Wow.
Wayne Rooney - Manchester United Legend
- Thread starter VP89
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This absolutely made me cry a bit.
I am very mean when it comes to the word legend. Rooney was magnificent for us, cannot abide the stick he got from some here. But I'm not even sure Keano was a legend...
He's quite clearly a United legend. All time record goal scorer, all time record European goal scorer. Won everything there is to win, and stayed with the club for over a decade (from teenager to 30+).
It's beyond mental to try and claim he isn't a United legend. Why? Contract negotiations? Most players do or have done that, many whom we class as legends without thinking (Keane for example). As the agent becomes more important as time goes on, Rooney's contract situation will seem quaint in retrospect.
It's beyond mental to try and claim he isn't a United legend. Why? Contract negotiations? Most players do or have done that, many whom we class as legends without thinking (Keane for example). As the agent becomes more important as time goes on, Rooney's contract situation will seem quaint in retrospect.
Anyone who thinks he's not a legend is basing their views on emotion (i.e. the infamous contract dispute of 2010). I feel that some fans have not truly forgiven him for that.
The question I have is whether he will eventually get a statue, he has the credentials to warrant one outside OT.
The question I have is whether he will eventually get a statue, he has the credentials to warrant one outside OT.
To be honest it's sad to see how some fans are still so bitter about Rooney. I know they are in the minority and the majority of us will remember him for the great player he was but if you can't even appreciate your clubs all time leading scorer I feel sad for you.
He has done great things for us and he will always be remembered as a legend but there is that sour taste that with his talent he should have achieved even greater things.
If I'm able to help provide some context for people to see Rooney in a more positive light then I think that's of benefit to the group and the individuals. That's all.
When it comes to Charlton we're talking about facts. It's a fact that he was significant part of United's decline, much like Rooney. It's a fact that he scored very few goals in the final stage of his career to build that record, much like Rooney. It's a fairly obvious interpretation, supported a load of video and written evidence, that Charlton's decline was exacerbated by a declining team around him, much like Rooney. So I'm not sure why you keep trying to come back to that.
I've only seen a limited amount of Charlton* but what I can say with a great deal of confidence is he was a significantly better player than Rooney, much more deserving of his legendary status, and on the whole his career was significantly more noteworthy. I'm not trying to equate the two. However to avoid looking at the obvious parallels which are grounded in fact, and the contrasting perceptions, strikes me as a very odd form of ignorance. There's nothing subjective there to be arguing about.
*all of the '66 World Cup, most of the '70 World Cup, a dozen games of his in the league and European Cup at his peak and a handful of games at either end of it...don't ask me why! I just happened to be in a phase where I was curious about the past greats at the same time as a boatload of full games was being made freely available online.
Pelé went into semi-retirement in '74, and just decided to pick and choose when he wanted play for Santos. Cruyff quit football and then came back because he lost so much money investing in pig farms, then at the very end of his career he went to Ajax's rivals Feyenoord purely out of spite. Beckenbauer was at the heart of an embarrassing decline for Bayern, in part fuelled by the kind of arrogance Beckenbauer exemplified throughout his career. Lots of the greats had so much political power that tehy did what they want - they were called kings and emperors for a reason!
George Best went to a number of different clubs and basically decided he couldn't be arsed turning up fit for a significant portion of his later career. A lot of people criticised Giggs for staying on "well past his sell-by date". Roy Keane got to the point where he wasn't just bullying the young kids in private but openly criticising them in public, years after he was past his peak and had held the club to ransom.
Wait until we have to extend the contracts of Riolas clients. It's going to be a nightmare, chairs will be thrown up and down Carrington
Great video.
I normally believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but anyone who voted no is either a product of incest or just plain stupid.
This type of thinking applies to almost all players. At the end of the day, players, even if they love the club, will think about their career at the end of the day and their own personal motivations. On one hand you have someone like Malouda who chose to stay at Chelsea and collect his wages as long as he could versus Welbeck who left his boyhood club for playing time.
I'm sure that there are players who genuinely love their club, but at the same time that alone shouldn't be the criteria for legend status.
Arsenal were at one time negotiating to bring John Terry to the Emirates, pre Abramovich takeover, but he stayed.
Tony Adams has said in the past that Sir Alex tried numerous times to bring him to Old Trafford but he stayed. It wasn't totally out of the kindness of his heart as he was our best paid player and brought up to parity with anyone who got higher wages than him at any particular time.
Chelsea and Arsenal fans still consider both of them legends, rightly so, when although you can say they love their respective clubs, staying was also the best option for them, same as Rooney. At the end of the day its a job to these guys with little sentimentality involved compared to earning the best wages, winning trophies and doing what's best for their family.
I'm no Man Utd fan and although I've got family and mates who support them, I don't make a habit of watching United matches but I still don't understand, regardless of his contract disputes and poor performances in recent years how a player who is the club's all time record goal scorer and has won every trophy there is to win with the club playing a vital part in some of them, isn't considered a legend.
It's pretty much all subjective! There are certain parrallels, but there is so much different about the two situations (starting with all of the human beings involved) that to take very much from it - other than they both played out the latter years of their career in teams that weren't much good - is stretching things in my opinion.
It is just that though - my opinion. :-)
A Legend.
The number of goals, decisive ones, a number of brilliant moments, his individual and team achievements easily trumps his alleged issues with the club which by the way you can find with many other players, even legends of our club.
People who claim he could never get a package he did here are wrong because City would move earth to get him in their team in 2010. He would get better salary and at least equal chance for trophies. It would seriously shake us as he was the face of our club and the main man while City was on the rise. But, he didn't go there, he stayed. For the money, because of Fergie's assurance, because he, in the end, didn't want to make the move... It doesn't matter, he stayed.
I don't even know why there is a dispute about second time as it was the club or Fergie more willing to let him go and kinda prepared everything for the exit. He even stuck him on the bench on some occasions, most notable that Madrid second leg. If you think that's a minor thing, if Fergie ever left Cantona on the bench in such a match, Eric would leave in a second.
But, as I said, he stayed, gave absolutely best years of his football life to us while winning everything and becoming our leading all-time goal scorer.
Did he use us in a way? Well, United used him too. For marketing purposes and gaining profit out of him. For playing him when there was no logic in it as his injury could get just worse like playing totally unfit with an ankle injury against Bayern in the second leg. He wasn't able to play more than 45 minutes and couldn't contribute to the crucial league ending that season.
England used him rushing him back after breaking metatarsal before World Cup 2006. In 2007, on everyone surprise, he manages to break the third metatarsal in three years at the age of 21 for United in a league match and immediately after return gets another ankle injury. In 2010 he was again rushed back after injury for the World Cup. He again played injured towards the end of 2012 season.
Anyway, even if that narrative about Wayne using us, is in a way true, it worked both ways as United and England also did the same. You can argue he could take better care of his body. But, everyone who points that misses a number of minutes he played and more importantly a number of serious injuries that certainly took away some of his pace and explosiveness so early in his career. You could say he didn't care about his body even on the pitch and often went through the pain to play for a club or a national team. That's one of the reasons we liked him so much. You wouldn't see that kind of behaviour in many other players (there was a word about Saha unwilling to play because of a minor knock, many other players did exactly the same to prolong their career...)
Anyway, thanks for all the memories Wayne.
Your achievements and status will just grow as time goes by.
The number of goals, decisive ones, a number of brilliant moments, his individual and team achievements easily trumps his alleged issues with the club which by the way you can find with many other players, even legends of our club.
People who claim he could never get a package he did here are wrong because City would move earth to get him in their team in 2010. He would get better salary and at least equal chance for trophies. It would seriously shake us as he was the face of our club and the main man while City was on the rise. But, he didn't go there, he stayed. For the money, because of Fergie's assurance, because he, in the end, didn't want to make the move... It doesn't matter, he stayed.
I don't even know why there is a dispute about second time as it was the club or Fergie more willing to let him go and kinda prepared everything for the exit. He even stuck him on the bench on some occasions, most notable that Madrid second leg. If you think that's a minor thing, if Fergie ever left Cantona on the bench in such a match, Eric would leave in a second.
But, as I said, he stayed, gave absolutely best years of his football life to us while winning everything and becoming our leading all-time goal scorer.
Did he use us in a way? Well, United used him too. For marketing purposes and gaining profit out of him. For playing him when there was no logic in it as his injury could get just worse like playing totally unfit with an ankle injury against Bayern in the second leg. He wasn't able to play more than 45 minutes and couldn't contribute to the crucial league ending that season.
England used him rushing him back after breaking metatarsal before World Cup 2006. In 2007, on everyone surprise, he manages to break the third metatarsal in three years at the age of 21 for United in a league match and immediately after return gets another ankle injury. In 2010 he was again rushed back after injury for the World Cup. He again played injured towards the end of 2012 season.
Anyway, even if that narrative about Wayne using us, is in a way true, it worked both ways as United and England also did the same. You can argue he could take better care of his body. But, everyone who points that misses a number of minutes he played and more importantly a number of serious injuries that certainly took away some of his pace and explosiveness so early in his career. You could say he didn't care about his body even on the pitch and often went through the pain to play for a club or a national team. That's one of the reasons we liked him so much. You wouldn't see that kind of behaviour in many other players (there was a word about Saha unwilling to play because of a minor knock, many other players did exactly the same to prolong their career...)
Anyway, thanks for all the memories Wayne.
Your achievements and status will just grow as time goes by.
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You're reading too much. He's a Man Utd legend.
Truly and emphatically a club legend. Not as pretty or as outrageously talented as some; but none were more committed. This is especially marked because the role of elite athlete was always somehow a marginally extra testing struggle for him. He was a shy lad, not the tallest; he probably had some personality weaknessess and sometimes succumbed to temptation. But he had vision and guts and no little skill on a football pitch.
He loved a laugh; Wayne was (seems to me from this distance, anyway) for a long time a major part of the glue of the cameraderie of the United dressing room. He leaves us such a trove of emotional memories - when I hear his name he will always hang suspended in the evening air, a primrose tinted boot nine feet in the air, the ball distorted by the impact of his scissors kick, on the way to the City net. All the memories are not so beautiful of course. WR, we all recall, went through a turbulent phase in which his anger seemed like a blister about to burst. Wayne did fade in the latter years. Being in and out of the side didn't suit him. SAF used to say he more than anyone needed games, he needed matches to get match fit. I haven't forgotten either his flirtation with disaster when his agent pushed for the golden handshake, winning wages that were - arguably - not merited.
Though he still raised a cheer at OT, and had a massive following on social media, etc, WR also flushed out the nay-saying keyboard warriors on this and other forums. People who invest big energy into deciphering who is a cool subject for their hateful derision. Anyway it is good to see many people here expressing their appreciation and affection.
I think clearing out his OT locker will be an emotional moment for this Scouser with Irish heritage, who so regularly brought passion and vision to the field of all our dreams. Much love and appreciation to Wayne and Colleen and family, thanks man, for the good times.
He loved a laugh; Wayne was (seems to me from this distance, anyway) for a long time a major part of the glue of the cameraderie of the United dressing room. He leaves us such a trove of emotional memories - when I hear his name he will always hang suspended in the evening air, a primrose tinted boot nine feet in the air, the ball distorted by the impact of his scissors kick, on the way to the City net. All the memories are not so beautiful of course. WR, we all recall, went through a turbulent phase in which his anger seemed like a blister about to burst. Wayne did fade in the latter years. Being in and out of the side didn't suit him. SAF used to say he more than anyone needed games, he needed matches to get match fit. I haven't forgotten either his flirtation with disaster when his agent pushed for the golden handshake, winning wages that were - arguably - not merited.
Though he still raised a cheer at OT, and had a massive following on social media, etc, WR also flushed out the nay-saying keyboard warriors on this and other forums. People who invest big energy into deciphering who is a cool subject for their hateful derision. Anyway it is good to see many people here expressing their appreciation and affection.
I think clearing out his OT locker will be an emotional moment for this Scouser with Irish heritage, who so regularly brought passion and vision to the field of all our dreams. Much love and appreciation to Wayne and Colleen and family, thanks man, for the good times.
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It will be weird not having him associated with United, I had just finished school and starting Uni when he joined after that brilliant Euro 2004, always liked him since he was the first high profile footballer at United that was the same age as me. He probably should have achieved alot more than he did not just with the club but with himself as well. If he had the discipline of Messi or Ronaldo, granted not many do, to look after themselves I think he would be up there alongside them two. I do think that when he was rushed back for that Bayern second leg when he clearly wasn't fit contributed to the start of things going downhill, was such a surprise to see him on the team sheet considering he was supposed to be out for weeks/months.
Perhaps he might have stayed a year or 2 too long when especially as he was starting to be shoehorned into the side at the expense of better/more in-form players at the time. For me a United legend, gave everything for the club, scored many a great goal and to top it all off he won the lot!
Perhaps he might have stayed a year or 2 too long when especially as he was starting to be shoehorned into the side at the expense of better/more in-form players at the time. For me a United legend, gave everything for the club, scored many a great goal and to top it all off he won the lot!
Stats week in and week out - when it comes to Rooney - it means nada 
There's an article on SkySports where he claims it's the right time to leave now. The guy is a legend, but he should have packed his bags 3 seasons ago!
Not for me, I know very well what happened - the statement he put out alone was enough for me to put him firmly in the 'not a legend' category.
Anyone else still a bit emotional about this?
Really hope Rashford pushes on and fills the gap left by Rooney. Young English talent should always prosper at United, especially when it's all a bit Roy of the Rovers.
Despite my head telling me it's right my heart is telling me he shouldn't have gone.
Really hope Rashford pushes on and fills the gap left by Rooney. Young English talent should always prosper at United, especially when it's all a bit Roy of the Rovers.
Despite my head telling me it's right my heart is telling me he shouldn't have gone.
To be fair, I can see why some wouldn't consider him a legend.
A lot of people don't consider Brian Kidd a legend.
I personally consider him a Legend but I also consider Ronaldo, Evra, van der Sar and Van Nistelrooy legends.
For me he wouldn't get into the best ever United XI. Cantona, Law and Ruud were better. But you can't argue with his achievements and statistics.
A lot of people don't consider Brian Kidd a legend.
I personally consider him a Legend but I also consider Ronaldo, Evra, van der Sar and Van Nistelrooy legends.
For me he wouldn't get into the best ever United XI. Cantona, Law and Ruud were better. But you can't argue with his achievements and statistics.
Thank feck. Noisy and clueless.
Boy, he was such a great player when he was angry. Once he started to mellow it all went downhill.
Once he started to mellow it all went downhill. Some of my favourite less remembered Rooney goals:
Ya, there is. Rio wants to convey that his legendary status is not limited to Man Utd, but he is an All Time Football legend. Just wants to emphasis that he is much more than a club legend.
All great goals. No doubt that RVP was the main player in 2012/13 season but that Fulham goal was also a massive one. Loved it.
Correct. He gave him an even bigger compliment.
Some great goals in the post above. The complete centre forward for a couple of years.
I don't really get the this legend debate. Who cares what label is used.
What I really don't get is likening Rooney's behaviour to that of Keane/Rio/Best/Cantona. They were all different scenarios which is why fans look at them in differing lights. If you want to stick up for Rooney do so but don't drag other players down to do so.
I don't really get the this legend debate. Who cares what label is used.
What I really don't get is likening Rooney's behaviour to that of Keane/Rio/Best/Cantona. They were all different scenarios which is why fans look at them in differing lights. If you want to stick up for Rooney do so but don't drag other players down to do so.
Love all of those. Special love that Everton comeback. Typical of that time and typical of that Rooney that I loved the most.
I don't think you understand what my point was.
Thats fair enough mate the statement wasn't clever though personally i've got over it.
But you'll constantly read on here people holding resentment towards him for other shit that wasn't down to him or never actually happened.
Ditto, I never felt he really was a Man United legend. As I read somewhere else, we were just the best destination for him in England, as he was never likely to move abroad or be satisfied with less successful clubs like Arsenal or Chelsea (when we first signed him).
For me, he's been great for us but the fact he made that 'pyjama' statement proves once again the feeling I got from him with regard to United - happy to be here but retained the Everton spirit throughout.
oferdy5Wayne Rooney breaks the @manchesterunited goal scoring record... 250... massive.. huge & thoroughly deserved! I played in that game against Fenerbahce when he made his debut.. Hattrick at his age... absolute superstar! To perform week in week out for 12 years at the top and score that amount of goals is a phenomenal achievement and one i know he will be proud of... the guys at OT better start working on the statue... whilst they are there, put 5 Premier League medals, 1 FA Cup, 1 Champions League, 2 League Cup & 1 FIFA Club World Cup round his neck... congrats my friend!! #Rooney#Rooney250 #MUFC
Absolute garbage from you, as if you knew Rio's ulterior motive in his very careful selection of words! Laughable.
Consistent with every other word you've added to this thread.
Rio is a massive supporter of Rooney and has always been effusive about him, like pretty much every United, Everton & England player he's ever played with.
Must have gotten confused when he said build a statue outside OT, surely you'll tell us your mate Rio meant to say Goodison!
I do understand your point. I don't agree or disagree with it, really. For some people that record counts for a lot. For others the poor performances outweigh it. Based on the number of people that are positive about Rooney's legendary status, I'd guess it probably helped a little more than it hurt.
What I do disagree with is the characterisation of that part of his career as terrible, for the reasons mentioned already. Surely you can see that if you were to call Rooney's last few seasons terrible then you'd have to apply the same description to many of our greatest ever players...which sounds silly because it is silly.
Those persons who are big fans of Rooney will consider him a legend those who are not will not consider him a legend. Does it really matter? He was an integral part of our success and he holds a number of the club records so he is definitely part of our history. I do believe that he is over-rated but the fact is he contributed to our most successful period. I personally will think highly of him before 2010 but after that I think the media created a monster.
He, regardless of the circumstances, is our all-time goalscorer and thus must be considered an important part of our history but our truly greats are Charlton, Best and Law as they, at one time, were considered the best in Europe if not the world.
He, regardless of the circumstances, is our all-time goalscorer and thus must be considered an important part of our history but our truly greats are Charlton, Best and Law as they, at one time, were considered the best in Europe if not the world.
How many of our legends do you think would've stayed with us if it wasn't for the fact we were the best destination for them in England?
The difference between Rooney and pretty much all the rest of our greatest ever players was that his decline came at an age when most players are hitting their peak, and shortly after signing the biggest contract ever given by the club - and although he can't be blamed fully for either of those things (especially the contract) it does add a different context to how he is judged by some.
Cantona promptly gave up football completely when he felt that he was past his best, similarly Gary Neville. Giggs and Scholes played for years more than Rooney and adapted their games so they could still contribute at the highest level, even if they couldn't play every week. Charlton, Robson and Keane all played for years longer and saw more of a natural decline (hastened by injury in the case of the latter two) rather than the 'cliff-drop' that we saw with Rooney. Denis Law moved on after injury, and George Best was (sadly) an alcoholic. I just don't get any correlation between Rooney's latter years (which some people view as 'terrible', and at the very least were disappointing in relation to his age, status in the team, and wage) and the latter years of our other 'legends' - they each have a specific and different set of circumstances.
EDIT: for the sake of clarity I should reiterate that I do consider him a legend of the club - I don't think it's reasonable to argue otherwise, but I also think it is pretty clear that the latter third of his career was a great disappointment, and can see why that - along with the contract disputes and public statements - have tarnished him in the eyes of many, to the extent where they won't personally consider him a legend even if his goals and longevity have made him one in wider terms.
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Rio is silly, Rooney never played for All Time Football football club. That was O'Shea.
More great goals: