Agree with this. Always thought the same.
Wesley Sneijder
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Agree with this. Always thought the same.
Our 2 worst games were against Arse and Pool as I recall, in our games our midfield was completely overrun by their pressing and the ball never even reached Rooney or our other attackers for the most part.
So tell me, would having Sneijder in that midfield being pressed to shit have made any difference?
So tell me, would having Sneijder in that midfield being pressed to shit have made any difference?
I can't quote directly either but only in this thread.
Well, cina, that's why I think we should not rigidly stick to a two-man midfield; we should consider playing 4-5-1 more often away from home.
4-4-2 should not be set in stone.
Well, cina, that's why I think we should not rigidly stick to a two-man midfield; we should consider playing 4-5-1 more often away from home.
4-4-2 should not be set in stone.
Sharky quote: (stupid redcafe)
When he was what? 18 or 19?
Fabregas hit his best form when he became the focal point of the Arsenal midfield, a bit like Rooney only higher up the pitch obviously.
Like I said, our best performances were all against Chelsea, that first XI was spot on against them. The Carrick & Giggs midfield was completely overrun in every other big game.
I really don't see the point in paying such massive money on Sneijder when we will very rarely play him in his best position, and when we do it means our best player doesn't play in his best position. What's the fecking point?
When he was what? 18 or 19?
Fabregas hit his best form when he became the focal point of the Arsenal midfield, a bit like Rooney only higher up the pitch obviously.
Like I said, our best performances were all against Chelsea, that first XI was spot on against them. The Carrick & Giggs midfield was completely overrun in every other big game.
I really don't see the point in paying such massive money on Sneijder when we will very rarely play him in his best position, and when we do it means our best player doesn't play in his best position. What's the fecking point?
eh? examples please....
Woohoo, I can quote again.
My point was that we found our best attack when Hernandez was played infront of Rooney last season. We go 4-5-1, we limit Rooney.
We should be looking to have a top midfield combo behind the 2 of them to deal with breaks and constant pressing, which a lot of teams have succeeded in doing against us, even when we play 3 in midfield.
It was a big mistake to play a two-man midfield at Anfield, particularly one involving Scholes, a mistake that, bizarrely, Fergie committed in three consecutive seasons.
In those games, Rooney up front with Sneijder doing the creative duty behind him and two defensive-minded midfielders doing the dirty work would be better. With Sneijder's creativity, intelligence and ability to retain the ball under pressure we could be much more composed than with having Rooney as the second striker and Hernández or Berbatov up front.
yes, against Arse and Pool Giggs didn't play in centre mid (left wing v Pool and no minutes vs. Arsenal) and our midfield can't handle being pressed. Players like Giggs, Iniesta (and the old Scholes) and Sneijder can deal with pressure and come out with the ball to set up devastating counter attacks.
This usually leads to the opposition chilling with the pressure tactics.
Barca and Pool anyway.
Any time we've had a massive game away from home our midfield has been overrun, bar Chelsea.
Barca? come on cina, are you really throwing that card out.
Scholes and Carrick played CM vs. pool.
Precisely why we should look for midfielders who are comfortable even when pressed and are suited to play three in the middle.
I don't think the "false nine" role in a 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1, whatever you call it restricts Rooney at all; it merely brings out other aspects of his game. He is a much better option there against the biggest sides because his strength and ability on the ball allows the attacking midfielder to drop a little deeper, to help out the other two midfielders a little more, thus granting more passing options.
We won't be able to get some world-class all-rounder (I can't even think of one to be honest) who could single-handedly compensate for the numerical disadvantage in midfield against the top sides. Either Rooney drops back to create a midfield three which leaves our little poacher up front completely isolated (as he's not really comfortable on his own) or we simply give up any pretensions of trying to control the midfield and resort to sitting back, soaking up the pressure and hitting teams on the break.
Agree with this, we tried it against Barca but Rooney can't play that role where he drops back so deep, he got nowhere near Sergio Biscuits.
But if our midfield is completely overrun, how do we counter? Sneijder isn't a defensive player, he won't track back and win the thing, which leaves us with Carrick to do that by himself.
We need someone who can intercept and still pass well and hold the ball up, prime examples being Busquets and Schweingster, they'd be perfect, obviously neither are available but it's the sort of mould we should be looking towards.
Check out how many games Carrick and Giggs played together away from home, that'll kill this argument.
When SAF finally decided these 2 were his men, we played the best stuff I've seen us play in a long time.
Maybe Barca is unfair, but still, Carrick and Giggs only played together v Chelsea and Barca (when it came to good teams), Fergie obviously didn't trust them against other teams.
Our midfield got overrun no matter what we played last year, even if we played 4-3-3. I just don't understand why people think Sneijder would fix that, because he doesn't track back, you need to actually get the ball TO him, he won't win the thing himself.
Giggs isn't a defensive player either, and our best football came with him in the team. I don't think we need to be so negative as to have 2 holding midfielders. Fletcher aint that bad but we were AWFUL last season with him and Carrick in the team as they offered us nothing going forward.
Agree on Bastian though, he'd be my top choice.
Makes no sense, he trusted them in our hardest games but not in other games
Pool and Arse weren't hard?
I think Fergie got it spot on against Chelsea, for whatever reason it just worked, but because it worked he did it against Barca too and it failed miserably (I know I know, Barca etc, but that's the only other example I have)
Seriously, back to what I previously said, how does Sneijder help us if our midfield is being pressed really heavily and we don't have the ball? Will he win it himself? CAN he win it himself?
Giggs had to play on the wing vs. Pool as Park and Valencia were out. Vs. Arsenal it was Giggsy's old legs that kept him out after playing so recently (and possibly something with a court injunction too).
How can our midfield be pressed if we don't have the ball?
Our problems in the away games last year for my money were the midfielders inability to deal with pressure when we had the ball, and that's what improved dramatically when Giggs stepped in. Our problem wasn't getting the ball back, it was keeping it when we had it.
Fletcher and Carrick are both great at winning the ball, but we played awful with those 2, I don't understand why you think another adaptation of the Carrick Fletcher partnership will be so much better.
The old Scholes is what we missed last year, and he doesn't go winning the ball either, what he does do is protect and keep the ball when we have it, despite the pressure being put on.
But if the midfield is pressed, how do we get the ball back when it's lost. If we're pushed further and further back, Sneijder is way out of position and isn't capable of winning the thing back. And to be honest, I've watched him a fair bit and seen nothing to suggest he can keep the thing and slow things down as well as Scholes, Busquets, Schweinstiger (who were all able to operate far better in a deeper role). He's far more of an attacker and has never been expected to keep the ball and hold up play, only to swiftly move it around.
Don't get me wrong, I will not be heart-broken if we get a player as damned good as Sneijder is, but my original point was that if we do fork out £35m on a player it should be someone who fits in that position. I don't want to see Rooney thrown out of his favorite role again (by the way, talk about Giggs and Carrick all you want, but Rooney was immense in all of those games. He was the only one who actually did anything against Barca).
It seems 50/50 here on Sneijder. If we sign him? Good, no problem. But I'd be much happier if we got 2 very talented young(ish) players like Defour, M'Vila etc who CAN play the role I'm suggesting.
I think peoples opinion around here is that we badly need a playmaker, but I don't, because we already have one in Rooney, and we need to play him where he should be played.
Rooney was good against Barcelona but what role did Hernandez play in his performance? Nothing Rooney did would have been impossible if Hernandez wasn't on the pitch, in fact he'd have probably got more of the ball if we could put someone closer to him.
Messi has been playing up front on his own all season in exactly the same role Rooney has and having Iniesta near him hasn't exactly hurt him. There is more than one way of playing as a lone striker and if we have support from central midfield and wingers cutting in it might even make Rooney more effective in that withdrawn role.
As much as I'd like it, we cant have a one size fits all tactic for Wolves, Arsenal and Barcelona, Hernandez is either going to have to learn to play in a wide role ala Villa or sit on the bench in the big games.
Messi has been playing up front on his own all season in exactly the same role Rooney has and having Iniesta near him hasn't exactly hurt him. There is more than one way of playing as a lone striker and if we have support from central midfield and wingers cutting in it might even make Rooney more effective in that withdrawn role.
As much as I'd like it, we cant have a one size fits all tactic for Wolves, Arsenal and Barcelona, Hernandez is either going to have to learn to play in a wide role ala Villa or sit on the bench in the big games.
The Barca front 3 are all versatile forwards who can chip and chop all over the place between them. As Rio said "they have no striker". We in no way have players capable of that.
Rooney's goal wouldn't have happened without Hernandez on the pitch
Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez > Messi, Pedro and Villa
IMO.
More heart and bottle, shame Tevez was thick as a log and Ronaldo well if he truly followed his dream, what can be said. If I played for Madrid and was the best player in the world, I'd force a move to United too.
I'm sorry but you can hardly call Hernandez's role in Rooney's goal anything but minor, it wasn't even a particularly clever run and he ended up off side so he couldn't have put away any rebound. If he didn't track Hernandez he'd have had to pick up Park.
Rooney and Hernandez didn't link up at all in the final, the few attempts he did make to find pea where spoiled by his inability to beat Barca's off side trap.
I'd agree with that too. Imagine if all 3 had played their best football at the same time. We'd be where Barcelona are now.
What could have been. Sigh.
Onwards and upwards lads, the boy Wayne is still here, Hernandez is the new candle!
Don't forget, while Patrice Evra is amongst our ranks, God plays for us.
Don't forget, while Patrice Evra is amongst our ranks, God plays for us.
Pretty sure if you put "thousand years ago" below the shirt numbers you've got a pretty accurate depiction of the evolution of man there.
Do you remember the lads who said Rooney and Tevez couldn't play together? 
Buy Aguero and Sanchez, and or bring Ronnie back. Even better then.
Never fear lads, me and spoony are on this.
Never fear lads, me and spoony are on this.
People are idiots if they think Sneijder can't play in a 2 man midfield. fecking idiots.
I think most people think he probably can, and I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Sneijder, but his best position is where Rooney plays just now, isn't it? I prefer to see players playing in their best position, especially if you would have to fork out £30-40 million on them. If he did play in a 2-man midfield, with 2 striker and 2 wingers ahead of him, just how much running around and covering would his midfield partner have to do to accommodate him?
Having said that, if we get him (I'm still not convinced we are actually after him), Fergie will no doubt have a master plan of how to have all of our best players on the pitch at the same time so I'm not concerned in the slightest.
To think we could have lost all three of the Holy Trinity mk2 back in October
But I miss the 3 of them playing together
Rooney and Tevez vs Boro was some mindblowing stuff!
But I miss the 3 of them playing together
Rooney and Tevez vs Boro was some mindblowing stuff!
Well, it's pretty debatable. We had all 3 of them prior to Rome and only 2 started, and 1 was playing out on the wing and the other was only interested in taking glory for himself by shooting from all angles.
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