And has been out on the left wing.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
And has been out on the left wing.
Martial has been played on the wing and in that time has still created chances for others, the two at the weekend, the ball to Lingard against City etc. And when played as a striker he got some goals.
Roooney doesn't get chances when played as a striker and barely creates anything for anyone else when he was a 10 or out wide. If we don't create any chances then Rooney has to take some responsibility for that, his job isn't to stand there and wait for chances to drop at his feet. He should create chances for himself and others, he's the best paid player in the entire league.
You say that as though players in the same position at our rival clubs haven't been scoring goals either.
FFS.
Rooney - given his status, earnings & reputation - is supposed to be a difference-maker. These days when he's upfront for United or England, whether the opposition is Scunthorpe or Spain, you KNOW that he's not going to make the difference and you know that it'll be a boring watch. Practically none of this is to do with van Gaal or Hodgson or Moyes or Capello or whoever; it's not teenagers in their first PL season who are the problem; it's Rooney and his inability to be a game-changer. The most famous name in British football, the 5th-highest-paid player in the world, yet he can't even be relied upon to shine against the likes of Middlesborough or Crystal Palace; absolutely damning.
Rooney - given his status, earnings & reputation - is supposed to be a difference-maker. These days when he's upfront for United or England, whether the opposition is Scunthorpe or Spain, you KNOW that he's not going to make the difference and you know that it'll be a boring watch. Practically none of this is to do with van Gaal or Hodgson or Moyes or Capello or whoever; it's not teenagers in their first PL season who are the problem; it's Rooney and his inability to be a game-changer. The most famous name in British football, the 5th-highest-paid player in the world, yet he can't even be relied upon to shine against the likes of Middlesborough or Crystal Palace; absolutely damning.
You're only making points that have been made a million time before. Rooney's been shit. Well, you don't say. Posting a gif of him missing a couple of chances as evidence that he's been getting enough chances is completely glossing over the real issue here. We're not making enough chances for Rooney, or anyone else.
Again, with the repetition.
It's almost as though people are arguing against cases that haven't been made. Can you find a single post from this thread at any point in the last few weeks, that has anything positive to say about Rooney's performances? This place never agrees on anything but I reckon we've got as close to 100% consensus as we'll ever get that Rooney has been playing nowhere near well enough and does not deserve to start. So why people feel the need to keep pointing this out?
And he doesn't create chances for himself or anyone else. Entire games go by where nothing of note happens involving Rooney and it's not even unusual or surprising now. If our attack isn't creating chances then Rooney is part of the reason why, he's the only attacker playing every minute of every game. He isn't paid what he is to stand on the penalty spot and wait for chances to drop at his feet.
Only part, though. If the best we can hope for is part-solving a problem, then we're doomed regardless.
We don't create many chances both because of the system and Rooney's ineptness as a No 9 and a No 10.
Chances do not involve only a creative play from team-mates but also your movement, your awareness, your touch, your explosiviness, your close control, etc. I'm sure if we play Ronaldo up front, the team will create much more chances. Rooney's inability to keep the ball up in tight situations massively contributes to our average creativity (Memphis is another culprit here, he's been a bit brainless).
Rooney used to assist a lot of goals in previous seasons. What has happened to his creativity? How many assists has he made this year? He's virtually non-existing as a creative force this season. Most strikers in the league not only outscore him but create more chances as well.
I'm afraid that if we don't find a solution to Rooney's poor form, we'll fnish below Liverpool. May sound crazy, but it will happen, IMO.
Chances do not involve only a creative play from team-mates but also your movement, your awareness, your touch, your explosiviness, your close control, etc. I'm sure if we play Ronaldo up front, the team will create much more chances. Rooney's inability to keep the ball up in tight situations massively contributes to our average creativity (Memphis is another culprit here, he's been a bit brainless).
Rooney used to assist a lot of goals in previous seasons. What has happened to his creativity? How many assists has he made this year? He's virtually non-existing as a creative force this season. Most strikers in the league not only outscore him but create more chances as well.
I'm afraid that if we don't find a solution to Rooney's poor form, we'll fnish below Liverpool. May sound crazy, but it will happen, IMO.
Got a 7 rating in The Sun newspaper 
Watch Aguero's performance v QPR last season to see what a #9 can do when you're not creating chances.
Maybe it's our fault for expecting too much from a has been,...in which case, he should be benched and Martial should be playing there, who does have a bit of magic.
Rooney's never created very many goals as a 9. His asssists have come in seasons when he's played deeper. Whenever he's played up top we've been reliant on other players to create. Which isn't happening this season and will only get worse when other managers follow Pardew's example in creating a game plan to specifically neutralise Martial.
I agree that he doesn't assist many goals when playing as a main striker but he played several games in a deeper role (before Everton) and he was the same in terms of creativity.
I know and it all comes back to him playing really badly. I'm just making the point that him playing badly, as a number 9, is not the most important factor in us creating the second fewest number of chances in the league.
Chances created per 90 minutes played
Mata - 2 Fellaini - 1.37 Herrera - 1.31 Rooney - 1.0
Mata - 2 Fellaini - 1.37 Herrera - 1.31 Rooney - 1.0
Martial played a wonderful pass to him at the weekend, which should have been taken. Fair enough, we don't create enough chances, but when that chance did come vs Palace, Rooney screwed it up.
Our only chance. In 90 minutes. Against Crystal Palace. That's horrendous and has very little to do with Rooney.
If anything, that chance proved that he is at least still capable of finding a bit of space and making a well-timed run. Which is not to forgive the miss but does go against this idea that his lack of movement is a key factor in our toothlessness.
It's not poor Wayne's fault its the service. There were about 3 chances away to Swansea as well that he should have done better with.
the thing is with the Wolfsburg one................not only does martial offer goals.......he offers assists like that...running the channels and beating man. something else rooney can not do
Ya, I saw that as well, it actually made me angry, literally angry standing there watching the program when that chimp Burt dismissed the notion of Rooney being anything but great. Thank god the guy next to him actually piped up and confronted him on it.
Rather it was our only chance in 90 minutes or not, it's a chance that Giroud, Martial(if on the other foot), Aguero, Bony, Kane ect will all take 99% of the time. We're struggling to create chances, so what we do create obviously must be taken. There's without a doubt more problems with the team than just Rooney though, I agree.
Exasperation? It's an utterly farcical and surreal situation that United, England & the fans find themselves in, truly "the emperor's new clothes" stuff.
I agree that Rooney is not the only reason we don't create enough chances; I think Van Gaal's defensive style of possession football is conditioning the players to play without urgency and intent, but Rooney being so deep constantly, when he's deployed as a 9, and not being able to present himself in the final third without either losing control of the ball or failing to run off the shoulder for Martial, Schweinsteiger, Herrera and Mata to use him as real focal point is a massive problem that congests all our play.
The other problem we have is that we don't have any width on the right. Darmian isn't cutting it for me. Valencia should be starting to complement Mata.
He recently wrote an article that England could be better off without Rooney starting.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つTake my energy, Jason Burt ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
That's just flat out untrue. There's not a striker in the league with 99% chance conversion. Even good chances like that one. I remember in that game where Aguero scored 4 goals (or was it 5?) he missed a handful of equally presentable chances, before the goals started raining in.
All of the criticism of Rooney for his poor touch, passing and all-round play is completely fair. Hanging him out to try for missing chances is really missing the point though.
It's so rare for him to get a decent chance these days that it's almost inevitable he'll faff it up. Even the most lethal striker needs regular chances to get into any rhythm in front of goal. Harry Kane being a good example, missing chance after chance before finally starting to score regularly.
Rooney's proven himself capable of scoring in the very rare game when we're creating a reasonable amount of chances (e.g. CL qualifiers and Ispwich game) but when he's reduced to one presentable chance every 90 minutes then there's clearly a serious issue in what's going on behind him. The rest of his game might be stinking the place out but there's every chance his finishing ability will be the last to go. It's absolutely deluded to expect any striker to convert every chance he gets (or even 99% of them)
Because people are offering a different opinion? Erm.. Nope. Wrong answer.
So are people supposed to only post in this thread when something changes, ie when he plays well?
Also, I don't think many people are actually claiming that we are playing good football? They're just not being half as hysterical about it as you are.
There's a bunch of people coming up with reasons for us being shite to watch that exonerate Van Gaal's role in what is being served up. With others thinking the buck stops with the manager. Hence there's a lot of debate about why we're not scoring and whether it will turn around or not.
Similar discussion with Rooney. There's plenty of room for discussion about why he's playing badly and whether he will turn things round. Repeatedly pointing that he's not been playing well enough is the definition of stating the bleeding obvious.
You've a strange definition of hysterical fwiw but meh, to each his own.
He's absolutely right.
Fair enough, 99% is overblown, but that chance was put on a plate for him. Any striker worth his salt would have made a lot better of that. He didn't even test the keeper ffs. As for his run, it means nothing if you can barely catch up with the ball.
For every big chance in which Rooney has taken a shot this season, there's been another chance where he has somehow contrived to fail to shoot, starting with the winning goal against Spurs, and continuing more recently with big opportunities against Everton when Martial put him through (he may have got a slight touch on this one), and at Palace when Martial put him through. There was another big chance a few months back when he took so long to shoot that a defender got back to tackle him but I can't recall which game it was off the top of my head.
Then there's the dangerous crosses that he hasn't been close enough to get a touch to. Januzaj put in a super cross in the first few mins of the home CL qualifier but Rooney was asleep.
It all adds up.
When I first started going to Old Trafford, Frank Stapleton was our main striker. He was astonishingly good at headers but so slow that he rarely got chances to score with his feet. Each season, having played 42 league games, he would finish with around 13 goals. It is much easier to create chances for fast players or those who make super runs in the box than slow forwards.
Last edited:
I think everyone would agree our chances created is very low; however the centre forward is not just key to converting chances, but also in building up our play and being in the right areas to convert chances. I think this is the biggest area in which Rooney is negatively effecting us at the moment. If we completely ignore his poor shooting, how many times per game does the following occur:
- A move breaks down due to a poor Rooney first touch;
- A move breaks down due to a poor Rooney pass;
- Rooney is static and man marked, resulting in no forward option, so we pass the ball backwards;
- A ball is played into Rooney's path but his tortoise speed of pace and acceleration results in a simple interception; or
- Rooney is far too deep meaning there is no options in the box (average position vs Palace in line with Herrera)
Rooney isn't the only problem - but how many teams would create an abundance of chances with 10 men? This is before even discussing the "wonder goal" category where a 30 yard effort or great piece of skill creates a goal out of nothing - the likes of Coutinho have scored 3-4 of these already this season and a United centre forward should be up there also.
Last edited:
My point in a nut-shell. You mention a half-chance he missed against Everton, then the next one you can think of was "a few months back".
Rooney's played almost every minute of every game up front. He should have missed nearly a dozen decent chances by now (and scored the same amount)
In the first half yesterday, his average position was deeper than Herrera. Granted we don't create a lot of chances, but imo the way a striker plays is a fundamental part of creating chances. How can a team create many chances, if the person who should be leading the line and drawing CBs out of position by stretching them, is deepe than his No 10?
Fair enough that we don't create chances, and a lot of the blame has to go in van Gaal's direction for playing tumescent possession football with no aim to penetrate, but even if Rooney isn't getting the ball in threatening positions, he needs to take most of the blame for that himself. A good striker is crucial to creating chances by offering the following:
1) The burst of pace to get behind the defence and receive the ball with space ahead of him.
2) The ability to receive the ball and create passing combinations or turn his man and run at the goal using one or two touches
3) The patience and discipline to stay forward and harry defences, constantly looking for the crucial opening
4) The pace and skill to beat a man in tight spaces and get the shot away
5) The eye for a killer pass to create for his team mates
Those five things are completely torn out of Rooney's current playbook. He does the opposite of this most of the time and it's no wonder we're not creating chances. Even if we had the most creative team in history behind him, he wouldn't be producing the goods because his first touch and pace is completely gone, and he can't play others through either. As for our wingers, I'm sure if you switched Benzema out with some average pub team player, Ronaldo's numbers would fall off a cliff as well. A striker, by virtue of his position on the pitch, is bound to be involved in most of a team's attacking moves, and if that player messes up the simplest things like trapping a football or playing a quick, simple pass on the counter, it's very difficult for the whole team to finish attacks.
The lack of a threat he poses also makes it extremely easy to take him out of the game, giving the opposition more opportunities to safely shift some of their focus onto our other players and neutralize them too. When a true top-level striker like Agüero or Lewandowski is on his game, you need to put two players on him if you want a snowball's chance in hell of keeping him quiet, giving other players a more space to inflict the damage. Pardew admitted that Martial was the man they wanted to mark out of the game and Rooney still did sweet feck all. When he's playing like he is now, you might as well not mark him, because just allowing him time on the ball is an equally effective way of ruining our attacks as marking him out of the game is.
The biggest mystery is that we have this anti-striker sucking like a black hole every week while a player that can actually do all the five things listed above is being played out of position, away from the position where he's most likely to win us games. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone at the club except Wayne Rooney himself.
1) The burst of pace to get behind the defence and receive the ball with space ahead of him.
2) The ability to receive the ball and create passing combinations or turn his man and run at the goal using one or two touches
3) The patience and discipline to stay forward and harry defences, constantly looking for the crucial opening
4) The pace and skill to beat a man in tight spaces and get the shot away
5) The eye for a killer pass to create for his team mates
Those five things are completely torn out of Rooney's current playbook. He does the opposite of this most of the time and it's no wonder we're not creating chances. Even if we had the most creative team in history behind him, he wouldn't be producing the goods because his first touch and pace is completely gone, and he can't play others through either. As for our wingers, I'm sure if you switched Benzema out with some average pub team player, Ronaldo's numbers would fall off a cliff as well. A striker, by virtue of his position on the pitch, is bound to be involved in most of a team's attacking moves, and if that player messes up the simplest things like trapping a football or playing a quick, simple pass on the counter, it's very difficult for the whole team to finish attacks.
The lack of a threat he poses also makes it extremely easy to take him out of the game, giving the opposition more opportunities to safely shift some of their focus onto our other players and neutralize them too. When a true top-level striker like Agüero or Lewandowski is on his game, you need to put two players on him if you want a snowball's chance in hell of keeping him quiet, giving other players a more space to inflict the damage. Pardew admitted that Martial was the man they wanted to mark out of the game and Rooney still did sweet feck all. When he's playing like he is now, you might as well not mark him, because just allowing him time on the ball is an equally effective way of ruining our attacks as marking him out of the game is.
The biggest mystery is that we have this anti-striker sucking like a black hole every week while a player that can actually do all the five things listed above is being played out of position, away from the position where he's most likely to win us games. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone at the club except Wayne Rooney himself.
That's one of the ways a striker can draw CBs out of position. By coming deep. The theory being that other players pour forwards to exploit the space he's vacated.
Which is not to say that a quicker, more dynamic striker wouldn't have kept Palace's back four a bit more honest but the lack of anyone getting forwards when Rooney came deep is indicative of our malaise under Van Gaal.
With his movement it's not easy to get any chances to be fair. Service should be better but Martial has somehow managed to have more chances in his very short time here than Rooney has had for the last year. Concidence?
Huh?
He has scored 5 goals and has missed 4-5 good chances at least (some due to brilliant saves like Cech v Arsenal, it wasn't a good chance at all yet he did brilliantly to make a turn and take a shot). Rooney has barely been in a position where he could take a shot 10 times all season.
Strikers need to be mobile, capable of collecting the all and running with it or making runs to pick up passes. Rooney has done none of these things. He takes three touches to control the ball, it's not acceptable at this level.
- Status