We are an awfully coached team

90 + 5min said:
As usual. Need to be said to all the youngsters in here.

It is not tactics that are wrong. It is that our players, like Rashford, think they are better then they are.
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The same shit yet again. A bad workman always blames his tools
 
OneUnited24 said:
At what point do players take responsibility ? The last few games they’ve looked like they haven’t got that spark. Given most of the team looks like that at is it coaching or does tiredness play a part?

I refuse to believe he sits there and is happy with how poor our movement is
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I don't buy this. This has been a pattern over a while now, to simply to just blame the players is not right.

Ole and his coaching staff rely far too much on individual talent. Pogba and Bailly carried us a lot of over that 7 game in run.

Far too many games, the ball goes from side to side, side to side over and over, then you get one hopeless cross into the box.

And really, did we need 2 defensive midfielders today? Martial has been awful for ages now, yet gets picked again.

Too many things point to the coaching team. I'm not only blaming Ole here, he has a coaching team he clearly relies on.
 
Betson said:
The best coaches in the world could not do a whole lot better with the players we have , we just have a lot of average players in key positions that all the coaching the world will not make any better.
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I don't buy into this line of thought. Imo it's quite the opposite. That's exactly what great managers do. They coach their team in a way that a group of average players work better as a team/unit than a sum of their individual skills would suggest.

Also, I don't agree that we have "a lot of average players". There is clearly a lot of talent in the group and a lot of potential too. It's on the coach to work on synergies and developing their game.
 
Let's wait for another 4 years once he finally gets his players and learn how to press/play progressive football, maybe in 4 years Lindelof will stop shitting himself with every ball into the box and every challenge he has to make. It is not just the tactics/overal delusion about how we should play, it's the team selection too.

Martial is absolutely horrible player, lazy bastard always second to balls, not making runs, not putting enough pressure. What's the worst, I don't think there would be anyone in for him..

Lindelof I mentioned, he's a total fraud, embarassing we manage to let him play over 100 fecking games, making mistakes in more than third of them, today, again showed he wouldn't start for any team in the premier league. Bailly on the bench? why is he not playing?

Fernandes is great, we shouldn't take away a goal from him but his form of late is absolutely horrible, his pass completionmust have been close to zero in the first half, I can imagine what would Roy Keane have done with him. So important we bring in competition and rotate Pogba with him as well, he's wasting chances after chances with his lazy high risk flicks, even some easy passes he fecks up lately, it's unbelievable..

McTominay, I mean he's a good boy and the best alongside fre we have now, but he's so slow to cover the ground, why doesn't he pushes more forward and try to show his best, driving with the ball, positionally/defensively he seems useless at times like today so at least contribute in attack which looked like something we could get out of you!

But maybe, maybe if we had a proper system, we would know how to set up against a tem alike this and Maguire wouldn't have to play as a LW.
 
Not sure about "awfully" coached but the difference between us an City in that regard is stark. Leaving aside player quality, they look a well drilled machine of a team.
 
Becomes more and more clear we miss some kind of players on our team.

We for sure need a offensive player who is challenging much more, either does the finishing himself or creates a lot of unbalance.

We can’t play both Maquire and Lindelof. They can be backup for each other, meaning we also need a new CD, more a Bailly kind of player, who can be backed up by Bailly himself.
 
PlayerOne said:
I don't buy this. This has been a pattern over a while now, to simply to just blame the players is not right.

Ole and his coaching staff rely far too much on individual talent. Pogba and Bailly carried us a lot of over that 7 game in run.

Far too many games, the ball goes from side to side, side to side over and over, then you get one hopeless cross into the box.

And really, did we need 2 defensive midfielders today? Martial has been awful for ages now, yet gets picked again.

Too many things point to the coaching team. I'm not only blaming Ole here, he has a coaching team he clearly relies on.
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I’m sorry but sure we have had bad games but we’ve also had some very good games. Everton and Leicester are two games in recent times we looked great but threw it away.

You say we have no patterns of play and it’s all down to individual talent I really can’t agree with this and I think it’ssomething that has been said once too many times by enough people and somehow become gospel. It’s late here so all I’m going to say about patterns of play is there’s a good blog about the five stages of oles tenure. I highly recommend reading it.
 
sullydnl said:
Not sure about "awfully" coached but the difference between us an City in that regard is stark. Leaving aside player quality, they look a well drilled machine of a team.
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That’s a big thing to ignore don’t you think? Say I’ve got a car I’m selling, now it’s got no engine but let’s just ignore that as it’s not important. Interested?
 
Ole doesn't coached!!! Buying players is the only way to solve our players. Individual brilliance will win our games. About a month ago, I thought he has figure out how to win. Even since Liverpool game, it is downhill all the way. We will struggle and limp to maybe a top 4 finish. It really depends on who decide to turn up to play. If you ask me, I rather see Diallo and Greenwood than Martial (can he just find some excuse not to play) and Rushford.
 
What is new? We have been very inconsistent since Ole took over. We can play 10 games brilliantly and out of sudden back to mediocre the next 10 games.

This is the sign of lack of experience in the highest level of football from Ole and the coaching team. We are still very far from the title because Pep and Kloop are capable of 100 points a season under normal conditions (post covid).
 
Betson said:
The best coaches in the world could not do a whole lot better with the players we have , we just have a lot of average players in key positions that all the coaching the world will not make any better.
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How does one even arrive at that conclusion?

The line between coach and players performance is obviously incredibly blurred but what you're saying is quite the leap.

These players are capable we've seen it. It's a coaches job to get performances out of your most capable players. For what you've said to be true our coaches are getting every last bit out of these players, through the system, training and working on their mentality. That seems unlikely to me.
 
Dan_F said:
Right. And that’s why Cavani touched the ball like three times? You’re right in the sense that the tactics can’t be wrong if you don’t have any to begin with.

West Brom probably created as many chances than us today with about 20% possession.
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They created because they waited us to go all forward and left spaces. Very common when big teams try to score against lesser teams.

When it comes to tactics we were better except in the box. That is because we made situations worse. Instead of players passing and moving we had some who held the ball like it was their body parts.

Maluco said:
The coaches should have the authority to explain to them what they are doing wrong and, you know, coach them to become better players.

In other words, the issue you have pointed out is still a coaching problem.
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I agree. And I hope that Solskjaer is telling them. Otherwise it is manager that is problem in this matter. I'm getting sick of seeing players like Martial and Rashford breaking down and slowing down every attack we start. I would go as far as to say that losing points today is because of them not doing what the rest of the team was. Trying to play ball with tempo. Solskjaer need to have a word with them.
 
OneUnited24 said:
I’m sorry but sure we have had bad games but we’ve also had some very good games. Everton and Leicester are two games in recent times we looked great but threw it away.

You say we have no patterns of play and it’s all down to individual talent I really can’t agree with this and I think it’ssomething that has been said once too many times by enough people and somehow become gospel. It’s late here so all I’m going to say about patterns of play is there’s a good blog about the five stages of oles tenure. I highly recommend reading it.
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Right, so why does this happen so often against poor teams? It's not just this season either, it has been a pattern under Ole.

Without Pogba, no one can create from the middle. Look how often one player picks up the ball and does something that surprises the whole team, you can't tell me there's a pattern there. Even our set pieces, we just make it up as we go.

Everton is a great example of poor game management by the way, but that's other an issue with the coaching team.
 
We will not get top 4. He should be catapulted out of the club if that happens. But if he by a miracle manages to get top 4, then he should be sacked without being catapulted, just tell him thank you for your service, it did not work.
 
90 + 5min said:
As usual. Need to be said to all the youngsters in here.

It is not tactics that are wrong. It is that our players, like Rashford, think they are better then they are.
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I think it’s both that are wrong tbh
 
Betson said:
The best coaches in the world could not do a whole lot better with the players we have , we just have a lot of average players in key positions that all the coaching the world will not make any better.
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My god... the excuses... What would Ole do if he was managing Leicester’s squad then? Or Everton’s? They will be level with us if they win their games in hand. Our squad is not full of average players, it does have an average manager though, thats for sure.
 
OneUnited24 said:
That’s a big thing to ignore don’t you think? Say I’ve got a car I’m selling, now it’s got no engine but let’s just ignore that as it’s not important. Interested?
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I say "leaving aside player quality" because it's a separate debate, not because it isn't important. But seeing as you mention it, the difference between us and City in terms of quality of performance is a lot bigger than the gap between our playing personnel. And that's down to the evident gap in coaching.

I'm not criticising our coaching team for not having us ahead of City. I'm criticising them for not being as good at coaching as City's coaching team.
 
90 + 5min said:
They created because they waited us to go all forward and left spaces. Very common when big teams try to score against lesser teams.

When it comes to tactics we were better except in the box. That is because we made situations worse. Instead of players passing and moving we had some who held the ball like it was their body parts.
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I agree. That’s why we continually play better on the break and shit against deep defences. We aren’t coached like a top team.
 
PlayerOne said:
Right, so why does this happen so often against poor teams? It's not just this season either, it has been a pattern under Ole.

Without Pogba, no one can create from the middle. Look how often one player picks up the ball and does something that surprises the whole team, you can't tell me there's a pattern there. Even our set pieces, we just make it up as we go.

Everton is a great example of poor game management by the way, but that's other an issue with the coaching team.
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So we don’t have the personal atm who can create from the middle and that’s on the manager to somehow coach good forward passing into two players that aren’t known for it. Got it.
 
bond19821982 said:
The same shit yet again. A bad workman always blames his tools
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Solskjaer is not immune against critic. But people should not write direct after the game when if they are to emotional. It either is best in the world or worst in the world. My advise is wait an hour and write.

If a workman don't have tools, what then? If a firefighter goes to fire with only a bottle of water?
 
OneUnited24 said:
So we don’t have the personal atm who can create from the middle and that’s on the manager to somehow coach good forward passing into two players that aren’t known for it. Got it.
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Picking 2 defensive midfielders who are not good on the ball is good management, eh?
 
Take Bruno out of this team and we'd be keeping West B, Fulham and Sheff Utd company. I wonder then whether the 'Ole in' crowd would want to give him more time? On a TEAM playing creatively I wouldn't put him in in the top 15 of the PL!
 
Some posters will never say a bad word about the manager. I see today we’re back to “the players are crap, no manager could do better”.

It’s a funny cycle around this place. Play well = Ole, play shit = players.

The manager after 2.5 years is ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch, both the good form and the poor form, and that’s what will decide Ole’s fate by the end of the season.

I for one have absolutely no idea how the final 14 games will pan out, I wouldn’t bet 2p on it. We could win 12, we could win 6. Who knows?
 
Betson said:
The best coaches in the world could not do a whole lot better with the players we have , we just have a lot of average players in key positions that all the coaching the world will not make any better.
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Are we honestly doing this now? Look across our squad and then look across the squads of the teams we've struggled against. West Brom, Sheffield Utd, Wolves, Brighton, West Ham etc. Player for player, we have a better squad than at least 80% of the league, yet we still can't put two routine wins together in a row.

Neither the players not the manager have covered themselves in glory this season, but being so quick to throw the players under the bus is ridiculous.
 
MonkeysMagic said:
Take Bruno out of this team and we'd be keeping West B, Fulham and Sheff Utd company. I wonder then whether the 'Ole in' crowd would want to give him more time? On a TEAM playing creatively I wouldn't put him in in the top 15 of the PL!
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Course they would, it's a religion. It'll be about the players again and how he's not been backed as if he's managing a Sunday league side. These people are blind.
 
90 + 5min said:
Solskjaer is not immune against critic. But people should not write direct after the game when if they are to emotional. It either is best in the world or worst in the world. My advise is wait an hour and write.

If a workman don't have tools, what then? If a firefighter goes to fire with only a bottle of water?
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That's not point. How long are we going to wait ? For every 1 step ,we are taking 2 steps back.
He has taken us as far as he could.

Yes, we had a great first half- 40 points from 19 at approx 2 ppg.

Now 5 points from last 5 . Ringing any bells ? This is exactly how Oles whole tenure has been.
 
OneUnited24 said:
So we don’t have the personal atm who can create from the middle and that’s on the manager to somehow coach good forward passing into two players that aren’t known for it. Got it.
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I believe Juan Mata is still at the club. Not injured as far as I know. I thought today would have been the perfect sort of game for him. Not even on the bench. Van de Beek is another attack-minded central midfielder who's (supposedly) good with the ball at his feet. Given ten minutes today.

The manager has options if he wants a more attacking midfield. He just refuses to use them.
 
Betson said:
The best coaches in the world could not do a whole lot better with the players we have , we just have a lot of average players in key positions that all the coaching the world will not make any better.
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The best coaches in the world couldn't make this squad that has been assembled by millions and millions of pounds to win against the bottom end of the table?
 
Aretak said:
I believe Juan Mata is still at the club. Not injured as far as I know. I thought today would have been the perfect sort of game for him. Not even on the bench. Van de Beek is another attack-minded central midfielder who's (supposedly) good with the ball at his feet. Given ten minutes today.

The manager has options if he wants a more attacking midfield. He just refuses to use them.
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Both those players have never been trusted to play in a midfield two but away to West Brom is the perfect game ? Ok.
 
We need to be careful what we wish for abit and there’s partly where my support is coming from even in a really difficult period for the team. To my mind its clear that Ole is one of the best man managers around at the moment for this squad. Even the staunchest Ole critics have to admit that all of the players have been pulling in the same direction and playing for the manager the whole time. That wasn’t the case under the previous guys.

I do however think there are some obvious coaching weaknesses that could end up holding us back. We still don’t play particularly well as a team, in any phase of the game. I’m on the fence. If we could get a progressive manager in who can implement his style onto this team we could kick on and improve, equally if they can’t control the egos we could end up in a situation like Mourinho again where certain good players are alienated.
 
I'm always amazed at how shit at passing is, especially in the early stages of our build-up play. It's so slow, usually sideways, and the amount of touches we take is appalling. We also hold on to the ball for waaaaay too long and wait for all of our passing angles to disappear before we start the process again. It's an awful part of our game.
 
OneUnited24 said:
At what point do players take responsibility ? The last few games they’ve looked like they haven’t got that spark. Given most of the team looks like that at is it coaching or does tiredness play a part?

I refuse to believe he sits there and is happy with how poor our movement is. Especially when it was good after the that Tottenham result. It’s only recent games we’ve looked this bad
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But can you please highlight one time in Solskjaer's entire career that his team has been known for a prolific system, movement and ethos ?

Ole has not given this team an identity, even the pundits have easily discerned this. Some people are going on as if Solskjaer is a revolutionary philosophical master when it comes to patterns of play etc and that the players are falling well below his supposed standard. It's an absolutely ridiculous admission.
 
The most damning thing is that Albion were unlucky not to win. I’ve got to say, that was a disappointing spectacle from a United perspective. We created one or two moments amongst a sea of absolute mediocrity.
 
MonkeysMagic said:
Take Bruno out of this team and we'd be keeping West B, Fulham and Sheff Utd company. I wonder then whether the 'Ole in' crowd would want to give him more time? On a TEAM playing creatively I wouldn't put him in in the top 15 of the PL!
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Take the hyperbole to another forum. Doesn’t add to the debate so either make valid points (of which there are many) or go elsewhere.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Some posters will never say a bad word about the manager. I see today we’re back to “the players are crap, no manager could do better”.

It’s a funny cycle around this place. Play well = Ole, play shit = players.

The manager after 2.5 years is ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch, that’s what will decide Ole’s fate by the end of the season. I for one have absolutely no idea how the final 14 games will pan out, I wouldn’t bet 2p on it.
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Mental, isn't it. Our fans like no other should know the value an amazing manager brings. But after watching a great great manager SAF dominate the league for years, they simply came to conclusion that every average Joe can do it if he is given 5 years to buy his entire squad. We have a talented squad which simply lacks a very good manager to take us to another level. Pep would do wonders with this team.
 
OneUnited24 said:
When he took one off you saw how open we were right? Also who else is fit that isn’t a defensive minded midfielder.
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That's risk taking, Fergie was good at it. You have to go for it, the sub should have been made at half-time, along with Greenwood.

I refuse to believe Pep or even Rodgers would not have won the game today with this team. West Brom are not a good side and Sam is not a good manager anymore.
 
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