Westminster Politics

We have a prime minister who doesn't even have the political capital to sack a security guard.
 
For someone so blatantly incompetent, May has a real talent for appointing the very last people you'd want in their positions...looks more like a plan than incompetence.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Have you actually read the article in full?

On occasion, a headline is intended to mislead the reader (its happened to me certainly).
Click to expand...

No it isn't and I quote:

An emergency junior doctor at Worcestershire Royal Hospital said he could not transfer her to the resuscitation room because the department was full.
 
Jo Johnson's been moved from Universities and Toby Young's resigned from the Office for Students.

Today is a surprisingly good day for academia amongst the recent torrent of shite. A shit day for the trains who have to deal with the bumbling incompetence of BoJo's clone and I'm sure normal service will be resumed soon, but still.
 
Last edited:
WackyWengerWorld said:
No it isn't and I quote:

An emergency junior doctor at Worcestershire Royal Hospital said he could not transfer her to the resuscitation room because the department was full.
Click to expand...

You're just going to ignore the individual and repeated errors admitted to by medical staff? I know it doesn't suit the Mirror's agenda here (or your own), but they are the primary contributing factors from what i can see in the reporting.
 
Last edited:
Xeno said:
Maybe I don't have the intellectual capacity to reason otherwise, but I agree with a lot of what he wrote in this article,; does that make me a bad person?

Also, he's far too obsessed with big tits.
Click to expand...
Ignore me, I hadn't got to the bit about actual eugenics.
 
Silva said:
Which part is misleading?
Click to expand...

Because neither the headline nor the slant of reporting places the emphasis on the ultimately fatal mistakes by doctors handling her care.

While central government has done wrong by the NHS and must improve for the sake of so many people, this is not one of those instances. This is a tragedy put to cynical usage by a tabloid newspaper.
 
Last edited:
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Because neither the headline nor the slant of reporting places the emphasis on the ultimately fatal mistakes by doctors handling her care.

While centrla government has done wrong by the NHS and must improve for the sake of so many people, this is not one of those instances. This is a tragedy put to cynical usage by a tabloid newspaper.
Click to expand...
So, it's okay that she died in a corridor because a doctor might have been responsible for her death?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Because neither the headline nor the slant of reporting places the emphasis on the ultimately fatal mistakes by doctors handling her care.

While centrla government has done wrong by the NHS and must improve for the sake of so many people, this is not one of those instances. This is a tragedy put to cynical usage by a tabloid newspaper.
Click to expand...

Bloody newspapers.

Rape victim who overdosed on diet pills did not receive appropriate care because A&E was overcrowded, inquest hears
Opening paragraph said:
A rape victim who sent a final text about overdosing on diet pills did not receive appropriate care because A&E was overcrowded, an inquest heard.
Click to expand...


Rape victim dies on hospital trolley after diet pill overdose
Opening paragraph said:
A young woman receiving mental health treatment after being raped died on a hospital trolley having overdosed on diet pills, her parents have said.
Click to expand...


Rape victim died on hospital trolley in corridor after overdose of diet pills 'because a&E was overcrowded'
Opening paragraph said:
A vulnerable young rape victim who died after taking an overdose of online diet pills in a hospital corridor 'because the A&E department was too overcrowded', an inquest has heard.
Click to expand...


Rape victim Bethany Shipsey died of overdose on trolley
Opening paragraph said:
A rape victim who took an overdose of diet pills and died on a hospital trolley did not receive appropriate treatment because of overcrowding in A&E, an inquest has been told.
Click to expand...


Inquest hears woman died of diet pill overdose in 'overwhelmed' A&E
Opening paragraph said:
A woman who had taken an overdose of diet pills died after being treated in a troubled A&E department on a day described as “overwhelming” by staff.
Click to expand...
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Because neither the headline nor the slant of reporting places the emphasis on the ultimately fatal mistakes by doctors handling her care.

While central government has done wrong by the NHS and must improve for the sake of so many people, this is not one of those instances. This is a tragedy put to cynical usage by a tabloid newspaper.
Click to expand...

Wtf?! She died on a trolley because of chronic underfunding which has left doctors trying to work in completely unacceptable conditions. Trying to blame the doctors is completely repulsive.
 
Silva said:
So, it's okay that she died in a corridor because a doctor might have been responsible for her death?
Click to expand...

No, it's certainly not okay. But it was the mistakes made by multiple doctors which played the greatest role in her death.
 
What a shambles this reshuffle has been.

Downing street earlier informed the media a photo shoot of the female whips would be happening outside Downing street, but its been abruptly cancelled.
 
Kentonio said:
Wtf?! She died on a trolley because of chronic underfunding which has left doctors trying to work in completely unacceptable conditions. Trying to blame the doctors is completely repulsive.
Click to expand...

Do you think that the decisions taken throughout the case were thr right ones? We shouldn't look the other way in such instances just because we like the idea of an NHS, or that the apparent error is attributed to a doctor. A crowded A&E unit was by no means the only contributing factor; indeed, things ought never to have reached that point. We could perhaps talk about the efficacy of our mental health system, however that doesn't grab headlines to the same degree i guess.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
No, it's certainly not okay. But it was the mistakes made by multiple doctors which played the greatest role in her death.
Click to expand...

Last year two people died waiting on trolleys in the same week at this hospital and the hospital was forced to undergo an investigation as a result. Here is another article listing Worcestershire Acute Trust's apparently well known struggles with patient demand. Staff members describe the hospital as also being overwhelmed on this current occasion while the family claim she wasn't seen by a doctor for over 1 1/2 hours and was delayed entering resuscitation. All in all there is a clear picture forming of a hospital and staff struggling to adequately perform under pressure.

On this occasion a doctor was unfamiliar with the substance used in the overdose and neglected to read up on it - something the doctor recognises he should have done. He is mitigating this fact by pointing out his situation at the time: One of the busiest moments of the year in an overwhelmed department known to be struggling with patient demand. The suggestion that we should focus on his mistake rather than taking into account the context is pretty strange to me.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Do you think that the decisions taken throughout the case were thr right ones? We shouldn't look the other way in such instances just because we like the idea of an NHS, or that the apparent error is attributed to a doctor. A crowded A&E unit was by no means the only contributing factor; indeed, things ought never to have reached that point. We could perhaps talk about the efficacy of our mental health system, however that doesn't grab headlines to the same degree i guess.
Click to expand...

Do you not think that understaffing, underfunding, and overworking may well be contributing factors to doctors making mistakes?
 
As i see it we've got a chronology of seemingly basic failings by those assigned to her care, some of which pre-date the arrival at A&E:

He said: "I became aware that there was a suicide pact between her and her ex-partner.

"I came to the view she had an emotionally unstable personality disorder."

After meeting her again in January 2017, Dr Chandrappa said 24 red and yellow diet pills were found in her jacket.

Dr Chandrappa continued: "I had spoken to her about the dangers of using the diet pills.

"Ms Shipsey had informed us they were the pills she bought earlier, had stopped using them and had no intention of using them further.

"In the same week we became aware that she was getting threatening messages."
Click to expand...

Bethany - who was on home leave from a psychiatric ward at the time of her death -

But the 21-year-old from Worcester was "not considered a suicide risk" by mental health doctors - despite previously taking 14 overdoses.
Click to expand...

Under questioning from Michael Walsh, representing Ms Shipsey's parents, Doug, 52, and Carole, 57, the doctor said he should have consulted the Poisons department in order to fully understand a drug he had "never seen before".

Dr Niroumand also said he did not use the database called "Toxbase" to learn about the drug because the files he needed had been given to him by a nurse.

During Dr Niroumand's evidence, coroner Geraint Williams asked him: "When you do not know the drug, surely it is even more important to get specialist advice?"
Click to expand...


There may also be acute resourcing issues at the hospital, i'm not dismissing that as an additional factor entirely. Yet it does future patients no good at all if we shy away from the possibility that individuals are either inadequately trained or incapable for their positions. It shouldn't be a form of sacrilege to suggest such, nor interpreted as condemnation of others.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
There may also be acute resourcing issues at the hospital, i'm not dismissing that as an additional factor entirely. Yet it does future patients no good at all if we shy away from the possibility that individuals are either inadequately trained or incapable for their positions. It shouldn't be a form of sacrilege to suggest such, nor interpreted as condemnation of others.
Click to expand...

The trust and hospital has been demonstrated to be systematically failing in its ability to handle the number of patients it receives. This is a known failing of this specific trust such that it received a 6 week notice to improve before this latest debacle even occurred - this in relation to two other patients also dying on trolleys while failing to receive adequate treatment. The 'additional factor' appears to be the central issue this hospital has recently faced and as such is always going to be the central feature of any first blush article this particular case receives. This can be seen by noting the headlines common to all newspapers, not just the cynical tabloid. There's nothing cynical about it, it's already a primary focus and concern - as asserted by the NHS watchdog.

It may turn out that all that is just coincidence, that Bethany Shipsey would have died even on a slow day, that the doctor was generally incompetent (not simply feeling the pressure of exceptional circumstances) and that mental health doctors were wrong to assess her in the way that they did. I guess the coroner's report will cover these factors and I'm sympathetic to your view that they deserve reporting on but in my view it is unsurprising, concerning and most newsworthy that she died on an exceptionally busy day in a hospital known to struggle with patient demand, that was sanctioned to improve and where patients have died in similar circumstances in the recent past.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
The trust and hospital has been demonstrated to be systematically failing in its ability to handle the number of patients it receives. This is a known failing of this specific trust such that it received a 6 week notice to improve before this latest debacle even occurred - this in relation to two other patients also dying on trolleys while failing to receive adequate treatment. The 'additional factor' appears to be the central issue this hospital has recently faced and as such is always going to be the central feature of any first blush article this particular case receives. This can be seen by noting the headlines common to all newspapers, not just the cynical tabloid. There's nothing cynical about it, it's already a primary focus and concern - as asserted by the NHS watchdog.

It may turn out that all that is just coincidence, that Bethany Shipsey would have died even on a slow day, that the doctor was generally incompetent (not simply feeling the pressure of exceptional circumstances) and that mental health doctors were wrong to assess her in the way that they did. I guess the coroner's report will cover these factors and I'm sympathetic to your view that they deserve reporting on but in my view it is unsurprising, concerning and most newsworthy that she died on an exceptionally busy day in a hospital known to struggle with patient demand, that was sanctioned to improve and where patients have died in similar circumstances in the recent past.
Click to expand...

Having just been able to read through your Guardian story from last year, the Trust seemed to have leadership issues on many levels, civilian obviously but also clinical. Although it is difficult to add redundancy to the system when the prevailing sentiment leans toward streamlining. Has a nearby A&E unit closed in recent years i wonder?

Regarding the particulars of Ms Shipsay's story: i have most sympathy with the ER doc, as i don't know whether a more senior consultant would have been sought at a better run hospital. The quality of psychiatric care, on the other hand, i would take a very close look at. May, Corbyn, Cameron, Clegg, they've all spoken some nice sounding rhetoric on the mental health provision, yet how much of it is put into practice?
 
What is harder is when someone is elderly and they have to wait on a trolley and they perhaps have dementia. They are already confused as they have been taken from their normal living space and they don’t have a buzzer to tell the nurse if they need the toilet. Nurses are excellent at making sure these people are looked after but it is disorientating for these patients and it’s wrong when they have paid for the NHS their entire lives.
Click to expand...

I live in fear that I will miss a seriously ill patient in that queue and they will die waiting for a space. I fear that I will end up in court and lose my job. But what I worry most about is how on earth I would live knowing a patient died who we could have helped. We are firefighting on a daily basis. Everyone is doing extra, staying hours late after shifts to help.
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/society...d-they-will-die?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook
 
You must log in or register to reply here.