I don't think we'll buy in RB cover, my guess is Jones, Smalling and Valencia will continue to be used as makeshift cover while Varela develops.
We will sign 7 players minimum this Summer
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
I still think it's ambitious, but more realistic than my view on first teamers. It will be a maximum of 5 people, with my prediction of 4 coming in.
We'll sign four or five I reckon. A left-back, a couple of centre-midfielders, and a centre-back.
The problem at spurs went further than that - it wasn't just the amount of players that came in, it was the quality of them. The two big bucks signings Lamela and Soldado have been absolute disasters so far, while Capoue and Chadli are just poor footballers. They'd have saved about 80m if they'd just got Eriksen (good), Chiriches and Paulinho (decent).7 would be a nightmare really, look at spurs this year buying every man and his dog then trying to bed them all in.
We realistically need 3 new lads, 2 midfielders and a left back. With Smalling, Evans Jones and Rio (if he stays) then possibly Michael Keane we are kind of ok in the CB slot. That could last us the season, or until jan if were lacking.
I'd be looking at Carvalho, Strootman, Pjanic, Kroos (long shot), Shaw (really want this one). These types, no more signing like fellaini, young, these showers of shite just don't go with our team and shouldn't have been brought here.
After this shambles of a season too i just want us to build a solid base and get competitive again, never mind the title, that would be an added bonus. We need to build the foundation for the years of domination we have aheadand get back to enjoying match days.
The draw of Spurs was such that they were never going to attract the top band of players but as far as those last three go they've done well. Most people thought Lamela and Soldado would be good too. We will attract a higher calibre of player, worth a higher amount of money, and will always have a much better chance of recruiting top talent than Spurs. I agree that signing upwards of 6 or 7 would be destabilising but likewise 3 or 4 are an absolute necessity if we want to challenge for honours in the short term.
I would say this is our list too, plus (fingers crossed) a class winger. I just can't go through another season of Young and Valencia.
I know it's supposed to be said in jest, but in reality we actually could do with 8 new players.
1 CM + 1 LB is crucial for me. Would like another CM and one winger as well with Young hopefully leaving. I don't particularly want another CB because I rate Evans, Jones and especially Smalling very highly, and I think next season is the time for them to show if they're actually going to top quality CBs or perennial squad players for the rest of their time here.
The only way I could see us signing as many as 7 players is if we were to sign a couple of kids who we'd directly loan back out (a Henriquez or Zaha).
I wouldn't mind us signing Carvalho, but as we've already got Carrick in what would be Carvalho's spot, I wouldn't consider him as crucial a signing as a creative midfielder would be. A Kroos or Fabregas type signing, maybe even Herrera, is number one priority, in my opinion. But if we could get both a defensive midfielder and a creative one, great. From what I've heard about van Gaal and his tactics, Carvalho would fit in well behind two more advanced midfielders (Carrick/Mata and another creative midfielder as said).
Hopefully if we sign those two midfielders we'll also see the backs of Anderson and, wishful thinking here, Fellaini.
We also need a left-back too, that'll probably be Shaw, but I guess Jetro Williems wouldn't be bad. I've seen his name mentioned a few times on here.
That'd do it for me. However, a central defender certainly wouldn't go amiss, and neither would a left-winger. And, unless one of them is happy to sit on the bench, one of Rooney and van Persie might have to leave.
Hopefully if we sign those two midfielders we'll also see the backs of Anderson and, wishful thinking here, Fellaini.
We also need a left-back too, that'll probably be Shaw, but I guess Jetro Williems wouldn't be bad. I've seen his name mentioned a few times on here.
That'd do it for me. However, a central defender certainly wouldn't go amiss, and neither would a left-winger. And, unless one of them is happy to sit on the bench, one of Rooney and van Persie might have to leave.
There was also the problem of AVB not actually wanting half of them. Having players signed for you and then being pressured into playing them is never going to work out.
We need a new first team & reserves, plus a few spares
So let's say we sign 11+11+37
So 84 new players
So let's say we sign 11+11+37
So 84 new players
Finally aiming for treble, I see.
7 new players.. In the first year out of the Champions League in 20 odd years..
Seems legit.
Seems legit.
We'll buy 3 players I reckon. 2 midfielders and a left back.
Our attack is good enough for the league, and our central defence should have enough numbers to carry through a 38 game season (+a few FA Cup games).
Our attack is good enough for the league, and our central defence should have enough numbers to carry through a 38 game season (+a few FA Cup games).
If Carvalho is really that good. Then what I think his signing will be very useful for us. He can play as a centre back. He has pace as well. So if Evans, Jones and Smalling are injured. Carvalho can cover our CB position. We don't need to worry too much if we can't get a CB this summer.
As for Carrick I think we have to remember that he will turn 33 years old in July. So I won't expect too much on him next season. As for creativity. I think we can rely on out attacking midfield or wide players at the moment like Mata, Kagawa, Adnan and Welbeck. Carvalho is a typical of sideway passes so we can explode these 4 players.
I can't see any available quality creativity centre midfield at the moment. We should went for Cabaye last January or Thiago in last summer. Kroos agent already said he won't leave Bayern this summer (might leave in 2015/2016). While Fabregas, I can't see him leaving when Xavi isn't getting young anymore. I don't think Herrera is that good. Watched his game twice this season. He hasn't impressed me at all. We could wait for creative centre midfield another season. I just can't see anyone available.
The fact that we won a lot of games with 4-0 and 3-0 shows that our attackers are really good. But we conceded a lot of goals against big team shows how weak is our defense. Improve the defense first I would say.
But is the defence good enough? Carrying us through doesn't sound promising
Using our current centre back and signing a quality left back and may be a right back and also a quality defensive midfield would improve the defense.
A proper defensive midfielder would make the world of difference for our defence IMO. One of the main issues we've had defensively is the acres of space attackers had to run at the centre halves, who were massively exposed on a regular basis.
I know we had this disucssion the other day
I agree that adding a left back, and a defensive midfielder will help the situation, I just don't see a Jones / Smalling / Evans partnership being that good, right now anyway.
I know with a string of games together, they could improve, but what if they didn't?
What if we have a troubled start to the season, the manager would chop and change again, and the run of games wouldn't happen.
I also think Smalling and Jones have quite a few injuriy problems, so them getting this run will also be a struggle
I would love the partnership to work, two young English men, building a partnership for years to come, I am just skeptical, and a CB would be a priority signing for me
3!!!
LB, CM, proper winger.
Anything else would be a bonus
LB, CM, proper winger.
Anything else would be a bonus
I know we had this disucssion the other day
I agree that adding a left back, and a defensive midfielder will help the situation, I just don't see a Jones / Smalling / Evans partnership being that good, right now anyway.
I know with a string of games together, they could improve, but what if they didn't?
What if we have a troubled start to the season, the manager would chop and change again, and the run of games wouldn't happen.
I also think Smalling and Jones have quite a few injuriy problems, so them getting this run will also be a struggle
I would love the partnership to work, two young English men, building a partnership for years to come, I am just skeptical, and a CB would be a priority signing for me
I think a proper midfielder and a LB will automatically make the center backs better by providing more cover and protection.
I don't any CB pair in the world will look good by being constantly exposed left right(to some extend) and center. With that protection will come more confidence leading to more solid performances. Also, I think they are both very similar to Wellbeck in that they miss a little bit to become really really good.
Surely we need more than 3.
Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Giggs, Anderson and maybe even Young/Nani will leave.
3 CBs next season would be a disaster, they get injured far to much
Okay for example 4 CB next season + Michael Keane = 5. And what are we going to do? Rotate the 4 of them? Do you like the idea of rotating a pair of centre backs? Because I don't. The reason why Vidic and Rio are the best partnership not because their quality only but also how they understand each other by playing together at the same time.
Worry about injury prone? This is how other team solve the problem. They make their defensive midfield as a centre back as well. Buquest (Barcelona), Mascherano (Barcelona) and Javi Martinez (Bayern) If we can get a defensive midfield who has pace and can defend and pass then I won't worry too much.
Will Keane would do a lot better staying on loan at Leicester next season for a start.
Some players just have to play second fiddle. Brown, O'shea did it. Hernandez is doing it
I totally agree a CB pairing should be kept the same as much as possible, I just don't think Jones / Smalling is good enough. Perfect to come on as subs, or play a more bit part role.
As I said, why should we stand still, when teams around us are willing to improve. City buying Mangala for example. Kompany / Nastastic is a good pairing, but Kompany / Mangala is a lot better.
As for midfielders coming defenders. I think that is more of a style thing. Barca do it because they play so high up field, and like players who can pass from anywhere on the pitch. (Exactly what Pep is now doing at Bayern, hence Martinez)
Why don't Madrid use Khedeira, Gerrard for Liverpool, Toure for City etc. It's not ideal at all.
As said, we have used Carrick on defence at times out of desperation, and it's not a pretty sight
Its how we solve the problem as well... carrick
You are missing the point of discussion.
We were talking about signing defensive midfield and left back and may be right back would improve the defense. That's why we need to sign a defensive midfield who has pace, can defend and can pass. And use him as a defensive midfield or cover centre back. Not using the current defensive midfield as a centre back. By the way Carrick did really well as a centre back against West Ham.
Will? Michael*
If you think they (Smalling and Jones) are not good enough then sell them and buy a new centre back. Why do you want stop the development of a young centre back by not playing them in their prefer position as a centre back. I rather see them leaving than stay without being used. If you like to keep them then I can see you like the idea of rotating 4 centre backs because none of them want to just sit on the bench.
So you think Mangala is a world class "right now"? At the moment I don't see him as great or as close as Vidic or Rio or Thiago Silva level yet.
Isn't it that's the reason why we are targeting a defensive midfield like william carvalho who can also play as a centre back. Carrick is most likely to me as a deeplying playmaker. He did really well against West Ham as a centre back though. Well, that's why I said if we can get a defensive midfield who has pace, can defend and can pass. I don't see Carrick as a pace player and he always stay on his feet while making tackle.
Khedira is a defensive midfield? Why would they play Yaya as a centre back when they have centre back who are available. Gerrard has a great defensive work? Why would they play Gerrard as a centre back when they have centre back who are available for a match.
I don't think every defensive midfield can play as a centre back. But fortunately for us our target in the rumors "William Carvalho" can play as a centre back.
we will not buy 7 players. We do not need 7 players. We have youth to bring in and give a chance. Players like Keane, Zaha, Powell, Januzaj. Let's see what happens with Evra and Rio. I would be happy with 3 players MAX. The squad does not need a complete overhaul. We need to sort the problems that have plagued this team for a few seasons now. 2 CM's would be a start.
Good post. Agree with all of that to be honest.
I do think Januzaj on the wings is a good option though. So far this season he has been very impressive out there, taking on players and has some nice pace/acceleration.
Why would we waste a 30 million for Mangala when we have Smalling. Both are similar player. And I don't think they both are far different level. Even if we go for Mangala, fair enough quality CB. But do you really think he will choose us when we have Jones, Smalling and Evans fighting for 2 places. While City has Lescott, Kompany, Nastasic and Demi. I don't think Lescott and Demi are good enough to challenge Mangala.
As for your points about Gerrard, Khedeira etc, to start off with. The reason they don't have to use them as CBs is because they have sufficient cover at CB.
Lets look at Real for example. Their central defenders are Pepe, Ramos, Varane and Nacho.
Varane is probably one of the best young defenders out there. How many times has he started in the league this season....10
You could say he has similar / more potential than Jones and Smalling, but has only started 10 games this season. Why, because Real choose to go with 2 better, more experienced defenders right now.
You're telling me that Mangala would be more concerned about joining United who have Smallings, Evans and Jones over City who have Kompany, Nastatic and Demichellis. He would have much more playing time here than at City, but is good enough to be a first team player for both teams. I am not saying he is better than what Silva is, but he is better than what Ferdinand and Vidic are, not as good as they where, but that is in the past.
Jones and Smalling may well form a very good partnership, and I really hope they do, but they are quite unproven so far. When they have played together, they have been very hit and miss. Whose to say that after a few games together they will all of a sudden become an excellent duo?
What happens after 5-8 games and they are struggling to build a partnership, we are stuck then.
As for the obsession with Carvalho in defence. Players need to play in position. We see it with Kagawa, Mata, Smalling and Jones at RB. If it's not their preferred position, it doesn't always work out.
Teams go into each season with 4 defenders. Why should we go with 3 (Yes I know you mention Keane, but he will do much better out on loan for one more season)
The RB is a big problem, rafael is not good enough and always injured. the others are out of role
Sigh.
I'm sorry but at United I want better players.
I think Rafael is fine. Has had a few injury problems this season, last season he was the best RB in the league in my opinion.
I don't think the defence around him has helped this season. I do think when he has played, he hasn't done as well this season, but I think thats down to the tactics. When he pushes up, he leaves gaps, which is expected by all wing backs, but the defenders have not helped cover the exposed area's. Due to lack of pace in my opinion (Ferdinand and Vidic that is)
Do you really think Gerrard can do good in defend? What is the first thing in your mind about centre back? Defending? I don't think he can do defend well while he was original a centre midfield and centre attacking midfield. How do you expect a manager to pick a player who can't defend well as a centre back
Do you really think Khedira is a defensive midfield? He's a centre midfield and play more as an advance role than defensive role. If he's a centre back, player like Drogba, Welbeck, Ibra, Cavani will bully him with strength and energy. That's why he never play as a centre back. How do you expect the manager to choose a small guy as a centre back?
You don't make a midfield who can't defend and with no strength as a centre back. And I never say so. All I say was we can use our new signing defensive midfield as a cover of centre back too so we don't have to worry too much to sign a new centre back since it's not the main priority when we already have 3 + 1 youth. Fair enough signing a centre back. But solve the midfield first and left back. Or even right back. Defensive midfield, left back and right back additional will improve the defense enough.
Nacho only started 6 matches, and their 4th centre back. I could see Michael Keane or Rio Ferdinand will do similar thing (6 matches).
Well, that's what I'm saying right. If you have Mangala, Evans, Jones, Smalling. Then how can you expect Jones and Smalling to get more experience. Unless you like the idea of rotating them. But I don't like the idea of rotating pair of centre back. Have some faith!! Unless you want to sell one of them, then I'll agree that we need to spend 30 million for Mangala. Or unless we convert Jones as a defensive midfield then I'll agree that we need to spend 30 million for Mangala.
Yes!! How come you think he has much more playing time with us than in City? Are you saying that Lescott and Demichelis makes Mangala concern? I don't know what you are thinking but I think Evans and Smalling and Jones are much better defender than Lescott and Demichelis. Nastasic even has been more injury prone than Evans and Jones this season. City needs a centre back much more than we do. Their defenders are currently more crisis than us. They only have Kompany, the rest of their centre back are not better than our current three centre back. So it makes sense that they are willing to spend 30 million on centre back.
Sorry, but if we are talking about class. It means we are talking about the past of Vidic and Rio. I don't know why you want to compare the current Rio and Vidic with Mangala.
To me our best partnership for next season is Smalling and Evans. I don't mind if we sign Mangala. But I don't want us signing a 30 million to a position we already have enough and leave blank on left back and midfielders. It's unfair to judge them since they don't get enough chance to play together as a pair of centre back. While Smalling have been playing as a right back more than as a centre back.
You are missing the point of playing William Carvalho as a centre back. We have 4 centre back (Evans, Smalling, Jones, Keane/Rio) already and if the 3 of them injured we can put Carvalho as a centre back. The chance of three of them injure is slimer than than our right back condition. Because we only have one right back in our team. If we have 2 right back and yet two of them injured, I don't see why can't we play Jones or Smalling in there as a more backup option. William as a centre back is only as a more centre back backup option.
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First of all, Gerrard can defend quite well. It's not his natural type of play, but he can defend, and would do a better job than the likes of Carrick. I don't expect a manager to pick Gerrard as a defender, but he could play there if needs be, like Carrick could, but would it be comfortable....No. Carvalho may be an ok defender, but again, it's not his main position
I assume you mean small as in build, because he is about 6ft2", and again, is very good defensively, but as I said, I wouldn't want to play him in defence.
As for a small guy as a center back, a few posts back you said teams like Barca play defensive midfielders in defence...You mentioned Mascherano. What is he...5'8 or so?
I agree, there are some more important positions that need filling first....LB and CDM of course, but I still believe a CB is up there on the to do list.
Why not give Varela a chance, rather than signing another RB. You want Carvalho as a potential player who can slot into defence when needed. Well why not do that with Jones and Smalling at RB. In my opinion, they are not good enough there, but again, it's not their natural positions. A CB is clearly more needed than a RB right now
This is what I am saying. Varane is a top defender, who is young, yet he plays second fiddle to an experienced pair at the back. Jones and / or Smalling in my mind have to do that also. I don't want to rotate in defence. I want a reliable pairing at CB, and I just don't think they are it. They also get injured to much to play a full season together.
I'd happily sell Smalling if it meant improving our back line.
As for Jones at CDM. He played some of his best football their 2 seasons ago. So far, I think he has shone there, a lot more than in defence, although I do think he will be a defender.
Kompany is a guaranteed starter at City. Demichelis to be fair hasn't had that bad of a season. I think the press have made a lot more people think he has been worse than he really has been this season.
Mangala would always play second fiddle to Kompany, and although I believe would start the majority of games, he would sometimes be dropped for others in the odd matches. Nastatic does have a few injury problems, but he is better than both Jones and Smalling currently
As for United, Mangala would be the number 1 choice at CB. He would be the one we rely on. He would start every game that he is fit, then it would be a decision of who plays with him. Is he better than what Vidic or Ferdinand was? No, but is anybody available who are better than they were
Right now, I would prefer Jones and Evans, but I do think they are all of similar quality. Again, I do think there are other area's we need to improve first, but the squad in general does need a bit of an overhaul
I think we should just agree to disagree
We have taken over this thread
We have taken over this thread
Keep going folks. Great pre-transfer window thread before the summer rollercoaster ride through madness.
Keep going folks. Great pre-transfer window thread before the summer rollercoaster ride through madness.