[Barca84]

He recently wrote an article that England could be better off without Rooney starting.

Yep. And it's worth pointing stuff like this out to those who still think that Rooney is undroppable for club and country and that the media don't see the problem.

A year ago there was virtually nobody in the media questioning Rooney as a starter for club or country. The calls for him to be, ahem, "rested" are getting louder by the game.

 

[K2K]

Yep. And it's worth pointing stuff like this out to those who still think that Rooney is undroppable for club and country and that the media don't see the problem.

A year ago there was virtually nobody in the media questioning Rooney as a starter for club or country. The calls for him to be, ahem, "rested" are getting louder by the game.

The problem is that his one of a few that are willing to. But if his performances don't improve and especially if that is at the Euros, they will be no way back for him. The media love a tournament scapegoat. Rooney's performances actually do warrant criticism at this point though.

 

[We need an rvn]

I reckon LVG's having one of those "old dog / vet" moments with Rooney...

dog is 14 years old, his legs are gone, he wees on the carpet, poops in his bed and his breath smell of fish and he can't walk further than a few 100 yards - yet he still wags his tail every morning you see him...so you're not quite ready to take him to the vet even though that's exactly what the poor old dog is wanting as he just has no life in him anymore

 

[Spock]

The real question is: Why is Rooney undroppable?

Fine, it's because he's captain, but that only begs the question. If a player is consistently out of form or lost his class altogether and if we have the players to step in for that player, for the good of everyone involved that player should be benched until he proves he's ready for inclusion in the starting XI again. Gerrard wasn't undroppable and many other legends-in-decline are not undroppable.

All joking aside, what explains Van Gaal's insistence on playing Rooney -- for a full 90+! -- regardless of how poor his form (lost class?) has been?

 

[itso 7]

Maybe if he wasn't so slow and static we'd create more chances. Martial managed to score a few when being played through the middle.

Not only that but the majority of the time he is stuck several metres behind play so much so that when we get the ball in and around the box there is no one making runs in the box or no target for the widemen to aim for. How do you create goalscoring chances when your no.9 is always stuck behind play? His positional indiscipline is killing us as much as Van Gaal's philosophy is, imo. Yes we don't create anywhere near enough but isn't it worth a try to see how we'd do if our striker didn't lose as many one on one duels as Rooney does, if our attacking moves didn't break down on account of his poor first touch or if he actually made himself available for the ball.
Rooney has been so poor that there credibility in the argument that it is he that is holding the rest of the team back not the narrative his apologists are keen of selling ever since Scholes came up with the idea to blame the rest of the team.

 

[Mutter Merkel]

My point in a nut-shell. You mention a half-chance he missed against Everton, then the next one you can think of was "a few months back".

Rooney's played almost every minute of every game up front. He should have missed nearly a dozen decent chances by now (and scored the same amount)

The biggest indication that Rooney's finished is the fact his legs are simply giving out on him when he makes any kind of run through on goal. Those chances against Everton and Palace are both perfect examples of a man who doesn't have the legs any more; he's falling over before he gets in position to shoot. A couple of years ago when I was out of shape and about a stone and a half overweight, I tried to play a game of five-a-side, and there's a moment that still makes me laugh where I tried to turn and run in behind after a through ball and I simply ended up falling over because my legs had gone. It was that that made me realise how out of shape I'd allowed my self to get and pushed me into working out to take better care of myself, but I will never forget that feeling. It was so obvious. I reckon Wayne knows his legs have gone. He's never been the fittest player, not like Ryan Giggs, and he's really living on his reputation at the moment. The fact you had to mention that all his goals came against Brugge, basically, says it all.

He really is shot at the highest level, and no amount of apologies for his current state will help him get back to where he was; he'll never be what he was.

 

[Pexbo]

My point in a nut-shell. You mention a half-chance he missed against Everton, then the next one you can think of was "a few months back".

Rooney's played almost every minute of every game up front. He should have missed nearly a dozen decent chances by now (and scored the same amount)

The fact he can no longer Spring the offside trap and get himself into goal scoring positions is a very big reason as to why he hasn't had many opportunities.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The biggest indication that Rooney's finished is the fact his legs are simply giving out on him when he makes any kind of run through on goal. Those chances against Everton and Palace are both perfect examples of a man who doesn't have the legs any more; he's falling over before he gets in position to shoot. A couple of years ago when I was out of shape and about a stone and a half overweight, I tried to play a game of five-a-side, and there's a moment that still makes me laugh where I tried to turn and run in behind after a through ball and I simply ended up falling over because my legs had gone. It was that that made me realise how out of shape I'd allowed my self to get and pushed me into working out to take better care of myself, but I will never forget that feeling. It was so obvious. I reckon Wayne knows his legs have gone. He's never been the fittest player, not like Ryan Giggs, and he's really living on his reputation at the moment. The fact you had to mention that all his goals came against Brugge, basically, says it all.

He really is shot at the highest level, and no amount of apologies for his current state will help him get back to where he was; he'll never be what he was.

I'm coming round to the idea that his legs have gone for good. The chance against Palace wasn't a gimme but the manner in which he missed it was ominous. Just looked so heavy-legged.

The reason I'm still bickering away is that even the current version of Rooney could and should score more goals with better service. The caf has a habit of seizing on individual players as the problem behind/solution to all our woes. It wasn't long ago that an idea took hold where we just needed to start Hererra to get us back playing the fast-paced incisive football we all crave.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The fact he can no longer Spring the offside trap and get himself into goal scoring positions is a very big reason as to why he hasn't had many opportunities.

Funny you should say that when his most recent chance involved all of the above.

 

[Mutter Merkel]

I'm coming round to the idea that his legs have gone for good. The chance against Palace wasn't a gimme but the manner in which he missed it was ominous. Just looked so heavy-legged.

The reason I'm still bickering away is that even the current version of Rooney could and should score more goals with better service. The caf has a habit of seizing on individual players as the problem behind/solution to all our woes. It wasn't long ago that an idea took hold where we just needed to start Hererra to get us back playing the fast-paced incisive football we all crave.

I agree with you, but Rooney is part of the team, and I believe you can only solve problems one step at a time. The first step is getting Rooney out of the team. The next step is Van Gaal either changing his slow, defensively-minded possession game for a high press similar to that which bayern and barca implement or the manager getting the sack.

 

[Sarni]

The real question is: Why is Rooney undroppable?

Fine, it's because he's captain, but that only begs the question. If a player is consistently out of form or lost his class altogether and if we have the players to step in for that player, for the good of everyone involved that player should be benched until he proves he's ready for inclusion in the starting XI again. Gerrard wasn't undroppable and many other legends-in-decline are not undroppable.

All joking aside, what explains Van Gaal's insistence on playing Rooney -- for a full 90+! -- regardless of how poor his form (lost class?) has been?

I think van Gaal genuinely believes he's been playing very well. He's already said that Rooney is one of the best 5 players he has coached. He's happy with his performances and absolutely in love with him.

 

[Treble]

I'm coming round to the idea that his legs have gone for good. The chance against Palace wasn't a gimme but the manner in which he missed it was ominous. Just looked so heavy-legged.

The reason I'm still bickering away is that even the current version of Rooney could and should score more goals with better service. The caf has a habit of seizing on individual players as the problem behind/solution to all our woes. It wasn't long ago that an idea took hold where we just needed to start Hererra to get us back playing the fast-paced incisive football we all crave.

That's true but we need a game-changer in this position, not a striker who could match the output of, say, Giroud (who is currently better than Rooney, no doubt)

 

[clarkydaz]

I think van Gaal genuinely believes he's been playing very well. He's already said that Rooney is one of the best 5 players he has coached. He's happy with his performances and absolutely in love with him.

i fail to see how this could be the case with a manager obsessed with keeping possession, with a player who is prime suspect of losing the ball. Any other player would have been banished from the lineup ages ago

 

[Pogue Mahone]

i fail to see how this could be the case with a manager obsessed with keeping possession, with a player who is prime suspect of losing the ball. Any other player would have been banished from the lineup ages ago

You'd think so. Although, if retaining possession really is all he cares about I guess we should all be a bit nervous about Martial's 45% pass completion at the weekend

 

[Spock]

I think van Gaal genuinely believes he's been playing very well. He's already said that Rooney is one of the best 5 players he has coached. He's happy with his performances and absolutely in love with him.

If that's true, oh my!

Have you ever heard the phrase "He has the wolf by the ears."? It means something like it's dangerous to keep holding the wolf but it's even more dangerous to let the wolf go.

Rooney is our wolf, too dangerous to let go of but a danger when kept in hand. Somewhere along the way over the last 10 years he became this iconic face and name associated with Manchester United. Maybe it was the overhead kick v City. Who knows? But Moyes felt Rooney was indispensable and gave him (Woody should be blamed too, btw) that ridiculous contract extension. Louis has branded him undroppable. Adidas now are desperate to spend millions to have Rooney endorse their products. Maybe someone upstairs has ordered that Rooney play every game. Whatever it is, Louis can't possibly be happy with Rooney's football performances. But maybe he is in love with him.

It cannot be that Louis sees the same shit football from Rooney and sees greatness from him. I'll grant him that Rooney is, even now, capable of pulling a rabbit out of a hat, but his play over a 90 minute spell is dreadful, week after week.

 

[Pexbo]

Funny you should say that when his most recent chance involved all of the above.

A single example is not proof of a trend.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A single example is not proof of a trend.

Ok, the goals against Ipswich and Everton? He's scored few enough goals this season but the majority have been by well-time runs, beating an offside trap. Even his most obvious missed chances came about the same way (in Swansea game) Seems like a strange thing to focus on, with so many other obvious flaws in his game.

 

[Winrar]

not just the media but Van Gaal too

and that.

 

[SteveJ]

I reckon LVG's having one of those "old dog / vet" moments with Rooney...

dog is 14 years old, his legs are gone, he wees on the carpet, poops in his bed and his breath smell of fish and he can't walk further than a few 100 yards - yet he still wags his tail every morning you see him...so you're not quite ready to take him to the vet even though that's exactly what the poor old dog is wanting as he just has no life in him anymore

Must be the only dog that, when you throw a stick for him, he gives it to a cat.

 

[#07]

Is the GMP twitter feed run by a City fan?

 

[Adisa]

Is the GMP twitter feed run by a City fan?

Probably a disillusioned red.

 

[Hed Zitin]

Sky couldn't of picked a better photo for their article on LvG backing Rooney.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Pogue, look at how often Rooney breaks up our attacks by his atrocious touch, passing, speed and dribble and then wonder why we cant create for him. Normally when you send a striker away on a through ball for instance, you have a big chancw that he'll go 1 vs 1 and score. Bar vs Everton, I cant remember the last time he just scores these. Its not because they players dont create solely, bit mainly because he's slow, lost strength and technique and that makes him so easy to defend. He doesnt stand a chance against basically every average defender at the moment.

 

[Jazz]

If we have people in this thread still sticking up for Rooney despite the evidence in front of their eyes, then it's no wonder Rooney and other English players get away with murder.

 

[Jazz]

Sky couldn't of picked a better photo for their article on LvG backing Rooney.

It's terrible! Makes him look so fat

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If we have people in this thread still sticking up for Rooney despite the evidence in front of their eyes, then it's no wonder Rooney and other English players get away with murder.

Just as well we don't, then.

What do you mean by Rooney "and other English players" getting away with murder?

 

[Jazz]

Just as well we don't, then.

What do you mean by Rooney "and other English players" getting away with murder?

I mean they are too coddled. By the media and the fans. It's pretty obvious that's one of the big failings we've got in this country as regards the way football players are treated. Maybe a little more accountability and less 'idolising' might bring them back down to earth a bit. My personal opinion anyway.

 

[wiz4231]

Sky couldn't of picked a better photo for their article on LvG backing Rooney.

Surely that's Anderson in disguise

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I mean they are too coddled. By the media and the fans. It's pretty obvious that's one of the big failings we've got in this country as regards the way football players are treated. Maybe a little more accountability and less 'idolising' might bring them back down to earth a bit. My personal opinion anyway.

I don't really have much to compare it with because I don't read much foreign media but do you really think English players get less media scrutiny and criticism, on and off the pitch, than players in other countries?

 

[Cheesy]

Sky couldn't of picked a better photo for their article on LvG backing Rooney.

He looks like he's in his 40's there.

 

[Mutter Merkel]

He looks like he's in his 40's there.

His body's gone. You can tell he doesn't do much in the gym, which is shocking for a professional footballer of today, let alone one playing for Man United.

 

[SteveJ]

♫ He's got van Gaal's balls in his hand ♫

 

[Jazz]

I don't really have much to compare it with because I don't read much foreign media but do you really think English players get less media scrutiny and criticism, on and off the pitch, than players in other countries?

They are scrutinised, but they are also more protected than their foreign counterparts in the league. Do you think for e.g. that if a foreign player in our league was putting in Rooney's performances, that the media and pundits would be looking to blame everyone else but him? Absolutely not. This is one thing that encourages these players to think they are better than what they are, and that they never need to be on guard and make sure that they constantly improve their game.

 

[Sam]

Sky couldn't of picked a better photo for their article on LvG backing Rooney.

Jesus Christ how out of shape is he?

He's slowly morphing into the 'homeless' Rooney from that world cup advert...

Spoiler

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Come on guys it is obviously the wind that is making his shirt look like that.

 

[Minimalist]

Jesus Christ how out of shape is he?

He's slowly morphing into the 'homeless' Rooney from that world cup advert...

He looks like John Hartson. With a shit hair transplant.

I do give up. Reading some of his defenders in this thread is bizarre reading to say the least. It wouldn't be given for another player if they weren't called Wayne Rooney.

"Even this current version of Rooney should be scoring more goals"

Aye okay! Suppose the fact he's easily one of the worst footballers in the league currently has nowt to do with his lack of goals or the fact he barely looks like a threat against defenders.

Unfortunately there's no way of proving this nonsense wrong until Van Gaal gets his balls back and drops the git.

And Wilson being given 45 minutes is not the same thing. Try 5 games without Rooney and I'm convinced it would be a different story.

 

[Ixion]

Was wracking my brain trying to think when he got an assist this season then remembered it was that own-goal against Spurs wasn't it

He didn't know much about one of his two league goals either, the Sunderland one, he's actually had a bit of luck this season, his stats could be worse.

 

[clarkydaz]

Badly let down again by his tailor

 

[Kakeru]

It's not just Gullit. It's fecking everywhere, like a disease. Amount of bollocks spouted by so called 'experts' and 'pundits' is just astonishing. They're doing their utmost to shift the blame away from Rooney on just anybody, players, system, LVG himself while Rooney's the saint one.

NBC commentators pretty much summed it up on Saturday for me. There was some shit cross from Herrera that wouldn't reach anybody, Rooney was in the midfield, Martial was still on the wing and they're blaming Martial for not cutting in to get that cross absolutely omitting 'where the feck is the #9' part. Seconds later, Martial creates that pass for Rooney, he doesn't get to it, 'unlucky', 'keeper's done well', it's just like watching a different match at times.

Well, I mentioned Gullit in particular because 1) he's not British, and 2) so it should not matter that much for him if he calls out the face of English football for playing like crap unless Gullit is really afraid to lose his job.

Regardless, the media world must be one hell of a mess when they don't criticize someone who deserves to have flak coming his way. Even David Moyes was gunned down in several media by the time people realized how extremely bad he was at United. For the record, I think Trevor Francis said 2 days ago that John Terry has lost his legs. I only wish people could start giving the same reality check on Rooney as they did on Terry and on Gerrard.

The real question is: Why is Rooney undroppable?

Fine, it's because he's captain, but that only begs the question. If a player is consistently out of form or lost his class altogether and if we have the players to step in for that player, for the good of everyone involved that player should be benched until he proves he's ready for inclusion in the starting XI again. Gerrard wasn't undroppable and many other legends-in-decline are not undroppable.

That's the big question. In Van Gaal's case, the question is more legitimate because he has been in that situation before with Mark van Bommel. As for other examples, Rodgers ditched Steven Gerrard when it became self-explanatory about why Stevie Me's presence on the pitch was detrimental for the team. This season, it's John Terry's turn as well. Mourinho might lose his job because he was awfully wrong in a number of things, but benching Terry wasn't a wrong call.

Van Gaal is risking his job if that Rooney thing carries on and becomes even more detrimental to the team's performances than it already is.

 

[Americano]

It would be interesting to see a full opposition scouting report on him from this season.