Heh. I think you and I are doomed to never agree on anything about Rooney. I thought he was pretty crap. Disappointing after his last outing.
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Heh. I think you and I are doomed to never agree on anything about Rooney. I thought he was pretty crap. Disappointing after his last outing.
His overall play is alright but he's just not a threat anymore, you can't count on him to finish a chance that drops to his feet and he barely has time to react. He doesn't get many chances either in most games now.
I think we have different expectations. You are being a bit harsh about his performance last night because you had higher expectations after his excellent game vs Wham. The best part was that he didn't hide and was willing to take responsibility by popping up in dangerous areas and shooting. On another day he would have scored from that lovely Pogba ball or from that excellent shot outside the pealty box. His movement was good, kept it simple but finishing was off. Not bad, IMO.
No talks about him throwing shoes behind Mourinho?
He would be out tomorrow if Fergie was still the gaffer
He would be out tomorrow if Fergie was still the gaffer
It's been discussed. He was angry with the officials, not Mourinho.
Jose will be gutted if Wazza wants to leave now.
We would be so fecked.
Ahh got beaten to it, I disagree he was angry with officials.
We would be so fecked.
Ahh got beaten to it, I disagree he was angry with officials.
His last outing was crap too. It was the one before that, or even the one before that I think.
He's absolutely 100% on his way out.
He's been marginalised for a long while now. After being left on the bench entirely for the Spurs match at the weekend (and not playing a full match at Zorya) you'd think he'd be the one to get 90 minutes last night but nope. He was dragged off when we most needed a goal.
I'm relaxed about the situation now, Mourinho has handled it perfectly and he's on his way out. I said when Mourinho called him out for not being a midfielder in the summer that was the start of Mourinho's plan to push him out:
Here's Mourinho before the Spurs game:
Mourinho said:
If we could now convince him to take the Chinese money and somehow get an ridiculous transfer fee too it would be just perfect
So that was a peformance that falls inbetween the explosive Rooney we saw last weds and the haphazard Rooney we've been seeing for the longest time. I like his fire, I like when we closes down and I actually think that without the ball, he's still pretty damn fast.
The problem is, Rooney with the ball in and around the area. It's clear that he can no longer beat a man with the ball at his feet, he's just too slow, either of body or mind to create that extra yard of space and dink a pass or get a shot off. I also felt he was dropping too deep at times where as he need to be further up on the left, he was often stood right next to Pogba near the half way line.
This is the first time in a while i've felt sorry for him, because he looks really fired up and you can see glimpses of the Rooney of old, and whatever anyone says, that Rooney would walk into any team the prem.
He tried a couple of times last night to lay off a ball to a team mate when a shot was on in the box and you just feel in those positions he should always be shooting, instead he seems to want to lay it off to Zlatan to finish. But when you're one of three players responsible for goal output, you need to smashing the ball in and around the area.
The problem is, Rooney with the ball in and around the area. It's clear that he can no longer beat a man with the ball at his feet, he's just too slow, either of body or mind to create that extra yard of space and dink a pass or get a shot off. I also felt he was dropping too deep at times where as he need to be further up on the left, he was often stood right next to Pogba near the half way line.
This is the first time in a while i've felt sorry for him, because he looks really fired up and you can see glimpses of the Rooney of old, and whatever anyone says, that Rooney would walk into any team the prem.
He tried a couple of times last night to lay off a ball to a team mate when a shot was on in the box and you just feel in those positions he should always be shooting, instead he seems to want to lay it off to Zlatan to finish. But when you're one of three players responsible for goal output, you need to smashing the ball in and around the area.
I think its telling he's now judged as "not as bad as his worse" as the benchmark.
He looks fitter and he tried yesterday but if anyone else put in that performance week in week out they'd be berated. Id rather Lingard got more minutes than him.
He looks fitter and he tried yesterday but if anyone else put in that performance week in week out they'd be berated. Id rather Lingard got more minutes than him.
Some good points here, one of my main criticisms is that he's become a coward these days (one can only presume because he knows what the rest of us do, that he's on the wane)
As per JM's first presser, ANYONE can play a ten yard pass with no pressure, but a number 10 has to do it in the most congested of areas - he's lost the skill AND the cajones, to do that.
It does feel like we've entered another chapter in the Rooney exit saga. In the past week or so he's been publicly called out, an unused sub and hooked when we needed a goal.
I think Mourinho will give him a chance to get the record but by the end of the season he won't be making the match day squad and he'll go in the summer.
I think Mourinho will give him a chance to get the record but by the end of the season he won't be making the match day squad and he'll go in the summer.
Rooney must look at Zlatan and think about the absolute state of himself, being 4 years his junior.
I reckon he will be sold in the summer, him being benched and subbed as often is preparing the ground for it. Also think that altough he is well liked in the dressing room he has lost some of his influence since Zlatan and Pogba with their swagger and status surely is seen as top dogs now.
Think it has come to the level where the rest of the squad would start to question his inclusion in the team at the expense of someone else, something that would have been unheard of just last year under LvG.
I reckon he will be sold in the summer, him being benched and subbed as often is preparing the ground for it. Also think that altough he is well liked in the dressing room he has lost some of his influence since Zlatan and Pogba with their swagger and status surely is seen as top dogs now.
Think it has come to the level where the rest of the squad would start to question his inclusion in the team at the expense of someone else, something that would have been unheard of just last year under LvG.
That was a master stroke from Mourinho. He was clearly pissed off at being subbed, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that by the way, that's commendable if anything and his firey passion to play has always been a credit to him but Mourinho has played it down to avoid any Mourinho-Rooney argument stories in the press this week.
Mourinho, after saying he wouldn't talk about referees, then manages to get a dig in at the referees decisions through Rooney!
Despite playing it down and offering Rooney a chance for it to be dead and buried, I really won't be surprised if he is daft enough to speak to one of his journalist buddies and say "it wasn't because of the ref, I was pissed off because I wanted to stay on because I want to fight for my place, want to win yada yada bla bla".
I didn't think he was that poor yesterday. Should've scored.
I'm absolutely fine with him being a squad player. It's his level now. Mkhitaryan and Martial are better players so they play ahead of him. Mata too.
I'm absolutely fine with him being a squad player. It's his level now. Mkhitaryan and Martial are better players so they play ahead of him. Mata too.
No, he really was angry with the officials. Was arguing with the fourth official from the moment he left the pitch all the way to the bench.
All smiles after the game. It was obviously the potentially dropped points that wound him up, rather than the substitution.
I thought his behaviour was a bit weird. To do it right behind Mourinho was just odd.
It's not just Rooney buy I don't get some footballers. He's dished out plenty of fouls, worse than anything he got last night. He's done his fair share of diving as well. Yet anybody touches him and he's outraged.
The one foul that he really reacted to was silly. He'd already given the ball away. I think his remonstrations are sometimes a way of covering for that misplaced pass.
Not buying it, hardly any player is ever happy when substituted, but he was angry as feck because of the officials.
Don't necessarily think he's on his way out either, a lot will depend on the rest of the season and what he wants for himself regarding his career after breaking Sir Bobby's record.
He might end up with around 10 goals/15 assists, by all means very decent.
Zlatan was extremely talented as a youngster, but his first five or six years were nothing compared to the level Rooney was reaching in his first five years as a professional. Wazza just doesn't have the technique and finesse Zlatan has, plus he's been worn off a bit by playing week in week out on such a high level at such a young age, but I don't think his shape is that bad.
Don't necessarily think he's on his way out either, a lot will depend on the rest of the season and what he wants for himself regarding his career after breaking Sir Bobby's record.
He might end up with around 10 goals/15 assists, by all means very decent.
Zlatan was extremely talented as a youngster, but his first five or six years were nothing compared to the level Rooney was reaching in his first five years as a professional. Wazza just doesn't have the technique and finesse Zlatan has, plus he's been worn off a bit by playing week in week out on such a high level at such a young age, but I don't think his shape is that bad.
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I think he was angry with the officials.
It cut to him talking with Mourinho on the bench and he was raising his arm and gesturing to his elbow or something, presumably talking about the missed handball in the box.
It cut to him talking with Mourinho on the bench and he was raising his arm and gesturing to his elbow or something, presumably talking about the missed handball in the box.
He was presumably (justifiably) furious about the blatant pen we should have got for hand ball.
There are a few that see it this way dude, he isn't performing like he used to put he is still performing better than our other options.
Thought he did alright last night, passes were quick touch was good, should of done better with the ball played in from out wide but he also nearly scored a screamer.
Our attack was better with him in it
I applaud Mourinho for being the first manager to tackle the Rooney situation and showing he´s not certain to play no matter how bad he´s playing. It showed straight away in yesterday´s match when Rashford came on that he gave us something different than Rooney. Zlatan has scored more goals in 5 months than Rooney has for 2 seasons and look at the difference between the 2 players, Zlatan a ultimate player and Rooney not taking care of himself like a top player should, Zlatan is also 4 years older but in much better condition. I like seeing Rooney angry as he was last night and perhaps that will wake him up but I´m afraid he´s just finished as a top player.
I think it was more the accumulation of "injustices" he felt victim of. Just before he got subbed he was knocked off the ball and felt it was a foul. That's what he was motioning to Mourninho in my opinion. Rooney nearly always think it's a foul when he gives it away cheep though.
Either way banging a shoe against a wall right behind your manager is just odd behaviour. It really didn't warrant it.
Love stoic Mata sat next to him in that
Whatever Rooney was pissed off about, its fairly aggressive to do that directly behind your manager.
I love him again, his beard is glorious.
I was half expecting him to do a "Sol Bamba" next, it really was like one of my young boy´s throwing a tantrum but at least it shows passion and that has been lacking from Rooney in a long time. Mourinho subbing him, not picking him will either wake him up as a player or he will continue to prove he´s not worth the money he´s getting.
He looks leaner and motivated but sadly, the quality has gone.
I think Mourinho will get rid. Not because of anything personal but, simply getting him off the wage bill so he can bring other high profile players.
I think Mourinho will get rid. Not because of anything personal but, simply getting him off the wage bill so he can bring other high profile players.
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What the feck is he doing, getting turf out of between the studs or what?
He was crap yesterday though, I liked how Savage or the other idiot tried to claim that his shit first touch was actually a pass to Zlatan or Mata.
Rooney has been garbage all season and in no way ever out performed Martial.
Lets cross off RB and RW, fairly sure at some stage he ended up pretty much playing as RB during a game when we were under the cosh a few years ago under Fergie to help out during a game (Barca/Spurs away or someone s**t in the league seems to be in my head?) and he surely started on the right hand side of the attack at some point over the years?
Fair enough, I still doubt he was particularly happy at being subbed though but like I said, there's nowt wrong with that.
Behind Zlatan the options are:
Mkhitaryan, Martial, Mata, Lingard and Rashford before Rooney is picked and that is for a 4-3-2-1.
In a 4-3-3 with Herrera, Carrick playing you can then add Pogba into the mix. So essentially 2 players for every position before Rooney is needed and they're all better than him.
Wel he has, martial has been below average all year and only in the last two games or so.
Lingard is not better than Rooney that's not even worth discussing.
Rashford has been very poor this season so far.
Rooney started poorly but has been playing well for over a month now
Right now they both offer something more than he does - pace and dynamism and that is essential to the our attacking play. They might never reach the levels he reached as a player but they are ahead of him in the pecking order and rightly so.
He's not been "playing well for over a month" at all. Last night was a tumescent as he's has been for 3 years, he had a good game against West Ham and scored a good goal against Fener but he's been poor other than that.
You mean like aside from his past two games, which he's stunk the place out in.
Even the games he's"played well" he was "ok", at best.
Even if in your opinion he has only been good for two games that's still more than rash and lingard
Just having pace isn't enough, it's why we have struggled and why zlatan struggled because he had two blunt wingers opposite him
Rooney has 3 goals 8 assists
Rash 4 goals 1 assist
Lingard 3 goals 2 assists
He is more than twice as effective and that's with being dropped and having been out of form.
Clearly he is above those two in the pecking order as he has been starting ahead of them recently, rightly so
The drama in here when Rooney doesn't give a 10/10 is unrivalled for any player in any other forum.
I'm not saying he is a star player but he is much much better than lingard who would struggle to fit into that palace team
For all the talk about Zlatan's conditioning Rooney would still comfortably beat him for pace so I'm not sure how relevant it really is. Rooney's issues are more down to staleness and lack of motivation than anything
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