Westminster Politics

villain said:
Were sleep walking into authoriatarianism
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We're bloody jumping around waving flags celebrating it!!! "Woohoo no more pesky BLM protests!!!" - six months later and something happens that they'll want to protest about, they'll be reminded and left with their thumb up the proverbial.

I fecking loathe this country at times!
 
Mogget said:
I wouldn't say sleepwalking. We're moving there willingly as a country because it seems the majority don't give a shit, or even prefer it that way.
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This country is full of people who are willing to suffer, happy to suffer even - if it means that the people who they deem less than them suffer just a bit more than they do.

Jericholyte2 said:
We're bloody jumping around waving flags celebrating it!!! "Woohoo no more pesky BLM protests!!!" - six months later and something happens that they'll want to protest about, they'll be reminded and left with their thumb up the proverbial.

I fecking loathe this country at times!
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Just at times? I loathe it most times lately.
 
FireballXL5 said:
I can't find any mention of this on the BBC website. Not that it's important or anything.
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Norwegian instagram influencers now have to tell you what they've photoshopped: Front page news.

You can now be imprisoned for 10 years for damaging a statue: Tumbleweed.

I wish I could say it's the first time in the last few years I'd thought I was living in an Orwell novel. :(
 
People can moan about the Tories all they like but isn't it about time the elephant in the room is addressed?

They ain't giving themselves majority's, the first chance since the start of the Pandemic that the public had to make their distsin of them official they made them even more untouchable.
 
golden_blunder said:
Oh the people who knowingly voted for the iteration of the Tories is just as bad
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Genuinely think less of friends and family who vote that way now. A few years ago it was just difference of opinion but this iteration is dangerous.
 
Oldyella said:
Genuinely think less of friends and family who vote that way now. A few years ago it was just difference of opinion but this iteration is dangerous.
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When I think of Johnson, JRM, Gove, Hancock it absolutely amazes me that people trusted them with their vote, not just once. They just don’t give a shit until they turn the U.K. back several decades. Just don’t give a shit
 
Dancfc said:
People can moan about the Tories all they like but isn't it about time the elephant in the room is addressed?

They ain't giving themselves majority's, the first chance since the start of the Pandemic that the public had to make their distsin of them official they made them even more untouchable.
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The elephant in the room is the biased media and poor education so people believe it.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
The elephant in the room is the biased media and poor education so people believe it.
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Don't agree.
The elephant in the room is the constant and compulsive lying from the PM and the rest of his despicable party.
Because they lie about almost everything and every day, most people find it difficult to actually determine the truth and the facts.
And if you don't understand what is true and not true, how can you really know what is going on.
So you make subjective judgements instead of objective ones.
The result becomes the death of democracy.
 
Buster15 said:
Because they lie about almost everything and every day, most people find it difficult to actually determine the truth and the facts.
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..." The truth, and what is that?..." (Pontius Pilate, Roman Governor, Judaea.... around 2000 years ago)
 
Kier Stanmer just called the Delta variant "The Johnson Variant" in the commons, this guy is such a poor leader for this Labour government. I still have no idea what his position is on almost anything.
 
markhughes said:
Kier Stanmer just called the Delta variant "The Johnson Variant" in the commons, this guy is such a poor leader for this Labour government. I still have no idea what his position is on almost anything.
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That’s a brilliant line. Should do more of that.
 
Maticmaker said:
..." The truth, and what is that?..." (Pontius Pilate, Roman Governor, Judaea.... around 2000 years ago)
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The truth is the truth. Nothing changes that. Not even something which may or may not have been said 2000 years ago. And quoting something from a character like Pontius Pilate is hardly meaningful in the 21st century.
 
markhughes said:
Kier Stanmer just called the Delta variant "The Johnson Variant" in the commons, this guy is such a poor leader for this Labour government. I still have no idea what his position is on almost anything.
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Weak
 
Step One - give people the bare minimum to live.
Step Two - keep them teetering on that precipice.
Step Three - give them escapism in the form of light entertainment so they can forget how unfulfilling their lives are (thanks to immigrants and folk on benefits, apparently)
Step Four - make news about politics and current events as mundane and convoluted as possible so the average person will only read the headlines.
Step Five - maintain this status quo and have your rich media mates continue to support you whilst shitting on your opponents for the exact same crap you pull on a regular basis.
 
Buster15 said:
The truth is the truth. Nothing changes that. Not even something which may or may not have been said 2000 years ago. And quoting something from a character like Pontius Pilate is hardly meaningful in the 21st century.
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I would argue the answer to 'What is the truth?.. is an even more important question today, perhaps more than it has ever been, because these days everyone has their own version of what is true.... Oh wait a minute, perhaps that has always been the case, maybe what old PP was getting at?
 
Maticmaker said:
I would argue the answer to 'What is the truth?.. is an even more important question today, perhaps more than it has ever been, because these days everyone has their own version of what is true.... Oh wait a minute, perhaps that has always been the case, maybe what old PP was getting at?
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Ok. You may have noticed, I certainly have that the word 'nuance' has become quite popular and more widely used.
Its has become used to describe variations of a particular subject.

Nothing wrong with that. Apart from where people want to depart from a fact or a particular truth.
It is as if the truth or a proven factual statement no longer matters.

I will fully accept that I am old fashioned.
I was brought up to tell the truth and accept punishment for telling a lie. And those are standards I try to uphold.
So I have zero time for those in authority who make no attempt to be honest and truthful with the people they are there to serve. And the same for those who excuse lying by describing their lies as nuanced.

And please don't think I am saying this about you. I am not.
We don't always agree. And there is nothing wrong with having differing opinions.
 
berbatrick said:
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I'm curious who the Tories will end up having to blame for their continuously intentional feck ups once we no longer have any immigrants in the country? It obviously can't be poor people because we'll all be poor as feck. Even middle class cnuts like me will probably have to buy those sub-£10 bottles of plonk for our dinner parties.

Will they just blame woke people? Like, that's exactly how they'll phrase it. "Woke people with their wokeness are stripping Britain of its Britishness, which is affecting our economy for some reason." And then they just bring out Priti Patel on her fat person wheelbarrow to eat Cornish pasties outside a Ladbrokes to really confuse folk so they have no clue what the feck is going on.
 
Buster15 said:
Ok. You may have noticed, I certainly have that the word 'nuance' has become quite popular and more widely used.
Its has become used to describe variations of a particular subject.

Nothing wrong with that. Apart from where people want to depart from a fact or a particular truth.
It is as if the truth or a proven factual statement no longer matters.

I will fully accept that I am old fashioned.
I was brought up to tell the truth and accept punishment for telling a lie. And those are standards I try to uphold.
So I have zero time for those in authority who make no attempt to be honest and truthful with the people they are there to serve. And the same for those who excuse lying by describing their lies as nuanced.

And please don't think I am saying this about you. I am not.
We don't always agree. And there is nothing wrong with having differing opinions.
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Yes, we have discussed what might be called the 'nuance effect' before and maybe disagree about certain aspects, but that is how we (individually) see things. I believe politicians (in general) give nuance a 'bad name', but lets not go down that route again.

I don't think you are old fashioned as you put it, for wanting the truth, from anyone, not just those who rule us; but the world as an entity these days seems to accept only 'versions' of the truth.Therefore quite often it is depending on who is telling it, proposing it and/or from what perspective they take; hence the fake news we hear about.

My personal complaint is that this situation has come about through a combination of 24/7 rolling news and social media outlets that tend to become 'echo chambers'.

It is a long time since I heard anyone actually just.... read the News. On TV, the News Readers became News Correspondents, who became Specialist News Editors, etc. it is (in my opinion) why people tend to only read and to go off headlines alone, because usually everything that follows is just someones own view of what has happened and what might result from something that has happened.
Of course News editors, reporters, journalists of almost any description probably do have the inside track and hence can make comment , or feel they can... but of course, their code of honour stops them revealing their 'sources'... yes very convenient, you might think?

You are right about excusing lying, and you are right that I don't approve of excusing lying, I am simply saying what I see in front of me, or perceive from what I hear.

An old colleague of mine (fairly cynically) use to tell me "The public don't want the truth...they couldn't live with it". sometimes I think about that and wonder.

I enjoy our exchanges, thank you very much. :)
 
Buster15 said:
Don't agree.
The elephant in the room is the constant and compulsive lying from the PM and the rest of his despicable party.
Because they lie about almost everything and every day, most people find it difficult to actually determine the truth and the facts.
And if you don't understand what is true and not true, how can you really know what is going on.
So you make subjective judgements instead of objective ones.
The result becomes the death of democracy.
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The majority of the UK media do not question these lies. They regurgitate them as fact. The most trusted culprit being the BBC, but there are the obvious suspects such as the Daily Mail, The Sun etc.

I agree on your point re: the compulsive lies from government. They have certainly gone beyond spin and broken all conventions of truth.

Politicians have always been known to lie. Historically the media would highlight this to the voting public. Without that, democracy breaks down.
 
Maticmaker said:
Yes, we have discussed what might be called the 'nuance effect' before and maybe disagree about certain aspects, but that is how we (individually) see things. I believe politicians (in general) give nuance a 'bad name', but lets not go down that route again.

I don't think you are old fashioned as you put it, for wanting the truth, from anyone, not just those who rule us; but the world as an entity these days seems to accept only 'versions' of the truth.Therefore quite often it is depending on who is telling it, proposing it and/or from what perspective they take; hence the fake news we hear about.

My personal complaint is that this situation has come about through a combination of 24/7 rolling news and social media outlets that tend to become 'echo chambers'.

It is a long time since I heard anyone actually just.... read the News. On TV, the News Readers became News Correspondents, who became Specialist News Editors, etc. it is (in my opinion) why people tend to only read and to go off headlines alone, because usually everything that follows is just someones own view of what has happened and what might result from something that has happened.
Of course News editors, reporters, journalists of almost any description probably do have the inside track and hence can make comment , or feel they can... but of course, their code of honour stops them revealing their 'sources'... yes very convenient, you might think?

You are right about excusing lying, and you are right that I don't approve of excusing lying, I am simply saying what I see in front of me, or perceive from what I hear.

An old colleague of mine (fairly cynically) use to tell me "The public don't want the truth...they couldn't live with it". sometimes I think about that and wonder.

I enjoy our exchanges, thank you very much. :)
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And I very much echo your last point. It is clear that you care about things and are not afraid to say what you believe.

The point about the public not wanting to hear the truth is a valid one, regrettably.
It is a human trait that we hear what we want to hear.
But that is why we elect people into positions of responsibility, because they are supposed to be able to see the big picture. And they are supposed to be capable of leading the country, sometimes in a difficult direction. And proper leaders should feel comfortable telling us what we need to hear. Not what we want to hear.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I'm curious who the Tories will end up having to blame for their continuously intentional feck ups once we no longer have any immigrants in the country? It obviously can't be poor people because we'll all be poor as feck. Even middle class cnuts like me will probably have to buy those sub-£10 bottles of plonk for our dinner parties.

Will they just blame woke people? Like, that's exactly how they'll phrase it. "Woke people with their wokeness are stripping Britain of its Britishness, which is affecting our economy for some reason." And then they just bring out Priti Patel on her fat person wheelbarrow to eat Cornish pasties outside a Ladbrokes to really confuse folk so they have no clue what the feck is going on.
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Labour tried beating them to the travelling community blame game, so they'll probably try and double down on that.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I'm curious who the Tories will end up having to blame for their continuously intentional feck ups once we no longer have any immigrants in the country? It obviously can't be poor people because we'll all be poor as feck. Even middle class cnuts like me will probably have to buy those sub-£10 bottles of plonk for our dinner parties.

Will they just blame woke people? Like, that's exactly how they'll phrase it. "Woke people with their wokeness are stripping Britain of its Britishness, which is affecting our economy for some reason." And then they just bring out Priti Patel on her fat person wheelbarrow to eat Cornish pasties outside a Ladbrokes to really confuse folk so they have no clue what the feck is going on.
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Divide and conquer has worked for Britain over centuries in many countries. The ruling class will always find a group to blame, at home or abroad.
 
Buster15 said:
And I very much echo your last point. It is clear that you care about things and are not afraid to say what you believe.

The point about the public not wanting to hear the truth is a valid one, regrettably.
It is a human trait that we hear what we want to hear.
But that is why we elect people into positions of responsibility, because they are supposed to be able to see the big picture. And they are supposed to be capable of leading the country, sometimes in a difficult direction. And proper leaders should feel comfortable telling us what we need to hear. Not what we want to hear.
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I agree, also I believe we are told only what those in power want us to hear! That is why I am always doubtful (doubting Thomas) about what exactly is an absolute truth, at least in terms of politicians utterances.

I suppose its true that we get the politicians we deserve. From my early thirties up to my mid fifties I always, certainly at every GE, made a point to attend any public meetings where prospective candidates for my vote were due to speak, in an attempt to find out what each candidate really believed, not just the party publicity material. I have to say it generally wasn't much help, even when on one or two occasions I managed to get a couple of questions in from the floor, I very rarely left such meetings any the wiser. Nowadays all such events seem to be all practiced and choreographed and it is even less enlightening.

The only politician I felt really comfortable with was Labour's Frank Field. I wasn't one of his constituents, but I happened to be working on Merseyside at the time, so went along to one of his public meetings. He was impressive in his responses, although I didn't agree with everything he said I thought him 'an honest man' and had I lived in his constituency would probably have voted for him.

Effective leadership and politicians, in my experience rarely go together, although again whilst I disagreed with much of Margaret Thatchers idealism, she did (or tried to do) everything she said she would, we all had fair warning with Maggie. The phrase " the lady's not for turning" was a brutal truism at times. but very apt.

Frank Field and Margaret Thatcher may seem an 'odd coupling' but in my lifetime and personal experience these are the only two politicians that would come anywhere near to meeting your request to be told... what you needed to hear, rather than what you wanted to hear
 
markhughes said:
Kier Stanmer just called the Delta variant "The Johnson Variant" in the commons, this guy is such a poor leader for this Labour government. I still have no idea what his position is on almost anything.
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I have zero time for anyone that says this. What exactly are you struggling with? It’s easy to find his position on literally anything. Perhaps it’s not been spoon fed to you, but you can forage for it and feed yourself.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I have zero time for anyone that says this. What exactly are you struggling with? It’s easy to find his position on literally anything. Perhaps it’s not been spoon fed to you, but you can forage for it and feed yourself.
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100%. It's very easy for people to say "I have no idea what he stands for" when the same line has been repeated in mainstream media for months on end. Perhaps if they did a bit of research they would know.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I have zero time for anyone that says this. What exactly are you struggling with? It’s easy to find his position on literally anything. Perhaps it’s not been spoon fed to you, but you can forage for it and feed yourself.
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He's got those 10 Pledges and everything. Yes he's gone back on most, if not all, of them but they're still easy to find.
 
Compton22 said:
100%. It's very easy for people to say "I have no idea what he stands for" when the same line has been repeated in mainstream media for months on end. Perhaps if they did a bit of research they would know.
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Good political leaders don't make you work hard to clearly understand their priorities and positions on key issues.
 
The Labour party conference is less than three months away. I've a feeling it will be very rancorous indeed, but he will be under the spotlight then, his views should be more apparent at least.
 
711 said:
The Labour party conference is less than three months away. I've a feeling it will be very rancorous indeed, but he will be under the spotlight then, his views should be more apparent at least.
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:lol: yeah I'm sure it'll be fairly and widely reported.
 
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