That's just low standards.
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That's just low standards.
It is low standards. It's the result of us having a poor midfield for years.
I think today's midfielders, playing in a three, get away with murder anyway. Keane was playing in a two man midfield, with big defensive responsibilities and could still score over 10. The two 8's(or whatever you want to call them) should be weighing in with a real good amount of goals and/or assists. As well as providing all the finer points of being a midfielder. That to me would constitute playing well.
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And that is the bar to which we should be holding Rooney to. Not "being tidy in possession" and "being able to string passes together".
We have played 2 pretty sub par teams in Russia and Wales where he was given all the time and space he wanted to pick out passes. The true test will come when he comes against opponents who pressure him and don't let England dominate possession. I think we will see him struggle badly in those situations.
I agree but I think that there was already a true test and Rooney didn't deliver the goods. That was the most important game of last season when a win vs Wham would have almost guaranteed a CL place.
Wham have been the only quality opposition against which he's played in midfield so far and they aren't exactly a top team with top midfielders.
Of course, Rooney deserves a chance to show that he can be useful against a top opposition as well. I think that Mou will give him that chance. I'm not optimistic about his future as a regular midfielder at United though if United really want to tin big titles.
After England played Russia, most people who said Rooney played well because Russia's midfield are wank (which is true) deemed that he will struggle against Wales as they pressed high. But yesterday I see Rooney managed to get passed this high pressing multiple times, from Allen and Ramsey.
Yes, we can see how he deals with better team when the time comes but is it to hard for some to say he has done well for this two games?
And as i said in previous post, as long as we don't sign new midfielder, he is one of the best options we have in midfield. Regarding the West Ham game, most of our problems arised from Herrera's constant fouling. From that game I made up my mind that He is not gonna be better than Rooney in midfield.
The thing is, we're Manchester United. We shouldn't have to wait for a player to gradually reinvent himself so he can continue to be shoe horned into the starting side. We should be actively seeking a much more capable midfielder, of the elk of Modric and Iniesta to play in the role.
If we're happy with seasons like the last 3 - scrapping it out for 4th and most likely missing out, Rooney in midfield would be perfect. If we want to challenge for the title and, looking foward, the Champions League, Rooney should be no where near our starting midfield. His wages are too great for him to be a bench option and he is no longer good upfront.
He was fairly quiet in the first half yesterday, when Wales pressed. He came into the game much more when Wales sat back and allowed him room to do so. He will not get these allowances in the Premier League. People cling onto performances against Crystal Palace (a shite side) and Bournemouth (a dead game). One poster even brought up TWO outstanding performances in the position over the last TWO seasons. When pressed, we've seen that Rooney does very little. A la second half against Everton, Leicester, West Ham and first half against Wales yesterday. The bending of logic is insanse.
Contrary to what many will label me, I'm not a Rooney hater. First and foremost I am a Manchester United fan. I want to see us challenge for titles. We need to be much more ruthless to do so and not allow for the shoe horning in of players out of sentiment and hope. History has told us Rooney struggles in midfield (last season), he struggles when a team is built around him (early this season) and he struggles to perform consistently throughout a season (the past 5 seasons).
Unless I am not seeing it, England still lack a connection between midfield and forwards. I honestly don't see what he is doing that is so extra ordinary that needs praising.
Superb post.
First off, very mature reply, good man. There are many many more midfielders better than Rooney apart from the ones you mentioned. You make it sound like he is in a tier immediately below them which is nonsense. There are so many CM's in the premier league alone that is better than Rooney.
can somebody please post the passing map of rooney vs wales ... or if possible the website name wer i can find one 
edit: got one
edit: got one
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He couldn't deal with the pressure against West Ham and Norwich.
Rooney did not play in midfield against Norwich. He had to play upfront due to Rashford being rested and Martial picking up an injury in the warmup before the game.
Also please watch the West Ham game back. He was the only midfielder with a bit of composure. He also stayed on his feet and did not foul every five minutes like Ander.
If you remember LVG has to sub Schneiderlin at half time because he was so poor and Carrick his replacement didn't fare much better.
I'll watch the game later on before I agree/disagree with this.
that puts a different spin on things. Id say its refreshing that he is at least keeping possession bettercan somebody please post the passing map of rooney vs wales ... or if possible the website name wer i can find one
edit: got one
Again, those players are not at United. Buy them 1st then we can have 'mature' discussion on who should play in midfield.
can somebody please post the passing map of rooney vs wales ... or if possible the website name wer i can find one
edit: got one
The big problem is that playing Rooney in midfield means the striker will see little of the ball. For whatever reason he just doesn't pass into the strikers feet. The above passing map confirms this again.
It'd be interesting to see it compared to other top midfielders. Or indeed Joe Allens.
To be honest, I think he's been average for England in these two games. Usually when I say someone's average it has a bias towards the negativity. But here, it's more of a positive. He has surpassed my expectations. He's certainly not been trash, looking out of place. More, he's looked like a competent midfield who's had a couple of steady game, without actually shining all that much.
can somebody please post the passing map of rooney vs wales ... or if possible the website name wer i can find one
edit: got one
That's a lot of crab passes
Funny thing is that Rooney's pass to Sturridge between two Wales players kick-started the last attack when England scored. So much for seeing little of the ball...
Also he is pretty much the only player that is capable of producing that kind of pass he did for Alli, a long one over the top of the defence, when Alli could not control it well and if he did, it could have been 1-on-1. Any midfield needs a player that has a long-range pass, it's important to shift the tempo and sides.
Also he is pretty much the only player that is capable of producing that kind of pass he did for Alli, a long one over the top of the defence, when Alli could not control it well and if he did, it could have been 1-on-1. Any midfield needs a player that has a long-range pass, it's important to shift the tempo and sides.
First of all there is a difference between crediting his performance and wanting him to stay at Manchester United. I want both, and understandably some people don't want the latter as they think he is no longer an important influence on the team or for whatever reason. I was talking about the posters who will only criticize him after a good performance. Why must every England performance of his in the midfield be "oh he was offered space, if he wasn't offered space he'd have sucked"? If you see a player has a good game then just say he has.
I don't agree with what you have to say about Rooney and people clinging to performances against shite opposition. I find that a very weak argument. A good performance is a good performance.
I'm not going to write about 'the potential midfield general' or anything, but rather about 'Wayne Rooney's performances'. The ones in this tournament.
I always follow United players for their teams, and while I was disappointed in Martial and De Gea and Fellaini did as expected, I was positively surprised by Rooney in the first game. I thought England commanded most of the game and Rooney was the one keeping them ticking. So much so taht the second game, I tried pretending (to myself) that Rooney was some nondescript player (NDP) for another quite good team (QGT), like, say, Portugal, Belgium or Croatia.
I noticed two things. One: This QGT had very good control of the defence and midfield, they got up into the last third repeatedly, and they produced a few ok chances. Slightly less than croatia. More than portugal and easily more than belgium. This was a bit surprising, as the movement and precision of the three up top where nowhere near the quality of attackers on said teams. Also, Alli was losing most duels, even if he was very mobile, and often failed to position himself in space to receive the ball. Dier was almost stationary, accessible, but mere sideways in his passing. Second: Almost the entire flow of the team was down to the constant mobility and availability of NDP, and of his high level of precision in passes, and variation. Also, the few times someone could pick a run with a through ball, it was mostly him. Also, the few chances (cahills header, smalling almost connecting at five yards mostly arrived from his feet). A few glaring mistakes, but generelly very few misses. A few brilliant moves, but not too many. It struck me that this very much resembled what Modric did for Croatia that had made me think 'this is some of the best we have in the Euros so far'. Even if he had better options around him in Srna, Rakitic and Perisic, and a more flexible Mandzucic up top. Most of what he does isn't fantastic, you just think 'typical Modric making it look so easy'. Which is correct.
It suddenly struck me that both England and Rooney are almost never regarded outside of this particular over-hype story where they are constantly (also by me) expected to disappoint because they are expected to be better.
To me, Rooney has been twice MoM for a team with four points in two games after having been clearly the better team in both of them. Who in a Euro isn't satisfied with that? You know who.
I always follow United players for their teams, and while I was disappointed in Martial and De Gea and Fellaini did as expected, I was positively surprised by Rooney in the first game. I thought England commanded most of the game and Rooney was the one keeping them ticking. So much so taht the second game, I tried pretending (to myself) that Rooney was some nondescript player (NDP) for another quite good team (QGT), like, say, Portugal, Belgium or Croatia.
I noticed two things. One: This QGT had very good control of the defence and midfield, they got up into the last third repeatedly, and they produced a few ok chances. Slightly less than croatia. More than portugal and easily more than belgium. This was a bit surprising, as the movement and precision of the three up top where nowhere near the quality of attackers on said teams. Also, Alli was losing most duels, even if he was very mobile, and often failed to position himself in space to receive the ball. Dier was almost stationary, accessible, but mere sideways in his passing. Second: Almost the entire flow of the team was down to the constant mobility and availability of NDP, and of his high level of precision in passes, and variation. Also, the few times someone could pick a run with a through ball, it was mostly him. Also, the few chances (cahills header, smalling almost connecting at five yards mostly arrived from his feet). A few glaring mistakes, but generelly very few misses. A few brilliant moves, but not too many. It struck me that this very much resembled what Modric did for Croatia that had made me think 'this is some of the best we have in the Euros so far'. Even if he had better options around him in Srna, Rakitic and Perisic, and a more flexible Mandzucic up top. Most of what he does isn't fantastic, you just think 'typical Modric making it look so easy'. Which is correct.
It suddenly struck me that both England and Rooney are almost never regarded outside of this particular over-hype story where they are constantly (also by me) expected to disappoint because they are expected to be better.
To me, Rooney has been twice MoM for a team with four points in two games after having been clearly the better team in both of them. Who in a Euro isn't satisfied with that? You know who.
Was excellent against Wales, easily the best player on the pitch. This bodes well for his confidence leading to the end of the Euro's and then working with Mourinho, I suspect the more confidence he has the faster he will hit the ground running for us next season. I think he can realistically put up 15/15+ in the AM/SS role playing with the form he has shown in the last three months.
I think a lot of people here believe in some sort of 'player vacuum' i.e. if Rooney is sold/benched/hit by a bus then someone amazing will step into his place and lead us into glory.
It's a little naive to be honest, and it should always be competition that dictates who's on the pitch rather than packing players we don't like to China. Rooney has been good for the last few games which frightens people, because a good Rooney will get game time. If any amazing players were being benched for Rooney then that would be a travesty but currently, such a situation could not be further away from the truth.
It's a little naive to be honest, and it should always be competition that dictates who's on the pitch rather than packing players we don't like to China. Rooney has been good for the last few games which frightens people, because a good Rooney will get game time. If any amazing players were being benched for Rooney then that would be a travesty but currently, such a situation could not be further away from the truth.
This. As much as I loath Van Gaal's rimming Rooney's arse I still find time to be honest and acknowledge his good/great games. Imho opinion LVG's hero worshipping was a bad influence, Rooney needs to be kept on the edge inorder to perform yet Van Gaal and Moyes pampered him and allowed him to let himself go.
Just seen thiscan somebody please post the passing map of rooney vs wales ... or if possible the website name wer i can find one
edit: got one
ridiculous. Relentless sideward passing and (shock horror) the diagonal out wide!Just seen this
8/10 mate. Midfield general.
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There are so many CM's better than Rooney available. Your making it sound like we have a transfer ban. Its not like we need to sign Modric to see an improvement. The fact that they are not at United is irrelevant, it's during the transfer market, its the time to discuss transfers.
Woah, crabs everywhere!
Glad that Rooney is finest English player on Euro so far. Proud.
Glad that Rooney is finest English player on Euro so far. Proud.
Modric makes a lot off passes to his rb/rw...
Rooney was far poorer than Herrera on the first half of last season. In fact, he might have been poorer than any regular player I have ever seen in a United shirt, bar Falcao.
On the second half, Rooney was better, especially on that spell at the beginning of year and then on the last few matches.
Herrera for Bilbao and on his first season here has been a better midfielder than Rooney has ever been. Or will ever be.
Yep let's sign one of the best CMs in the league like we did last year with Schneiderlin...oh wait Rooney has greatly outperformed him in midfield even when most people considered schneiderlin one of the best in the league. Rooney has quickly become one of the most underrated players in the world.
Pretty much agree. Think Rooney will be used as one of the main midfield options. But Jose will add a tackling midfielder. Matic? not sure. His teams are about power.
Rooney was out worst outfield player in the first half of the season(Greatly improved in the second).
He hardly played at midfield this season. If we are going to slate Morgan over his season perfomances ,shouldn't we judge Rooney too over his entire season perfomances too?
Chelsea will not sell him to us.
Just the lazy English media linking us heavily to Chelsea players just like we were heavily linked with all Dutch players that could kick a ball under Van Gaal.
Thats why I raised a question. But Mourinho will want a tackling midfielder. As for Rooney, he still is a quality player. I think he will be a very good option for us.
So cos Schneiderlin had a bad season means not to buy anyone in CM. Yeah good logic there.
Yeah, never sign a midfielder again.
Why? Because Schneiderlin.
Why? Because Schneiderlin.
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