Boris Johnson has solved racism. Very cool
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
Absolutely. It's almost like he doesn't realise the influence it had on him. Either that or he is inherently extremely right wing, but in denial.
Chicken or egg scenario.
*clap clap*
NHS pay row could mean 100,000 nurses quit after a year of pandemic pressure
A new poll suggested a pay rise was the most important issue for 70% of NHS staff
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-pay-row-could-mean-23823866
NHS pay row could mean 100,000 nurses quit after a year of pandemic pressure
A new poll suggested a pay rise was the most important issue for 70% of NHS staff
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-pay-row-could-mean-23823866
Valid point.
it’s an interesting challenge, one that will obviously span borders.
imagine you were in an old people’s home, wouldn’t you want or insist on your care assistants being vaccinated?
Going to be some employment challenges coming.
Jennifer Arcuri: Conservative Party helped PM with inquiry legal bills
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56604436
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56604436
Amber Rudd
I think there's a marked difference between some companies whose employees come into close contact with the elderly themselves insisting on vaccination; compared with governmental policy prohibiting visiting pubs, theatres or going on holiday without a vaccination passport.
The former is a matter for individual businesses and their potential employees deciding whether the job is worth having to be vaccinated. The latter is racist, ageist and terrifyingly authoritarian.
that’s why I say it’s an interesting challenge, and it’s just one example. There will be many.
furthermore, it’s not just the UK govt. you can easily see countries insisting on people being vaccinated to visit/ work/ fly to their destination.
Take the pub example, if pubs were required to close in the dirtier if there was a mini outbreak, then they might decide to implement a policy of only allowing vaccinated patrons. Likewise with theatres. It’s not necessarily govt led.
As I said, it’s a challenge. The vaccination will not rid us of this, and life will NOT revert back to normal we will need to make changes. There will be outbreaks, there will be closures, and restrictions, there will be deaths post June. It is not over.
the lack of uptake of the vaccination in certain groups, also requires sensible discussion, and not just to label it racist.
Not sure I understand the current furore regarding vaccine passports.
I look around my (non-trendy) home town, at all the shops and restaurants which have been closed since Christmas and wonder if any of them are ever to open again. At least three national brands have left my high street forever, taking jobs with them.
A 'two tier system' may not be ideal, but nor is a global pandemic. Would be nice to get those businesses open, who knows maybe one or two will still be in business this time next year if we they could allow people with a vaccine to spend money in them.
All those local restaurants closed, but you have to queue down the street, through a roundabout and down another street to get into the McDonalds drive through.
I look around my (non-trendy) home town, at all the shops and restaurants which have been closed since Christmas and wonder if any of them are ever to open again. At least three national brands have left my high street forever, taking jobs with them.
A 'two tier system' may not be ideal, but nor is a global pandemic. Would be nice to get those businesses open, who knows maybe one or two will still be in business this time next year if we they could allow people with a vaccine to spend money in them.
All those local restaurants closed, but you have to queue down the street, through a roundabout and down another street to get into the McDonalds drive through.
I'm all for opening up society completely and irreversibly. However doing so in a way that discriminates against people who for whatever reason (be it age, or historic and justifiable medical cynicism) won't be vaccinated would be dreadful in my view.
I think one of the reasons people are against the vaccine passports is that it would highlight just how stupid the plan of arbitrarily vaccinating people by age group has been as the under-40s wouldn’t be able to go out.
The single, working age person who is likely to go to the pub for a few with colleagues which is the backbone of the sector wouldn’t be able to go. The 40s and 50s are likely to have families and / or dependants and those over 60 I wouldn’t believe would frequent the, often enough to turn a profit.
‘University’ cities like Newcastle, Leeds and York would be screwed!
Would be interesting to see if it was possible to work out the percentage of sector income by age group.
The single, working age person who is likely to go to the pub for a few with colleagues which is the backbone of the sector wouldn’t be able to go. The 40s and 50s are likely to have families and / or dependants and those over 60 I wouldn’t believe would frequent the, often enough to turn a profit.
‘University’ cities like Newcastle, Leeds and York would be screwed!
Would be interesting to see if it was possible to work out the percentage of sector income by age group.
It's not arbitrary, as clearly age and mortality are heavily correlated. I'm fine that older folk are vaccinated first. But it doesn't make sense to have a two tier system now based on vulnerability, having done a blanket approach to lockdown before.
But there's clearly a discrepancy between vaccinating purely based on a view that older = more vulnerable when workers with close contact such as teachers and shop workers who have the highest rates of contacts have been left behind. For example my mum who, bless her, is retired and only ever leaves the house to walk her dog, visit my sister and I, or to do the shop, was a higher priority for vaccination than my wife who as a seco dary teacher comes in to close contact with hundreds of children a day.
But also look into issue like University Cities that die whenever the terms are over and students return home. Vaccine passports mean Uni students can't go out which means off-peak all year around. It's another case of cutting your nose to spite your face.
It will be interesting to see what happens to these towns when the older people die off and there is nothing there to attract younger people other than cheap property. Surely these trends cannot hold?
Those younger people become older people, and their viewpoint/ priorities change.
We could always prioritise people who want to go to the pub...
I frankly think we need to get over this notion, that we are all to be treated the same during the process of coming out of Covid.
If a 20 year old has to wait to go to the pub, or go on holiday, then so bloody what. The alternative being, we wait for everyone?
I’ve not been vaccinated yet. If my local opened and I couldn’t go, it would be frustrating, but at least they would be doing business. If I had to wait a couple of weeks or months, then simply I need to get a grip and get on with it.
It’s clearly not not pubs, theatres is one example where I expect the demographic is somewhat older. If younger people can’t go, but that enables them to open and carry on, what is the problem?
It’s all rather pointless anyway, as come June we can all do whatever we like... until about October when we all go into some form of lockdown again.
Yeah, but curent younger people do not and will not have the opportunity to buy property and get wealthy as easily as the current older people did. Therefore, their views will probabaly not move rightwards as readily or strongly. I bet this partly explains the loss of support among younger people for the Tories in the cities.
@finneh
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56625307
Interested to hear your perspective on passports to see events this summer? So you think that this is racist?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56625307
Interested to hear your perspective on passports to see events this summer? So you think that this is racist?
You'd think at this stage people would do anything to avoid another lockdown so I'm surprised to hear objections on principles/selfish viewpoints. The less at risk can still spread it which the vaccine will stop so a vaccine passport makes sense even though it won't be required for long.
Personally i think the government are putting out the right message for once but I'd like them to start the push that life won't be normal. The daily measures like masks should be around for some time with gradually reduced use.
Personally i think the government are putting out the right message for once but I'd like them to start the push that life won't be normal. The daily measures like masks should be around for some time with gradually reduced use.
I agree. If some of my liberties are purged, and that allows people to go to football matches, but I can’t because I’ve not been vaccinated. Then so be it.
I’d rather at least some people can do it, rather than wait for everyone. Same holidays, theatre etc.
to be honest, it’s been a bit like that throughout. Some people can work, some can’t. Nurseries (almost always) open, schools in and out. Sometimes you can sit on a bench, sometime you can’t...
It’s not a case a ranking activities from best to worst, it’s about limiting the contact, and movement of people. Granted some of the restrictions have seemed random and/ or arbitrary. Many haven’t worked. but the aim is to limit contact.
you are 100% right, this is not over come middle of June.
I certainly think that having to be vaccinated to attend a sports event or go to a nightclub has the effect of a racist policy. We know that the BAME community have a much lower uptake and so disproportionately preventing them from attending due to historical medical cynicism would be prejudiced.
In terms of a negative Covid test I still believe it's disproportionate, particularly if people have to shell out for said test (I'm in the Dominican at the moment and it's costing me over £250 for Covid tests before and when I return, which is fine for me but if it were a poorer person it would be prohibitive). Again this would disproportionately and negatively affect the poorest.
Personally I think we're now at the stage where people can make their own risk assessments. Whether they want to put themselves at risk by attending a night club, or a sports event should be down to the individual. If an overweight 90 year old with chronic lung disease, who refuses to be vaccinated, wants to put himself at risk by going to a nightclub then that's his business in my view.
there surely has to be a level of pragmatism?
hopefully we can have a sensible discussion on race...
As you say, the uptake of the vaccine is lower in some BAME communities. This may take years to solve. Last week I heard on the radio that 1/3 of the discrepancy could be explained by race, the rest was unexplained (from memory). So it’s not even a problem we know the solution for. But I think that by the by.
we can strive for true equality, but what do you do in the interim? If we wait until everyone had an equal opportunity to do things like attend football matches, we could be waiting a very long time. However, there is a need for these events to start going ahead, and yes there needs to be checks.
I personally don’t think it can be down to the insidiously, we’ve already seen the disgraceful scenes in Nottingham, and no doubt with there being decent weather today, there will be hundreds of incidents throughout the UK today.
too many people are stupid, and frankly untrustworthy, and (yes I am stereotyping) football fans are fecking idiots - so a passport is needed.
I believe there is a large % of people who would go to a one off event like an FA Cup final or European Championship match if they knowingly had Covidhad been in contact with someone who did. I don’t have the same faith in individuals as you do.
I may have read only 1/5 people who should self isolate actually have done so.
so what do we do?
As I said given the vaccine rollout I believe people can make their own risk assessments now without government intervention.
Of course if Wetherspoons or United decide they want to limit their clientele to those who are vaccinated then that's up to them, although I'd be surprised if they'd restrict their own customer base.
you have far more faith in the general public than me. Clearly it’s a minority of covidiots, but significant enough that we have to have controls put on them.
I have more faith in the ability of the populace to make their own risk assessment and adjust it accordingly. People will factor the actions of Covidiots into this risk assessment, just as people currently factor idiots on the road into their driving habits.
The aforementioned 90 year old overweight person with chronic lung disease will almost certainly not be clubbing every weekend. He may well decide though that Covidiots are unlikely to have infiltrated Les Miserables and he may likewise decide a private box would further lessen his risk.
A 30 year old with no underlying health conditions may well decide that the standing section at a Foo Fighters gig is fine, despite the likelihood of a few Covidiots.
The population deals with idiots that put us at risk in almost every facet of their lives; whether it be driving, cycling, walking, flying, eating, working etc. Why are we all of a sudden treated like children who are unable to make our own judgements and risk assessments now?
i don’t go clubbing and I’m for and 40. I’m sure you are only allowed to do that on your 20s...
I live in London, and from what I can see, yes you do need controls if the last 12 months are anything to go by. You already see enough of the bad behaviour now. Mid June it’s going to be like it never happened, in behaviour and attitude.
If being treated like children means we can control this thing, then frankly so be it. The majority suffer because of the idiots, that’s always been the same.
For my 32nd birthday last year (February) and after several pints already in various pubs and bars we decided it was a great idea to go to a Snobs (a club in Birmingham). Suffice it to say that even at our level of inebriation we felt very much out of place.
Herd immunity by vaccination is the key to getting control of Covid. In this regard we're far enough along in my view to allow people to take back what should be their inalienable right to judge risk themselves and respond accordingly.
If it were a binary choice though between months of lockdown and vaccination passports I'd selfishly acquiesce (especially as my second jab is in 7 weeks).
'Gay marriage caused covid' claim from Scottish election candidate slammed
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/...7Z5vuf4NFryegxXElYoMe07rMbiGzb4BcekUCYq37_Vak
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/...7Z5vuf4NFryegxXElYoMe07rMbiGzb4BcekUCYq37_Vak
It was only a matter of time before this shit spouted up from the nutters.
Hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, all the gays’ doing. Why not covid?
Brexit will soon be their fault as well.
He's reinforcing the stereotypes about the Scottish islands being full of Wicker Man style backwards weirdos.
I would very much like to read his justifications for such mental deficiency. The article let him off a little light.
He'd only blather on about scripture and sin so feck him and don't give him airtime.
The 'he needs to climb back into his primeval hole' putdown made me chuckle at least.
Get what you are saying, but utter delusional lunacy like this should always be exposed to sunlight. It’s the best disinfectant.
I can see why, but it's very unlikely this old guy will ever change his mind.
The article is highlighting him as a crank. Whenever there's a natural disaster or something bad there's always some religious nut somewhere blaming it on gay marriage or women's rights etc...This guy isn't influencing others at least- would save the disinfectant for those tbh.
Totally get your point, but the exposure would allow the younger generation to see this absurdity for what it is & to hopefully question the ‘logic’ behind it.
Wrong thread for this, obviously. Sorry for detailing it a tad.