Wayne Rooney, The Midfield General? Mourinho Says No.

What should we do with Rooney ?

  • Keep him as a starting XI player

    Votes: 23 6.7%
  • Sell him

    Votes: 221 64.8%
  • Keep him as a squad player

    Votes: 97 28.4%

  • Total voters
    341
  • Poll closed .
Your opinion is wrong. On multiple grounds.

First, people who do not "examine themselves" cannot really get to the top of their professions, no matter how much talent they happen to have. To improve, you have to work hard on your weaknesses. Without hard work, talent means nothing.

Second, Rooney has been the best English player in Euro 2016. Omitting him was a stupid blunder. Now England has finished below Wales (!!!) and it will have to face harder opponents.

He really isn't wrong. The core of "world class" England players from the "golden generation" who have/had the media and agents telling them how great they are/were did anything but "examine themselves". The disbelief when Rio, Terry, Gerrard and Lampard couldn't recreate their club form for England was bizarre. Managers invariably got the blame for the players not reproducing their club form.

They weren't as good because Rio didn't have Vidic, Terry didn't have Carvalho, Gerrard didn't have Alonso/Mascherano and Lampard didn't have Makalele/Essien next to them. Not only did those players provide better balance but they were better players with smaller egos.

Rooney's favourite is "sacrificing himself for the good of the team" and mentioning how he should "demand to play in his best position". Ignoring the rewriting of history that Rooney comsistently played wide to accommodate Ronaldo, you just have to look at last season. He promised 20/25 goals if played up front and he failed miserably. How many times has he (or the media) acknowledged that without blaming the manager?

As for his role in midfield, Rooney definitely has the ability to contribute effectively in that role. He can do it if United can find 2 top class players to play there with him to get the best out of him.
 
As for his role in midfield, Rooney definitely has the ability to contribute effectively in that role. He can do it if United can find 2 top class players to play there with him to get the best out of him.

I don't follow your logic; why would we look for two top players to accommodate (or get the best out of) Rooney? Wouldn't it be easier to replace Rooney with 1 player who can do the job?
 
You just lack understanding. Stats do not only measure or quantify things, they also fixate the facts of the match as well. I was talking about the latter. If i were to talk about "measuring" i would have used normalized version. That is per 90 minute, so you don't have to google what "normalized" means and get it wrong as you did with "tangible".
Once more on a concrete aka tangible example. In maps i presented there is an array of examples, so it's not a quantification but rather a discrete (that means separate, independent just so you know) set of football events. In our cases passes. That is a tangible proof as opposed to people just ignorantly claiming something as you did.
As i've said distinction without a difference. You can google it. Not sure about your math skill and your ability to interpret the analogy, but i'll try anyway.
There is no two things that are completely identical. When i was describing their pass maps i certainly did not think that anybody would assume that i was talking bout how every single pass from Rooney and Kroos was identical in place from which it started, speed, success etc. That is impossible. And here is the same thing. Does it mean that possibly of such an occurrence, an identical match for Rooney and Kroos is nill, zero? No. It can't be nill, since it can happen in principle, but we understand that it is something like 0,0..(many zeroes here)..01%, so we can safely assume (or neglect this small amount) that will never happen and just call it "impossible". Same principle with with Kroos and Rooney, in their cases the amount is a bit higher of course, but not as high to actually matter. If Krooses passe were slightly, like 10 degrees more, "forward'y", yet not one of them actually created a chance or resulted in any significant actions, that hardly matters.
:lol: You're doing a great job of deferring from the fact JP made you look a complete fool. Simply, you've posted a map to prove how similar they are and once JP points out how to use the bloody thing you've retracted half of your statement.

I've used the same language as you, except I didn't need to waste 15 mimutes explaining what hyperbole was, I assumed we were both on the same page there, I assumed wrongly.

This is their respective pass map. It's literally the same apart from the fact that Kroos has more passes, but his touch map is also more focused on the left, while Rooney "wider".

After JP made you look like a moron you've elaborated significantly on what you described as 'literally the same' (see previous paragraph'. So much so you've now resorted to everyone's favourite stat 'chances created'. Google it and you'll see how utterly meaningless it actually is.

Would you like a bigger shovel sir?
 
Last edited:
All I hope about Rooney, is that the rumours about a new contract to see him until he retires at United, have not one ounce of truth in them.
I believe he'll perform ok next season for us, but extending his contract any further would be a monumental mistake by the club.
Wayne needs to be phased out over the next 2 seasons. He can go do a few season in the USA or Aussieland to make sure his retirement isn't too uncomfortable!
 
If we manage to buy 2 good midfielders, he wont play too much. Rooney a midfield general? You've got to be kidding me
 
Your opinion is wrong. On multiple grounds.

First, people who do not "examine themselves" cannot really get to the top of their professions, no matter how much talent they happen to have. To improve, you have to work hard on your weaknesses. Without hard work, talent means nothing.

Second, Rooney has been the best English player in Euro 2016. Omitting him was a stupid blunder. Now England has finished below Wales (!!!) and it will have to face harder opponents.
WUM alert!
 
I don't follow your logic; why would we look for two top players to accommodate (or get the best out of) Rooney? Wouldn't it be easier to replace Rooney with 1 player who can do the job?

Yes. I am not suggesting they do that. I am suggesting that like Gerrard or Lampard he can he can perform well in a 3 man midfield with the right support. He has a similar skillset in my opinion (ego included).

Those 2 supporting players may even be at the club. There was no cohesion in the midfield under LVG. It will be really interesting to see how a manager with a plan shapes the midfield.
 
Rooney is the captain of the team that we support and the captain of the national team. He has a top contract for THREE more years. Not one, not two, THREE more years!

He will soon be the all-time top scorer of Man Utd. He is already the top scorer of the national team.

He is a legend for Man Utd. A legend for England.

He will definitely remain at the club for three more years, perhaps more. For many reasons. It is very beneficial for the club to have legends in its ranks. It is also impossible to find another team that will give Rooney a better contract. And it is probably impossible to have Rooney agree to a move so late in his career. So he is staying.

That's the reality. It's quite simple actually!

If you don't like reality, there are many options, for example you can play FIFA or whatever other game you like! :cool:
 
Last edited:
I believe there's been a real problem with entitlement & England regulars over the years, and this entitlement/arrogance carries over to their club-life. Here's the latest chapter; oh, and please don't waste my time by telling me that it's all just the fantasy of a journalist:



Players like Rooney, Gerrard, Terry etc practically never blame or examine themselves when things go awry. This time 'round, it's Hodgson instead of LVG, Benitez or Capello being thrown under the bus. You'd hope that England's - and United's - chiefs would eventually get wise to this kind of thing, but don't hold your breath.
For an example of that all you have to do is look at what happened that one game when LVG dropped Rooney. It was treated like he had somehow wronged a god and he was a lunatic for even considering such a thing. The fact Rooney had been shite for months was totally ignored in favour of the narrative that the England captain cannot be dropped. Even now the idea that he won't be in he team next season isn't even being considered, he's a great midfielder now.

Lampard and Gerrard clearly didn't work together, but it would have been the same thing if either of them were dropped. The protection afforded by mates in the media I think holds both the player and their team back.

Your opinion is clearly wrong though. You've been told.
 
When all is said and done, it really comes down to one amiable fact; you all hate Wayne Rooney. Confront your hatred, only then may you rid yourself of it.

Wayne "Iniesta aint got shizzle on me" Rooney will play a major part in our campaign next season.
Yip we all hate him.... at least when he was a half decent footballer you could
Rooney is the captain of the team that we support and the captain of the national team. He has a top contract for THREE more years. Not one, not two, THREE more years!

He will soon be the all-time top scorer of Man Utd. He is already the top scorer of the national team.

He is a legend for Man Utd. A legend for England.

He will definitely remain at the club for three more years, perhaps more. For many reasons. It is very beneficial for the club to have legends in its ranks. It is also impossible to find another team that will give Rooney a better contract. And it is probably impossible to have Rooney agree to a move so late in his career. So he is staying.

That's the reality. It's quite simple actually!

If you don't like reality, there are many options, for example you can play FIFA or whatever other game you like! :cool:
Yeah Brian Robson is a club legend and he could still match Rooney's mobility in midfield.

The reality is he is a rapidly fading star.....very poor last season with worse to come this year.

I agree no other team would even consider taking such an overpaid player and we are suck with him, hopefully only as a squad player mind.
If he starts in midfield the reality is a struggle for top 4 again next year.
 
Rooney has broken scoring records, both for the national team and for united. And he did this playing left, right, center, and back. And he always tries, and gives his all, even when he does not play well.

You cannot really ask much more than that.

You cannot blame Rooney for the underachievement of England or United.

In the last 10-12 years, if everyone else scored as much as Rooney, or in general contributed as much as Rooney in their respective positions, then England would be world champion and United would have won a few more CL trophies.

Yes, he isn't as good as Messi, it's true. But I don't think we will find someone like Rooney any time soon... let alone find someone like Messi! Appreciate what we have.
 
If we manage to buy 2 good midfielders, he wont play too much. Rooney a midfield general? You've got to be kidding me

This. Midfield general makes me chuckle when I see this. I liked the look of the boy Mario for Portugal today. Would like to see him in a midfield 3. Pace power running at people. Everything that Rooney doesn't have
 
Rooney has broken scoring records, both for the national team and for united. And he did this playing left, right, center, and back. And he always tries, and gives his all, even when he does not play well.

You cannot really ask much more than that.

You cannot blame Rooney for the underachievement of England or United.

In the last 10-12 years, if everyone else scored as much as Rooney, or in general contributed as much as Rooney in their respective positions, then England would be world champion and United would have won a few more CL trophies.

Yes, he isn't as good as Messi, it's true. But I don't think we will find someone like Rooney any time soon... let alone find someone like Messi! Appreciate what we have.
Is he a legend? Yes.
Is he still good enough? No.
Does he earn his 300k? No.
Is he good for the club? No.
Could we find a player better than him? Comfortably.

That's all that matters. When United were performing below Rooneys expectations he almost left. Only assurances and a massive contract kept him there. Why should it be any different the other way round?
 
Is he a legend? Yes.
Is he still good enough? No.
Does he earn his 300k? No.
Is he good for the club? No.
Could we find a player better than him? Comfortably.

That's all that matters. When United were performing below Rooneys expectations he almost left. Only assurances and a massive contract kept him there. Why should it be any different the other way round?

:lol: Mate you really should learn to ignore him. I've long given up deciding if he's the biggest Rooney WUM or just has astronomical stupidity.
 
Rooney has broken scoring records, both for the national team and for united. And he did this playing left, right, center, and back. And he always tries, and gives his all, even when he does not play well.

You cannot really ask much more than that.

You cannot blame Rooney for the underachievement of England or United.

In the last 10-12 years, if everyone else scored as much as Rooney, or in general contributed as much as Rooney in their respective positions, then England would be world champion and United would have won a few more CL trophies.

Yes, he isn't as good as Messi, it's true. But I don't think we will find someone like Rooney any time soon... let alone find someone like Messi! Appreciate what we have.
Appreciate what we had for sure. He was a very good player and served the club well.
He is now way of his best however.
 
:lol: Mate you really should learn to ignore him. I've long given up deciding if he's the biggest Rooney WUM or just has astronomical stupidity.
Sorry but it is hard to disagree with any of his points. Other than in the last month his form was terrible last season.
 
Rooney has broken scoring records, both for the national team and for united. And he did this playing left, right, center, and back. And he always tries, and gives his all, even when he does not play well.

You cannot really ask much more than that.

You cannot blame Rooney for the underachievement of England or United.

In the last 10-12 years, if everyone else scored as much as Rooney, or in general contributed as much as Rooney in their respective positions, then England would be world champion and United would have won a few more CL trophies.

Yes, he isn't as good as Messi, it's true. But I don't think we will find someone like Rooney any time soon... let alone find someone like Messi! Appreciate what we have.
Elaborate on these United scoring records. Because last time you repeatedly claimed this you were claiming he was in fact our all time top scorer.

You can ask more than him trying and giving his all. You simply tell him not to play when his best isn't good enough and to accept this.
 
:lol: Mate you really should learn to ignore him. I've long given up deciding if he's the biggest Rooney WUM or just has astronomical stupidity.
To be fair it's the first time I've replied to him. But you're right, one response is too many!
 
Funny that when LvG played Rooney in midfield he was labelled clueless by the press and fans for playing a No 10 or 9 in CM. Suddenly the same critics now say he must play in CM and never as a striker but they never acknowledge their double standards
 
Rooney has broken scoring records, both for the national team and for united. And he did this playing left, right, center, and back. And he always tries, and gives his all, even when he does not play well.

You cannot really ask much more than that.

You cannot blame Rooney for the underachievement of England or United.

In the last 10-12 years, if everyone else scored as much as Rooney, or in general contributed as much as Rooney in their respective positions, then England would be world champion and United would have won a few more CL trophies.

Yes, he isn't as good as Messi, it's true. But I don't think we will find someone like Rooney any time soon... let alone find someone like Messi! Appreciate what we have.
You can't blame one of the highest paid players in the world,for not being able to influence (in the slightest) the outcome of any game he plays in?
Pull your noggin out of that desert sand mate!
Who's the common denominator with England and United and their boringly slow, dull football?
I don't blame him, I blame the idiots in charge who can't or won't see what most of us see, plus the bad brow beating advice given by some of our clueless pundits.
 
You can't blame one of the highest paid players in the world,for not being able to influence (in the slightest) the outcome of any game he plays in?
Pull your noggin out of that desert sand mate!
Who's the common denominator with England and United and their boringly slow, dull football?
I don't blame him, I blame the idiots in charge who can't or won't see what most of us see, plus the bad brow beating advice given by some of our clueless pundits.
this is an important factor many of us forget. it used to be managers who decided who their midfielders were. Not the players whims
 
You can't blame one of the highest paid players in the world,for not being able to influence (in the slightest) the outcome of any game he plays in?
Pull your noggin out of that desert sand mate!
Who's the common denominator with England and United and their boringly slow, dull football?
I don't blame him, I blame the idiots in charge who can't or won't see what most of us see, plus the bad brow beating advice given by some of our clueless pundits.

Funny how these pundits are mainly ABUs; Redknapp, Carragher, Owen, Hargreaves, Souness etc
 
He's been a solid player who has shone at times, but not often enough.

His time is up as a striker and he will prove in the game against Iceland that he cannot do much special in a central midfield position.

For me, he's been massively overrated and put up there with the true greats of modern football when in fact he was at his peak very good, but never phenomenal in my opinion.

For those talking about his scoring records, he's achieved them either a) in very good to almost great United teams or b) against generally fairly mediocre international opposition.

He does not belong in the midfield for United and he must not be given a new contract.

Thanks for your service Wayne, but we need to move on.
 
some guy came on talksport today talking about Rooney and how he has one main trick, the lofty pass to the right. Think it was Adrian Durham and he just sheepishly laughed and acknowledged. Everyone sees it already
 
Ive noticed a lot of peoples lineups with potential signings and there seems to be a lot of lineups without Rooney in the team.
Do people really expect him to not be starting/dropped by Jose ?

I think a lot of people expect/accept that he will be in the team but hope that he won't.

I think at best the season will be used to ease him out of the "guaranteed starter" status. He'll be given enough rope to be held accountable for his own fate. Hopefully he will re-invigorate himself and prove to be a valuable asset, I expect he will largely flatter to deceive and have at least one stretch of truly atrocious form (as is becoming the standard Rooney season).
 
Nice timely reminder we're fecked if we rely on him next season.
 
I think a lot of people expect/accept that he will be in the team but hope that he won't.

I think at best the season will be used to ease him out of the "guaranteed starter" status. He'll be given enough rope to be held accountable for his own fate. Hopefully he will re-invigorate himself and prove to be a valuable asset, I expect he will largely flatter to deceive and have at least one stretch of truly atrocious form (as is becoming the standard Rooney season).

If rooney is used has a no10 he could work in the short term, but we still need our engine room improved, bastian and morgan unsure of, and I can't see herrera working if we got rooney in that advanced role, fellaini, mata and herrera I feel jose does not need, has it feels a bit overkill needing to keep all 3 who's best position is closer to the striker and 2 wingers. Problem with rooney? has we see tonight, his overall control of the game is poor, and his goals really are drying up, unless he scores the penalty's
 
Maybe its the blue shirts - he thinks England are playing Italy.
If we rely on him next season, we are inviting disaster.
 
If he's in the starting line up in December, I don't think we would be in the top 4. A top 4 team has to have someone better than this.
 
If rooney is used has a no10 he could work in the short term, but we still need our engine room improved, bastian and morgan unsure of, and I can't see herrera working if we got rooney in that advanced role, fellaini, mata and herrera I feel jose does not need, has it feels a bit overkill needing to keep all 3 who's best position is closer to the striker and 2 wingers. Problem with rooney? has we see tonight, his overall control of the game is poor, and his goals really are drying up, unless he scores the penalty's
Oh we move him to 10 again? we've already moved him from there because he wasn't good enough. There's only one place left for him and it's not on the pitch.
 
I've seen some overrated tripe in my time but, Wayne Rooney, since 2012, is right up there with the very worst.

That tonight is nothing short of embarrassing
 
This should be a wake up call for United. If we rely on Rooney like England in midfield then we have no chance. I'm sorry great player for many years but he hasn't got it anymore. Evidence is clear that you cannot drop back into midfield and learn the position.
If I was watching this without the knowledge Rooney was on 250k or 300k and you told me that's his salary I would not believe it. I would be ringing up for a white van and men in straight jackets to take you away.
 
Can someone put together a video of his touches and passes today? That would make for some interesting viewing.