We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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not going to get into the whole debate here, but Liverpool’s performances and results remained very good last season even after losing who most think is their best player - Virgil Van Djik. It was when they lost every single senior centre half and had to move their best midfielder to cover that position they went through that run of terrible results before turning it back around.
At the end of the day, every single team will suffer greatly if you take out 4 or 5 key players from the team’s spine for long stretches, including all senior players in one position, which is what happened to them.
One of the biggest examples of a team struggling when losing just one key player was Man City the season Liverpool won the league, and they had Laporte out for so long, and Guardiola is the best coach in Europe in the eyes of many. So you would be better off using them as an example maybe for this argument. It would make much more sense.
I’ll tackle the second point first.
When Van Gaal was appointed, the fan were still reeling from the abomination of Moyes, which the fan base was probably 98% opposed to in the first place. Moyes had no resume, no trophies to his name. Van Gaal had lots of trophies to his name and he brought with him a kind of tactical sophistication that was supposed to shower us with trophies. My concern was that English game, and United’s tradition, demanded a more attack-minded manager. Dumb luck, but I was right. But Mourinho was a different manager: recent success in England and in Europe supported the claim he would be a perfect fit. My concern was that he left Chelsea in shambles and that we would do the same for United. That’s exactly what happened. I’m not sure what the point is in going over this history other than to suggest that great managerial resumes are no guarantee that a manager will be successful for his next gig. Very few managers are a sure thing. There may be no more than three or four managers in the world who we could bring in right now (if they were hypothetically available) and be a guaranteed success.
As for the first point, we weren’t playing that well before the red card but we did have the lead. An attacker had to be subbed off. There was little reason to believe that that our attacking game would have improved. It’s only in hindsight that we could have foreseen the possibility of Lingard, a player whom I do not rate and I do blame Ole for keeping, gifting away victory to the opposition.
We've got a style of football that will win us the league this season.
wow
Rookies, failures and people coasting by since we were last an elite side.
I think that stat is pretty skewed because of the spurs disaster but definitely not a positive regardless.
Forget about the formations. We simply don't know what to do when we have the ball. Most of the time it's trying to launch a counter attack. We don't know where to move and when to pass and whom to pass. It's all down to the individual player.
'Terribly coached' team lost same number of PL games as one of the finest coaches ever to manage in the game did last season in Pep.
We are also top of the league.
Love hearing people on here talking about coaching what with all their expert knowledge in the field. Hahahaha
We are also top of the league.
Love hearing people on here talking about coaching what with all their expert knowledge in the field. Hahahaha
As opposed to certain people with a career full of experience playing for United, who are qualified enough to criticize AWB and say "I told you so"
We're not experts in any aspect of football. Should we close the forum then? If you feel you have insufficient intellectual capacity to discuss football then that's your prerogative really. Most people don't.
We came 2nd last season. Lost same games as City. Got to a European final. We were 2nd highest scorers in the league too. Yet we are coached poorly apparently.
What you moaners are really saying is we aren't coached as well as a Pep team. That would be a fairer criticism.
No one is asking for us to go and steal Pep from City. There's plenty of manager between Pep and Ole that would be options for the club if the season is derailed. Most people's issue here is that there are delusional Ole supporters who will never blame him for anything because of his history at the club. If this result happened to Mourinho (this was worse than Sevilla in my eyes) this whole forum would want the manager sacked. Honestly I'm more frustrated with the blind support for Ole than I am with Ole himself. I don't think he's good enough for the job but he did finish second last year and even if I think he's a mediocre manager who could be easily replaced he gets a few more results like this before I think he should be fired. It feels like any time there are expectations (Villareal, title winning squad, after beating PSG in Paris, top of the league last year midseason) Ole immediately folds and every ounce of progress is erased. A Manager should help his squad rise to the occasion, and I feel like he does the opposite.
Doubt it. Mourinho has a crazy following
'Ole immediately folds' yet we have the longest unbeaten away record in the club's history and Ole also has a better head to head record Vs Pep in the league.
Loads of Ole outers wanted Poch. He came 2nd to Lille last season and couldn't beat Bruges last night with 11 men on pitch unlike us with 10.
Conte is available some say. He's won 3 of his last 15 CL ties in management. Hardly amazing.
It's just moaning now. It's boring. We are top of the league at the moment and only lost other night because of a red card. People need to get in the real world. Ole ain't going anywhere soon so I suggest doing something else on match days if supporting a club legend is too much for some of you.
I am not for or against Ole, just to be clear. I am shocked that you would suggest coming 2nd in Europa is an accomplishment for United.
I do find it weird that Ole is pretty much the only manager who could be top of the league on a record breaking away run, lose one game because of a red card and immediately his job is under threat.
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Mark Dempsey isn't with the first team anymore and Eric Ramsay is missing from the list. Also think it's a bit harsh to say Phelan failed with Hull. He was in a bad situation (similar to Ole at Cardiff) a lot of off field issues. He got to a great start there and won manager of the month before it went to shit. Anyway, some coaches are better at being number two's.
Rookies, failures and people coasting by since we were last an elite side.
IIRC the goalkeeper coach was let go because he was getting involved in De Gea's contract negotiations.
What annoys me is you already know how the West Ham (and most games to be honest) will go. We will start quite well, maybe creat 3 or 4 quick chances, probably score once, maybe twice in the first 30mins or so, then we will finish off the first hal;f on the back foot, and for most of the second half we will be dominated, and maybe with a bit of luck win the game by 1 goal. Possible end up drawing the game.
Its getting tedious.
Its getting tedious.
Ah yes, typical Ole supporter, insulting any fan that exposes his mediocrity. "if you have a problem with him you're just not as good as a fan as I am". The level of nepotism here is real.
Tried to coat is as "a European final"
Major European final for some.Tried to coat is as "a European final"
We just need better coaching staffs. Let the manager do his work, Ole is good at managing the players and at transfers. The tactical bits he can just use others expertise to add to his own. Better coaching staffs help both the manager and the team without having to rebuild the squad.
So who decides the lineup? The subs? Tactical changes during the game?
There's a difference between getting some help to being dependent on others. A manager cannot be someone who needs others to hold his hand.
Top of the league after 4 games means absolutely nothing and with Ole even being top in January doesn't mean much as we learned last season.
The away record is nice and all but we still lost so many away crucial games in other competitions during the same period.
Its better than having people who only say yes boss. I refuse to believe Carrick sees how we play right now and think its the way. He was a very good midfielder himself and seeing us losing the ball 5 times in 20 minutes should feel like hell to him.
His name is literally Brexit brigade. Probably best left alone
"Overarching philosophy… I don’t sit here and claim and talk... football is a simple game and it's about making good decisions and being in a team.
Sometimes we look too much into the all intricacies and it’s passion, it's desire - who wants to win the ball? Which one of the striker has the desire to get on the end of crosses?
You can talk about all sorts, it looks nice on paper. But when you go out on that pitch, it's who wants to win, that’s one of the big things. You want winners and I think I’m getting there with my team, team players."
And finally we got an answer from man himself. Coaching is; you must really,really really really really want to win.
This guy is a joke.
Sometimes we look too much into the all intricacies and it’s passion, it's desire - who wants to win the ball? Which one of the striker has the desire to get on the end of crosses?
You can talk about all sorts, it looks nice on paper. But when you go out on that pitch, it's who wants to win, that’s one of the big things. You want winners and I think I’m getting there with my team, team players."
And finally we got an answer from man himself. Coaching is; you must really,really really really really want to win.
This guy is a joke.
Nobody knows what Carrick is like as a coach, no player comes out and say he's helping them along in their game and it's concerning since he's been here under Van Gaal, Jose and now Ole and yet nobody really knows what he's contributing.
Carrick wasn't a coach under van Gaal.
Who says Carrick is a yes man? He may have a different view from the manager, but at the end of the day it is the manager who decides how we play. It wil not change if we bring in someone else. Unless the manager is open for updating himself.
Well, maybe he's crap and needs to be replaced. And if the manager doesn't see it and insists on keeping him, then he should be replaced himself.
Seriously, I find it annoying when people talk about the likes of Carrick and McKenna They are very young coaches and we have no idea how good they are. Maybe they are brilliant at what they do, but are hampered by a manager who wants to play a certain way. Maybe they are bad in their jobs, but the manager insists on keeping them. One way or the other, the bucks stops with the manager.
All due respect to coaches and assistant coaches, teams take the structure and style of their manager (or head coach if there's no manager). An assistant or a coach cannot save a manager from himself.
And maybe the managers ineptitude is a result of those who persist with him. Maybe we should look at the wider picture. It all comes back to the club structure and ultimately the owners and their priorities. Is Ole doing well in those parameters. Results on their own suggest he is.
What is the solution?
If he wins the league this year a good section of our support will have to disappear forever. Be amazing.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough for these plastic fans. When we win it's down to players but when we lose its on Ole. How does that even work?
Ah, plastic fans phrase. Original. Lovely.
Btw, bashing United players and to want them replaced is ok but if you do that for manager then you are plastic fan. How does that even work?
Because he's not even done a bad job. We are top of the league ffs. We came 2nd to one of greatest coaches of all time. Is that sackable offence?
No if we happy with finishing in the top 4 every season but yes if the club is ambitious and wants to actually win trophies and not continually flopping in the champions league group stages which actually makes finishing in the top 4 an even more hollow achievement than it already is
3 years without single trophy and even title challenge with Man Utd? Yes, it is.
I wouldn't say he's done a bad job but I do think he's unproven still.
People said he'd not make top 4 in his first full season because he was a PE teacher and took Cardiff down. He came 3rd.
They then said he'd struggle last year to match it as it was a fluke. We came 2nd.
We have now added Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane to the team that came 2nd.
Keep doubting him. He keeps proving people wrong.
LVG didn't finish 2nd. Jose did once but he didn't come 3rd in his other season. So Ole had already surpassed two of the all time greats in league finishes.
We can't keep sacking managers and starting again. Ole deserves to see this out now and see if he can take us there.
8 years without a title challenge. Let's blame Ole.