Westminster Politics

711 said:
Thanks for the answer, eventually. The point you originally made, which was that a vote for the Liberals was a vote for a Tory/Liberal coalition seemed like it might have some validity, so I wondered how far Labour would be prepared to move themselves to achieve a coalition, and you've answered that well, ditch Corbyn for a start. It does mean that your original point was incorrect though, and you now think voting Liberal could mean a Lib/Lab coalition as well as a Lib/Con coalition, which is what I was trying to determine really. Obviously someone could win outright, but I can't see that at the moment.
Click to expand...
Sweet Square said:
As for your question well yeah if getting someone like Clive Lewis in meant Labour would win a general election and put forward a left wing manifesto
Click to expand...
I was talking about a Labour majority. The lib Dems would never go into a coalition with a Labour Party which has a left manifesto. As the tweet I posted pretty much shows.

Also you still haven't answered this
Sweet Square said:
So are you just dropping the whole the lib Dems are only not supporting Corbyn because of Brexit then ?
Click to expand...

Paul the Wolf said:
We've been over this about 4 times - you must do better.

If Corbyn 's not a Brexiter let's see a vigorous campaign from Labour now to stop the insanity and prevent the UK crashing out with no deal in 4 months time. Perhaps by being the opposition for a change and not proposing ridiculous alternative ways of leaving (which by the way is not remaining) - any form of Brexit will be a disaster - just a question of degree, very bad to catastrophic, surely a true Remainer would fight.
Click to expand...
Again even if this happened(I mentioned countless times why Corbyn isn't going on these awful marches)it doesn't change the numbers in the House of Commons. Corbyn painting his face with the colours of the Eu won't convince tories to vote against their party or labour leave MPs to with the party. Even the lib Dems first goal is to stop Corbyn being PM above all else.
 
I struggle to see Swinson doing well if she becomes leader - by all accounts anyone in Scotland who even knows her remotely says she's basically a liberal Tory who went Lib Dem to advance her political career and she's not a particularly good speaker at all. In a strange way if she does win the party might benefit from not exposing her too much and letting their current narrative carry them since that's been doing well and is working with a portion of the electorate.
 
Sweet Square said:
I was talking about a Labour majority. The lib Dems would never go into a coalition with a Labour Party which has a left manifesto. As the tweet I posted pretty much shows.
Click to expand...
If the Labour left aren't prepared to move enough to form a coalition then they're pretty much doomed to be in permanent opposition I'm afraid, although I suspect that suits them in a way.
 
711 said:
If the Labour left aren't prepared to move enough to form a coalition then they're pretty much doomed to be in permanent opposition I'm afraid, although I suspect that suits them in a way.
Click to expand...
Cheers for this amazingly pointless converstation.
 
Sweet Square said:
Also you still haven't answered this "So are you just dropping the whole the lib Dems are only not supporting Corbyn because of Brexit then ?"
Click to expand...
The reason I said the two Liberal candidates wouldn't form a coalition with Corbyn because he is a Brexiter is because that is what they both said on Sky today. No doubt there may be other reasons too, but that is the reason they gave, so I'm not dropping the idea, no.
 
Sweet Square said:
Again even if this happened(I mentioned countless times why Corbyn isn't going on these awful marches)it doesn't change the numbers in the House of Commons. Corbyn painting his face with the colours of the Eu won't convince tories to vote against their party or labour leave MPs to with the party. Even the lib Dems first goal is to stop Corbyn being PM above all else.
Click to expand...

This is what is exasperating, Tory MPs are voting against their party , so are certain Labour MPs. There are plenty of Tory Remainer MPs. Corbyn will never have a majority in the HoC unless he is PM, you're not supposed to roll over and die if you're the leader of the opposition, this why he is such a crap leader. If he really was a Remainer ,three years and more he's had to persuade people that Brexit was such a terrible idea but no...
 
Paul the Wolf said:
This is what is exasperating, Tory MPs are voting against their party , so are certain Labour MPs. There are plenty of Tory Remainer MPs. Corbyn will never have a majority in the HoC unless he is PM, you're not supposed to roll over and die if you're the leader of the opposition, this why he is such a crap leader. If he really was a Remainer ,three years and more he's had to persuade people that Brexit was such a terrible idea but no...
Click to expand...

Most of them will still stick with their party when it matters though, they probably dislike Corbyn more than they do no deal.
 
Cheesy said:
Most of them will still stick with their party when it matters though, they probably dislike Corbyn more than they do no deal.
Click to expand...

Now, yes, probably, but had someone prominent like the leader of the opposition had fought a campaign from three years ago to remain and exposed the faults of Brexit, the story may have been different.

The Tories don't fear Corbyn, they make out they do, but they've got an opposition leader who is weak and who goes along with the main policy of Brexit, while they themselves have a bunch of MP's themselves who are terrible - they can't believe their luck.
 
Last edited:
Paul the Wolf said:
This is what is exasperating, Tory MPs are voting against their party , so are certain Labour MPs. There are plenty of Tory Remainer MPs. Corbyn will never have a majority in the HoC unless he is PM, you're not supposed to roll over and die if you're the leader of the opposition, this why he is such a crap leader. If he really was a Remainer ,three years and more he's had to persuade people that Brexit was such a terrible idea but no...
Click to expand...

Which people should have been persuaded because it looks like you're saying Corbyn should have somehow convinced Tories to vote for a peoples vote? If that's your benchmark you're mental

As if it didn't pass in parliament because they were unaware of why brexit is bad :wenger:
 
Smores said:
Which people should have been persuaded because it looks like you're saying Corbyn should have somehow convinced Tories to vote for a peoples vote? If that's your benchmark you're mental

As if it didn't pass in parliament because they were unaware of why brexit is bad :wenger:
Click to expand...

Corbyn says he finally accepts to have a people's vote for an agreement in parliament, there is no agreement in parliament and the only possible agreement is the one that's been ready for 18 months and keeps getting rejected.

I don't get this reasoning, what is Corbyn's job, just to sit on the opposition bench and look gormless for everything that goes on in parliament because for that he's done an excellent job.
 
711 said:
If the Labour left aren't prepared to move enough to form a coalition then they're pretty much doomed to be in permanent opposition I'm afraid, although I suspect that suits them in a way.
Click to expand...

So the Lib Dem's precondition for putting Labour in government is removing their elected leader with the largest mandate a figure has had from a party's membership before, and supposedly the Labour left would be obstinate if they refused that. It's a ridiculous demand. They've just let Umunna into their party, who previously advocated leaving the Single Market, explicitly ruled out the prospect of a second referendum, and asserted that he could never forgive the Lib Dems for what they did to his community via austerity. The notion that they'd be unwilling to work with Corbyn even if he backed a second referendum thus exposes their real issue with him is not to do with his Brexit position, and Labour would be right to tell them to feck off if the first term they laid out for securing their support is the removal of their elected leader.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Corbyn says he finally accepts to have a people's vote for an agreement in parliament, there is no agreement in parliament and the only possible agreement is the one that's been ready for 18 months and keeps getting rejected.

I don't get this reasoning, what is Corbyn's job, just to sit on the opposition bench and look gormless for everything that goes on in parliament because for that he's done an excellent job.
Click to expand...
I think he could be part of the Illuminati keeping the conservatives in power...
Nah I just think hes incompetent
 
Paul the Wolf said:
This is what is exasperating, Tory MPs are voting against their party , so are certain Labour MPs. There are plenty of Tory Remainer MPs. Corbyn will never have a majority in the HoC unless he is PM, you're not supposed to roll over and die if you're the leader of the opposition, this why he is such a crap leader. If he really was a Remainer ,three years and more he's had to persuade people that Brexit was such a terrible idea but no...
Click to expand...
So why hasn't Corbyn pressed the stop the Brexit button is your argument. I've gone over this a million times, if you think the reason the country is heading toward a no deal Brexit is because of one individual then this has been rather pointless.
 
711 said:
The reason I said the two Liberal candidates wouldn't form a coalition with Corbyn because he is a Brexiter is because that is what they both said on Sky today. No doubt there may be other reasons too, but that is the reason they gave, so I'm not dropping the idea, no.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the answer, eventually
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Corbyn says he finally accepts to have a people's vote for an agreement in parliament, there is no agreement in parliament and the only possible agreement is the one that's been ready for 18 months and keeps getting rejected.

I don't get this reasoning, what is Corbyn's job, just to sit on the opposition bench and look gormless for everything that goes on in parliament because for that he's done an excellent job.
Click to expand...

Of course parliament has to agree what deal goes on the second referendum what the hell do you think would happen?

Corbyn's job is to counter measure the government to hold them to account. Give me a glimpse into this argument that is going to win over as you say remain Tory MPs who apparently despite being remainers don't understand the need for a second vote?

Your logic appears to be "i want Tory MPs to support a vote and this hasn't happened so it's Corbyn's fault".
 
Sweet Square said:
So why hasn't Corbyn pressed the stop the Brexit button is your argument. I've gone over this a million times, if you think the reason the country is heading toward a no deal Brexit is because of one individual then this has been rather pointless.
Click to expand...

No of course it's not because of one individual but what has he done to stop it. He can't stop it on his own but what's the point of being in opposition if you don't do anything at all.

Remember watching some of the build-up to the referendum before I knew who Corbyn was - who was this new leader of the party and where is he and why isn't he being more vocal, the invisible remainer.
Since then he has voted to trigger A50 and then later criticised the government for triggering A50 without a plan.
Keeps very quiet and makes the odd comment against May saying Labour could do better while the negotiations were going on.

Then comes out with an equally ridiculous plan as the Tories, and furthermore still maintains it to this day.
He may as well have spent the past three years on his allotment, would have been more productive.

Now you're going to drop of the cliff at the end of October. As long as you're happy. Fine.
 
Smores said:
Of course parliament has to agree what deal goes on the second referendum what the hell do you think would happen?

Corbyn's job is to counter measure the government to hold them to account. Give me a glimpse into this argument that is going to win over as you say remain Tory MPs who apparently despite being remainers don't understand the need for a second vote?

Your logic appears to be "i want Tory MPs to support a vote and this hasn't happened so it's Corbyn's fault".
Click to expand...

But there is only one agreement which Corbyn has voted against. The argument should have started three years ago to point out why Brexit is a categorically stupid idea but no Corbyn comes out with Freedom of Movement has to stop and we're going to have the same benefits outside the EU as you did inside , the pretence is over.

It's not all Corbyn's fault, he's just part of it.

Just give up and let a hard Brexit happen, Corbyn has but probably not too unhappy.

PS. Therefore a vote of no confidence is a waste of time because the Tories and the DUP will thus support the government. Corbyn's cunning plan backfires again.
 
Last edited:
Ed Davey's deflecting about backing the Tories uni fee hike and £28bn disability benefit cuts in 201 was awful- 'Labour planned similar cuts...'
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Corbyn says he finally accepts to have a people's vote for an agreement in parliament, there is no agreement in parliament and the only possible agreement is the one that's been ready for 18 months and keeps getting rejected.

I don't get this reasoning, what is Corbyn's job, just to sit on the opposition bench and look gormless for everything that goes on in parliament because for that he's done an excellent job.
Click to expand...
I will never understand your sheer hatred for Corbyn and your repeditness to slur him while we have 2 mentally challenged people trying to be pm.
 
Stanley Road said:
I will never understand your sheer hatred for Corbyn and your repeditness to slur him while we have 2 mentally challenged people trying to be pm.
Click to expand...

I don't recall ever praising any of the current Tories -
As I've said many times Theresa May is the worst PM at least since WW2. Johnson is a buffoon who is totally unreliable, has no real conviction and will say anything if that's what he thinks you want to hear. Hunt is not that different but a little less radical but would sell his grandmother to be PM. The rest of the Tory main figures are mainly extremely thick.

Farage is a slimy racist spiv and not very bright but somehow brighter than his followers.

When you need someone to be strong and stand up to these people, which should be so easy considering how incompetent and untruthful they are - guess who you get, little weed Jeremy Corbyn whose major achievement is to look pensive over the top of his glasses.
Just as well I haven't really criticised his policies that much.

It's like the whole of the Premier League teams sell all their best players and we should walk the PL but Ole decides to play eleven Jesse Lingards. Hopeless.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I don't recall ever praising any of the current Tories -
As I've said many times Theresa May is the worst PM at least since WW2. Johnson is a buffoon who is totally unreliable, has no real conviction and will say anything if that's what he thinks you want to hear. Hunt is not that different but a little less radical but would sell his grandmother to be PM. The rest of the Tory main figures are mainly extremely thick.

Farage is a slimy racist spiv and not very bright but somehow brighter than his followers.

When you need someone to be strong and stand up to these people, which should be so easy considering how incompetent and untruthful they are - guess who you get, little weed Jeremy Corbyn whose major achievement is to look pensive over the top of his glasses.
Just as well I haven't really criticised his policies that much.

It's like the whole of the Premier League teams sell all their best players and we should walk the PL but Ole decides to play eleven Jesse Lingards. Hopeless.
Click to expand...

Remember the poor guy in the Corbyn thread who laid into him at every opportunity, in the days when oooooo Jeremy Corbyn was still a thing, was thread banned, went on a rant and was perma banned?

Wish he was still here now, just so he could tell the fanbois, "I told you so". I thought he was entertaining, RIP Oscie :(
 
Sassy Colin said:
Remember the poor guy in the Corbyn thread who laid into him at every opportunity, in the days when oooooo Jeremy Corbyn was still a thing, was thread banned, went on a rant and was perma banned?

Wish he was still here now, just so he could tell the fanbois, "I told you so". I thought he was entertaining, RIP Oscie :(
Click to expand...
Me too, he gave some balance to the current events forum and even though I often disagreed with him I found his points usually well-considered. I don't know how I missed his meltdown, must have been away I suppose.
 
711 said:
Me too, he gave some balance to the current events forum and even though I often disagreed with him I found his points usually well-considered. I don't know how I missed his meltdown, must have been away I suppose.
Click to expand...

likewise I must have missed his rant - I couldn't remember anything he said that crossed the line but then again a perma ban isnt normally handed out here for nothing
 
Oscie was mental, definition of extreme centre :lol:
 
Sassy Colin said:
Try this one, sorry:

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/redcafes-future.442342/
Click to expand...
I see. Well some of that was fair enough, especially about Eboue, but I never saw his weird obsession with age coming. I mean I'm old ok, but surely the lefties he tended to argue with are on the younger side? Maybe they're not, I don't know, but if he's found himself a forum of exclusively 18 year-olds then good luck to him, he'll need it.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Remember the poor guy in the Corbyn thread who laid into him at every opportunity, in the days when oooooo Jeremy Corbyn was still a thing, was thread banned, went on a rant and was perma banned?

Wish he was still here now, just so he could tell the fanbois, "I told you so". I thought he was entertaining, RIP Oscie :(
Click to expand...

Was quite amusing when he wound up the Corbyn fanboys. Although I thought they are under 30 criticising older people who had it so easy and following a 70 year old who wants to share out everybody's possessions - in my day it was called stealing.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Was quite amusing when he wound up the Corbyn fanboys. Although I thought they are under 30 criticising older people who had it so easy and following a 70 year old who wants to share out everybody's possessions - in my day it was called stealing.
Click to expand...
For young people you've got that the wrong way round, they call stealing 'taxing'.
 
BobbyManc said:
So the Lib Dem's precondition for putting Labour in government is removing their elected leader with the largest mandate a figure has had from a party's membership before, and supposedly the Labour left would be obstinate if they refused that. It's a ridiculous demand. They've just let Umunna into their party, who previously advocated leaving the Single Market, explicitly ruled out the prospect of a second referendum, and asserted that he could never forgive the Lib Dems for what they did to his community via austerity. The notion that they'd be unwilling to work with Corbyn even if he backed a second referendum thus exposes their real issue with him is not to do with his Brexit position, and Labour would be right to tell them to feck off if the first term they laid out for securing their support is the removal of their elected leader.
Click to expand...

Oh cmon. By painting labour as the brexit party it is under Corbyn, the more likely they are to attract labour remain voters. Telling everyone they won’t do business with the brexiteer Corbyn reinforces their credentials and further weakens labour. It’s good politics to use their opponents weakness against them.

Or put more simply, their message is, if you hate Corbyn’s brexit, vote for Lib Dem’s and they will give him a kicking.
 
711 said:
For young people you've got that the wrong way round, they call stealing 'taxing'.
Click to expand...

I don't mean paying tax - no problems with people paying tax nor with people earning more paying more tax. In fact I don't think people in the UK pay anywhere near enough tax. They should put that in the next Labour manifesto that all taxes should be raised by 10% starting at 30%. I'm sure it will win a lot of votes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.