We are an awfully coached team

Mickson said:
He's not a great coach and I have said it all along. He has done some things good. My short summarize: He's not a tactical genius but he is a good manager, his players enjoy his management and he takes care of his players. But tactically, I sincerely think he is not in the top half of this league even.
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He needs to get better coaches. His management apart from the coaching side seems to be very good.
 
“Today was a dead rubber, just like the last two home games.”

“We’ve had ten games in five days.”

“It’s all about resting the players now before the final.”

“We miss Maguire badly. Judge when we have a full team available. ”

“We were never going to win the league anyway.”

“Look at the great progress we are making. We are on course to gain 0.13 PPG more than last season.”

“We are not getting time between games to practice systems and formations, next year we are definitely going to boss our rivals tactically.”

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Have we missed any from today? Surely some of the above pearls were dished out once again after another dour performance.
 
Mainoldo said:
We are still a bunch of bottlers. I wouldn’t big up his management too much.
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I don't think it's bottling. I think he is not strong enough sometimes. When players regularly play for themselves it's the manager who needs to sort it out. I think his two weakness are this and his choice of his coaches. His man management seems to be good. But next season we will know if he is going to compete or not?
When was the last time we scored from a corner? I don't think he is very innovative either. Why does Bruno take all free kicks when we also have Pogba? Occasionally Fred should take it too.
 
Foxbatt said:
I don't think it's bottling. I think he is not strong enough sometimes. When players regularly play for themselves it's the manager who needs to sort it out. I think his two weakness are this and his choice of his coaches. His man management seems to be good. But next season we will know if he is going to compete or not?
When was the last time we scored from a corner? I don't think he is very innovative either. Why does Bruno take all free kicks when we also have Pogba? Occasionally Fred should take it too.
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I think that aspect like corners etc. The players manage themselves. Nothing wrong with that. Only occasionally you get the set piece dictators like LVG. But I agree the coaching is terrible and you can see that with the set pieces we concede. But who hires a manager that just manages these days. Can you name a good one?
 
Mickson said:
He's not a great coach and I have said it all along. He has done some things good. My short summarize: He's not a tactical genius but he is a good manager, his players enjoy his management and he takes care of his players. But tactically, I sincerely think he is not in the top half of this league even.
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That why you essentially disappear when were doing well, only to rear your head when we're not getting results?
 
Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.
 
My stance is unchanged and I’ve buggered out of the discussion (for the main part) for months. It’s a bit like watching the comments section between Samsung and Apple-fans after a new release, what’s the point when delusion/pride on both sides stand in the way of a proper discussion. Now obviously I want Ole Solskjær gone even if we win the EL, like the next man really wants him to stay even if we lose, but we’re at an interesting point regardless:

Who would we bring in to replace him? I really don’t see any stand-out characters in the market anymore. Allegri? Hell no, he’s not a Man Utd-manager and he’s not going to be happy switching Piemonte with Manchester. Tuchel could have been that guy, he’s now making his mark elsewhere. Nagelsmann? Gone, we were too late.

What Solskjær doesn’t have is the tactical arsenal.. and often more importantly, charisma. The ability to win a room by entering it, or to create some fear if needed. Which manager is available and with these two traits? Beats me, honestly I have no idea.
 
I don't need him sacked but I really want him to hire a top assistant. There is nothing wrong with it. We still look like 11 strangers playing for the first time waiting for one of those individual moments just like we had from Bruno and Cavani today.
 
James Peril said:
My stance is unchanged and I’ve buggered out of the discussion (for the main part) for months. It’s a bit like watching the comments section between Samsung and Apple-fans after a new release, what’s the point when delusion/pride on both sides stand in the way of a proper discussion. Now obviously I want Ole Solskjær gone even if we win the EL, like the next man really wants him to stay even if we lose, but we’re at an interesting point regardless:

Who would we bring in to replace him? I really don’t see any stand-out characters in the market anymore. Allegri? Hell no, he’s not a Man Utd-manager and he’s not going to be happy switching Piemonte with Manchester. Tuchel could have been that guy, he’s now making his mark elsewhere. Nagelsmann? Gone, we were too late.

What Solskjær doesn’t have is the tactical arsenal.. and often more importantly, charisma. The ability to win a room by entering it, or to create some fear if needed. Which manager is available and with these two traits? Beats me, honestly I have no idea.
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Don't think there's anyone. We placed all our bets on Ole now.

If he doesn't deliver next season, I don't even know who would replace him.

I'm not a fan of Allegri, but he would be an upgrade on Ole clearly.
 
Bwuk said:
Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.
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Just about to post this, we've had some fantastic results under Ole let's not diminish that, but I can't even think of a game where we just dominated a team through a brilliant game plan, i am sure there's a few but our big results from memory and i might be wrong here we usually have been sh*te for 60% of it and either had a burst of quick fire goals or a great last minute goal,

Two that spring to mind is our 5-0 Leipzig match where I think we just went mental in the last 15 minutes and also the last minute goal against PSG from Rashford,

He's doing something right clearly but this has been a very strange season, I think next season is going to be a very intense high quality season across the league so really interested to see happens
 
This thread getting bumped whenever United let in a goal or fail to win a meaningless match is a really clear sign no one on here has any idea about coaching.
 
Sweet Square said:
This thread getting bumped whenever United let in a goal or fail to win a meaningless match is a really clear sign no one on here has any idea about coaching.
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As opposed to bumping it when we win 6-2? What kind of logic is this?

Put your hand on your heart and tell us you are convinced with Ole's coaching and that it looks good enough to win PL/CL?
 
Bwuk said:
Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.
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Which is absolutely fine - if you can hire great coaches to do that side of it for you. I’d be more excited to see us appoint a couple of new coaches to work on set pieces, defending etc than I would to see new players.
 
Bwuk said:
Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.
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This is what's so frustrating to me. I think it's actually harder to find a good motivator than a good coach nowadays. They're basically growing on trees in Germany.

Why can't we just hire some non-insider to actually do this job? Why does it always have to be some friend or some ex-player? Or at least if it is, why can't they be capable, like at Bayern?

It honestly reeks of Glaziritis where the yes-men and quiet types are promoted ahead of the people who 'complain' or are inconvenient.
 
Next season is going to be a big one. The manager has done a reasonable to good job in my opinion, when taken in its entirety. From the initial cleanup of a few bad eggs, to fostering a decent togetherness, the cup opportunities we have had and unfortunately squandered (we did at least get to good positions with another golden opportunity to come), to finishing a potential second this year.

It looks like a reasonable job done, I don't see how anybody could say he has done a poor job, at least with a straight face. There is some divergence between those that think it's just okay, and those that think he's done very well, that should be admitted.

However, next season does feel very, very important to how the view on him continues to take shape. There are always going to be a section of fans that demand instant results, and those that are extremely patient or even romantic. But I think next season is the one where those in the middle will start to form stronger views. Mainly because he's had some time, he's had some transfer windows, we've reached a point where we need to threaten towards the end of seasons for major honours - it is the logical step. The challenge will be facing a City that are certain to be similarly strong, and a shocked Chelsea and Liverpool, the smart money has to be on them being stronger. It's a very big transfer window and season to come.
 
This thread is like a circus, too many clowns in here. We are second, its pretty damn good considering the one above us is supported by a god damn sheik. You lot not supporting Ole can cry me a river til your eyes dries out.
 
2 man midfield said:
Which is absolutely fine - if you can hire great coaches to do that side of it for you. I’d be more excited to see us appoint a couple of new coaches to work on set pieces, defending etc than I would to see new players.
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You'd have to let go of the entire coaching staff bar Ole.

I don't think that's feasible or realistic.
 
Mainoldo said:
I think that aspect like corners etc. The players manage themselves. Nothing wrong with that. Only occasionally you get the set piece dictators like LVG. But I agree the coaching is terrible and you can see that with the set pieces we concede. But who hires a manager that just manages these days. Can you name a good one?
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You look at any top coach and they will do the set piece. You look at Rinus Michels, Arigo Sachi, Pep, Klopp, SAF, they all do it. Which variation to take is left up to the players. If it is a near post flick, then it is practiced on the training field. Everything is practiced. You simply cannot go on the pitch and pray and hope.
My biggest worry is that with City, Chelsea and Liverpool strengthening, the competition next year is going to be much stronger and we would not win the PL or the CL. But also any manager that is worthwhile is now being signed by other clubs.
 
I think the issue with the team is inexperience on Oles part. Although to be fair the constant pressure hasn't helped.

What I mean is that the players who have been the consistent 11 have been over used somewhat and the others haven't been getting enough minutes to keep up with play, rusty if you will.

An example is the Maguire injury. People have slated likes of Bailly and Tuanzebe (although less so). However these players haven't seen much game time (injury to Bailly but tbf he has had good games then not been picked). Then an injury happens and they are thrust in without minutes and added pressure. Any mistake is them magnified and they are slated.

Likes of Mata have not been seen for ages then put in a game and expected to perform, yet everyone knows game time is vital for players form.

Ole needs to "tinker" more next season and ensure the back up type players get minutes so of the inevitable injury cones up they are in some sort of form or up to speed so to speak.

Listening to certain ex footballers the themes seems to be that you don't need to miss whole games to be rested. 60 minutes and subbed can be sufficient in most cases. Now I know we have sometimes needed to keep going with our best players to get a result. But we have also had games we could have rested or subbed players and didn't.

Management isn't just about having a good 11, especially with us being in all comps. It's about utilising the players, even the not so good ones sometimes to give the hood ones a rest and the others minutes.

I remember towards the end of SAFs era we used to get bexxed as he made so many changes. But then at the end of the season we always finished strong. Coincidence? Not for me. Currently and last season we ended poorly and I think it's down to fatigue somewhat. Bought on by playing likes of injured rashy or Bruno consistently. The back how getting a game here and there sees poor performances and for me some of that is down to no game time.
 
Halftrack said:
That why you essentially disappear when were doing well, only to rear your head when we're not getting results?
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We are seldom doing well. Can think of a maximum of 5-6 games where we have played very well. The rest is just grinding out the result and people think that is sustainable and that we will win the league soon. Always an excuse as well. "Nothing to play for", "tired", "unlucky". The reality will hit hard on some people next season I imagine.
 
We seem extremely streaky and I’m wondering if our team form is more connected to good/bad spells of form from our best players than anything else.
 
I've long said he's put some good foundations in place, but has taken us as far as he can and it's time to take the next step to build on the progress he has made and appoint a manager who can take us to the next step. (Unsure who though)

It is time to thank Ole for what he has done, shake his hand and move to the next stage of the rebuild project.

If we are deemed to have made "progress" this season, we need to win the Europa league final.

He needs to be quicker to change things up if we are in a slump. Yes I know its the end of the season, and we have a final, but surely the incentive should be to be picked for that final? Not sleepwalking along. Its Ole's job to sort this.

The slumps of bad form go on too long, obviously we will get the odd draw/loss but we get too many in a row which can't keep happening if we want to win titles

I do believe the mentality of some players is still questionable.

Quite a few times it's down to individual moments.

We still can't keep the ball in big games, so spend a lot of them under pressure and also still can't break down low block teams. There's also still the weakness of either starting slowly, or crumbling at the end. These have long been our issues, why aren't they being addressed? We now seem to be scoring first then blundering away the lead. Yes Maguire is out but still. Got to be better.

Harsh, but would we be 2nd if everyone else hadn't been absolutely awful
 
I think Ole is a average coach but what needs to be done is differentiate coaching and the identity of good progressive football. For example I would consider Simeone to be a good coach but his football is negative due to his philosophy. However that doesn't necessarily take away from his credentials tactically.

Ole for me falls within a similar category, not in comparison to Diego as he's less effective but generally. I think it's all but guaranteed the philosophy to this United team is not going to compete with the likes of a Chelsea, City or Liverpool. The development is that the club sign a high quality of players and Ole musters up togetherness so that the team bonds and has good chemistry. Team will not improve due to the limited / non-existent philosophy.
 
Foxbatt said:
Yes we could sack him at the end of the season but for what? He may very well win a trophy. But I agree that our coaching is not good enough.
But Now where is the manager you look to replace him? They have all gone to other clubs. Poch to PSG. Rose to Dortmund. Naggelsman to Bayern.
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I think the only potential option would be to convince Poch to come here. I reckon it is doable, but it wouldn't surprise me if we got beat to that too. Perhaps Real Madrid or, less likely, Barcelona, will need a manager in the summer and take that option.
 
Sweet Square said:
This thread getting bumped whenever United let in a goal or fail to win a meaningless match is a really clear sign no one on here has any idea about coaching.
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When does it become a coaching issue though? I mean, it's not the first time that a goal is conceded because AWB either a) stays below the rest of the defence to play a player onside, or b) loses his man at the back post from a cross. Here, we had a double whammy of them both.

Are we just to accept that this is a flaw that the coaching staff, two years into his time with United, will just have to live with? I mean, at what point do we hold the coaching team accountable for players' individual flaws that are obvious for everyone at home to see? Is it after the player's spent one year at the club, two years, five years or do we just accept that the player we buy is the player we get and that's it? No wonder we have to go for the most expensive options in every position if we can't trust the management to iron out flaws in the players that we do buy.
 
Then there's the issue with defending set-pieces.

No-one will ever convince me that a mixed tactical set up of both zonal and man marking at corners is doing us any favours.
 
We've played some good football this season.

I mean, our best midfield is McFred and our front 3 cost us nothing. What are you people expecting?
 
Anustart89 said:
When does it become a coaching issue though? I mean, it's not the first time that a goal is conceded because AWB either a) stays below the rest of the defence to play a player onside, or b) loses his man at the back post from a cross. Here, we had a double whammy of them both.

Are we just to accept that this is a flaw that the coaching staff, two years into his time with United, will just have to live with? I mean, at what point do we hold the coaching team accountable for players' individual flaws that are obvious for everyone at home to see? Is it after the player's spent one year at the club, two years, five years or do we just accept that the player we buy is the player we get and that's it? No wonder we have to go for the most expensive options in every position if we can't trust the management to iron out flaws in the players that we do buy.
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well you could argue the opposite.

The biggest complaint that people had over Wan Bissaka is his attacking game - so for him to improve that within a couple of months as a 23 year old is surely a sign of coaching rather than a lack of it isn’t it?

Now his attacking game is slowly starting to get in to a shape, maybe Wan Bissaka will be able to focus on his positioning a bit better next year. Hopefully in 2 or 3 years time he can reach a prime of a well rounded player.

Same thing happened with Shaw. His attacking game has improved due to coaching andhas looked like a more well rounded player - except 2 poor performances in the last 2 games.
 
United Hobbit said:
I've long said he's put some good foundations in place, but has taken us as far as he can and it's time to take the next step to build on the progress he has made and appoint a manager who can take us to the next step. (Unsure who though)

It is time to thank Ole for what he has done, shake his hand and move to the next stage of the rebuild project.

If we are deemed to have made "progress" this season, we need to win the Europa league final.

He needs to be quicker to change things up if we are in a slump. Yes I know its the end of the season, and we have a final, but surely the incentive should be to be picked for that final? Not sleepwalking along. Its Ole's job to sort this.

The slumps of bad form go on too long, obviously we will get the odd draw/loss but we get too many in a row which can't keep happening if we want to win titles

I do believe the mentality of some players is still questionable.

Quite a few times it's down to individual moments.

We still can't keep the ball in big games, so spend a lot of them under pressure and also still can't break down low block teams. There's also still the weakness of either starting slowly, or crumbling at the end. These have long been our issues, why aren't they being addressed? We now seem to be scoring first then blundering away the lead. Yes Maguire is out but still. Got to be better.

Harsh, but would we be 2nd if everyone else hadn't been absolutely awful
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i mean it’s okay to feel like Ole has taken us far as he can go - but shake his hands and tell him to feck off after achieving 2nd place and a Europa league final seems a bit weird.

Let’s wait until he fails rather than sacking him because he looks like a failure.
 
Bebestation said:
i mean it’s okay to feel like Ole has taken us far as he can go - but shake his hands and tell him to feck off after achieving 2nd place and a Europa league final seems a bit weird.

Let’s wait until he fails rather than sacking him because he looks like a failure.
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What is him failing?

People define failing differently.
 
I remember when Pep said his team was shit because the players he had was shit and needed better quality.

What's the chance of having better midfielders will improve us dramatically than playing McFred? I never seen two players that are horrible passers. Everytime I see either of them try to pass further 10 yards I know we lost the ball. They're not even consistent 5 yards passers.
 
BlahRules said:
I remember when Pep said his team was shit because the players he had was shit and needed better quality.

What's the chance of having better midfielders will improve us dramatically than playing McFred? I never seen two players that are horrible passers. Everytime I see either of them try to pass further 10 yards I know we lost the ball. They're not even consistent 5 yards passers.
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Fred is easily a better passer than McTominay, but yeah neither are top tier in that regard.
 
United Hobbit said:
I've long said he's put some good foundations in place, but has taken us as far as he can and it's time to take the next step to build on the progress he has made and appoint a manager who can take us to the next step. (Unsure who though)

It is time to thank Ole for what he has done, shake his hand and move to the next stage of the rebuild project.

If we are deemed to have made "progress" this season, we need to win the Europa league final.

He needs to be quicker to change things up if we are in a slump. Yes I know its the end of the season, and we have a final, but surely the incentive should be to be picked for that final? Not sleepwalking along. Its Ole's job to sort this.

The slumps of bad form go on too long, obviously we will get the odd draw/loss but we get too many in a row which can't keep happening if we want to win titles

I do believe the mentality of some players is still questionable.

Quite a few times it's down to individual moments.

We still can't keep the ball in big games, so spend a lot of them under pressure and also still can't break down low block teams. There's also still the weakness of either starting slowly, or crumbling at the end. These have long been our issues, why aren't they being addressed? We now seem to be scoring first then blundering away the lead. Yes Maguire is out but still. Got to be better.

Harsh, but would we be 2nd if everyone else hadn't been absolutely awful
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So sack him and get some unknown manager who also won't be able to turn Fred and McTominay into a world beating midfield. Makes sense.

This amazing 'next stage of rebuild' manager doesn't exist.
 
Leftback99 said:
So sack him and get some unknown manager who also won't be able to turn Fred and McTominay into a world beating midfield. Makes sense.

This amazing 'next stage of rebuild' manager doesn't exist.
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You think Ole is the best manager we can get?
 
romufc said:
You think there is a manager out there that will guarantee us the league / CL in the next two years?
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Well if there is, they're already at other clubs, so it's kind of moot.

I don't think Ole has what it takes for us to win the league though. I hope he proves me wrong.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Well if there is, they're already at other clubs, so it's kind of moot.

I don't think Ole has what it takes for us to win the league though. I hope he proves me wrong.
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Isn't that the problem? the best managers who you would say would be a very good chance to win the league is Pep and Klopp. They are far beyond any other manager.

So is there a point to change for the sake of it?

The big talk was Poch, he might not even win the French league and produced a really poor showing against City in the CL.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
You think Ole is the best manager we can get?
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I don't see a manager available to us that I think would do any better with these players. Look at some Caf favourites:
- Poch? Might not win the the league with PSG
- Ancelotti? Will probably finish 10th
- Rodgers? Blown top 4 again from a great position.

I don't know how people talk in such certainties on here about how great these managers are and what they'd do for us.
 
Leftback99 said:
I don't see a manager available to us that I think would do any better with these players. Look at some Caf favourites:
- Poch? Might not win the the league with PSG
- Ancelotti? Will probably finish 10th
- Rodgers? Blown top 4 again from a great position.

I don't know how people talk in such certainties on here about how great these managers are and what they'd do for us.
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I would agree regarding those 3.

And I agree that I'm not sure there's a manager available at the moment that would be an upgrade on Ole.

So we have to hope Ole is the one.
 
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