We are bottlers

[RashyForPM]

Doesn’t coming from behind also sort of suggest we play better with the pressure off. It’s only when we go a goal down and we’ve nothing to lose that we play with freedom.

I actually think pressure is on. Imagine Manchester United losing against Fulham or Southampton and not throwing the kitchen sink to come back. I think it shows a strong mentality to come back. Shame we couldn’t do it against Sheff U.

 

[ivaldo]

We are clearly mentally weak. The amount of semi finals and must win games where we have failed to perform is more than enough to confirm this.

Beating bottom half teams from a goal down in the premiership midway through the season does not hide the fact when the pressure is really on our players cannot handle it.

Clearly we arent. A mentally weak team doesn't routinely come from behind as we have done. It's ridiculous really. If we went out in the quarters, we would've bottled it. If we lost in the final, you would say we bottled it. It's almost like losing=bottling it.

 

[sparx99]

How else could you explain Wednesday night then if not for poor mentality?

Games like Wednesday night so just happen from time to time and we had been on a long unbeaten run.

What does concern me is that we’ve lost all those semi-finals and as soon as we hit top spot we’ve dropped 7pts from our last 12 available in the league.

The one big factor that I think is forgotten is that we played 9 games in January. Even in this busy season that’s a lot of games. We may need to think carefully about how we prioritise competitions because the FA cup or Europa league could be a real burden this season.

 

[El Zoido]

Games like Wednesday night so just happen from time to time and we had been on a long unbeaten run.

What does concern me is that we’ve lost all those semi-finals and as soon as we hit top spot we’ve dropped 7pts from our last 12 available in the league.

The one big factor that I think is forgotten is that we played 9 games in January. Even in this busy season that’s a lot of games. We may need to think carefully about how we prioritise competitions because the FA cup or Europa league could be a real burden this season.

Said it all along that the Europa league would ruin our season. I was hoping that if we stayed around the top spot then Ole would drop the EL. Now we’ve already dropped out of a title race, he’ll probably go all-in to win EL.

 

[sparx99]

I actually think pressure is on. Imagine Manchester United losing against Fulham or Southampton and not throwing the kitchen sink to come back. I think it shows a strong mentality to come back. Shame we couldn’t do it against Sheff U.

Just visually I think we try to play with control to start games and then concede a dumb goal. Afterwards we seem to pass and move and commit bodies forward and lo and behold we start scoring goals.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Not bottlers but we certainly lack character and experience in winning.

If we win something, anything, then I wouldn't be at-all surprised that this United team finally kick-on and start properly competing for the big prizes.

 

[ghaliboy]

I've been saying it for four years. There is no consequences to what we are doing, every single loss and slip in the table as well as out of cups can be atoned for by saying "ah well Fergie was awesome wasn't he". We've built our castle and if we don't have the right mentality guys to maintain it, we will just fall back into ruin. Sad but true, connect our on field component to what the recruitment team is doing and it is obvious we're going to struggle to go anywhere.

Overpaid, overadored, oversheltered from criticism and underachieving. Nobody can hit the heights required when all of those things are riddled within the squad.

 

[Wilt]

PL ‘Big 6’ games ....1 goal (penalty) from 540 minutes play

 

[passing-wind]

We've won a ridiculous amount of points away from home from losing positions, but yeah, we're mentally weak. Dogshit thread.

Two winners making a good factual points about the teams mentality. Have you seen the level of intensity in our two most recent performances it was absolutely shambolic. That in itself without tactical analysis tells us what the players think of themselves and what the manager thinks of his opportunity. It doesn't mean we sack Solskjaer but it's evident he's clearly displaying a ceiling as to how far he can take the squad.

Coming back from games is more a derivative of team spirit. Solskjaer has absolutely nailed the culture of this team down but the mentality the team display is not one of winners and Ole has done nothing to signify bridging that gap.

 

[AltiUn]

I've been saying it for four years. There is no consequences to what we are doing, every single loss and slip in the table as well as out of cups can be atoned for by saying "ah well Fergie was awesome wasn't he". We've built our castle and if we don't have the right mentality guys to maintain it, we will just fall back into ruin. Sad but true, connect our on field component to what the recruitment team is doing and it is obvious we're going to struggle to go anywhere.

Overpaid, overadored, oversheltered from criticism and underachieving. Nobody can hit the heights required when all of those things are riddled within the squad.

Regarding the bolded bit. As much as I like Rashford, having his spot absolutely guaranteed despite how poorly he plays is to nobody's benefit and it's been a serial problem over the years. Our attackers need to fear losing their positions or they'll continue to turn in these garbage performances over and over again knowing that there will never really be any consequences for missing an open net because there's no one to take their place, that's sort of why I'm praying to God that Diallo can have some kind of impact if just to keep players on their toes. Fergie's players always had someone snapping at their heels keeping them on their toes to avoid complacency.

 

[ivaldo]

Two winners making a good factual points about the teams mentality. Have you seen the level of intensity in our two most recent performances it was absolutely shambolic. That in itself without tactical analysis tells us what the players think of themselves and what the manager thinks of his opportunity. It doesn't mean we sack Solskjaer but it's evident he's clearly displaying a ceiling as to how far he can take the squad.

Coming back from games is more a derivative of team spirit. Solskjaer has absolutely nailed the culture of this team down but the mentality the team display is not one of winners and Ole has done nothing to signify bridging that gap.

Keane also admits that if Cavani didn't miss an open goal or the shot from 7 yards out we wouldn't even be discussing it. We'd be talking about a good reaction from a disappointing result. It's the standard reactionary nonsense based purely on the result on Wednesday. I genuinely don't think half the posters here understand what 'bottling it' means (not aimed specially at you btw).

No, it's a perfect example of mental strength. Something bad happens, our backs are against the wall, and instead of crumbling we claw ourselves back into it. You're trying to find a way of explaining why we have a propensity to come back from a goal or two down without it having anything to do with the mental strength of the team. 'Team Spirit' can just as easily apply to every other example in this thread.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Agree with Neville totally. We are a 'odd bunch' its frustrating and comical in equal measure for a United fan but if we can be closer points wise between City and Liverpool then it'll be a decent PL season. My issue, and it's one that is common, is our work in the transfer market. We spent 80 million last summer and the first team wasn't really touched. That has to change.

 

[Glorio]

I think there are different aspects of mental strength. It's not a one-dimensional quality. Just some examples of different aspects:
- Reacting to adversity
- Guarding against complacency
- Having the courage to stamp your authority against the big teams (or in high pressure games where there's a huge prize at stake).

This team has bags of the first aspect (adversity). More than I've seen at this club for years. They react brilliantly to adversity: just tell them Ole's job is at stake (or get the media to start slating our players and results) and they'll tear through most teams you put in front of them. Maybe we should just pay the press to leak rumours of the sack or squad disharmony!

I think we lack severely in the second aspect (complacency) - off the back of good results with lot's of praise, this team almost always looks to stroll through the next game expecting the opposition to roll over. Whenever I start seeing our players doing interviews about how great things are, I get concerned! You can almost guarantee a tepid start the next game.

In the third aspect (courage and responsibility), I think a lot of our players lack that as well. The tactics we use may play a subconscious role here, but in these games, we're usually the underdogs and we play like that. Neither the manager or the players believe we're on a par with the big teams and it shows. To be fair they're probably right, but we're a lot better than we show in most of these games. No one wants to hold unto the ball for over 2 seconds, like it's a plague, and we end up rushing things and trying quick counters whether it's on or not, with no belief that we can play through the opposition any other way. This of course ends up with us repeatedly giving up possession needlessly in some weird mental vicious cycle that reinforces the notion that we're second best throughout the game.

I feel we were weak in all 3 aspects before, so there's progress there. I think the last 2 aspects where we're still found wanting might just be indicative of being a young-ish team where the few seniors around are not really pulling their weight as they should - personality or performance-wise

 

[Champagne Football]

I don't believe we have the squad to go all the way this year. It's incredible that we're already having conversations about winning a title so soon into Ole's reign.

But we dont have any goals coming from central-mid as McT and Fred are a similar type defensive box to box or double 6 or whatever you want to call it. In Carrick, Keane and Scholes we had a ton of creativity coming from Central Mid. Pogba in a midfield 2 with Matic doesn't work as we concede goals even if Pogba scores the odd worldy.

I think we're a few players away from really going for the title. I think we'll bring in more Diallo type signings. Unheard of kids with huge potential. Joe Hugill, Diallo and Garner should be pushing for first XI places over the next 18 months at different stages. Vande Beek could be the success story of next season.

 

[VeevaVee]

Yep, we don't have mentality, and I do think it starts with Ole, as great as it can be to love him when it's going well. You wouldn't exactly follow him in to battle would you.

There's no grit. No changing gears when it's needed. Just a bunch of mostly passive players.

 

[Redinkenya]

I agree. We seem to lose our nerve when the stakes aren't high enough. Ole needs to work on motivation.

 

[MikeKing]

I think Ole has made the team better than Chelsea, Tottenham, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal and we're now competing against Liverpool and Man City. That's tremendous improvement where others have not shown as much. I think the constant second guessing and lingering doubt shown from Neville and other fans is silly and only reflect his emotional state. He seems so empty he has to make stuff up.

Obviously, us competing with City and Pool can change into a top 6 battle very quickly but we've done well so far and honestly should have had a few more points than we have currently have, if not for getting screwed by a few blatantly bogus referee decisions. We need to overhaul the squad if we're not going to stagnate and that's on Ed.

 

[Foxbatt]

Yep, we don't have mentality, and I do think it starts with Ole, as great as it can be to love him when it's going well. You wouldn't exactly follow him in to battle would you.

There's no grit. No changing gears when it's needed. Just a bunch of mostly passive players.

We did not play that well. Yes we had two chances but Ole should not be saying that he was happy with a point. Scholes was right. We did not bust a gut in trying to win that game. We were happy with a point at Arsenal. Too often we are trying to salvage a loss. We are scared of losing a game. That is why when we concede we try to be positive. If we do not concede we are not trying to score. It is because the way Ole sets up the team. We have a player who can play the pass and move game but he never gets a chance. It doesn't matter if you have two forwards or three forwards, if you do not pass and move there would not be space if the opposition is denying you the space by not opening up.

 

[ghaliboy]

Regarding the bolded bit. As much as I like Rashford, having his spot absolutely guaranteed despite how poorly he plays is to nobody's benefit and it's been a serial problem over the years. Our attackers need to fear losing their positions or they'll continue to turn in these garbage performances over and over again knowing that there will never really be any consequences for missing an open net because there's no one to take their place, that's sort of why I'm praying to God that Diallo can have some kind of impact if just to keep players on their toes. Fergie's players always had someone snapping at their heels keeping them on their toes to avoid complacency.

To understand the Rashford conundrum in that sense I believe you have to go back to the Martial conundrum and how on earth he burgled 250k per week out of the club for what was literally nothing. Not an exaggerated hyperbolic misrepresentation of the truth either, a player who probably should have taken a pay cut on value of performance at his last salary negotiation. His salary jumped from 70k to 250k per week. Now I don't really dislike Martial in that sense but the only thing from that contract negotiation was that Rashford was now to earn 250+ per week because he was playing at almost double the effectiveness as Martial. If both Rashford and Martial were on 70/100k per week and were playing at these levels with another world class striker in front of them I don't think people would be that upset with them. Because of the fact that they are ballon'dor level contender salaries their expectations should also be at that level. Now I think the best way to describe Rashford is "closer to the value", but both of them have been levels of poor that are unacceptable in the past and I feel like at the least Rashford has some credit in the bank of past value of performances. Martial on the other hand, yikes. The other part is that Rashford is clearly in my view a striker, plays like a striker and does striker things all over the pitch. He's also our best left sided player, he's also probably first choice "chuck him on the right" as well. The whole squad is a mess because it hasn't been built properly and there are a lot of cracks for these players to hide in.

Look there are loads of other examples I could go on with, but in a nutshell this is the issue. If you bum cash into players pockets on the possibility of them performing well in the future and you centre your whole squad building argument around "getting the best players all the time at whatever cost" then you're probably going to have a bad time building a squad. Coupling it with the fact that United has had such great past success you're giving overpaid players an excuse to fail because they're playing for the cash if they can't manufacture the glory.

Personally I think this squad is riddled with loser mentality and needs a complete gutting. The problem is you've got insane salary earners that can't be dropped or binned and the front end recruitment process doesn't connect to squad management on the correct level of actually getting what is best for the squad at the expense of marketability.

 

[Hansinity]

I think Ole has made the team better than Chelsea, Tottenham, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal and we're now competing against Liverpool and Man City. That's tremendous improvement where others have not shown as much. I think the constant second guessing and lingering doubt shown from Neville and other fans is silly and only reflect his emotional state. He seems so empty he has to make stuff up.

Obviously, us competing with City and Pool can change into a top 6 battle very quickly but we've done well so far and honestly should have had a few more points than we have currently have, if not for getting screwed by a few blatantly bogus referee decisions. We need to overhaul the squad if we're not going to stagnate and that's on Ed.

I agree, we are better than your mentioned teams. But doest is mean much ? I think none of these teams are close to a top team, , we should focus on ourselves. When we don't look at the table and only look at each game, I personally don't remember more than 5 games where we looked like a top team. More often we looked like a low table team to be honest.

Standard nowadays has become so low considering that we are the biggest club in the world..

 

[MikeKing]

I agree, we are better than your mentioned teams. But doest is mean much ? I think none of these teams are close to a top team, , we should focus on ourselves. When we don't look at the table and only look at each game, I personally don't remember more than 5 games where we looked like a top team. More often we looked like a low table team to be honest.

Standard nowadays has become so low considering that we are the biggest club in the world..

Well that is a fallacy on it's own, because without the context of comparing to other teams how would you be able to distinguish between a low level team and a top team. It's not like when Liverpool won the league they looked like world beaters every game. Obviously we're not at that level and we do need to focus on ourselves to improve but we've been doing just fine. I've been entertained and we've mostly been getting the points even when we haven't been dominating or been very entertaining to watch, which to me is a sign of a top team. I think it means a lot in the context of believing in the team, which is one of the fun parts of football.

 

[pratyush_utd]

We are becoming bit like Arsenal post 2005. Few good months in a season and shitting the bed under pressure. We have blown 4 Semifinal in one calendar year.

 

[suhaylah]

Apart from Bruno and Cavani, we don't have players with winning mentality..
Players like Rashford and Martial are erratic.
Also, the fault lies with the manager when he was playing an out of form Martial ahead of Cavani.
The Sheffield united loss was the worst thing that could happen to us. And it's this match that will cost us the league i think.

 

[Relevated]

Apart from Bruno and Cavani, we don't have players with winning mentality..
Players like Rashford and Martial are erratic.
Also, the fault lies with the manager when he was playing an out of form Martial ahead of Cavani.
The Sheffield united loss was the worst thing that could happen to us. And it's this match that will cost us the league i think.

Definitely. These guys you mentioned aren't really those who possess a champions mentality.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

We are butlers

Some champagne sir?. Or some of Australia's finest Fosters for yourselves?.

 

[Caesar2290]

If before yesterday you still had any doubts if we were bottlers or not... there you go, directly from the horses mouth:


This has got to be the most Moyes comment, since Moyes retired. Being top of the league, doesn't make you a title contender. Dearie me...

For all the shit Mourinho gets on here, we never had a mentality problem under him, not when the pressure was on anyways. Even the season we finished second and 18 points of the top, a lot of our fans still considered that we were in a title race, despite the outcome being clear by December.

And yet, every time the pressure is on us to perform we buckle or fall like a house of cards.

When Ole was interim we failed to reach top 4, despite all our rivals dropping points for 5 consecutive week days.

Last year year we had a similar outcome where Leicester and Chelsea were dropping points in the last couple of games, and instead of taking advantage we left it to the final game with Leicester. We won that game and secured 3rd.

This year the pattern is exactly the same. When we have the initiative we don't know what to do. It's like our players are shying away from a challenge.

4 semi final loses in a row. Being top of the CL group and then throwing it away in a similar fashion. How many more coincidences need to happen before it becomes mathematically impossible?

You can not improve if you don't address a fundamental flaw. We've had the same one since Ole's first season, yet somehow are fans think we are progressing.

Don't get me wrong, we do play pretty football and the lack of toxicity also helps, but it's supper hard for me to enjoy the football knowing that we live a Groundhog Day of sorts. No matter what purple parch we're on, the moment the push comes to shove, we will buckle. And it makes me sad because our history has always been about defying odds and breaking through adversity.

And to answer the question: no we're not bottlers, we're serial bottlers.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Don't think that we are bottlers.
Bottkers are favourites to win but don't due to their own shortcomings.
We just aren't good enough right now.
At a minimum we need a centre back, a centre mid and a striker.
We poosibly need 2 centre backs, a midfielder, a right winger and a striker.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If before yesterday you still had any doubts if we were bottlers or not... there you go, directly from the horses mouth:


This has got to be the most Moyes comment, since Moyes retired. Being top of the league, doesn't make you a title contender. Dearie me...

For all the shit Mourinho gets on here, we never had a mentality problem under him, not when the pressure was on anyways. Even the season we finished second and 18 points of the top, a lot of our fans still considered that we were in a title race, despite the outcome being clear by December.

And yet, every time the pressure is on us to perform we buckle or fall like a house of cards.

When Ole was interim we failed to reach top 4, despite all our rivals dropping points for 5 consecutive week days.

Last year year we had a similar outcome where Leicester and Chelsea were dropping points in the last couple of games, and instead of taking advantage we left it to the final game with Leicester. We won that game and secured 3rd.

This year the pattern is exactly the same. When we have the initiative we don't know what to do. It's like our players are shying away from a challenge.

4 semi final loses in a row. Being top of the CL group and then throwing it away in a similar fashion. How many more coincidences need to happen before it becomes mathematically impossible?

You can not improve if you don't address a fundamental flaw. We've had the same one since Ole's first season, yet somehow are fans think we are progressing.

Don't get me wrong, we do play pretty football and the lack of toxicity also helps, but it's supper hard for me to enjoy the football knowing that we live a Groundhog Day of sorts. No matter what purple parch we're on, the moment the push comes to shove, we will buckle. And it makes me sad because our history has always been about defying odds and breaking through adversity.

And to answer the question: no we're not bottlers, we're serial bottlers.

Who said we never had mentality problem under Mourinho.

When you got Valencia, Smalling, Rooney, Carrick, that’s better mentality players than what we have right now in defense especially. As soon as they are declined, some sold, some retired, we didn’t win shit under Mourinho but lost the final FA Cup to Chelsea and got knocked out by the worse team Sevilla in UCL aka bottler. Players also matter and big part of it here.

 

[Sky1981]

Don't think that we are bottlers.
Bottkers are favourites to win but don't due to their own shortcomings.
We just aren't good enough right now.
At a minimum we need a centre back, a centre mid and a striker.
We poosibly need 2 centre backs, a midfielder, a right winger and a striker.

By your definition we are bottlers against SU, and everton when we're 3-2 up

 

[Rozay]

I totally agree that we lack the stones. We have been told that we can’t actually win anything for so long that the players are starting to believe it. As much as I love Ole, and have backed him throughout - this is literally the bread and butter of his job.

This idea that Liverpool and City’s players are all better than ours is not true. It’s a cop out that we tell ourselves to create an acceptable scenario where we can finish behind them. We love the role of underdog. We cannot show authority and win the games we are expected to, and lead from the front. The only way I can see this team winning the league is if we win it on the last day of the season, starting the day in second place.

People say our defence isn’t good enough to win the league. That’s nonsense. Our defence, like the rest of our team lack concentration and mentality. I would 100% back them to go away to Anfield or the Etihad and put in a brilliant performance - keeping the best forwards in the league shackled. They have done so many times. They are far more likely to concede two goals at home to Fulham than they are to City or Liverpool. Then when they concede to those clubs, everyone will say our defenders aren’t good enough. It’s letting them off the hook. They are good enough, and need to be demanded to do better.

Our Champions League campaign is the perfect case study. When the draw was made everyone said we had no chance. PSG too good. Leipzig too good. First game was away against the favourites which was supposed to be super tough. But we made it look super easy. Great performance. Same against the tough Leipzig in the next game. 5-0 win. Suddenly, the expectations changed, and we did not know how to lead from the front. The easiest game of all, we lost in Turkey, and ended up going out.

In the league, we were quietly winning when we were being written off. And even then, we could seemingly only win games as long as we were required to be heroic underdogs. Go behind first, then win. As soon as we were unable to hide any longer and got to the top of the league - we fall apart. Lose at home to Sheffield. We’d have been more likely to beat Everton if they had gone 0-2 up instead of us.

Everyone connected to the club is feeding these highly paid and revered players that they cannot possibly win, and they have found comfort and safety there. Top of the league you have Gary Neville telling everyone that ‘I mean, no United fan believes they can actually win it’ every fecking week. The manager continually saying ‘we’re not even thinking about the title’, while being fecking top of the league at halfway. Why on earth not? Who should be thinking about winning then? The teams behind us?

I can’t lie, Saturday really affected me, and I’m sick of this shit now. Players, managers, fans not demanding the best. We have this obsession with young players, which in itself is a bit of a cop out, as there is a culture that you can never hold them truly accountable for their performance or results. You take the good and dismiss the inconsistency or flaws as youthful immaturity, and bank on a tomorrow that never comes.

 

[Giggsy13]

Until we reach a cup final and win something then the bottler label will stick. The sooner we shed this label the better, as it will always loom large for this squad in big games. Winning either the FA cup or Europa league will go a long way for this group.

 

[432JuanMata]

We are great underdogs hence why we have came from behind to win so many times this year yet when we take the lead or winning late on we get shaky and sit deep, we hit top of the league then we start crumbling, doesn’t help that the manager doesn’t even believe we can win it. Also all the SF but no finals is starting to show we are good enough to go far but haven’t got the bottle to take that extra step

 

[Borys]

I don't agree with the OP statement at all. Firstly, we were never favorites to win the EPL. In fact from what I've seen outside United community, most people were saying we would do well to finish 3rd again considering how Chelsea have strengthened.

Secondly, we were overachieving in terms of results long before the Sheffield game happened. It was expected to happen. If anything the current games show how bad are we defensively and where we need to strengthen.

Those words from Ole are shocking though.

We are great underdogs hence why we have came from behind to win so many times this year yet when we take the lead or winning late on we get shaky and sit deep, we hit top of the league then we start crumbling, doesn’t help that the manager doesn’t even believe we can win it. Also all the SF but no finals is starting to show we are good enough to go far but haven’t got the bottle to take that extra step

That's weird conclusion, because we were favorites in all games in which opposition scored first but we overturned the score eventually.

IMO we look shaky in later stages of the game because the play is more open and we almost always finish games with 4 forwards, Ole never makes those "safety" subs.

 

[The Brown Bull]

By your definition we are bottlers against SU, and everton when we're 3-2 up

True. I didn't explain myself well.
We lost to Sheff. Utd due to poor reffing, poor defending & finishing.
We only drew with Everton because of poor defending & finishing.
We didn't bottle it. Bottling is when you lose /draw due to weak mentality.

 

[glazed]

Our defenders aren't quite good enough. Is it really so hard to grasp?

 

[Threesus]

True. I didn't explain myself well.
We lost to Sheff. Utd due to poor reffing, poor defending & finishing.
We only drew with Everton because of poor defending & finishing.
We didn't bottle it. Bottling is when you lose /draw due to weak mentality.

That’s the definition of bottling it , no?

I don’t know if the players look at the league table,but we utterly surrendered our league position and the points to go with it the pst 2 weeks. The Sheffield performance was a disgrace. The arsenal one devoid of any energy or intensity. The Everton one, complacency and lack of concentration at pivotal moments. Sides who are seriously going for the title don’t do that.

Let’s take a look at our players. How many of them even seriously want the title? I can think of only Bruno, cavani and pogba. Rashford don’t look like he wants it. Degea and Maguire certainly don’t look like they want it. And as for Martial, if a title challenge can’t motivate you to work hard and score, then what are you doing at this club?

My worry is that players like Bruno will leave next summer, if we continue to be spineless cnuts. Pogba gone this summer, Bruno gone next summer, I dread to think where we will be in a years time. We are already sliding towards being in perpetual mediocrity(if we are not there already),with terms like ‘rebuild’ and ‘process’ being thrown about by the manager and the board. We are the new Arsenal, that’s the ugly reality. And maybe we should learn to lower our expectations even more.

 

[The Brown Bull]

That’s the definition of bottling it , no?

I don’t know if the players look at the league table,but we utterly surrendered our league position and the points to go with it the pst 2 weeks. The Sheffield performance was a disgrace. The arsenal one devoid of any energy or intensity. The Everton one, complacency and lack of concentration at pivotal moments. Sides who are seriously going for the title don’t do that.

Let’s take a look at our players. How many of them even seriously want the title? I can think of only Bruno, cavani and pogba. Rashford don’t look like he wants it. Degea and Maguire certainly don’t look like they want it. And as for Martial, if a title challenge can’t motivate you to work hard and score, then what are you doing at this club?

My worry is that players like Bruno will leave next summer, if we continue to be spineless cnuts. Pogba gone this summer, Bruno gone next summer, I dread to think where we will be in a years time. We are already sliding towards being in perpetual mediocrity(if we are not there already),with terms like ‘rebuild’ and ‘process’ being thrown about by the manager and the board. We are the new Arsenal, that’s the ugly reality. And maybe we should learn to lower our expectations even more.

Well if the manager doesn't think we are contenders why should they players? When I heard Ole say that I felt like screaming! What's he doing at the club then.

 

[Hammondo]

Not being good enough is not the same as bottling.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Not being good enough is not the same as bottling.

We bottled the Leipzig game. De Gea and the defence bottled the Everton game.

Sure they are not good enough too but they aren't so bad that they should be letting in 3 shots from 3 in a game where they had it as easy as possible due to the rest of the team playing well.

That's is bottling.

 

[Dve]

We bottled the Leipzig game. De Gea and the defence bottled the Everton game.

Sure they are not good enough too but they aren't so bad that they should be letting in 3 shots from 3 in a game where they had it as easy as possible due to the rest of the team playing well.

That's is bottling.

Still, the table suggest we are the second least bottling team in England. Which is a bit less bottling that we would have guessed before the season started. No one suggested we would be title challengers this season. Next season, we could be.