What has C.Ronaldo ever done in WC?
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I don't think Rooney is past it, although he certainly has to work really hard to get back to his best. He needs to up his game in a lot of areas.
I think Falcao coming in will be really good for Rooney. Falcao and RvP both being here means that Rooney should not be undroppable - I know he is our captain but I expect van Gaal would drop him if he felt Rooney wasn't performing to the required standard and there are genuine world class alternatives in better form...van Gaal is stubborn but not an idiot. Simply, Rooney has to knuckle down, work hard and improve or else he will find himself the one kicking his heels on the bench, whereas before he has mostly played no matter how poor his form due to him being significantly better than his alternatives.
It will be beneficial for Rooney to be removed from the firing line when he isn't playing well and it should hopefully make him eager to fight to get his place back. If he continues to get picked by van Gaal despite playing poorly with any of Falcao/RvP/Mata on the bench then both he and van Gaal will receive a lot of criticism, and quite rightly so.
I think Falcao coming in will be really good for Rooney. Falcao and RvP both being here means that Rooney should not be undroppable - I know he is our captain but I expect van Gaal would drop him if he felt Rooney wasn't performing to the required standard and there are genuine world class alternatives in better form...van Gaal is stubborn but not an idiot. Simply, Rooney has to knuckle down, work hard and improve or else he will find himself the one kicking his heels on the bench, whereas before he has mostly played no matter how poor his form due to him being significantly better than his alternatives.
It will be beneficial for Rooney to be removed from the firing line when he isn't playing well and it should hopefully make him eager to fight to get his place back. If he continues to get picked by van Gaal despite playing poorly with any of Falcao/RvP/Mata on the bench then both he and van Gaal will receive a lot of criticism, and quite rightly so.
If he's crap for us, I think he will be dropped. I realise he's our captain... but LVG isn't going to persist when there are other players waiting in the wings. That goes for any one of our attacking players now.
.For me Rooney is finished as a top level player in terms of performance.. i.e. he is not a 'star player'. He is very similar to Mata in that he is capable of producing good stats in terms of assists/goals, but he is a hindrance for both both club and country due to his lack of mobility.
For England he is an utter nightmare, I predict they will flop at Euro 2016 and possible world cup 2018, and then once wayne retires... the likes of Sturridge might be on the wane and the whole cycle begins again. England needed a manager who just focused on youth development and building an attractive brand of football, instead we've got Fat waz at the heart of it all - making the rest look shite. Scoring the pen, means he can end up looking good as he scored the goal.. but his performance was piss poor yesterday.
He looked good in pre-season, but that is the problem with Rooney... he can still look good in patches but when was the last time he ran a game from start to finish, week in week out in a United shirt? he never turned into that player we thought he could who dominates games and the other team has to adjust their tactics to stop his threat.. it has never materialised. It is very easy to mark him out the game as he is predictable when running with the ball and doesn't have brilliant movement off the ball to compensate for it. Instead he comes short.. drops a shoulder and plays a pass out wide. Rinse and repeat.
The problem for me is at United, RVP and Mata are no better, so in that case.. Rooney still has some use for United at the moment.. whereas for England, he needs to go in order for Sterling/Barkley to flourish as he is in direct competition with them and nowhere near as good. Selling him to Chelsea would have been perfect, Short term hit but long term gain.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Rooney, RVP and Mata go after next summer... their lack of dynamism just doesn't fit into LVGs footballing philosophy and if we have shitloads of money and are capable of attracting stars like Di Maria, we don't need to put up with this substandard level performance from either of these players anymore.
So, similar to United's situation then.
Except England don't have Mata, Di Maria, Falcao and Van Persie.
The difference is at England.. Sturridge is easily a better player, younger, faster, hungrier and more technically gifted. Then you have the likes of Sterling and Barkley who are the same in the number 10 spot. Even Roy tried to drop him in the world cup before Rooney had a sulk during the Italy game and then Hodgson pandered to him.
Our best performance in recent times was dropping Rooney against Real, we really took it to them and were so energetic that night.
At United now, in terms of competition... RVP, Mata.. they're not that much better than Rooney in terms of affecting the pace of the game or even in terms of end product. Therefore he still has a role to play. I hope by bringing in more talent, this will no longer remain the case.
Your giving Sturridge far too much credit. More technically gifted? Rooney just needs to be playing in a confident team again.
He's obviously going to be dropped if he's not performing. Van Gaal's reputation is built entirely on having the bollocks to make tough decisions and drop players whose reputation exceeds their contribution on the pitch. Rooney's obviously made a good first impression in training and in pre-season (so our new manager obviously sees qualities in him that many on here do not) but anyone who thinks Van Gaal won't drop Rooney if he's not producing is living in la la land. Especially now he's got Van Persie and Falcao both playing the same position.
So let's wait and see what happens. If Rooney keeps getting picked then maybe, just maybe, the witch-hunt in this thread is based more on emotion than a rational analysis of what he does on the football pitch. Time will tell...
So let's wait and see what happens. If Rooney keeps getting picked then maybe, just maybe, the witch-hunt in this thread is based more on emotion than a rational analysis of what he does on the football pitch. Time will tell...
Oh and on a purely physiological level this idea that any footballer - in the absence of serious injury - has suddenly entered a phase of rapid physical decline aged 28 is fecking demented.
Clearly he isn't in physical decline. Why he's stopped using his physical gifts is what's concerning. He still has rapid acceleration and good strength. He still has the ability to beat a man or 2. But he uses these sporadically. I just hope its a confidence issue cuz there is no other explanation for it.
I still maintain that making him club and country captain was an absolutely unnecessary burden, especially when both of these teams are in crap form.
Plus, both these teams may look to prosper without him in the side in the near future - becomes awkward for the manager, possibly.
Seems the most logical explanation, with so many other players at the same club playing way below what we know they're capable of. If anything, Rooney's had one or two spells in the last 12 months that were closer to his best than anyone else at United. Yet he's been getting the most stick. Go figure.
Fair point about the captaincy. Can go one of two ways, I suppose. Still very early days this season, for club and country.
Why United didn't sell him to Real for say 60m or why did they bought Mata is a mystery to me..
Probably not true.
Not even Real are that crazy. Everyone but a few in denile United supporters know Rooney's in decline. Hell even Scholes implied it.
1st paragraph is 100% spot on!
When he became Dutch national manager, he dropped RVP as he wasn't impressed. RVP obviously changed his mind as LVG made him captain and now, LVG loves the guy.
The 2nd paragraph...Maybe for some but, for me, it's not so much as a witch hunt but, describing what I see anytime he plays these days and sadly, there isn't much positive to report lately
That's far from clear. Just watch Rooney against Arsenal away 2010 and watch him against Arsenal away 2014 and you'll see a sea of difference. Rooney has played in one of the physically most demanding leagues for 12 years now. It's not unreasonable to suggest thta he's lost some of his qualities. It's pretty obvious that he isn't particularly quick and explosive any more. His limited ability to get past players ins't somethng new, that's a tendency from 2-3 seasons now.
I agree with this assessment, you certain players, when losing their most important physical attributes, change their game to use their "brain" more. I think Rooney tries to play like he's his physical peak but he just cannot anymore. Running up and down the pitch isn't helping him, hopefully with a better midfield he won't have to anymore and focus his energy in the last third of the pitch.
For all the talk of van Persie's form by United fans for me the biggest worry is Rooney. He's had a nice full pre-season and should be in tip top shape right now but he isn't. He looks lethargic and heavy legged already. There's no spring in his step, very poor movement, poor first touch and passing is well off.
Sturridge is far more technically gifted at present, he can dribble the ball in a manner Rooney could only dream of... shoots off either foot from varying distances at a regular basis, even his hold up play is progressing beyond what Rooney is capable of.
Don't get me wrong, a peak Rooney.. > Sturridge, but this current Rooney? only a biased Rooney fan would say he is more talented than Sturridge in his current guise. Technically Sturridge is one of the best strikers in football, his footwork alone is ahead of most strikers.. he is more like a winger in that respect. All Rooney can pull off is dropping the shoulder to make a pass.
Absolutely horrendous viewing
I have to say, the current Wayne Rooney is a bit of a mess.
We're paying him more than probably any other player in the squad. We're paying absolute top dollar, because of him holding the club to ransom on two occassions.
And what does he deliver?
Arguably, he's gone downhill entirely since his great 09/10 season where he was played as a pure striker.
Bar the 11/12 season he's not delivered. The last couple of years hasn't been anywhere near the standard required from a player like him.
Quite frankly, his bottom level and consistency are shameful considering what he's paid.
It annoys me greatly.
We're paying him more than probably any other player in the squad. We're paying absolute top dollar, because of him holding the club to ransom on two occassions.
And what does he deliver?
Arguably, he's gone downhill entirely since his great 09/10 season where he was played as a pure striker.
Bar the 11/12 season he's not delivered. The last couple of years hasn't been anywhere near the standard required from a player like him.
Quite frankly, his bottom level and consistency are shameful considering what he's paid.
It annoys me greatly.
I think Wayne Rooney is worth the money he's getting. If you look at the brand Wayne Rooney you can't compare it with any other active player today in England. This alone brings an interest and carisma that every club need.
If we look at the player he will always be uneven in his performance. SAF said so himself that Wayne takes too long to get into shape whenever he's not on a strikt diet and won't get to play a lot. And we can all see he's the player that has the biggest weight spread during a single year - something you can easily tell with your eyes. Once we get closer to november-december he will hit his form.
To me Wayne Rooney was always going to be a better player when the tempo is extreme. He's the kind of player that need a high puls and act on intuition rather than taking a decision when there's no pressure whatsoever. I believe LVG will upper our speed a bit in the final third on counter attacks and limit the time from build up to execution. Players like Valencia, Young and Cleverley (I know he's gone now) are just too slow in that area, so hopefully we will be deadlier and create stuff at a higher speed from now on, and this is where Wayne will come good I believe.
If we look at the player he will always be uneven in his performance. SAF said so himself that Wayne takes too long to get into shape whenever he's not on a strikt diet and won't get to play a lot. And we can all see he's the player that has the biggest weight spread during a single year - something you can easily tell with your eyes. Once we get closer to november-december he will hit his form.
To me Wayne Rooney was always going to be a better player when the tempo is extreme. He's the kind of player that need a high puls and act on intuition rather than taking a decision when there's no pressure whatsoever. I believe LVG will upper our speed a bit in the final third on counter attacks and limit the time from build up to execution. Players like Valencia, Young and Cleverley (I know he's gone now) are just too slow in that area, so hopefully we will be deadlier and create stuff at a higher speed from now on, and this is where Wayne will come good I believe.
Rooney has never looked after himself the way other top pro's who maintained a high level into their 30's have. He never had blistering pace or regularly went past defenders with ease anyway so even a moderate decline has left him looking completely out of place. Last night England fans got to see what we witness from him every week. Incapable of making penetrating runs, linking play, beating defenders etc Last night he had fewest passes of any England outfield player, the lowest pass completion of any England outfield player, the fewest touches of any England outfield player.
He may get by with England because they don't have RVP/Falcao/Mata but we do.
Good post
It does seem like slowly but surely Rooney's low quality performances are starting to get noticed more in the media. As little as a year ago he was seen as our best player and someone that England should build the team around where as the media don't seem as strong in their praise now. We're starting to hear the first rumblings of people wanting him dropped.
He gets criticised more than most because he's our highest paid player and he's twice held the club to ransom. I don't get why some people don't understand why Rooney is disliked by a section of Utd fans. You are perfectly entitled to disagree with those people who dislike him but surely you can see why?
I think he's still capable of the odd moment of quality but those moments get further and further apart now. And in between those moments of quality is a lot of dross.
I think if you reduce his workload and ( a la Welbeck) just play him as one of two CFs or as left sided attacker you get the best from him. I think his forays into number 10 land just make it all too much for him, on a few levels.
He's 28. So enough of this "into their 30s" crap. At 28 you don't get any footballer undergoing even a "moderate decline" based purely on their age.
Repeated muscular injuries can take their toll (e.g. michael owen). Other than that, any perceived physical decline is purely in the head of the observer.
He was crap for England last night. No arguments here. As Van Gaal himself said, he needs to get over this burden of captaincy, relax and start expressing himself. Right now, it seems to be inhibiting him. Hopefully this won't take more than a few games.
No, no it isn't. Just because you disagree with an idea doesn't make that idea "demented". The fact is Rooney will be 29 in a few weeks and has played 12 years of first team football. He's played over 600 games for club and country. I think you're greatly discounting the clumative effect of playing that many games. Honestly how many players are any where near their peak after that many games. Beckham heading to MLS by the time he'd played as many games as Rooney. It wasn't 'til 2008-09 that Scholes had that many games under his belt. Not to mention injuries (I've lost count of the number of times he's injured the same foot/ankle). Scholes wasn't being a WUM when he wrote about the very real possibility that Rooney has peaked and is now on the decline.
It was a penalty. Someone else could take it if he wasn't on the pitch.
You are talking nonsense!
If we are talking about a 28-year old who has taken care of himself healthwise then you may have a point. Rooney hasn't looked after himself like professionals should do.......in that wise, he could decline at the age of 22.
Fitness is very important to football players & Rooney has declined. Ronaldo is older than Rooney - who do you think would outpace the other in a 100m sprint today? Captainship has nothing to do with his performance. Rooney has been piss-poor now for 18 months.
I hope LVG isn't afraid to drop him Captain or no Captain. Would do our team and probably him a world of good I think.
There's plenty of examples out there on footballers who didn't look after themselves and declined dramatically because of it. Lee Sharpe could have been at United his entire career but was playing in Iceland by the time he was 30. Gazza is arguably the most talented midfielder the country has produced in 30+ years but was playing at Ranger's by his mid 20's. Rooney hasn't been abusive on the same level as these guys but he's still noticeably declined and his poor lifestyle will have contributed to it.
Others footballers like Torres/Fowler/Owen are similar to Rooney in that they all broke into the first team at incredibly young ages and fell off a cliff by their late 20s.
We would've been in a lot worser position last year if it wasn't for Wayne, have some respect.. You don't score/assist the ammount he has by being shit.
For me Rooney is finished as a top level player in terms of performance.. i.e. he is not a 'star player'. He is very similar to Mata in that he is capable of producing good stats in terms of assists/goals, but he is a hindrance for both both club and country due to his lack of mobility.
For England he is an utter nightmare, I predict they will flop at Euro 2016 and possible world cup 2018, and then once wayne retires... the likes of Sturridge might be on the wane and the whole cycle begins again. England needed a manager who just focused on youth development and building an attractive brand of football, instead we've got Fat waz at the heart of it all - making the rest look shite. Scoring the pen, means he can end up looking good as he scored the goal.. but his performance was piss poor yesterday.
He looked good in pre-season, but that is the problem with Rooney... he can still look good in patches but when was the last time he ran a game from start to finish, week in week out in a United shirt? he never turned into that player we thought he could who dominates games and the other team has to adjust their tactics to stop his threat.. it has never materialised. It is very easy to mark him out the game as he is predictable when running with the ball and doesn't have brilliant movement off the ball to compensate for it. Instead he comes short.. drops a shoulder and plays a pass out wide. Rinse and repeat.
The problem for me is at United, RVP and Mata are no better, so in that case.. Rooney still has some use for United at the moment.. whereas for England, he needs to go in order for Sterling/Barkley to flourish as he is in direct competition with them and nowhere near as good. Selling him to Chelsea would have been perfect, Short term hit but long term gain.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Rooney, RVP and Mata go after next summer... their lack of dynamism just doesn't fit into LVGs footballing philosophy and if we have shitloads of money and are capable of attracting stars like Di Maria, we don't need to put up with this substandard level performance from either of these players anymore.
217 goals & 113 assits in 445 games. Not bad for an overrated fat cnut at the age of 28, right?
Never said he was shit. Rooney is or should I say was one of my favourite footballers. Difference is I like to call it as I see it on any footballer regardless if I have a soft spot. Like Anderson for example, long time I defended him etc.. but you have to call a spade a spade after a while.
Bring up all the statistics you like, I can see on the pitch why he is a hindrance especially for his country. The difference once Sterling went into the middle was remarkable. I predict LVG will come to the same conclusions after a while.
Ruud is the perfect example of how individually you might still be producing the goods in terms of end product, but your overall contribution as a team player is becoming more and more limited due to age and you need to move aside for the greater collective to move forward and progress. Rooney is at that stage... he needs to prove himself because at the moment, he is on course to be sold in my opinion.
He is still racking up decent goal/assists numbers, hell Ozil racked up insane level of assists at Madrid...
Both lack pace and dynamism though, hence why a Di Maria is just a better player. They're playing in key roles, they're meant to be the heartbeat of their respective sides.. I see more life in a feckin dodo. Slow, cumbersome, devoid of drive... compare Rooney's energy in a game to a Sterling or a Barkley.. world's apart.
That is the type of energy you need from a top player in the number 10 role to win game after game for your side, he is not upto it I'm afraid. He's best as a 9... but even then.. likes of Aguero, Lewandowski, Sturridge, Benzema are more dynamic.. even though at his peak.. Rooney better than them all.
I think he is only overrated until recently. You are only as goid as your last game. Lets look at things objectively and take all this nostalgic baloney out of it.
Nah, I'm afraid it is you who is talking nonsense. A constant theme throughout your posting on here.
I strongly disagree.....
We would have been in a stronger position. Kagawa would have had more appearances & Rooney's replacement or Welbeck/Hernandez would have done more as the centre forward. We coped well without Rooney towards the end of 12/13 season.
Considering it's taken him 36,000 minutes @ Man Utd to notch that, I couldn't be less impressed.
Messi has 356 goals & 154 assists in 33,469 mins for Barcelona.
Yes, you know better than Scholes who already suggested Rooney is past his peak. Pogue, the world's most potent seer.
I wonder how different things would be if that free kick against Swansea at 1-1 which hit the post had gone in and we won the game.
People have short term/selective memory when they have agendas. Thank God we have LvG as manager and not you guys.
People have short term/selective memory when they have agendas. Thank God we have LvG as manager and not you guys.
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I don't care about his stats, they are more about opportunity than anything else, I know my eyes are not deceiving me. Rooney's days are numbered at Utd. People can defend him all they want. His popularity is dwindling thus his money-making ability will decrease and there will be no need to keep such an over-rated player.
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