We are bottlers

Wayne's World said:
But Ole said Trophies doesn't matter.....

while we watch City win all four and create history. Wonder in 20 years time will we remember finishing 2nd in the 20/21 season?
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You know that what he meant was that winning the odd trophy one rather that developing a great team that matures to win consistently over a few years was vanity right?

Winning trophies is what its about but fluking an FA cup while the squad it shit would mask the real problems...

he's saying that the way that City manage themselves is superior to the way we did under Mourinho.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
No, its their fault we're so incompetent in every aspect. Its their fault we play the same exact way in every game. Its their fault we look so disinterested. Its their fault we always start off so slow.

They aren't good. Theres a reason why van Gaal and Jose at their absolute worst managed to win trophies because thats what great managers can do. They know how to. This current lot are absolutely fecking clueless.
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Yep it’s all the coaching boogeymen of whom you know nothing about.
 
We were top of the league in January and 15 points behind by the end of February. That is shocking.
 
Christ. Why does everything has to be some deep rooted issue?

1. Our starting line up was a weakened side. I am sure some people will claim its disgraceful, but personally i think its much more important to focus on the PL and EL
2. Leichesters first and second goal were completely avoidable. Giving away two cheap goals like that is going to bite you in the arse
3. We only had 2 full days rest after a tough away fixture in Europe, they had a whole week
4. Leichester are a good side

Disappointing, but shit like that happens
 
Mr.Ridiculous__ said:
Ah yes the Redcafe condescension. Love it.

Remind me again how we are in the Europa league in the first place after getting a commanding position in the group stages. Remind me again of points we dropped this season unnecessarily to end up 11 pts behind city. The Carabao cup exit. At what point do we acknowledge that at key moments we are lacking.
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but we won a couple matches a couple days ago. Totally offsets the disappointment of missing out on another trophy in almost 3 years. Specialists in excuses
 
Wayne's World said:
But Ole said Trophies doesn't matter.....

while we watch City win all four and create history. Wonder in 20 years time will we remember finishing 2nd in the 20/21 season?
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So we fluke a win today, get past a weak Southampton side and are 1 game away from a trophy would prove what exactly?
 
Bottle jobs. I’ve been saying it for a while now, we can put some good runs of form together throughout a season but when the pressures really on and it’s time to deliver we come up short time and time again. Securing top 4 on the last day last season seems like the exception to the rule.
 
Bobcat said:
Christ. Why does everything has to be some deep rooted issue?

1. Our starting line up was a weakened side. I am sure some people will claim its disgraceful, but personally i think its much more important to focus on the PL and EL
2. Leichesters first and second goal were completely avoidable. Giving away two cheap goals like that is going to bite you in the arse
3. We only had 2 full days rest after a tough away fixture in Europe, they had a whole week
4. Leichester are a good side

Disappointing, but shit like that happens
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Again, this isn't just this game.
 
padzilla said:
Being ahead of a club with a fraction of our resources is no achievement.
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I know. But for some people, that doesn't matter. We finished 3rd last year, we're 2nd this year (point off third mind) so we've shown progression. Nothing else matters.
 
cyberman said:
So we fluke a win today, get past a weak Southampton side and are 1 game away from a trophy would prove what exactly?
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Uhh that we have what it takes to win a trophy? You know, the point of winning games. You're supposed to win till it happens
 
It doesn’t come from the manager, it comes from the players. Some players have the elite mentality and some don’t. Too many of ours don’t. Jose has that mentality and he can’t do shit with teams any more.
 
Mr.Ridiculous__ said:
It's not a personnel issue. The mentality and the ability to take pressure of this club and its players is absolutely garbage. It's why we don't capitalize on moments to secure CL progress, we get dumped out of cups, we succumb to shit teams when we have a chance of title race. I am not sure where the blame lies.

Edit: Let me make it pristinely clear. We are a team of utter bottlers. It comes from the manager and the players aren't any improvement.
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No leadership in the dugout or on the pitch. We play pretty football when we can be arsed, but when we don't fancy it there's no accountability.
 
Mr.Ridiculous__ said:
Ah yes the Redcafe condescension. Love it.

Remind me again how we are in the Europa league in the first place after getting a commanding position in the group stages. Remind me again of points we dropped this season unnecessarily to end up 11 pts behind city. The Carabao cup exit. At what point do we acknowledge that at key moments we are lacking.
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Case in point. Cup exit. It MUST be a mentality issue!!!!! It's such a half-baked point that arises every single time a team loses a key game. Those people remain completely oblivious to the notion that we had to win several keys games to get in that position in the first place. And if we had lost those keys games, then those same posts about lacking mentality would've already been written.

We have to go all the way back to 3 days ago to see a team playing poorly and going out on away goals in Milan, to then rally and win the game and qualify. No mental fortitude there though. Ironically, we lost today to a side that just limped out of that same competition to Slavia Prague. But no, they aren't mentally weak because they won today. Much like City are imperious, unless they lose in the CL, and that will be because they have a mentality issue when it comes to the CL, the same mentality issue they apparently had when they were dragging their heels at the beginning of the season. Which of course is now the criticism levelled at Liverpool, who had the mental fortitude of the 300 up until they, well didn't. It's the lazy, unimaginative missing piece. Of course, today's loss couldn't possibly have anything to do with playing half fit, disjointed team we had out today.
 
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Football this bad is only acceptable when there are trophies to justify it. That looks a long way off. If Pogba or Bruno don’t turn it on we have nothing to offer.
 
Bobcat said:
Two days ago we just got through in the EL after a less than favorable home result, a couple of weeks ago we won to massive games vs City and West Ham in the PL to fasten our grip on top 4.

Leichester were the better side today, that does not mean we're suddenly a bunch of fannies.
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Less than favorable home result? You mean when we conceded at the last moment because we couldn't calm ourselves down? This is after missing multiple sitters in the same game.
 
Bubz27 said:
Absolutely this. Any time anyone argues we're not bottlers, they use the Leicester game last year as proof. 1 in their favour. 4 semi finals and Leipzig and today against them.

Even today, we find out it's Saints in the semi. A legit chance to win a semi against a team we.are categorically better than. Not like City or Chelsea where it could go either way. So what do we do? Bottle the quarter final against a decent team instead.
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If leicester didn't go on a bottling spree last season we wouldn't have qualified. Fact is leicester bottled it more than us.
 
Or maybe we just lost to one of the best teams in the country who have spent the whole week resting and focusing on this game after a 5-0 victory. It happens.
 
Leftback99 said:
Or maybe we just lost to one of the best teams in the country who have spent the whole week resting and focusing on this game after a 5-0 victory. It happens.
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Do you honestly not feel there's something in it though? We did the double on City and Chelsea last year, but cup semis we lose convincingly v both. Sevilla, 1-0 up and lose with a whimper.
 
charlenefan said:
We secured UCL football away to today's team on the last day of the season last season? Unless there's a collapse we've secured qualification comfortably this season as well

We've been knocked out today at the quarter final stage, hardly a daunting stage of the competition is it
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Top four trophy. Let’s parade it through Manchester
 
The most important game domestically and Ole makes some bullshit comments about trophies and that filters down to the players.
I remember all those times we played Bruno when we could have rested him but now Ole decides he needs a rest when we need him most, apparently Bruno wanted to play but today it looked like he’s asshole dropped. The mentality of Ole is not what United needs and although I’m Ole in I accept he won’t take us to the highest level unless he changes he’s mentality.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
What alternative team selection would you make? Considering our starting 11 are shattered having played 2 games a week minimum for months.
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It’s all ifs and buts at this point, but Fred-Matic really doesn’t work as a partnership nor did VdB, Martial, Greenwood and Pogba. It’s done now though so nothing to do but move on.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Oh the irony. Come off your high horse.

You've an incredible ability in identifying bad player performances but never bad coaching ones.
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Well, I watch the players during the game. I don’t watch the coaches during training sessions and I’ve a sneaking suspicion you don’t either.
 
Guardiola has said that the reason they (City) are so good is because ‘We have a lot of money and buy the best players’. It’s not hard to figure that out. United have money and buy average players and pay too much. We still have not found a leader to, well lead the team. Apart from the Keeper situation, there is no real competition for places and individuals are not applying themselves. Yes they played Thursday night, but Scaffolders work every day for months on end and they have to be on form or accidents happen. The board need a shake up and a winning mentality needs to be the norm.
 
If ever a game summed up where this club has been and will continue to go it was today. The painful realisation that under this coaching regime.

- we'll just about finish top 4 most seasons
- promising moments from individuals
- dull, unimaginative and incoherent football for the majority of games
- highly unlikely to ever win any trophies because in order to do so you have to better the best sides and best managers in crunch games . This is why we keep getting knocked out in quarters and semis because our manager isn't good enough to win these games
- occasionally turn up and game raise for games against city and Liverpool
- The occasional unbeaten run that's littered with draws
- terrible recruitment. We spent more on van de beek than Leicester did on tielemans. Let that sink in .

Watching that game unfold I wasn't even angry. Because everything that happened is completely expected and is in keeping with what we've seen for two and a half years and we will continue to see happen.

Our “success” will now be measured by finishing in the top 4, going on pointless unbeaten runs and occasionally beating Man City.
Peak loser mentality at this football club.

Our transformation into Arsenal is nearly complete except our football is boring as shit and we’ve spend bucketloads to reach this.
 
Isn't this obvious? A manager has a job for life here as long as he gets 4th year after year. That's not a winning mentality.
 
Will Singh said:
The most important game domestically and Ole makes some bullshit comments about trophies and that filters down to the players.
I remember all those times we played Bruno when we could have rested him but now Ole decides he needs a rest when we need him most, apparently Bruno wanted to play but today it looked like he’s asshole dropped. The mentality of Ole is not what United needs and although I’m Ole in I accept he won’t take us to the highest level unless he changes he’s mentality.
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Playing Bruno when 4-0 up v Sociedad. Not playing him today.

Did 45 minutes of football at half pace push Bruno over the edge? Obviously not. But it's everything else that comes with the rest. Preparing for the game, being at the stadium, mentall preparing for the game. Bruno shouldn't even have had to think about that Sociedad 2nd leg. Should've been in a club suit in the stands or at home watching on TV. Fully resting physically and mentally.
 
Bubz27 said:
Do you honestly not feel there's something in it though? We did the double on City and Chelsea last year, but cup semis we lose convincingly v both. Sevilla, 1-0 up and lose with a whimper.
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No. One team has to win, it doesn't have to mean the other team 'bottled it' every time. These are mostly 50/50 games.
 
I love Ole but we really do need someone who will not put up with shit performances from their players. Too many passengers in games.

he needs to have a talking to, or screaming, to a lot of our players.
 
Bubz27 said:
Absolutely this. Any time anyone argues we're not bottlers, they use the Leicester game last year as proof. 1 in their favour. 4 semi finals and Leipzig and today against them.

Even today, we find out it's Saints in the semi. A legit chance to win a semi against a team we.are categorically better than. Not like City or Chelsea where it could go either way. So what do we do? Bottle the quarter final against a decent team instead.
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We can't even get a semi anymore :(
 
Confirmed once again. It's not even losing. It's the way we lost.

The performances from the usual suspects and the terrible mistakes by the manager and coaches
 
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