Wayne Rooney, The Midfield General? Mourinho Says No.

[ivaldo]

Not to mention that Scholesy played that very same pass on a weekly basis and was lauded for it being a glorious crossfield ball. When Rooney produces the same pass it is mocked as a hollywood pass.

You can see how some people would confuse this "inconsistency" with agendarism (I don't care if that's not a word, it bloody well should be!)

Watch how Scholes drilled it to the feet of the winger and watch how Rooney floats it behind the full back and then you'll understand the difference. The weight and flatness of Scholes passes moved the ball on quickly and cut defenders out of the game, Rooneys passing spends so much time in the air it defeats the object of switching it.

This is how Rooney should be passing out wide, this pass actually has a purpose. Most of them unfortunately are nothing like this.

Spoiler: Rooney Pass

This is the maestro you're comparing him to. Watch the speed of passing, the accuracy and weight.

Spoiler: Scholes

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

Not to mention that Scholesy played that very same pass on a weekly basis and was lauded for it being a glorious crossfield ball. When Rooney produces the same pass it is mocked as a hollywood pass.

You can see how some people would confuse this "inconsistency" with agendarism (I don't care if that's not a word, it bloody well should be!)

Scholes would have more influence on a game than Rooney even if he never left the centre circle. He had the vision and range of passing to get the ball forward quickly and create chances. Rooney and his lofted, backspin, sideways passes would be more use on a golf course. They don't allow wingers the opportunity of a 1v1 due to the sheer lack of pace on the ball.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

You know the more I think about it i think a lot of the agenda with Rooney is the cafs obsession with money. I'm every player transfer thread all I ever read is "too expensive" this and "bad value" that. Everyone needs to stop giving a damn about the money and leave that to the club accountants, I'm sure they know how much money we can and cannot afford to spend so we don't need to worry about that. Does Rooney earn too much? yeh i reckon so. Do I care? Not abit. Should I care? Absolutely not. And I just don't think the money he makes should affect people's opinions of him.

 

[clarkydaz]

Again, is Roney to be blamed for that or the club? Is he going to be a saint and give up saying there are better players than him out there?

well he's a huge elephant in the room, making his reincarnation very public and even mentioning contract extension. Hopefully the club/management have some bollocks in how they handle it

 

[Minimalist]

Watch how Scholes drilled it to the feet of the winger and watch how Rooney floats it behind the full back and then you'll understand the difference. The weight and flatness of Scholes passes moved the ball on quickly and cut defenders out of the game, Rooneys passing spends so much time in the air it defeats the object of switching it.

This is how Rooney should be passing out wide, this pass actually has a purpose. Most of them unfortunately are nothing like this.

Spoiler: Rooney Pass

This is the maestro you're comparing him to. Watch the speed of passing, the accuracy and weight.

Spoiler: Scholes

Of course the primary reason Scholes could do that was because despite being a stupidly talented player, he was practicing the same mixture of effective passes over and over and over again, season after season.

Apparently Rooney can just buck the natural laws of life and decide he's 'studied Scholes' and now will start 'learning it on the job' - all because it's become clear he's not good enough as a striker anymore for a top side. It's actually insulting to midfield greats that people think he has any right to expect his performances will be anything beyond 'ordinary'. It's got nothing to do with his ability to play in midfield and everything to do with how he can't be depended on as a striker any longer.

 

[Dec9003]

I think people are wary that Rooney now saying he is a midfielder blocks a potential signing

Youd like to think the management team would have more sense than that

 

[kenny19]

You know the more I think about it i think a lot of the agenda with Rooney is the cafs obsession with money. I'm every player transfer thread all I ever read is "too expensive" this and "bad value" that. Everyone needs to stop giving a damn about the money and leave that to the club accountants, I'm sure they know how much money we can and cannot afford to spend so we don't need to worry about that. Does Rooney earn too much? yeh i reckon so. Do I care? Not abit. Should I care? Absolutely not. And I just don't think the money he makes should affect people's opinions of him.

Not only money but his role in the team. I give rooney a lot of stick because I believe he is holding our team back and it makes it worse because he earns so much for being such a liability. If rooney decided to take a step back and be more of a useful player I doubt he would get much stick from the fans.

 

[Art Vandelay]

England has already played 3 games in this Euro.

Who is the best player? Rooney of course!

If you disagree, just state which player has been the best English player so far (in your opinion).


And no, Rashford isn't it! He hasn't played a single minute yet! "What if" doesn't count.

Why do you keep stating your opinion as if it's completely irrefutable and there can be no argument while you yourself have a very distant relationship with reality? You repeatedly claimed Rooney was our all time top scorer while posting links that very clearly stated he wasn't. Now you're claiming Rashford hasn't played when in actual fact he has! It's not even opinions you're getting wrong, it's basic facts.

 

[clarkydaz]

Youd like to think the management team would have more sense than that

hope so, start of the season we got rid of Hernandez and RVP for this guy as our striker

 

[Random Task]

Of feck off. Seriously stop pretending you're a United supporter if you think that's a fair comparison. Scholes did that when it was warranted and 9/10 times it hit the mark perfectly (which isn't the case with Rooney). Scholes had much, much, much superior awareness of the field and was a lot more famous for his short passing and give'n'gos (aside from scoring) than anything else.

Rooney looks for the same pass far too often. It's his go-to. I'm sick of hearing of commentators praising his intelligence on the ball - he demonstrates very little of it.

First off, I never once claimed Rooney played the pass as consistently and with the same amount of quality as that of the great Paul Scholes. I mearly stated that when Rooney plays it, whether successful or not, it is mocked as a pointless hollywood ball.

Get down off your high horse and feck off questioning my support you Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime

 

[Mindhunter]

England has already played 3 games in this Euro.

Who is the best player? Rooney of course!

If you disagree, just state which player has been the best English player so far (in your opinion).


And no, Rashford isn't it! He hasn't played a single minute yet! "What if" doesn't count.

I am more of a Rooney defender here but this doesn't make sense. How is this relevant when we are allowed to buy non English players?

 

[Minimalist]

First off, I never once claimed Rooney played the pass as consistently and with the same amount of quality as that of the great Paul Scholes. I mearly stated that when Rooney plays it, whether successful or not, it is mocked as a pointless hollywood ball.

Get down off your high horse and feck off questioning my support you Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime

I'll stay firmly on my high horse if that's how limited your debating skills are.

 

[JPRouve]

Rooney is our Totti, If we want to keep him in the team, we need to build the best team possible around him while he is playing upfront or as a second striker. This midfield malarkey needs to stop, he isn't good there, as a midfielder he has a poor sense of positioning, a poor sense of movement, a poor sense of rhythm, he barely plays the ball through the middle and that's okay because he isn't a center midfielder.
If you play Rooney upfront, he will use his talent to finish goals, to run at the second post, to sometimes dribble like he did during the FA cup final, that's Rooney and that's the Rooney that we need.

 

[Dec9003]

hope so, start of the season we got rid of Hernandez and RVP for this guy as our striker

In fairness 90% of the posters on here predicted him to get 20/25 goals. I wouldn't have either of them back though we need better.

 

[dichinero]

England has already played 3 games in this Euro.

Who is the best player? Rooney of course!

If you disagree, just state which player has been the best English player so far (in your opinion).


And no, Rashford isn't it! He hasn't played a single minute yet! "What if" doesn't count.

This one is on a roll!

 

[Random Task]

I'll stay firmly on my high horse if that's how limited your debating skills are.

Oh I see, you have an agenda against those people who have an agenda against your agenda towards Wayne Rooney?

Also, what exactly is this debate you and I are having?

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

I am more of a Rooney defender here but this doesn't make sense. How is this relevant when we are allowed to buy non English players?

No idea to be honest. He's wrong too, Dier has been our best player so far, there's a load more players like Lallana who have been better than Rooney too.

 

[Vilev]

Oh christ you're a stat man.

No, i am just not a nonsense one. If a person has argumetns, he have arguments, it can be episodes from game, stat, whatever. Saying something like "Kroos play between lines and Rooney does not, so he is inferior" is simply stupid.

Football isn't tangible, you can't play a game on stats and figures alone mate, however hard you try. Just because there isn't a stat for intelligent passing, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's why scouts are employed and teams don't rely on YouTube and WhoScored when buying players (Bebe says hello). Otherwise Joe Allen would be worth £40mil.

It is. It's just you fail to name those good passes by Kroos. Scouts and the rest, they actually compile a full and detailed reports.

Passing maps tell us feck all other than Rooney only passed it into the box once and had a distinct lack of passes in the final 3rd. Who was the pass to? Did it put us in an advantageous position? How quickly did he move the ball on? Was the player offside he played to? Did the pass create a chance? It tells us none of this.

Did you name and point out at least one such a pass by Kross? Nope.

 

[dichinero]

Rooney is our Totti, If we want to keep him in the team, we need to build the best team possible around him while he is playing upfront or as a second striker. This midfield malarkey needs to stop, he isn't good there, as a midfielder he has a poor sense of positioning, a poor sense of movement, a poor sense of rhythm, he barely plays the ball through the middle and that's okay because he isn't a center midfielder.
If you play Rooney upfront, he will use his talent to finish goals, to run at the second post, to sometimes dribble like he did during the FA cup final, that's Rooney and that's the Rooney that we need.

I'm glad someone brought up Totti. The thing is, it is obvious that Totti has been on a decline as expected. He is still a legend and still at the club for sentimental reasons more than footballing ability. The difference is that he still has to work his way way into the team time and time again, as a regular player. He may never put in the world class performances that we know him for but he plays within his means and he is appreciated because of that. Legend!

It is absurd in my opinion that we take this midfield position so nonchalantly. It is disrespectful that the midfield role is analogous to what the MLS is to the PL. I If I was a midfielder at the club, I'd be pissed that the position that I have been training for, for over a decade is treated as such. Rooney is not the first player to be on a natural decline but he seems to be the only player in world football to reinvent himself in such a manner. I don't know any forwards that have successfully reinvented themselves as midfielder. Del Piero, a forward in his prime who was more technically and tactically proficient than Rooney, with skills more suited for a CM did not convert to a CM but reinvented himself by becoming a different type of forward. You don't just demand to become a CM overnight because you watched Scholes, Lampard, Pirlo or Gerrard; natural midfielders who reinvented themselves to different type of midfielders. What Rooney needs to do is to reinvent himself as a different type of forward they way the likes of Raul, Totti, RvN and even Torres has done rather than jump into a new world because you think you can. If this continues, I hope the like of Pereira to do a Pogba and go and challenge elsewhere.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Rooney is our Totti, If we want to keep him in the team, we need to build the best team possible around him while he is playing upfront or as a second striker. This midfield malarkey needs to stop, he isn't good there, as a midfielder he has a poor sense of positioning, a poor sense of movement, a poor sense of rhythm, he barely plays the ball through the middle and that's okay because he isn't a center midfielder.
If you play Rooney upfront, he will use his talent to finish goals, to run at the second post, to sometimes dribble like he did during the FA cup final, that's Rooney and that's the Rooney that we need.

So would you like him to play lone stiker or as a CF in a front 2?

 

[Vilev]

You are seriously ignorant mate. But never let the facts burst the bubble you are living in.

Don't be stupid. Poland is an average team, no better than Wales. I doubt there are any reasonable fans who disagree with that. Players such as Jedrzejczyk, Maczynski and the rest are you average nobodys.

In 2012 Poland squad was:
Szczesny, Celeban, Wojtkowiak, Lewandowski(the other one) (Klichat), Jedrzejczyk, Glik, Blaszczykowski, Krychowiak, Lewandowski, Mierzejewski (Zielinskiat), Sobota(Peszkoat)

Against Germany it was:
Fabianski, Piszczek, Glik, Pazdan, Jedrzejczyk, Blaszczykowski (Kapustka), Krychowiak,Maczynski (Jodlowiec), Grosicki (Peszko), Milik, Lewandowski

The only quality addition is Milik who looks shite at this Euro. Otherwise it's the same team, almost literally. Subs like Wojtkowiak for Pazdan hardly matter.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Rooney is our Totti, If we want to keep him in the team, we need to build the best team possible around him while he is playing upfront or as a second striker. This midfield malarkey needs to stop, he isn't good there, as a midfielder he has a poor sense of positioning, a poor sense of movement, a poor sense of rhythm, he barely plays the ball through the middle and that's okay because he isn't a center midfielder.
If you play Rooney upfront, he will use his talent to finish goals, to run at the second post, to sometimes dribble like he did during the FA cup final, that's Rooney and that's the Rooney that we need.

Outside of the FA Cup final when did he last make a run like that? When has he last done it consistently?

 

[JPRouve]

So would you like him to play lone stiker or as a CF in a front 2?

It depends on how we build our roster, we need to build the strongest team possible and we are not going to do that by pushing Rooney in midfield. If the manager think that Rooney must start then we need to play him in the position he played during his entire career and we need to support him with the best players we can find.

@dichinero Raul and Totti are in my opinion the best examples, Rooney played in the same position and he is experiencing the same decline like Totti and Raul he will need teammates that will run around him and he will have to adapt his game and turn into a "passer" but it doesn't that he is a midfielder.

@Vilev I apologize for my laziness but your comment about Kroos and Rooney having the same passing map is pure BS, use the little ticks under the map and isolate the long and through balls you will see the difference. I invite everyone to do it with the games against Wales and Poland.

Kroos

Rooney

 

[red4ever 79]

I think the two performances Rooney gave against Russia and Wales were a 7 out of 10 at best. The fact that he was the best English player on the pitch speaks volumes for the quality of the rest of the squad. When I compare Rooney's performance against Russia, to Bale's against the same opposition, it was clear to see which one of those was truly world class.

If we rely on Rooney in midfield next season he will be caught out with the pace of the league and teams will press him faster. Please let us not compare him to Scholes either. Scholes was a once in a life time English midfield talent who was badly mis-used by England management and under valued by everyone outside of Utd.

Heck Rooney the midfield general. He hasnt even been as good as Joe Allen in this tournament who has pleasantly surprised me

 

[Random Task]

I'm glad someone brought up Totti. The thing is, it is obvious that Totti has been on a decline as expected. He is still a legend and still at the club for sentimental reasons more than footballing ability. The difference is that he still has to work his way way into the team time and time again, as a regular player. He may never put in the world class performances that we know him for but he plays within his means and he is appreciated because of that. Legend!

It is absurd in my opinion that we take this midfield position so nonchalantly. It is disrespectful that the midfield role is analogous to what the MLS is to the PL. I If I was a midfielder at the club, I'd be pissed that the position that I have been training for, for over a decade is treated as such. Rooney is not the first player to be on a natural decline but he seems to be the only player in world football to reinvent himself in such a manner. I don't know any forwards that have successfully reinvented themselves as midfielder. Del Piero, a forward in his prime who was more technically and tactically proficient than Rooney, with skills more suited for a CM did not convert to a CM but reinvented himself by becoming a different type of forward. You don't just demand to become a CM overnight because you watched Scholes, Lampard, Pirlo or Gerrard; natural midfielders who reinvented themselves to different type of midfielders. What Rooney needs to do is to reinvent himself as a different type of forward they way the likes of Raul, Totti, RvN and even Torres has done rather than jump into a new world because you think you can. If this continues, I hope the like of Pereira to do a Pogba and go and challenge elsewhere.

That's fair enough.

I believe that Wayne Rooney possess that very rare innate ability to re-invent himself in such a way that he will always remain competitive in whatever position he deems himself worthy of. He will never be world class central midfielder on a level with the likes of Rakitic, Pogba, Iniesta, Modric or whomever, that simply goes without saying, but he is to naturally talented a footballer to so nonchalantly write off his chances of at least becoming a very good one.

Great vision and technique in and around the box, excellent short passing with enough range to spray balls all over the park at will, decent dribbler on his day (admittidly those days are few and far between), composed, intelligent, high stamina, strength galore and aggressive in the tackle. These are all attributes that Wayne Rooney has at his disposal, attributes that any midfielder worth his salt would hope to share. He can also take penalties, corners and free-kicks. The guy literally has an endless supply of positive attributes.

My only issue with his transference from striker to midfielder/playermaker is, perhaps, his lack of conviction. I'm not 100% certain that he believes he can do it, but Fergie believed it, so did LVG. Two top coaches who know their stuff. If Rooney believes in himself enough to make that re-invention then I say let him try it, as I personally am fully confident in his ability.

 

[ivaldo]

No, i am just not a nonsense one. If a person has argumetns, he have arguments, it can be episodes from game, stat, whatever. Saying something like "Kroos play between lines and Rooney does not, so he is inferior" is simply stupid.
It is. It's just you fail to name those good passes by Kroos. Scouts and the rest, they actually compile a full and detailed reports.
Did you name and point out at least one such a pass by Kross? Nope.

You need to Google what tangible means I think, I gave you the benefit of doubt that you meant quantifiable, but hey.

I won't bother responding to the rest, @JPRouve has done a nice job for me.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Rooney is our Totti, If we want to keep him in the team, we need to build the best team possible around him while he is playing upfront or as a second striker. This midfield malarkey needs to stop, he isn't good there, as a midfielder he has a poor sense of positioning, a poor sense of movement, a poor sense of rhythm, he barely plays the ball through the middle and that's okay because he isn't a center midfielder.
If you play Rooney upfront, he will use his talent to finish goals, to run at the second post, to sometimes dribble like he did during the FA cup final, that's Rooney and that's the Rooney that we need.

Yes, yes, and triple yes, this part is spot on, if Rooney stays then it has to be up front, there seems this unstoppable force that just assumes Rooney will be given one of the first choice midfield positions next season, why this is I don't know, the guy is a striker, a striker who has peaked and is now on the way back down the other side, he could still be useful to us as the 2/3 choice striker but that's it, I just hope Jose is allowed to do what he wants with him next season, as if he is I'm sure he won't be rocking up in the midfield.

The other bits I don't agree with obviously, he is second choice striker at best, and no way we should build the team around him.

 

[clarkydaz]

That's fair enough.

I believe that Wayne Rooney possess that very rare innate ability to re-invent himself in such a way that he will always remain competitive in whatever position he deems himself worthy of. He will never be world class central midfielder on a level with the likes of Rakitic, Pogba, Iniesta, Modric or whomever, that simply goes without saying, but he is to naturally talented a footballer to so nonchalantly write off his chances of at least becoming a very good one.

Great vision and technique in and around the box, excellent short passing with enough range to spray balls all over the park at will, decent dribbler on his day (admittidly those days are few and far between), composed, intelligent, high stamina, strength galore and aggressive in the tackle. These are all attributes that Wayne Rooney has at his disposal, attributes that any midfielder worth his salt would hope to share. He can also take penalties, corners and free-kicks. The guy literally has an endless supply of positive attributes.

My only issue with his transference from striker to midfielder/playermaker is, perhaps, his lack of conviction. I'm not 100% certain that he believes he can do it, but Fergie believed it, so did LVG. Two top coaches who know their stuff. If Rooney believes in himself enough to make that re-invention then I say let him try it, as I personally am fully confident in his ability.

I think you are being a bit generous here for the current Rooney. His technique can be great. it can completely desert him. His short passing in tight spaces is one on the big question marks for me, You don't really see him do it. and his famous strength has declined with age. While still good in a tackle he doesn't outmuscle people like years ago

 

[Vilev]

You need to Google what tangible means I think, I gave you the benefit of doubt that you meant quantifiable, but hey.

It's a rather foolish thing to say. You don't even know that "quantifiable" means something you can measure and what i asked for were examples of those passes you claim Kroos made. Thus making argument tangible, which means concrete, real (so proven with actual examples). Your "ideas" about how Rooney and Kroos faired lack exactly that. Any sort of examples. Making them just silly subjective findings.

@Vilev I apologize for my laziness but your comment about Kroos and Rooney having the same passing map is pure BS, use the little ticks under the map and isolate the long and through balls you will see the difference. I invite everyone to do it with the games against Wales and Poland.

The reason for that difference is that Wales were firmly behind the ball, Poland were not that defensive, so Germany had much more space behind the back four, thus Kroos's had more diagonal passes. Poland did gave the ball away, but they were not as packed in their box as Wales was. But the main thing here is that, he only created 2 chances from them, same as Rooney. Then if we look at his passing stats, he made around a 100, and there were like 10-14 long+through, thus it's was 15% at the most, the absolute majority of Krooses passes, so actions in game were completely similar if not identical. As for his long-passes, yes in principle Kroos is better than Rooney, but his passes hardly create anything for his partners. So basically it's a distinction without a difference. Because these elements in game are quite rare in comparison with other passes and because they produced next to nothing difference.

 

[Vilev]

As for Rooney through ball, i encourage people to re-watch the England winning goal and what pass kick-started that attack. It's a proper example of a fine through-ball. between to Wales players from Rooney to Sturridge. Of course it was miles, many moves and minutes before that attack bore any fruit, but it an evidence that Rooney is more than capable of delivering a proper through-ball to create some space for partners.

 

[dichinero]

That's fair enough.

Great vision and technique in and around the box, excellent short passing with enough range to spray balls all over the park at will, decent dribbler on his day (admittidly those days are few and far between), composed, intelligent, high stamina, strength galore and aggressive in the tackle. These are all attributes that Wayne Rooney has at his disposal, attributes that any midfielder worth his salt would hope to share. He can also take penalties, corners and free-kicks. The guy literally has an endless supply of positive attributes.

I agree with these attributes but strongly disagree with the quality. They are not as profound as you suggest, at least not anymore. We need to understand that Rooney is in a serious decline, not because he is just 30 but because his body clock is like a 35 year old. While he may be able to appease come fans with the odd performances, like Gerrard also did, it is not enough to justify him being key to our plans.

That's fair enough.
My only issue with his transference from striker to midfielder/playermaker is, perhaps, his lack of conviction. I'm not 100% certain that he believes he can do it, but Fergie believed it, so did LVG. Two top coaches who know their stuff. If Rooney believes in himself enough to make that re-invention then I say let him try it, as I personally am fully confident in his ability.

Some managers get it wrong. LvG also thought McNair would be our future RB, Fellaini would be an able #9, Lingard a #10, Mata at RW and so on...

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Not to mention that Scholesy played that very same pass on a weekly basis and was lauded for it being a glorious crossfield ball. When Rooney produces the same pass it is mocked as a hollywood pass.

You can see how some people would confuse this "inconsistency" with agendarism (I don't care if that's not a word, it bloody well should be!)

Rooney uses that as a crutch. It's his get out of jail free card. The right back will ALWAYS be open. Nobody man marks a right back, they are invariably in space and will generally have a full back and/or the opposition left midfielder in front of them.

Every now and again he'll play a worldy out wide, but it's insanely rare that he'll be short of time and space, turn right, look up, turn left, look up, look forward, then clip a pass out to the full back. Or pass between lines to play the full back as he runs behind the left back.

The fact that everyone knows he plays this pass ALL THE TIME is evidence enough. He came on against Slovakia. I flicked my mate a text message "Hope Clyne can jump high and has great chest control". Within two minutes Rooney had sprayed one over Clynes head and another wild one he had to chase. It's beyond frustrating.

 

[ivaldo]

It's a rather foolish thing to say. You don't even know that "quantifiable" means something you can measure and what i asked for were examples of those passes you claim Kroos made. Thus making argument tangible, which means concrete, real (so proven with actual examples). Your "ideas" about how Rooney and Kroos faired lack exactly that. Any sort of examples. Making them just silly subjective findings.
The reason for that difference is that Wales were firmly behind the ball, Poland were not that defensive, so Germany had much more space behind the back four, thus Kroos's had more diagonal passes. Poland did gave the ball away, but they were not as packed in their box as Wales was. But the main thing here is that, he only created 2 chances from them, same as Rooney. Then if we look at his passing stats, he made around a 100, and there were like 10-14 long+through, thus it's was 15% at the most, the absolute majority of Krooses passes, so actions in game were completely similar if not identical. As for his long-passes, yes in principle Kroos is better than Rooney, but his passes hardly create anything for his partners. So basically it's a distinction without a difference. Because these elements in game are quite rare in comparison with other passes and because they produced next to nothing difference.

This is painful. You're right, it means something you can measure, like with stats maybe? 


And well done on backtracking, originally you said there was no difference between the two passing charts, and now you're trying to explain the differences with what y oh deemed 'intangible' statements like 'space behind'' and 'packed in the box'. Make your mind up.

 

[clarkydaz]

Rooney uses that as a crutch. It's his get out of jail free card. The right back will ALWAYS be open. Nobody man marks a right back, they are invariably in space and will generally have a full back and/or the opposition left midfielder in front of them.

Every now and again he'll play a worldy out wide, but it's insanely rare that he'll be short of time and space, turn right, look up, turn left, look up, look forward, then clip a pass out to the full back. Or pass between lines to play the full back as he runs behind the left back.

The fact that everyone knows he plays this pass ALL THE TIME is evidence enough. He came on against Slovakia. I flicked my mate a text message "Hope Clyne can jump high and has great chest control". Within two minutes Rooney had sprayed one over Clynes head and another wild one he had to chase. It's beyond frustrating.

must admit i laughed at that pass sailing out of play

 

[Vilev]

This is painful. You're right, it means something you can measure, like with stats maybe?

You just lack understanding. Stats do not only measure or quantify things, they also fixate the facts of the match as well. I was talking about the latter. If i were to talk about "measuring" i would have used normalized version. That is per 90 minute, so you don't have to google what "normalized" means and get it wrong as you did with "tangible".
Once more on a concrete aka tangible example. In maps i presented there is an array of examples, so it's not a quantification but rather a discrete (that means separate, independent just so you know) set of football events. In our cases passes. That is a tangible proof as opposed to people just ignorantly claiming something as you did.

And well done on backtracking, originally you said there was no difference between the two passing charts, and now you're trying to explain the differences with what y oh deemed 'intangible' statements like 'space behind'' and 'packed in the box'. Make your mind up.

As i've said distinction without a difference. You can google it. Not sure about your math skill and your ability to interpret the analogy, but i'll try anyway.
There is no two things that are completely identical. When i was describing their pass maps i certainly did not think that anybody would assume that i was talking bout how every single pass from Rooney and Kroos was identical in place from which it started, speed, success etc. That is impossible. And here is the same thing. Does it mean that possibly of such an occurrence, an identical match for Rooney and Kroos is nill, zero? No. It can't be nill, since it can happen in principle, but we understand that it is something like 0,0..(many zeroes here)..01%, so we can safely assume (or neglect this small amount) that will never happen and just call it "impossible". Same principle with with Kroos and Rooney, in their cases the amount is a bit higher of course, but not as high to actually matter. If Krooses passe were slightly, like 10 degrees more, "forward'y", yet not one of them actually created a chance or resulted in any significant actions, that hardly matters.

 

[psychdelicblues]

That's fair enough.

I believe that Wayne Rooney possess that very rare innate ability to re-invent himself in such a way that he will always remain competitive in whatever position he deems himself worthy of. He will never be world class central midfielder on a level with the likes of Rakitic, Pogba, Iniesta, Modric or whomever, that simply goes without saying, but he is to naturally talented a footballer to so nonchalantly write off his chances of at least becoming a very good one.

Great vision and technique in and around the box, excellent short passing with enough range to spray balls all over the park at will, decent dribbler on his day (admittidly those days are few and far between), composed, intelligent, high stamina, strength galore and aggressive in the tackle. These are all attributes that Wayne Rooney has at his disposal, attributes that any midfielder worth his salt would hope to share. He can also take penalties, corners and free-kicks. The guy literally has an endless supply of positive attributes.

My only issue with his transference from striker to midfielder/playermaker is, perhaps, his lack of conviction. I'm not 100% certain that he believes he can do it, but Fergie believed it, so did LVG. Two top coaches who know their stuff. If Rooney believes in himself enough to make that re-invention then I say let him try it, as I personally am fully confident in his ability.

No white text?

 

[SteveJ]

I believe there's been a real problem with entitlement & England regulars over the years, and this entitlement/arrogance carries over to their club-life. Here's the latest chapter; oh, and please don't waste my time by telling me that it's all just the fantasy of a journalist:

Wayne Rooney is also understood to be aggrieved at Hodgson’s decision to leave him out, and at the calculated gamble of breaking up the side that played so impressively in the second half of the 2-1 win against Wales. Rooney had expected to play and Hodgson’s decision to rest his captain is one of the issues that has troubled the people who will decide at the end of the tournament whether England’s manager warrants a new contract.

Players like Rooney, Gerrard, Terry etc practically never blame or examine themselves when things go awry. This time 'round, it's Hodgson instead of LVG, Benitez or Capello being thrown under the bus. You'd hope that England's - and United's - chiefs would eventually get wise to this kind of thing, but don't hold your breath.

 

[nick2004]

I believe there's been a real problem with entitlement & England regulars over the years, and this entitlement/arrogance carries over to their club-life. Here's the latest chapter; oh, and please don't waste my time by telling me that it's all just the fantasy of a journalist:



Players like Rooney, Gerrard, Terry etc practically never blame or examine themselves when things go awry. This time 'round, it's Hodgson instead of LVG, Benitez or Capello being thrown under the bus. You'd hope that England's - and United's - chiefs would eventually get wise to this kind of thing, but don't hold your breath.

Your opinion is wrong. On multiple grounds.

First, people who do not "examine themselves" cannot really get to the top of their professions, no matter how much talent they happen to have. To improve, you have to work hard on your weaknesses. Without hard work, talent means nothing.

Second, Rooney has been the best English player in Euro 2016. Omitting him was a stupid blunder. Now England has finished below Wales (!!!) and it will have to face harder opponents.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Second, Rooney has been the best English player in Euro 2016. Omitting him was a stupid blunder. Now England has finished below Wales (!!!) and it will have to face harder opponents.

Walker, Cahill, Smalling, Dier, Lallana have been better. Hands down.

- Clyne played at a higher lever for the 90 that he played.
- Sturridge has contributed more in his 1.5 games.

I could justify his inclusion as a wide forward in our next game. Sterling looks devoid of all confidence, Rashford is still too raw to start knockout matches, and he'll play better out there than Sturridge, Vardy or Milner.

Get midfielders playing in midfield, we'll be a better team for it.

 

[Pexbo]

Your opinion is wrong. On multiple grounds.

First, people who do not "examine themselves" cannot really get to the top of their professions, no matter how much talent they happen to have. To improve, you have to work hard on your weaknesses. Without hard work, talent means nothing.

Second, Rooney has been the best English player in Euro 2016. Omitting him was a stupid blunder. Now England has finished below Wales (!!!) and it will have to face harder opponents.

It's been a long time since any of those players have worked on their weaknesses and improved. Nobody is saying they didn't do it once upon a time but those days are long gone. We're left with a shell of the player we had who apparently thinks he can do no wrong. It's poisonous.