Wayne Rooney - Manchester United Legend

Do you consider Rooney to be a United legend?

  • Total voters
    1,610
stevoc said:
I think you misunderstood my post mate, i'm not saying Rooney is a legend on the scale of Charlton. In fact i'm not talking about any of the legend stuff at all.

I'm only referring to your theory of Rooney's stat-padding, yes Rooney broke the record by scoring less goals than at his peak over a few seasons of decline. But then Charlton set the record in similar circumstances in the first place.

So with that in mind i don't think it's fair to say he didn't deserve the record or shouldn't have had the opportunity to break it. If Charlton had set the record in his prime with a barnstorming 30-40 goal season then a case could be made for a deserving successor needing to do the same, but it just wasn't the case.
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Understand your point, read my latest post - hopefully explains why I am critical of Rooney 'stat-padding' whereas I don't criticize Charlton over it. Should be more clear. Apologies if any confusion caused earlier.

In simple terms Charlton's greatness is that self-evident, the stats are just a side dish whereas Rooney is heavily reliant on those stats embellishing his claims for greatness.

Charlton could have half the goals and appearances, it would make no difference to how people rated him as a player. With Rooney he never quite justified the hype of what he should have become, therefore it was necessary for him to stat-pad to be talked about as one of the greats, which for some in this thread, he has successfully managed to convince (ie. some posters were saying he is up there with Best, Law, Charlton).
 
I came back to this several times before voting. I'm pretty split. On one hand 13 years and 19 trophies = legend, end of discussion. On the other, he's a Scouser (albeit a Blue one which is less of a sin :p ), and that will never quite sit right. Only Stevie Coppell was ever allowed that (imho)

btw - I dont have a problem with Scousers as such, the banter is great etc, I'd just prefer them not to play for my club, in the same way they wouldnt want any Manc's playing for theirs, its just not right
 
Raees said:
I never said that.
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What you said was...
I can't recall any legend in the game, manipulating and succeeding in doing so.. prolonging their career at a club or for their country to such a Machiavellian extent to the point their teams fortunes are suffering greatly, just to indulge the whims of one player. Even Gerrard at Liverpool was told where to go once they realised his legs had gone, and there was us and England indulging Rooney to a ridiculous degree, just to ensure he undeservedly broke records for club and country.
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If you strip back the hyperbole and rhetoric what you're essentially saying is legends don't prolong their career, outstay their welcome and participate in the decline of their clubs. The truth is that there a whole host of legends that did that. Part of the reason they did it is because they had political power, part of it is because they couldn't wean them off the drug that is fame and success, and part of it is because the club showed them loyalty to pay them back for their contribution. Regardless of whether Rooney is comparable to Charlton, what you've said is just plain wrong and symptomatic of the kind of silliness in this thread. If people take a step back and look at the club's history, football history or any number of different perspectives then they'll see their arguments are deeply flawed.
 
Raees said:
Understand your point, read my latest post - hopefully explains why I am critical of Rooney 'stat=padding' whereas I don't criticize Charlton over it. Should be more clear. Apologies if any confusion caused earlier.
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No worries mate. I have read your post but to be honest setting all the legend talk aside, i still think it's a stretch to downplay Rooney's scoring record because of 'stat-padding' when Charlton set the record by doing the same.
 
Nori- said:
Not twisting anything, the issue of "Is Rooney a United Legend" is in almost every Newspaper/Sports website. Rio couldn't have missed it. Especially considering he is now working in the Media and needs to be on top of what is going on.

Considering all that why would he not make a point of backing his friend and saying he is a United legend? Why use the term football legend? He is a smart man and often talks a lot of sense, and this is just another example of that. I think its more a case of you really want Rooney to be a United legend and will ignore or disregard even the most obvious things to make yourself feel better :wenger:
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Whatever helps you sleep at night mate.

You think Best, Law and Charlton aren't United legends, and think Dalglish isn't a Liverpool legend so your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.
 
Alex99 said:
Whatever helps you sleep at night mate.

You think Best, Law and Charlton aren't United legends, and think Dalglish isn't a Liverpool legend so your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.
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I sleep great at night thanks, like I did last night, but this was obviously still bothering you. :s

You think throwing around names like Charlton and Pele magically makes everything true? That approach appeals to sheep, people who hear a name and just nod at anything said, not actually questioning what they are nodding at. Legend status is reserved for special people, "Icons" or "Greats" have there own level and its below the pinnacle of one club players.
 
stevoc said:
No worries mate. I have read your post but to be honest setting all the legend talk aside, i still think it's a stretch to downplay Rooney's scoring record because of 'stat-padding' when Charlton set the record by doing the same.
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Charlton played as a midfielder that absolutely has to be taken into account. His numbers stat-padded or not, for a guy who was pretty much operating in centre midfield/attacking midfield is incredible.

Rooney was a SS/number 9/9.5 so for him to hit great numbers isn't a surprise, in fact based on his talent level and the fact he was playing as a first team forward since 18, it shouldn't have been that much of a surprise.

Brwned said:
What you said was...

If you strip back the hyperbole and rhetoric what you're essentially saying is legends don't prolong their career, outstay their welcome and participate in the decline of their clubs. The truth is that there a whole host of legends that did that. Part of the reason they did it is because they had political power, part of it is because they couldn't wean them off the drug that is fame and success, and part of it is because the club showed them loyalty to pay them back for their contribution. Regardless of whether Rooney is comparable to Charlton, what you've said is just plain wrong and symptomatic of the kind of silliness in this thread. If people take a step back and look at the club's history, football history or any number of different perspectives then they'll see their arguments are deeply flawed.
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Well no, of course Rooney isn't alone on this front, I am sure many legends if indulged would end up doing the same, and I am sure someone like Ronaldo at Madrid would end up doing the same if given free reign, or Messi at Barca.. but in general, even the all time greats, are usually prevented from taking it too far. Maybe one or two seasons past their peak, over the hill ala Ronaldinho from 06-08).. but it is very rare to see a player dominate the landscape at a club which isn't even his home side (like Totti at Roma) and at a club with such a ferocious appetite for success, managing to worm his way into staying at a club for 5 years past his peak and no doubt not living the right lifestyle of a professional footballer.

Also just as rare to see the national team of a big nation so manipulated by one star clearly past their prime and clearly more of a hindrance than an asset. It was almost like a mafia 'Godfather' like plot to ensure Wayne Rooney ensures elite level legendary status, so that all vested parties could get a return on their investment.

Would be happy to referred to comparable examples.
 
Brwned said:
There's two points here worth discussing.

The first is that Charlton had a more "natural" decline. Absolutely true. The flipside of that is he had a much more "natural" introduction to professional football, which means he was less important and less effective player than Rooney when he first began. What does it matter when they peaked and when they declined? It's just a number. Rooney was better as a youngster, Charlton better as an experienced old head, all of that time should be grouped together as outside of their peak, and none of the time outside of their peak could be consisdered terrible.

The reality is they were at their peak for roughly the same period of time and outside of their peak, all things considered, performed at a relatively similar level. Charlton was named as one of the top 10 players in Europe at in 1963 at the age of 25 and remained there in 4 of the next 5 seasons. Rooney entered the top 10 at the age of 18 but reached his highest point in the rankings in 2011 at the age of 25.

The other is that you think the team has a limited impact on individual players' performances. That's a ridiculous assertion which is so easily disproven it's not even worth talking about.

If you really can't see the parallels between Rooney and Charlton then it's simply because you don't want to see them, either because it ruins your perspective of Charlton or it rejects your perspective of Rooney. The reality is the two are mutually inclusive. Either you believe Charlton was terrible in his final years and deserves to be blamed for our decline as a club, or you believe Rooney shouldn't and we should instead celebrate the much more important part of his career. You can't have both though. The internal logic doesn't work.
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My main question is, so what? Do you want people to say 'You have opened my eyes - Bobby Charlton must have been terrible too', or 'Actually, I revise my opinion - in spite of what I have seen with my own eyes to the contrary I now don't think Rooney has been terrible for the final third of his career'? (BTW, terrible wasn't a word used by me and I personally wouldn't go that far in describing Rooney's form over the past few years). What is it that you are trying to prove?

Aside from all of that - unless you've watched both of their careers (maybe you have - in which case, fair play old-timer ;-)) then really when it comes to Bobby C you're just going on documentary evidence rather than something that you have actually seen, which again makes it a strange comparison imho.

With regard to your final paragraph - no, the two things are only mutually inclusive in your head, you have just conflated them for the sake of trying to prove a fairly flaky point.
 
Raees said:
I never said that. I said Rooney is undoubtedly a legend for his contribution from 2006-2011 (his prime years, which is the basis upon which I will bestow legendary status on him) and that cannot be disagreed with.

My argument was that he then stat padded, and that his end career numbers were undeserved for club and country. If it was a case of managers just being stupid and selecting him fair enough, but there was clear evidence that he was very Machiavellian behind the scenes in order to preserve the status quo. The reason why I was vocal about this particular point is that without these record statistics he would not be anywhere near the conversation of who are the greatest United legends of all time or top ten legends of the club.

Now people of pointed out that Charlton and Best overstayed their welcome which is a fair point, however even if they had both left say in 1969.. they had done enough by that point to be recognised as the greatest United and British footballers of all time, they were reference points for British football as there has never been a decade in which Britain conquered world football in the same way (3 Ballon D'or winners from British isles, 2 CL successes, a world cup win etc).

So the fact that they might have 'stat-padded' was besides the point as they were already greatest of all time calibre footballers, whereas Rooney without stat-padding would be completely excluded from the debate. So there is a reason why I am bringing it up in relation to Rooney and excluding it from any critique of Charlton.

Even someone like Pele and Romario 'stat-padded' to hit 1000+ goals, but they have ridiculously amazing careers to fall back on if anyone was going to criticise their pedigree. Rooney wasn't Charlton/Best/Law level during his career peak with us. That is a fact.
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Basically what @Brwned said regarding the first para. I had initially included the quotes but felt they weren't required.

As for your stat padding, you talk as if all he was interested in was scoring goals and didn't have united's interests in mind which couldn't be more wrong. Even in the lean years under moyes and lvg's first season, he was the only player who was playing with his all. You say Rooney if he hadn't been club's top scorer he wouldn't be a legend. The point is he did get it and that's because of his talent. If he had left us in 2013, he would be thought of much better than now. If ronaldo hadn't been Madrid's top scorer he may not have been their legend. The point is he is a RM legend.

If his interest was to score goals and get the scoring record, why would he be willing to drop to midfield to accomodate the likes of di Maria and falcao? To get the appearance record?
 
Nori- said:
I sleep great at night thanks, like I did last night, but this was obviously still bothering you. :s

You think throwing around names like Charlton and Pele magically makes everything true? That approach appeals to sheep, people who hear a name and just nod at anything said, not actually questioning what they are nodding at. Legend status is reserved for special people, "Icons" or "Greats" have there own level and its below the pinnacle of one club players.
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So by your way of thinking, giggs Neville and scholes are legends but Charlton, best, law are just icons or greats
 
Stat padding.. I've never heard such nonsense.

Every single player that has played with Rooney will tell you what a team player he is first and foremost. The lad would literally play any position just to play football
 
stevoc said:
In your opinion what was it that he did that crossed the line.
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Threatening to leave to City (at a time when it actually mattered), questioning the ambitions of the club in the press (indirectly saying he didnt think much of his team mates!) etc. Like I said, it was unprecedented for Fergie to do a press conference like that - nothing like that had ever happened before or since under Fergie.

Rooney himself knew he crossed a line, its well known that he apologised to his team mates after that sorry saga.

The fact that he then created issues again just a few years later made it even worse of course.
 
Stat padding.

Just when you think you've seen rock bottom on here :lol:



golden_blunder said:
So by your way of thinking, giggs Neville and scholes are legends but Charlton, best, law are just icons or greats
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Why are you talking to a wum? If his post on Rio's twitter comment was real, he'd forget to breathe. Though I must admit, I have been enjoying his posts as for once someone like him has a bit of creativity :)
 
prath92 said:
Basically what @Brwned said regarding the first para. I had initially included the quotes but felt they weren't required.

As for your stat padding, you talk as if all he was interested in was scoring goals and didn't have united's interests in mind which couldn't be more wrong. Even in the lean years under moyes and lvg's first season, he was the only player who was playing with his all. You say Rooney if he hadn't been club's top scorer he wouldn't be a legend. The point is he did get it and that's because of his talent. If he had left us in 2013, he would be thought of much better than now. If ronaldo hadn't been Madrid's top scorer he may not have been their legend. The point is he is a RM legend.

If his interest was to score goals and get the scoring record, why would he be willing to drop to midfield to accomodate the likes of di Maria and falcao? To get the appearance record?
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If he had United's interest in mind, he'd have accepted being a squad player when it was clear he didn't quite have the legs anymore.

He only dropped into midfield when he realised if he pushed for a place up front, he'd be exposed as to how far he had fallen from grace, which is why Mourinho cornered him on arriving here, forcing him to play in attacking positions and exposing him as 'finished'.

Again that part in bold, incorrect and misrepresenting what I said. I said based on his career with us to 2011, he had done more than enough for me, to be classified as a club legend. Nevertheless, he would for me be on a par with say the lesser legends of the club, but still a legend for being a key component of one of the most successful era's of the club.

My issue was with those taking the 'legend' claim too far, by stating he deserves to be remembered amongst the very best ever to wear the United shirt. I hope the explains why I am bringing up the stat-padding stuff in the first place.

If the argument is only about whether or not he's a legend.. I have already said, top scorer or not, he objectively speaking does deserve legend status for his contributions on the pitch for club.

As for country, one good tournament at 18 probably helps scrape him into legend status in english football circles, but again he wouldn't make my top 10 for english national team.
 
Btw the official united website states Sir Bobby Charlton as a forward rather than a midfielder.(http://www.manutd.com/en/History/Legends/Sir-Bobby-Charlton.aspx)

He also wore the #9 for club and country quite often at a time when your number was dictated by the position you played. I think he played as an Attacking midfielder in the lampard mould (I think there was a poster who even likened the two in terms of positions they played). He also may have played CM a few times but he was more often than not an AM, which was effectively what Rooney was who played behind the main striker in all but 3 of his united seasons. I don't think the 'difference in positions' is such a big Thing to take into account.
 
Nori- said:
I sleep great at night thanks, like I did last night, but this was obviously still bothering you. :s

You think throwing around names like Charlton and Pele magically makes everything true? That approach appeals to sheep, people who hear a name and just nod at anything said, not actually questioning what they are nodding at. Legend status is reserved for special people, "Icons" or "Greats" have there own level and its below the pinnacle of one club players.
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You're a broken record.

"Ooh sheep"
 
golden_blunder said:
So by your way of thinking, giggs Neville and scholes are legends but Charlton, best, law are just icons or greats
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"Legend status is reserved for special people, "Icons" or "Greats" have there own level and its below the pinnacle of one club players."

You are asking me to re-confirm something I have just made clear?
 
Nori- said:
"Legend status is reserved for special people, "Icons" or "Greats" have there own level and its below the pinnacle of one club players."

You are asking me to re-confirm something I have just made clear?
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So Gary Neville is a legend and George best is an icon/great?
 
Redlambs said:
Come on man, that's wum 101.

It's like the conspiracy theories stuff, there's certain buzz words guaranteed to trigger people. As much as I love stuff like this, and Nori-'s posts in here, it's time to move on.
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Are you calling me or him a wum?
 
Nori- said:
I'm only as much of a broken record as the people who keep insisting my opinion is wrong


Wow, this is really going over your head. Asking me to reconfirm something I've just re-confirmed.
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You've never confirmed it.

Is George Best a United legend?

Is Gary Neville a United legend?
 
Mockney said:
Well this is what I mean by shifting subjective criteria. One minute alleged disloyalty and ill discipline can override a decades worth of exceptional service and being our record goalscorer, and another it's fine as long as you've won a French magazine award. Paul Scholes never won a single major personal accolade, but that's because he was patently under appreciated and awards like that are all stupid.. Apart from when our players win them, when they suddenly become inarguably objective measures of their quality.

I'm fine with you not personally thinking Rooney a legend, knock yourself out mate (as I said in an earlier post, you're basically just shouting at the sea, so go for it) but I'm surprised that you're so surprised most people accept it. He quite clearly ticks every conceivable box that any club could potentially judge such a thing by. His black marks are more a product of living in an age where every mistake a player makes is instantly public and indelible, hence my comparison with Best, whose indiscretions have been largely forgotten by posterity, if they were ever even a popular issue at all. And while I'm not trying to claim he's on a par with Georgie at all, Wayne has technically done everything he did, if not more. Scored in a CL Final, 2 League Cup finals, been MOTM in an FA Cup final and scored a league winning goal to boot. None of which would even rank amongst his top 5 moments for the club, which in itself should surely signify a career of some merit?

But I know I'm not gonna change your mind, and that's fine, because he will be considered a legend whether you like it or not. But that shouldn't be a surprise is all. It was always inevitable. The only mild surprise is how quickly it's happened.
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I dont want to argue about Best/Rooney because neither of us were around to see Best play (or experience first hand the off field issues) so its not based on firsthand knowledge. I do think you go a bit far in downplaying the Ballon D'or thing though and Im not even a big fan of awards like that myself!

Anyway I am not actually suprised that most think Rooney is a legend, the top goalscorer thing alone means he's going to get a lot of support in that discussion - but I am surprised at the gap in voting on here. But then these things can change quickly with the fickle nature of fans.
I reckon it would have been a very different result if the same question had been asked this time last year plus Im certain it would be a pretty different result on other United forums.

and what exactly is a 'legend' anyway? Its like the whole debate about who is 'world class' - everyone will have their own criteria and there are obviously many different factors to take into account and its a personal decision about how much weight you give to each factor. You seem to focus just on the football, which I can understand, but for me it goes further than that.

It will be interesting to see what history does for Rooney's status as a legend amongst our fans - because that keeps evolving even after leaving and I can think of several examples of players who were considered legends when they left but maybe things they have said or done after has changed that status for some (eg Keane, Hughes etc).
For example, right now there is a vote going on amongst J Standers about which United players should feature on a mural that will go up in the concourse at Old Trafford, various players from different decades have been put forward and I think 10 are eventually going to be chosen - current players are not being considered so Rooney is not an option but I wonder in 10/15/20 years time how much support he will get in something like that. We shall see and hopefully I'll still be here to tell all the know nothing kids that he was a trecherous scouse bastard and certainly not a club legend :D
 
Raees said:
Charlton played as a midfielder that absolutely has to be taken into account. His numbers stat-padded or not, for a guy who was pretty much operating in centre midfield/attacking midfield is incredible.

Rooney was a SS/number 9/9.5 so for him to hit great numbers isn't a surprise, in fact based on his talent level and the fact he was playing as a first team forward since 18, it shouldn't have been that much of a surprise.
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It seems a bit like you are moving the goal posts to support your own theory here mate. Yes Charlton was an attacking midfielder yes the numbers of goals he scored was impressive, but the positions he occupied were not that different to the position Rooney's played for the majority of his United career. No10 or second striker.

Having said all that playing position is irrelevant to whats actually being discussed. You can't belittle Rooney's scoring record by saying he only got it from 'stat-padding' when Charlton originally set the record in very similar circumstances.
 
Rood said:
Threatening to leave to City (at a time when it actually mattered), questioning the ambitions of the club in the press (indirectly saying he didnt think much of his team mates!) etc. Like I said, it was unprecedented for Fergie to do a press conference like that - nothing like that had ever happened before or since under Fergie.

Rooney himself knew he crossed a line, its well known that he apologised to his team mates after that sorry saga.
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You seem to have put the cart before the horse though mate. Yes the statement he released was poor but that came after Fergusons press conference not before, the event that kicked the whole episode off was Ferguson publicly announcing that Rooney wanted to leave. And he didn't call a special press conference just to announce the Rooney news, it was a scheduled CL presser before our CL match that week.

As for the ''threatening to leave to City'' jesus that really has became fact for many when there isn't a scrap of evidence it was ever remotely close to being true. Everyone involved including the then Man City manager has denied it or at the very least in the case of Ferguson never even gave it any credibility. And yet still people believe it.

The fact that he then created issues again just a few years later made it even worse of course.
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He wanted to leave, he asked to do so in private and just like the first time Ferguson chose for whatever reason to make it public.

It really is amazing to me that over the years many people have formed the view that everything that happened in 2010 & 2013 was instigated by Rooney himself.
 
Rood said:
I dont want to argue about Best/Rooney because neither of us were around to see Best play (or experience first hand the off field issues) so its not based on firsthand knowledge. I do think you go a bit far in downplaying the Ballon D'or thing though and Im not even a big fan of awards like that myself!

Anyway I am not actually suprised that most think Rooney is a legend, the top goalscorer thing alone means he's going to get a lot of support in that discussion - but I am surprised at the gap in voting on here. But then these things can change quickly with the fickle nature of fans.
I reckon it would have been a very different result if the same question had been asked this time last year plus Im certain it would be a pretty different result on other United forums.

and what exactly is a 'legend' anyway? Its like the whole debate about who is 'world class' - everyone will have their own criteria and there are obviously many different factors to take into account and its a personal decision about how much weight you give to each factor. You seem to focus just on the football, which I can understand, but for me it goes further than that.

It will be interesting to see what history does for Rooney's status as a legend amongst our fans - because that keeps evolving even after leaving and I can think of several examples of players who were considered legends when they left but maybe things they have said or done after has changed that status for some (eg Keane, Hughes etc).
For example, right now there is a vote going on amongst J Standers about which United players should feature on a mural that will go up in the concourse at Old Trafford, various players from different decades have been put forward and I think 10 are eventually going to be chosen - current players are not being considered so Rooney is not an option but I wonder in 10/15/20 years time how much support he will get in something like that. We shall see and hopefully I'll still be here to tell all the know nothing kids that he was a trecherous scouse bastard and certainly not a club legend :D
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Ahhh, that old chestnut.

Maybe times move on. We all find ourselves on the receiving end of the good old time bitchslap, myself included when it comes to video games :lol: But let's not feck about here, if you are talking about 'top red' kind of guys then they need to move on because as much of a scouse prick he is, Rooney did give his all for us for a long time and kept us going for long periods replacing the Keane role. If anything, he burnt himself out giving his all for United. For me it's about the guys who were our heartbeat for an era, and Rooney was that for us. He kept us going through a shit spell and was a major part of us coming back to glory.

As critical as I am of this place from time to time, of the new idiot kids who can't see past the end of their noses and this dumb arse social media era, the poll is correct here. Rooney deserves to be a legend.
 
Raees said:
If he had United's interest in mind, he'd have accepted being a squad player when it was clear he didn't quite have the legs anymore.

He only dropped into midfield when he realised if he pushed for a place up front, he'd be exposed as to how far he had fallen from grace, which is why Mourinho cornered him on arriving here, forcing him to play in attacking positions and exposing him as 'finished'.

Again that part in bold, incorrect and misrepresenting what I said. I said based on his career with us to 2011, he had done more than enough for me, to be classified as a club legend. Nevertheless, he would for me be on a par with say the lesser legends of the club, but still a legend for being a key component of one of the most successful era's of the club.

My issue was with those taking the 'legend' claim too far, by stating he deserves to be remembered amongst the very best ever to wear the United shirt. I hope the explains why I am bringing up the stat-padding stuff in the first place.

If the argument is only about whether or not he's a legend.. I have already said, top scorer or not, he objectively speaking does deserve legend status for his contributions on the pitch for club.
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The truth is that he should not have been at United post 2012/13 and likewise for england should have been dropped by Euro 2012. Therefore he never should have had the opportunity to slowly drag his way to club and country scoring records, whereas the likes of Ronaldo/Messi were smashing records in their prime and didn't just hang around trying to break records despite being way off the pace and not deserving of a first team spot. He used his media presence and tried to manipulate the management of both club and country to try and secure his 'legend' status and to be fair, that is a very rare thing to see at any stage in the history of football.
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So which is it? Here you make it seem as if the only reason he was interested in staying post 2013 was to break the scoring record yet he was more than willing to drop into midfield when that was asked of him? That seems to be contradictory in itself. Him playing in midfield to continue playing is surely understandable? Any footballer would try to prolong their career in a club by playing in other positions? Even someone like Alan smith played as a CM to get into the team.

Plus he did accept a squad role? If anything, he has always accepted a supporting role. Last year, I don't remember him making a big deal of being in the squad as a sub most of the time.
 
@stevoc I cant really be arsed to go over stuff from years ago, its all been discussed ad nauseum before

But of course it was all instigated by Rooney (or more likely his advisors) - why do you think he needed to apologise to his team mates?
 
stevoc said:
It seems a bit like you are moving the goal posts to support your own theory here mate. Yes Charlton was an attacking midfielder yes the numbers of goals he scored was impressive, but the positions he occupied were not that different to the position Rooney's played for the majority of his United career. No10 or second striker.

Having said all that playing position is irrelevant to whats actually being discussed. You can't belittle Rooney's scoring record by saying he only got it from 'stat-padding' when Charlton originally set the record in very similar circumstances.
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Charlton's positioning on a pitch was very different to Rooney.

Without getting all football manager, one was very much positioned in the final third, as a number 10, 9.5, Support striker whereas Charlton was a proper midfield playmaker who operated near the centre circle as well as roaming into the final third.

Imagine playing Charlton as a centre-forward, forget the 9 on his shirt, playing him as an out and out striker, it just doesn't make sense.

Anyway I've said enough on this issue. Bottom line is, he is a legend, just not that great a legend as some wish to make out.
 
Redlambs said:
Ahhh, that old chestnut.

Maybe times move on. We all find ourselves on the receiving end of the good old time bitchslap, myself included when it comes to video games :lol: But let's not feck about here, if you are talking about 'top red' kind of guys then they need to move on because as much of a scouse prick he is, Rooney did give his all for us for a long time and kept us going for long periods replacing the Keane role. If anything, he burnt himself out giving his all for United. For me it's about the guys who were our heartbeat for an era, and Rooney was that for us. He kept us going through a shit spell and was a major part of us coming back to glory.

As critical as I am of this place from time to time, of the new idiot kids who can't see past the end of their noses and this dumb arse social media era, the poll is correct here. Rooney deserves to be a legend.
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I dont really consider myself a 'top red' kind of guy and I really didnt want to have that kind of discussion, I was just noting that the results of such polls can change quite quickly and might be different elsewhere

Like I said, Im not surprised at all at the result of the poll on here and I didnt make any negative comment about here either!
 
Rood said:
@stevoc I cant really be arsed to go over stuff from years ago, its all been discussed ad nauseum before

But of course it was all instigated by Rooney (or more likely his advisors) - why do you think he needed to apologise to his team mates?
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He apologized to his teammates for indirectly disparaging the quality of the squad in the statement he released did he not? No ones denying he released a statement questioning the clubs ambition.

Also i wouldn't have put it past Rooney's agent or his advisors to have stirred some shit in the media, but it's a fact that Ferguson broke the news not Rooney, many people seem to have come to thinking that Rooney woke up one morning and decided to tell the world he wants to leave United in a public statement. And no one can provide a scrap of evidence there was anything in the City links beyond a throwaway line by a journalist in an article with the old ''has told teammates he would be willing to go to City''. And yet people still believe it as fact that Rooney wanted to go to City or at least ''threatened'' to.

I've said it before i am convinced a lot of the resentment towards Rooney is based on tabloid nonsense and ignorance of what actually happened during his contract sagas.
 
Raees said:
Charlton's positioning on a pitch was very different to Rooney.

Without getting all football manager, one was very much positioned in the final third, as a number 10, 9.5, Support striker whereas Charlton was a proper midfield playmaker who operated near the centre circle as well as roaming into the final third.

Imagine playing Charlton as a centre-forward, forget the 9 on his shirt, playing him as an out and out striker, it just doesn't make sense.

Anyway I've said enough on this issue. Bottom line is, he is a legend, just not that great a legend as some wish to make out.
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Look mate i understand what you are saying with the whole positioning thing can't say i agree completely but it is irrelevant to the scoring record point you were making about ''stat-padding''. I'm not making any claims about who was or wasn't the bigger legend.

Just seems to me you are constantly looking for another angle to diminish Rooney's goal scoring record here for some reason. First it was because of stat-padding, then when it's pointed out that Charlton set the record in similar circumstances now you are focusing on playing positions.

Can you not just accept that Rooney is Man Utd's all time top scorer and that he deserves it, just as Charlton did before him?
 
Unfortunately bar an Instagram message which his PR team probably put up Rooney throughout his exit has once again shown why many don't think of him as a legend

Hardly a passing mention to the United fans, once again alienating himself from the fan base
 
Raees said:
Charlton's positioning on a pitch was very different to Rooney.
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Yes and it took Rooney 200 fewer matches to achieve the goal tally, which deserves an acknowledgement if you are trying to make a comparison.
 
He's a legend. I think the majority of bods on here will look upon him more favourably in a couple of years time when we take into account everything he achieved with us.
 
He's not exactly speaking like someone who loves the club.
 
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