You're a lucky man GIP. English TV refuses to acknowledge the obvious problem live. Instead it's everyone else's fault.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
You're a lucky man GIP. English TV refuses to acknowledge the obvious problem live. Instead it's everyone else's fault.
It was nowhere near as awful a performance in general as you'd think from this thread. People on here are so emotionally involved in the whole Rooney thing they exagerrate wildly. Especially after a bad result. He was awful against Villa. He wasn't awful yesterday.
He should have done better with those chances but none of them were straightforward and the fact he played a sloppy pass in the build-up to their goal also puts him in the firing line. In reality he was up against one of the most in-form CB pairings in the league and his all-round game was decent enough. Not great but by no means awful. If he'd scored the equaliser after that sensational first touch/nutmeg near the end we'd all be looking back on his game very differently.
The media aren't as emotionally involved so their opinion is more balanced. They slaughtered him after Villa, they're not being as critical now. Which is fair.
I think he played better overrall, he seems to be getting chances now, where he wasn't really before.
HOWEVER the second one should have been a 100% goal, but instead of shooting with his left after leaving the defender for dead and being one on one with the keeper, he dilly dallied like he did vs Spurs, then attempted to bring the ball on his right and was disposed.
There should have been zero chance for Williams to tackle him after he got past him.
He's a good player but the spot lights on him in absence of no other options up front. In seasons past, RVP would have scored and the focus would be less on Rooney cause we were still winning...
By "straightforward" I mean a chance that doesn't need any additional work from him for a strike at goal. Yes, he should have hit it with his left but the fact he was coming at it on his weaker side did make it a little more complicated. Williams defended the situation very well too. He's so strong and quick. But yeah, Rooney should have done a lot better. I don't disagree with that. It was a black mark on his performance. I just think too many people are inferring from that (as well as the weak chip and the sloppy pass mentioned above) that he had a really poor game overall. He didn't.
I guess the bar is set differently. For me for a top class striker that is a straightforward goal. You would also be aware of the pressure coming from your right and not manoeuvre the ball from your left.
I thought his overall performance was ok, making good runs and players were putting him in, so the chances not being creating for him stuff doesn't stand.
Put it like this, the 2 chances he had, had I had those in my Sunday league team and not even got a shot in at goal let alone score at least one of them, I would have been subbed.
I agree with Pogue, his Villa performance was a lot worse. Not that he was good against Swansea either, but it wasn't as bad.
Simple fact is the club have made stupid decisions to keep this guy happy leaving us up the creek.
RVP was our best pure number 9. Mata is our best 10. For whatever reason there is this policy that because Rooney is captain he had to play. We sold RVP, in my opinion the wrong forward to sell and now we have Wayne damaging the entire team.
LVG knows that if he drops or strips Rooney of the captaincy there will be a media storm as he is the countries golden boy so is bottling it hoping Wayne turns it round.
I've not liked him since the contract situation years ago and now his performances are holding the entire team back. I get so angry watching this as to me at least it seems to obvious and I can't fathom how the management aren't doing something about it.
The sooner Rooney is out the club the better it will be for all parties. He'll probably get one mega payday in the MLS.
RVP was our best pure number 9. Mata is our best 10. For whatever reason there is this policy that because Rooney is captain he had to play. We sold RVP, in my opinion the wrong forward to sell and now we have Wayne damaging the entire team.
LVG knows that if he drops or strips Rooney of the captaincy there will be a media storm as he is the countries golden boy so is bottling it hoping Wayne turns it round.
I've not liked him since the contract situation years ago and now his performances are holding the entire team back. I get so angry watching this as to me at least it seems to obvious and I can't fathom how the management aren't doing something about it.
The sooner Rooney is out the club the better it will be for all parties. He'll probably get one mega payday in the MLS.
Respectfully, I disagree. Although you're absolutely right he was better yesterday than against Villa. As a Utd centre forward, he should have taken some of those chances. That said, my issue with him is his general movement which results in our inability to create. He's got to give the guys behind him a chance by creating space. Something Costa (I know they've started poorly) does extremely well.
I just think it's the one position on the pitch that Utd need top level - and we don't have it in Rooney. For all I disagreed with SAF over the last years, he could see Rooney fading. His current performances have been there to see for a while.
His game was nowhere near 'decent enough'. He is a lead striker for one of the biggest clubs in the world, I know you love him beyond measure but this was not a satisfactory performance at all.
At whose cost and if his overall play and passing remains as shit as it is won't he actually do more harm to team's approach play? It's a pity that we have put ourselves in a position where we are completely reliant on him but imo he should be dropped and only allowed back in when he has proven himself in training and cameos - like every other player. He was polluting the media with his "I can score 25 goals if I play 9" garbage well so far he has proven that scoring ten will be a tough ask. What message are sending to the rest of the squad if merit applies to everyone else bar him?
Yep.
Especially coming off the back of 9 league games without a goal and 1 away goal in the league for about 18 months. He wasn't as atrocious as he was against Villa, but he still wasn't good enough.
This might have been all right by Sunderland standards. In no way this was anywhere near 'decent enough' for a player who's a supposed leader for Manchester United. Not like this was one off average performance, he plays like that all the time recently.
He was very poor. He had one straightforward chance where he should have scored and 2 half chances where you'd expect the goalkeeper to make a good save. Out of those 3 chances he had a very poor attempt at a chip (which was basically a pass back) and failed to get any other shot away. Most mid table centre forwards would have scored yesterday, world class strikers would expect to score a couple (the chance where he tried to cut back onto his right foot but did so in a sluggish, easy to read way was particularly poor - a simple Cruyff turn would have had the defender on his arse and created a golden opportunity).
As he's undroppable we need to move him to the right hand side, where he isn't a focal point of our attack and his poor touch and passing aren't as big of an issue. Even if it means playing Mata or Depay as a false 9 it would be a big improvement.
As he's undroppable we need to move him to the right hand side, where he isn't a focal point of our attack and his poor touch and passing aren't as big of an issue. Even if it means playing Mata or Depay as a false 9 it would be a big improvement.
Are you talking about the chance he created for himself in the closing minutes? That wasn't even close to "straightforward" when he first received the ball.
The other two chances he definitely should have done better but you're exaggerating if you think a mid-table centre forward would have scored either of them. For example, Gomis missed an easier finish than any of Rooney's when he (similarly) did brilliantly to create a chance in the first place then clipped the post.
The one chance Gomis did score from was more clear-cut than any opportunity Rooney had. Ditto Ayew's header for their opener.
Ultimately, the service to our strikers has been consistently abysmal for over 12 months now. Falcao and RvP had to move on because their all-round game was so bad but there's a good reason two such prolific strikers had such a terrible goal return last seson.
Rooney hasn't helped himself by starting the season in very poor form but has been gradually improving and was nowher near as shite yesterday as you make out.
He did very well to create the chance but he let himself down with the (lack of) finish, the finish was the most straightforward part. All his chances yesterday looked to me like he has no confidence to take any shots on his left foot.
Yeah, agreed. It was the hesitation that killed him. Still, for all the posession we had that's a fairly paltry service he got. A long-running theme under Van Gaal.
Yeah he was poor, which is sadly becoming the standard now.
Hoping he turns up finally for the next league game.
This is a good point. I forget who it was but I remember somebody saying that they don't necessarily see Rooney as a Giggs or a Scholes and playing until their late 30's as the football early in his career will catch up with him. He was after all a regular with club and country at the age of 17.
Maybe that has started earlier than we anticipated. What we're getting from him at the moment is not good enough by a long way though. The way Williams caught up with him yesterday was alarming. He's a decent defender but not lightning quick. Rooney is just not sharp enough and for some reason does not get his shots away when he should.
The chance he created for himself was straightforward. Not when he received the ball but once the 1 on 1 chance presented itself a couple of yards ahead of the last defender should be simple for any centre forward.
The chance Gomes had was a more difficult chance than putting away the 1v1, due to the more narrow angle. Likewise Gomes' other chance resulted in the width of the goalpost away from scoring - at least if Rooney was getting his shots away and forcing great saves or being 3-4 inches away you could see progress and argue he's being unlucky.
You can talk about shite service but Mata seemed to score ok with 1 decent chance. We aren't going to get 6-7 golden opportunities away at a top 8 team, which is why the difference between Rooney putting us 2-0 up or level at 2-2 is a huge deal.
We can't just keep saying "well it was good chance but not a great one", these chances are ones that you still need to score 1/3 or 1/4. This is before we even talk about top strikers who create and score goals every 4-5 games out of nothing. In terms of chance creation I'd have taken 2 great chances and maybe 3 decent chances at the start of the game.
Naturally this is before even talking about the decent counter attacking opportunity that turned into us conceding because of his horrendous touch, which has been a theme of the season so far. Potentially good opportunities breaking down due to poor touches, poor passing or generally bad play.
Well, no. But we should expect the more/better chances of the two teams when we have so much more of the ball. The fact we didn't is the big issue here and has feck all to do with Rooney.
Don't strikers also have a role to play in chance creation with their movement and touch?
They do. And Rooney's movement and touch was fine against Swansea. In contrast to, say, his performance against Villa.
Of course it has something to do with Rooney. Just like their chance creation had a lot to do with Ayew and Gomes. You have a centre forward that has no real movement, can't control a ball sent in to him at pace and can't finish and you are probably going to struggle to create chances and score goals.
As I said before if he does a simple Cruyff turn he turns a chance that we are saying is a "half chance" into a great chance. Instead he tries a slow, laborious outside of his boot turn and the defender comfortably deals with it. He finds himself in a 1v1 situation and another terrible bit of control and the defender comfortably gets back.
The first chance might put us 2-0 up and then it's game over, we keep the ball and see out the 3 points. The second chance puts us at 2-2 and they start to get nervous.
The difference between us and Swansea yesterday was that they finished 2 of their 3 or 4 chances, we scored 1 of our 3 or 4 chances. Now the amount of money we pay our striker compared to them I'd expect our chance conversion to be higher than Swansea's. This has been a consistent feature throughout the season: Rooney should be on 2 or 3 PL goals for the season which probably gives us another 1-3 points.
I don't think that's up for debate Pogue going by yesterday's game. I think majority of people are pissed because he missed two to three big goal scoring opportunities. It's his performance in front of goal which was shit rathar then his overall gameplay. But at the end of the day strikers job is to finish the chances off and he failed spectacularly at that yesterday.
Two good opportunities yesterday and didn't even manage to get a shot away on either occasion, his best days are long gone and if we are relying on him as our main striker we are in big trouble. Best position for him would be in number ten role but we haven't got any alternative but to play him up front.
If all Rooney has to do to be considered good or decent is be better than he was against Villa then standards really have dropped.
just finished watching the game. How on earth this player play for us. Absolute shambles. Moyes you did really well, thanks a lot
Not only that, how is he earning the sort of money he is to play like that for us!?
he played with RVP for 3 years, as a pair their chemistry was zero. Now the team has to be rejigged to get the most out of him
Everyobdy's fault but his. Plays at nr. 10, is crap, play him as a striker.
Plays as a striker, is crap, play him as nr. 10.
can you imagine we would have 6 other forwards which are on par or better than him for that wages?
From top of my head: Gomis, Wilson, Berahino, Jayrod, Austin, Vardy..
But he doesn't have to make Rooney Captain, and play him every game. Benching him (regardless of his contract) is not hard. I want LVG to do well, but he needs to get over his Rooney shaped blind spot.
I wish
Start Martial every game and bench Rooney. Yes, he is 19 and will be inconsistent, but consider this about Rooney nowadays:
- Crap unreliable first touch that ruins our attack or gives away the ball leading to counters for opponents to score goals from? Check.
- Inconsistent form? Check.
- Too slow to react, playing the game as if he's surrounded by a vaccuum bubble that's tagged "ten seconds behind real life time"? Check.
- No shots on target in the premier league? Check.
So how could any professional premier division footballer do any worse? At least this guy has pace on him/.
- Crap unreliable first touch that ruins our attack or gives away the ball leading to counters for opponents to score goals from? Check.
- Inconsistent form? Check.
- Too slow to react, playing the game as if he's surrounded by a vaccuum bubble that's tagged "ten seconds behind real life time"? Check.
- No shots on target in the premier league? Check.
So how could any professional premier division footballer do any worse? At least this guy has pace on him/.
No service? Gomis was playing in a counter attacking team, alone and isolated, he looked more dangerous everytime he touches the ball, created a goal out of a 50/50 chance at best.
Do you watch aguero's goal? How many things he has to do before ge scores? He did all that, and that my friend is what world class striker does.
If we're judging things on easy chances kevin phillips would have been world class, it's the slim chances converted that makes the difference between pub player and world class player
Do you watch aguero's goal? How many things he has to do before ge scores? He did all that, and that my friend is what world class striker does.
If we're judging things on easy chances kevin phillips would have been world class, it's the slim chances converted that makes the difference between pub player and world class player
And he's also captain and no captain would/should/could allow his team to lose the way we did, he should have scored at least 2 of his chance, its absolutely ridiculous that there are people still backing this guy and expect him to come good. He is finished at top level and not only the fans but LVG and himself should realise this.
He was 1 on 1 with keeper and should have been 1 on 1 with for the his other chance, they don't get better than that, let's face it a WC striker would have buried those, name me a WC striker who wouldn't.
I've seen Aguero miss quite a few easy chances over the last 2 or 3 games. But City create so many that he tends to slot one eventually.
Seems we have a Rooney replacement. If he underperforms now, we have a player who will be itching to replace him.
Unless of course we're playing a formation with both players...Rooney back at #10, which I'd prefer.
Unless of course we're playing a formation with both players...Rooney back at #10, which I'd prefer.
What has been better about Rooney's all round game?
- Status