration is an interesting one. On one hand, why would more people want to come here if we're the economic basket case of Europe? On the other, is it that people are far less likely to emigrate due to the end of free movement with the EU? (Was the latter ever that high to begin with?)

Find it weird to see the figures increase, despite there being worsening living standards and seasonal labourers drying up (are they counted in migration stats?).

Darren Grimes is a cnut fyi, just to add that in there.
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It won't be Europeans coming over...

Shit as the UK might be it's still a hell of a lot better than many countries in the world and people want to come here, especially those with family connections. Just don't expect much highly skilled labour to arrive.
 
Spark said:
Net migration is an interesting one. On one hand, why would more people want to come here if we're the economic basket case of Europe? On the other, is it that people are far less likely to emigrate due to the end of free movement with the EU? (Was the latter ever that high to begin with?)

Find it weird to see the figures increase, despite there being worsening living standards and seasonal labourers drying up (are they counted in migration stats?).

Darren Grimes is a cnut fyi, just to add that in there.
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As the guy above has said, it’s not Europeans coming. IIRC it’s mostly a combination of African and Indians coming over, which is putting Suella Braverman on a collision course with Sunak over any potential trade deal with India.


Adisa said:
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Gee, I wonder why Ireland is at the top of that projection…real head-scratcher!
 
Jericholyte2 said:
As the guy above has said, it’s not Europeans coming. IIRC it’s mostly a combination of African and Indians coming over, which is putting Suella Braverman on a collision course with Sunak over any potential trade deal with India.




Gee, I wonder why Ireland is at the top of that projection…real head-scratcher!
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It's because we're cooler than you.
 
So what have we to look forward to next year.
Energy prices going up from April from the so called average of £2500 by another £500.
Inflation eating into income by over 9%.
And council tax going up by about 5%.
So let's eat drink and be merry at Christmas, assuming you can afford to put the cooker on.
And make sure you ask father Christmas for a pair of gloves, hot water bottle and a heavy coat.
 
That'sHernandez said:
COVID
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Austerity doesn't work. It shrinks the economy and lowers standards of living / raises poverty.

Intelligent and strategic investment in the right areas drives growth. Some public investment some private incentives but not ideological privatisation and removal or reduction of all state services, it doesn't work for anyone except friends of the Tories (see PPE, track and trace, private health care and dental providers etc).
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Austerity doesn't work. It shrinks the economy and lowers standards of living / raises poverty.

Intelligent and strategic investment in the right areas drives growth. Some public investment some private incentives but not ideological privatisation and removal or reduction of all state services, it doesn't work for anyone except friends of the Tories (see PPE, track and trace, private health care and dental providers etc).
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No argument here :)
 
11101 said:
if you penalise people for having wealth then they stop trying to acquire it, which is bad for everybody.
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This is pure rubbish, unless you are referring to Elon Musk, who seems intent on making himself 44 billion dollars poorer!
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
This is rubbish. You are not taking wealth away simply taking taking a taxable percentage. Still leaving healthy profits.
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Actually you are right, it is rubbish. I've lived in a couple of places with wealth tax. People don't stop acquiring it. They hide it.

I'm actually all for a wealth tax as long as its fairly applied to all.
 
11101 said:
Actually you are right, it is rubbish. I've lived in a couple of places with wealth tax. People don't stop acquiring it. They hide it.

I'm actually all for a wealth tax as long as its fairly applied to all.
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The problem is that people that earn millions do not work a relative amount harder than people that earn £25k - £50k, in a lot of cases they are earning these figures off the back of or at the expense of these people.

Why should CEOs earn 200x what the lowest full time worker at the same company earns? They could half it, still earn more than they could reasonably spend and offer not insignificant raises to people in their company but they don’t.

Then you have the issue of landlordism. Our economy is built on the housing market. A market which encourages buy to let which essentially means that people cannot afford to buy a house for themselves but can afford to buy someone else’s house for them. The landlord then enjoys passive income which avoids income tax.

This idea that people accrue wealth from their own hard work without the help of the society they have accrued the wealth in is totally wrong and frankly perverse.
 
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11101 said:
Actually you are right, it is rubbish. I've lived in a couple of places with wealth tax. People don't stop acquiring it. They hide it.

I'm actually all for a wealth tax as long as its fairly applied to all.
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They will hide it anyway. That's why tax regulation needs to be watertight and implemented correctly.

Instead we have politicians with the same ideology you have which doesn't work.
 
I miss Liz Truss, so much.

It was comedy gold on a daily basis.

If we have to have an equally inept and corrupt government (which clearly we do), it should at least be funny and offer genuine entertainment.

I genuinely miss her. Who’s with me?
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I miss Liz Truss, so much.

It was comedy gold on a daily basis.

If we have to have an equally inept and corrupt government (which clearly we do), it should at least be funny and offer genuine entertainment.

I genuinely miss her. Who’s with me?
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Would you pay £5k per 44 days for the privilege of having her back?
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I miss Liz Truss, so much.

It was comedy gold on a daily basis.

If we have to have an equally inept and corrupt government (which clearly we do), it should at least be funny and offer genuine entertainment.

I genuinely miss her. Who’s with me?
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That's probably the most disappointing thing about Sunak, I wasn't expecting a revolutionary PM by any means but I thought we'd atleast finally get some entry level competence.

On another note, when will the uncomfortable truth that the Tories didn't give themselves a majority be addressed?
 
Pexbo said:
The problem is that people that earn millions do not work a relative amount harder than people that earn £25k - £50k, in a lot of cases they are earning these figures off the back of or at the expense of these people.

Why should CEOs earn 200x what the lowest full time worker at the same company earns? They could half it, still earn more than they could reasonably spend and offer not insignificant raises to people in their company but they don’t.

Then you have the issue of landlordism. Our economy is built on the housing market. A market which encourages buy to let which essentially means that people cannot afford to buy a house for themselves but can afford to buy someone else’s house for them. The landlord then enjoys passive income which avoids income tax.

This idea that people accrue wealth from their own hard work without the help of the society they have accrued the wealth in is totally wrong and frankly perverse.
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Landlords still have to pay income tax on any rental income. The ‘passive income’ doesn’t avoid income tax.

Agree with the rest of your point though and I’ll add - our economy is geared towards taking on debt to succeed. Which feeds the capitalistic cycle.
 
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