Westminster Politics

Dumbstar said:
Those people are completely lost in their spiral of confusion. Labour are not Tories. So they're better. But they're acting exactly like the Tories. But they're not actually Tories so they're still better. Do you want the Tories to stay in power? And so on.

It's a mental block with them. :wenger:
Click to expand...
You literally called me a Tory when I was criticising Starmer on here a couple of years ago :lol:

You were one of those people until Starmer made his views on Gaza clear
 
SilentWitness said:
But then you'll get people coming in here saying you're a dickhead if you don't vote Labour to oust the Tories after yet another shite thing Starmer does.
Click to expand...
God forbid that Labour would make changes to a plan after consultation with the organisations most affected.
 
Mogget said:
You literally called me a Tory when I was criticising Starmer on here a couple of years ago :lol:

You were one of those people until Starmer made his views on Gaza clear
Click to expand...

:lol:

You were the one fortune teller I should have listened to. Are arsenal going to win the league (money could ride on it :nervous:)?
 
Dumbstar said:
:lol:

You were the one fortune teller I should have listened to. Are arsenal going to win the league (money could ride on it :nervous:)?
Click to expand...
At least you see him for what he really is now :)

Unfortunately not, you were right about it being a one horse race when we dropped points
 
Dumbstar said:
Those people are completely lost in their spiral of confusion. Labour are not Tories. So they're better. But they're acting exactly like the Tories. But they're not actually Tories so they're still better. Do you want the Tories to stay in power? And so on.

It's a mental block with them. :wenger:
Click to expand...
People are not confused, it's just a needs must to get the Tories out that some can stomach, others can't, but you know this.
I sure as hell understand the desire to maximise the Tory defeat but also think Starmer is atrocious and have zero enthusiasm for this incarnation of Labour. Pretty sure Labour would at least be less callous than this Tory government, but still not decided whether I'll actually vote or not, much as it pains me. Never done a postal vote before and presumably I'll have to do it early, so feels like I'm lining up lame excuses in my head already.
 
Jippy said:
People are not confused, it's just a needs must to get the Tories out that some can stomach, others can't, but you know this.
I sure as hell understand the desire to maximise the Tory defeat but also think Starmer is atrocious and have zero enthusiasm for this incarnation of Labour. Pretty sure Labour would at least be less callous than this Tory government, but still not decided whether I'll actually vote or not, much as it pains me. Never done a postal vote before and presumably I'll have to do it early, so feels like I'm lining up lame excuses in my head already.
Click to expand...
In simple terms it's the UK version of Biden vs Trump, no one really wants either but those are the choices, the lesser of 2 evils essentially
 
Red in STL said:
In simple terms it's the UK version of Biden vs Trump, no one really wants either but those are the choices, the lesser of 2 evils essentially
Click to expand...

I'd probably say it's like Clinton v Trump

Tonnes of people were saying that they were voting for another candidate after feeling like the left had been screwed and Clinton was centre right etc.
 
GMhSeTEXwAAO8ZE


https://theguardian.com/politics/20...rkers-will-not-fully-ban-zero-hours-contracts
 
Been a moron and forgot to register so can't vote. I thought I'd still be registered to an old address I use to live at back in 2021 but nope been taken off.

Fuming.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Been a moron and forgot to register so can't vote. I thought I'd still be registered to an old address I use to live at back in 2021 but nope been taken off.

Fuming.
Click to expand...

If someone moved to that address and registered, they would have been sent a letter stating who lives there and they would have said you don't then you would have been removed after checking second source e.g Council Tax. Make sure to register at new address now so ready for General Election. It only takes 2 mins and can do all online. I always vote by postal vote, a lot easier.
 
Minister ‘sorry’ as veterans find ID card not valid for English elections

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-find-id-card-not-valid-for-english-elections

The veterans minister has apologised to former military personnel who have been prevented from using their veterans ID in order to vote in the local elections in England on Thursday.
Downing Street said it would “look into” changing the controversial new rules, which require photo ID in order to vote, to allow veterans’ ID cards on to the list of valid identification.

The minister, Johnny Mercer, was responding to a complaint from a veteran who said he had been turned away at a polling station. “I am sorry about this. The legislation on acceptable forms of ID came out before the veterans ID cards started coming out in January this year. I will do all I can to change it before the next one,” Mercer tweeted.
No 10 said it would be consulting on making the change. “This ID card was introduced very, very recently,” Rishi Sunak’s spokesman said.

---

Tory shock as voter suppression measure suppresses the wrong voters.
 
TheGame said:
If someone moved to that address and registered, they would have been sent a letter stating who lives there and they would have said you don't then you would have been removed after checking second source e.g Council Tax. Make sure to register at new address now so ready for General Election. It only takes 2 mins and can do all online. I always vote by postal vote, a lot easier.
Click to expand...
It was above my old pub which never reopened post pandemic. The company didn't end up selling and went into liquidation at the building is just sat there doing feck all right now.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
It was above my old pub which never reopened post pandemic. The company didn't end up selling and went into liquidation at the building is just sat there doing feck all right now.
Click to expand...

Ah the Council would have sent letters to that address each year asking who lives there and if you don't respond and they check with another source e.g Council Tax then they remove you.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Been a moron and forgot to register so can't vote. I thought I'd still be registered to an old address I use to live at back in 2021 but nope been taken off.

Fuming.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, you're post just reminded me to go and vote.
 
TheGame said:
If someone moved to that address and registered, they would have been sent a letter stating who lives there and they would have said you don't then you would have been removed after checking second source e.g Council Tax. Make sure to register at new address now so ready for General Election. It only takes 2 mins and can do all online. I always vote by postal vote, a lot easier.
Click to expand...
I'm old school. I still like the feeling of placing my ballot paper in the ballot box. I know that sounds sexual but is not meant to be.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I'm old school. I still like the feeling of placing my ballot paper in the ballot box.
Click to expand...

Yeh me too!

By the way how does the postal vote photo ID (proof) stuff work?

Thought the whole point was the comparison between the person voting (in real time)and their photograph on a Passport or Driving licence, or other authorised document etc
 
Desert Eagle said:
Standard stuff from someone who is presumably quite religious. Go to any church or mosque or whatever and you'll probably find a majority share his views.
Click to expand...

Thankfully it's a declining proportion, but he is of course entitled to his views. It's his constituents who will decide how those views sit with them.
 
Maticmaker said:
Yeh me too!

By the way how does the postal vote photo ID (proof) stuff work?

Thought the whole point was the comparison between the person voting (in real time)and their photograph on a Passport or Driving licence, or other authorised document etc
Click to expand...
No photo ID is required for a postal vote.
 
The Boy said:
No photo ID is required for a postal vote.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks, just curious...

However, when you think about it that doesn't seem to make much sense?

If you turn up in person you need a photograph on an official form so they can compare, and confirm its you, actually voting, but with a postal vote presumably they take as proof its your actual vote if it has your name and number on it, and therefore accept anything that's sent in whether its your vote or not???

Sure I must have misunderstood but on the face of it the phrase "unable to organise a pi** up in a brewery" does come to mind :lol:
 
Maticmaker said:
Ok, thanks, just curious...

However, when you think about it that doesn't seem to make much sense?

If you turn up in person you need a photograph on an official form so they can compare, and confirm its you, actually voting, but with a postal vote presumably they take as proof its your actual vote if it has your name and number on it, and therefore accept anything that's sent in whether its your vote or not???

Sure I must have misunderstood but on the face of it the phrase "unable to organise a pi** up in a brewery" does come to mind :lol:
Click to expand...

Voter ID in its current form is a voter suppression measure. It makes a lot more sense when you have 16 or so valid forms of ID for voters over 60, and very few for younger voters. Voter fraud was practically non-existent.

If any government issued a free photo ID card to all adults that could be used for voting, I would have no complaints.
 
Frosty said:
Voter ID in its current form is a voter suppression measure. It makes a lot more sense when you have 16 or so valid forms of ID for voters over 60, and very few for younger voters. Voter fraud was practically non-existent.

If any government issued a free photo ID card to all adults that could be used for voting, I would have no complaints.
Click to expand...

I understand (I think) what you are getting at, that for younger eligible voters there is less official formats they can use to establish their identity, but that doesn't answer the question about authenticity of postal votes, for old or young?
 
Maticmaker said:
Ok, thanks, just curious...

However, when you think about it that doesn't seem to make much sense?

If you turn up in person you need a photograph on an official form so they can compare, and confirm its you, actually voting, but with a postal vote presumably they take as proof its your actual vote if it has your name and number on it, and therefore accept anything that's sent in whether its your vote or not???

Sure I must have misunderstood but on the face of it the phrase "unable to organise a pi** up in a brewery" does come to mind :lol:
Click to expand...
Voter suppression laws don't have to make sense, they're only there to make it harder for young people and poor people to vote.
 
The Boy said:
Voter suppression laws don't have to make sense, they're only there to make it harder for young people and poor people to vote.
Click to expand...

I understand from what @Frosty says that the rules for presenting in person and supplying a legal photo is stacked against certain sections mainly young people or poor people. But how does that effect postal votes, when there does not seem to be any photographic evidence require to confirm/authenticate who is voting by post, old or young?
 
Maticmaker said:
I understand from what @Frosty says that the rules for presenting in person and supplying a legal photo is stacked against certain sections mainly young people or poor people. But how does that effect postal votes, when there does not seem to be any photographic evidence require to confirm/authenticate who is voting by post, old or young?
Click to expand...

Requirements have been made more stringent:

https://www.local.gov.uk/about/our-...ion/local-government-elections/changes-postal

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/apply-vote-post

It has now become more difficult. I have had three applications rejected by my local council without explanation.

I believe your identity is checked via records held by the DWP. Which raises a number of other questions given the state of their records.

Also there is a move in many political circles to ban postal voting because of more non-existent 'fraud'.
 
Maticmaker said:
I understand from what @Frosty says that the rules for presenting in person and supplying a legal photo is stacked against certain sections mainly young people or poor people. But how does that effect postal votes, when there does not seem to be any photographic evidence require to confirm/authenticate who is voting by post, old or young?
Click to expand...

This is one of the first real looks at postal voting in the UK and who does it https://academic.oup.com/pa/article/76/1/43/6361031 it's a long read but quite a good one if you're into that sort of thing!

Basically elderly people are more likely to vote by post and those age demographics are more likely to vote Tory. Also supporters of centre left and left wing parties are less likely to vote by post.

A couple of quotes here:

"We find strong support to the notion that voters who are older and disabled are much more prone to casting a postal ballot than their younger and more mobile peers."

" It is the supporters of the centre-left parties that contest seats across Britain who are least likely to vote by post, as evident in the negative coefficients of −0.22 for the Labour Party, −0.27 for Liberal Democrats and −0.31 for the Green Party. We do not find a significant effect for voters who identify with the Conservative Party, UKIP, the Brexit Party or the nationalist parties."

Interestingly people in marginal constituencies are also more likely to vote by post, which is also handy for the Tories given the elderly demographic.

So basically it is more difficult for young people to vote in their preferred way but easier for the elderly to vote with their preferred method and this is exaggerated in marginal seats.
 
Basically the voter ID rules (supported by Labour and Tories) go further than any measures passed by the Republican Party in any US state. It is basically a poll tax for many.
 
Frosty said:
Basically the voter ID rules (supported by Labour and Tories) go further than any measures passed by the Republican Party in any US state. It is basically a poll tax for many.
Click to expand...

Didn't Labour vote against it when it was proposed in Parliament? Also I literally just saw Khan railing against it and said it was some US policy being put over here.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Didn't Labour vote against it when it was proposed in Parliament? Also I literally just saw Khan railing against it and said it was some US policy being put over here.
Click to expand...
Voted against it, shadow ministers later said no plans to remove it.

That's not just a dig at Labour, it is more bemoaning the fact that there are no constitutional safeguards here.

Even the Supreme Court has said there was no common law or constitutional right to vote.
 
The Boy said:
This is one of the first real looks at postal voting in the UK and who does it https://academic.oup.com/pa/article/76/1/43/6361031 it's a long read but quite a good one if you're into that sort of thing!

Basically elderly people are more likely to vote by post and those age demographics are more likely to vote Tory. Also supporters of centre left and left wing parties are less likely to vote by post.

A couple of quotes here:

"We find strong support to the notion that voters who are older and disabled are much more prone to casting a postal ballot than their younger and more mobile peers."

" It is the supporters of the centre-left parties that contest seats across Britain who are least likely to vote by post, as evident in the negative coefficients of −0.22 for the Labour Party, −0.27 for Liberal Democrats and −0.31 for the Green Party. We do not find a significant effect for voters who identify with the Conservative Party, UKIP, the Brexit Party or the nationalist parties."

Interestingly people in marginal constituencies are also more likely to vote by post, which is also handy for the Tories given the elderly demographic.

So basically it is more difficult for young people to vote in their preferred way but easier for the elderly to vote with their preferred method and this is exaggerated in marginal seats.
Click to expand...
It's odd that the younger demographic - ie people with jobs and commitments and places to be - favour voting in person. I've always voted by post because I have never been able to guarantee I can get to the poling station.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.