[Hot Potato]

Pretty fair and I agree with you on that. But, if stats are enough to get you higher ratings, which basically means more praise- Why has rooney been getting this sort of abuse despite getting goals and assists.
Let's be fair, this thread is basically an extension of whether Rooney will be regarded as a Utd legend or not. Those who strong believe in it will defend him, those who don't believe will criticize him, and then the few rare ones who believe he is a legend but won't be remembered like some of the other legends like Giggs, Scholes and maybe even Rio, Vidic, Neville are the ones who have been pretty fair in his assessment.
P.S. I do agree I have been biased and am more than willing to see him on the bench should there be a better alternative, but I would back him till he wears the United shirt

Where are all these goals and assists that pro Rooney supporter keep valiantly dredging up when they are trying to justify a so called good performance. I admire their persistence to keep up the defence but 1 goal & 2 assists in 5 games from a player in the most creative area in the team from a player that it has been argued has football intelligence, is technically good, can pass like scholes/Prilo and cross like Beckham is not what I'd class as being good performances or good form.

To me personally, it's the length of time I've had to put up with an underperforming player who no matter performance or results starts the next game and the next and the next. I'm not the manager so can only trust in Mourinho that he does the right thing in the long run for no-one other than the team of Manchester United FC

 

[anant]

I don't think stats are enough to get you a higher rating necessarily, but game changing moments are. Rooney against Hull wasn't very good, but his moment of magic took him from a "mid 5" performance to a 6.3 (likewise Ibra vs City).

I think most balanced people agree Rooney hasn't been awful, but he hasn't been close to good enough so far. However the only attacker I'd say overall that has been good is Ibrahimovich. This is a problem we've had for years though and I can't help but think Rooney is a part of it.

I don't think he should be dropped just because, but I think we need to give a few different formations and selections a try to find one that works. That will mean Rooney sitting out half a dozen games to see if our cohesion improves.

Personally I think Rooney provides much better balance from the right, with a more technically gifted player through the middle (Mata/Mikh). This is most people's biggest gripe - has Mata had 10 games as a number 10 to build a good partnership with our strikers and midfielders? No. Will Mikhitaryan or Pogba be given this chance? It's impossible without shifting Rooney which looks unlikely.

Of course we can argue that Rooney's stats mean he should play and if we were winning titles and playing the Football we all want to see then I'd completely agree. However he's getting decent stats in a team that everyone agrees needs to hugely improve and has done for 3 years. Maybe part of that improvement is trusting that someone else in the position of the pitch that always gets the highest productivity would be equally as effective.

We talk about Rooney's stats, but what about Mata's stats as a number 10 for Chelsea, or Pogba's further up the pitch and in a different formation at Juve, or Mikhitaryan's stats as a creative hub for Dortmund (often cutting inside to occupy a central position)? Of course they can't replicate these if Rooney is taking up their natural positions.

The one thing I do know is Rooney doesn't fit the "type" of creative force I see in other good teams. I look at Ozil, De Bruyne, Coutinho, Silva, Erikson, Oscar and in terms of technical ability Rooney stands out like a sore thumb.

I completely agree Rooney isn't half as good as he was a few years ago I also agree that Mata/Mkhi should be playing centrally. It's actually a point I raise every week to my friends about Mata's position. But playing Mata centrally means that we are left with Lingard/Mkhi on the Right wing. One is not very talented, the other seems to be out of form or maybe even confidence. With Martial at the other flank also out of form, we simply cannot afford to play that way.
Even Mkhi centrally and Mata wide may not be very beneficial as valencia and Rooney have a brilliant understanding between them and our attack can transition from central to wing play easily.
I readily would agree we can do much better than Rooney, but for that to happen we need an in-form natural RW. And we don't have any

 

[wr8_utd]

Wait, people really take these ratings seriously? Rooney could score 2 and get an assist and still probably get something like a 6 because it might be against some team that "gave him too much space". How can one take a rating seriously where the majority of the forum is so obviously biased.

 

[Litch]

I completely agree Rooney isn't half as good as he was a few years ago I also agree that Mata/Mkhi should be playing centrally. It's actually a point I raise every week to my friends about Mata's position. But playing Mata centrally means that we are left with Lingard/Mkhi on the Right wing. One is not very talented, the other seems to be out of form or maybe even confidence. With Martial at the other flank also out of form, we simply cannot afford to play that way.
Even Mkhi centrally and Mata wide may not be very beneficial as valencia and Rooney have a brilliant understanding between them and our attack can transition from central to wing play easily.
I readily would agree we can do much better than Rooney, but for that to happen we need an in-form natural RW. And we don't have any

Agree with this plus look at the goals and assist column, we'd be even worse position without him on the pitch at mo. We have to qualify for CL next year and results are only thing that matters. Rooney in the side is Hobson's choice as there's no KDB sitting on the bench ready to play 10.....

 

[An Irish Red]

Wait, people really take these ratings seriously? Rooney could score 2 and get an assist and still probably get something like a 6 because it might be against some team that "gave him too much space". How can one take a rating seriously where the majority of the forum is so obviously biased.

What's more likely; a) the majority of people became randomly biased against a player over a decade into his career or b) he's not good enough now and his diehard fans refuse to see it?

 

[LouisDanGaal]

What's more likely; a) the majority of people became randomly biased against a player over a decade into his career or b) he's not good enough now and his diehard fans refuse to see it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_polarization

 

[An Irish Red]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_polarization

So it is those pesky internet forums that have led me to believe that he's not good enough for us now. It's not his ability or performances or anything. Good to know.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

So it is those pesky internet forums that have led me to believe that he's not good enough for us now. It's not his ability or performances or anything. Good to know.

There has been occasions where it was accepted we had the best full backs in the world, including darmian. Rojo was seen as a commanding centre half. Every person on the forum wanted Depay, it was seen as getting a potential ronaldo. The Thiago deal was accepted as wrapped up even though there was nothing there. Like 100 other examples, group polorization is unavoidable

 

[clarkydaz]

There has been occasions where it was accepted we had the best full backs in the world, including darmian. Rojo was seen as a commanding centre half. Every person on the forum wanted Depay, it was seen as getting a potential ronaldo.

And then people saw them perform on the pitch and evaluated them as poor/average, and will remain till they play better. What does this prove?

 

[An Irish Red]

There has been occasions where it was accepted we had the best full backs in the world, including darmian. Rojo was seen as a commanding centre half. Every person on the forum wanted Depay, it was seen as getting a potential ronaldo. The Thiago deal was accepted as wrapped up even though there was nothing there. Like 100 other examples, group polorization is unavoidable

People overrate their clubs players, although not to the extent that you've stated, and the best example of that is those who still talk about Wayne Rooney as if he was the same as five years ago.

 

[Vashu]

Imagine the directive of a forward being "stand up front between the two CB's, have as few touches as possible, get on the end of chances" and having to carry it out. No wonder Welbeck and co. upped stick and everyone eventually ended up leaving. Nightmarish stuff really.

But you do need to occupy the thoughts of both central defenders, otherwise the opposing team can easily stifle our attacking game by delegating more bodies to areas where our play takes place.

Reasons for LVG downfall lied in both, the system and personnel choices.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

And then people saw them perform on the pitch and evaluated them as poor/average, and will remain till they play better. What does this prove?

This was while they were on the pitch playing

 

[LouisDanGaal]

People overrate their clubs players, although not to the extent that you've stated, and the best example of that is those who still talk about Wayne Rooney as if he was the same as five years ago.

To exactly the extent i'm saying

 

[dichinero]

There has been occasions where it was accepted we had the best full backs in the world, including darmian. Rojo was seen as a commanding centre half. Every person on the forum wanted Depay, it was seen as getting a potential ronaldo. The Thiago deal was accepted as wrapped up even though there was nothing there. Like 100 other examples, group polorization is unavoidable

I'm interested to know where you got those opinions from? No player has been more overrated than the one you keep protecting

 

[Dante]

If only Mourinho read this thread, he'd become properly educated about football.

Some of you guys should make a powerpoint presentation and show to him.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

I'm interested to know where you got those opinions from? No player has been more overrated than the one you keep protecting

Here, it was literally the entire point of the post.

I don't understand why you live in this thread as someone who hates Rooney?

Anyway i'm out of here for the Watford match day thread, time to get excited

 

[clarkydaz]

This was while they were on the pitch playing

if that's the case you'd agree in a short space of time that opinion died very quickly

 

[pixel]

Wait, people really take these ratings seriously? Rooney could score 2 and get an assist and still probably get something like a 6 because it might be against some team that "gave him too much space". How can one take a rating seriously where the majority of the forum is so obviously biased.

So because the majority don't agree with you, they are the ones who are biased? Righto. Ever considered for one teeny tiny moment that its not the majority who are biased?

 

[Dante]

So because the majority don't agree with you, they are the ones who are biased? Righto. Ever considered for one teeny tiny moment that its not the majority who are biased?

The majority of pundits rate Rooney. They're life-long football men with no bias one way or the other.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

if that's the case you'd agree in a short space of time that opinion died very quickly

Way too long in my opnion, but they did die yes. Some of the players it gets accepted would improve us is also ridiculous. You used to get people wanting Ighalo, it wasn't even a minority

 

[dichinero]

Here, it was literally the entire point of the post.

I don't understand why you live in this thread as someone who hates Rooney?

Anyway i'm out of here for the Watford match day thread, time to get excited

You're happy to make up stuff but when it is challenged it's an agenda.

Anyway, hope United win well today

 

[Dante]

Mourinho's livelihood is linked to how well his teams play and he keeps picking Rooney. Just like every other manager who's had him in their squad.

It's fine to question managers, but when everyone involved in the game tells you Rooney is still a decent player, maybe he is.

 

[Litch]

Good player just coming to the end of his shelf life in the prem set by his own very high standards. We've seen it before with others here like Evra one of my favourite players yet he went to Juve and prolonged his career by a couple of years. This league finds out players like no other whether that be age, fitness or just ability. Utd haven't got enough good players in order to hide Rooneys inadequencies maybe unlike some of the older players previously. That said, we don't have enough players in form to not play him either....

 

[clarkydaz]

The majority of pundits rate Rooney. They're life-long football men with no bias one way or the other.

that's not accurate at all. Souness, Redknapp, Carragher all question him now. Shearer urged him to retire from England

 

[LouisDanGaal]

You're happy to make up stuff but when it is challenged it's an agenda.

Anyway, hope United win well today

I have never pointed to an agenda, I said its group dynamics for certain opinions to form and become so commonplace they dominate.

Looks like a good team although slightly worried with 2 in midfield and Pogba's bad positioning, and Rooney's inability to track, Watford did put 4 in last weekend.

 

[An Irish Red]

The majority of pundits rate Rooney. They're life-long football men with no bias one way or the other.

They also raved about an over the hill Gerrard, Terry and Lampard and think that Joe Hart is a world class player. Spot the theme.

 

[Dante]

The majority of pundits rate Rooney. They're life-long football men with no bias one way or the other.

that's not accurate at all. Souness, Redknapp, Carragher all question him now. Shearer urged him to retire from England

 

[clarkydaz]

name some then who are currently fighting his corner. I'll give you Danny Murphy and Phil Neville. Even Gary Neville backtracked last week saying Rooney has a problem now

 

[Dante]

They also raved about an over the hill Gerrard, Terry and Lampard and think that Joe Hart is a world class player. Spot the theme.

They were all still performing well after they'd become 'over the hill'.

Gerrard was excellent during Liverpool's title push and Terry is still first choice under Conte. There's a lot of anti-English bias on this forum. The theme is irrelevant and bringing that up only undermines your point. Judge them as individuals, not based on their ethnicity.

It seems as though you've gathered Rooney up together with other English players you don't like, which is clouding your judgement.

 

[An Irish Red]

They were all still performing well after they'd become 'over the hill'.

Gerrard was excellent during Liverpool's title push and Terry is still first choice under Conte. There's a lot of anti-English bias on this forum. The theme is irrelevant and bringing that up only undermines your point. Judge them as individuals.

Pundits in England dramatically overrate English players. They always have done.

Take a look at how Joe Hart is fawned over to see how pointless it is to take anything a pundit says about an English player seriously.

 

[Dante]

Pundits in England dramatically overrate English players. They always have done.

Take a look at how Joe Hart is fawned over to see how pointless it is to take anything a pundit says about an English player seriously.

They also underrate some English players. And overrate some foreign players.

But so many rate Rooney, which is backed up by his managers consistently picking him, that you'd have say there's a consensus.

The media doesn't decide who plays. If they did, Hart would still be at City as you've pointed out. Rooney is picked on merit.

 

[nick2004]

These should be sticky. Not that it would deter the haters...

That's just a fact. Productivity since Sir Fergie.

Rooney 49 - 35
van Persie 28 - 6
Mata 27 - 19
Martial 17 - 14
Herrera 13 - 12
Fellaini 11 - 10
Rashford 9 - 2
Depay 7 - 7
Lingard 7 - 4
Young 6 - 12
Valencia 4 - 15
Di Maria 4 - 12
Ibrahimović 5 - 0

Couldn't be bothered much with those, as I don't care about those stats, so, did only the top threefour. And Rooney with van Persie had a goal or assist every 130 minutes of play, while Mata was at around 180, and Martial at 145. Used transfermarkt minutes.

Thought Martial would've topped that.

 

[An Irish Red]

They also underrate some English players. And overrate some foreign players.

But so many rate Rooney, which is backed up by his managers consistently picking him, that you'd have say there's a consensus.

The media doesn't decide who plays. If they did, Hart would still be at City as you've pointed out. Rooney is picked on merit.

Well at least we can agree that English pundits are an unreliable source.

I disagree with the idea that he's picked on merit though. Give his talent to Rashford and the latter wouldn't get a game. It's his status and name that get him picked. Certainly not his performances.

 

[Dante]

Well at least we can agree that English pundits are an unreliable source.

I disagree with the idea that he's picked on merit though. Give his talent to Rashford and the latter wouldn't get a game. It's his status and name that get him picked. Certainly not his performances.

I think Rashford is being underrated because he's English.

 

[anant]

I like how we tend to ignore all the views of managers, pundits, players when it comes to Rooney. I mean pundits and players is a bit understandable that he may have played with them or may be good friends. But why would a manager continue to pick him unless they believe that he is still decent. So the possible options are-
(a) Rooney is good enough only for China/MLS-Manager drops him, he gets criticized by pundits for dropping him, but the manager shuts them up by producing great results and fantastic football
(b) Rooney is decent and gets picked as he is the best option we have.
Surely a manager won't be willing to risk his job by playing someone who is hopeless just to please some pundits

 

[Dante]

I like how we tend to ignore all the views of managers, pundits, players when it comes to Rooney. I mean pundits and players is a bit understandable that he may have played with them or may be good friends. But why would a manager continue to pick him unless they believe that he is still decent. So the possible options are-
(a) Rooney is good enough only for China/MLS-Manager drops him, he gets criticized by pundits for dropping him, but the manager shuts them up by producing great results and fantastic football
(b) Rooney is decent and gets picked as he is the best option we have.
Surely a manager won't be willing to risk his job by playing someone who is hopeless just to please some pundits

Precisely.

The English media isn't as important as people on the internet seem to think. Mourinho has a history of dropping media favourites, and Pep has just done the same thing with the national team's first choice 'keeper. The world hasn't ended in any of those instances.

I can only assume that the media play a big part in the gameplay of Football Manager, so kids believe it's exactly the same in real life.

 

[Keegs]

How anybody can use pundits words or some stats to protect Rooney is ridiculous.All you have to do is watch the man play and you realise how average he is now a days.

 

[SecondFig]

How anybody can use pundits words or some stats to protect Rooney is ridiculous.All you have to do is watch the man play and you realise how average he is now a days.

Worse than average; poor first touch, poor short passing, no pace, low work rate, can't tackle, no threat in the air - the only thing he can do is ping Hollywood passes with a semi-decent accuracy... He's worse than Gerrard was in his final years at Liverpool

 

[JB08]

Utter gash.

 

[Minimalist]

His shooting technique is literally a 50-50 coin toss. Some times hits the target, other times it's like a Peter Kay advert.