[Zen]

Pretty insane he got both armbands really. He seems to be keeping himself fit due to it, but his game isn't fully there, he's like some odd false10 or whatever type player in both systems that don't really want it. I dunno. Clubwise at least, he would of probably helped himself and United going to Chelsea last summer, not that I, even realising that, wanted him to go there.

Might of helped his England career too as Jose would of made the central focal point alone, so would probably be a straight battle for whoever goes in for England on whos scored the most between him and Sturridge.

 

[Bwuk]

He's past it.

 

[Rozay]

Barely a few weeks back he was looking great in pre-season. Slim, fit and scoring and creating brilliant goals. A few games later he's not played well in three games as part of a misfiring club team (along with other quality players) and has one quiet game for England. The desperation that United fans have to write his obituary as a footballer is fvcking mental, it really is.

Regardless of his form in pre fecking season, whether you think he is rubbish or not , it surely cannot be argued that he has been a worse footballer than Sturridge and Sterling for about 12 months, more so in Sturridge's case?

Can you hand on heart say your strong defence of Rooney is based purely on saying what you see?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

And if Rooney scores an important goal or two on Monday against Switzerland there will be very little activity on this thread.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Erm, no they are not. Even if they are(and they aren't), there was just one preseason game in august, vs Valencia, and he was pretty average in that game too.

They specifically mention pre-season games in the blurb about him. Like I said, it's been a horrendous month so they're obviously stretching. At the very least he's scored our best goal (one of only two in competitive games) Who would you have as your three nominees?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Regardless of his form in pre fecking season, whether you think he is rubbish or not , it surely cannot be argued that he has been a worse footballer than Sturridge and Sterling for about 12 months, more so in Sturridge's case?

Can you hand on heart say your strong defence of Rooney is based purely on saying what you see?

Sterling and Sturridge have been better than him for at least 12 months now. They've also been miles better than RVP, Mata and Januzaj. Are all four United players really that much worse than the Liverpool two? Or perhaps the confidence that comes playing for a club side that's absolutely flying (as opposed to slowly dying on it's arse) might have something to do with it?

EDIT: Sturridge was worse than Rooney in the WC, mind you. He was absolutely shite IMO.

 

[Silverman]

Has Mata really been any better there? Rooney would be criticised for putting in Mata-esque performances. And Januzaj definitely isn't a better #10 either. And as for Falcao being a better striker, let's just see how he's playing after the injury and how he adjusts to the league before we decide he's better than Rooney and Rvp?

Mata is a better #10 than Rooney. He is creative and a joy to watch. Rooney's touch has been awful recently and his passing has massively degressed. Even though Mata may have been poor so far this season, he has just had a poor start. He was very good last season. Rooney was quite poor last season. I can tell you are a Rooney fan from your username so I can't see you agreeing with me on anything here.

 

[wr8_utd]

I don't want to make this a Rooney vs RvP debate but since he's the only other striker at the club currently who has played games for us, I'll use him as a comparison. What do United fans want? Would they be happy if he were like RvP and be completely out of the game when not having a good match (which has happened quite often for RvP in recent times) or would you rather he drop deep and try things, many of which might not work, and just generally try be involved. Rooney looked very sharp for us in pre season but has had a poor two games for the club since the season started at a time where our entire team has been dreadful and yet the knives seem to be out earlier than usual. It seems a bit OTT.

 

[goin4glory]

Sterling and Sturridge have been better than him for at least 12 months now. They've also been miles better than RVP, Mata and Januzaj. Are all four United players really that much worse than the Liverpool two? Or perhaps the confidence that comes playing for a club side that's absolutely flying (as opposed to slowly dying on it's arse) might have something to do with it?

EDIT: Sturridge was worse than Rooney in the WC, mind you. He was absolutely shite IMO.

RVP's form went tits up when Rooney came back into the fold under Moyes and he even publicly brought it up after the game vs Olympiakos. The problem with Mata (and you can include Kagawa in this) is with Rooney on the pitch they occupy the same space, Rooney no longer has pace or looks to run in behind defences so Mata has no one offering penetrating runs. To get the best out of these 10's you need forwards capable of stretching play.

 

[wr8_utd]

Mata is a better #10 than Rooney. He is creative and a joy to watch. Rooney's touch has been awful recently and his passing has massively degressed. Even though Mata may have been poor so far this season, he has just had a poor start. He was very good last season. Rooney was quite poor last season. I can tell you are a Rooney fan from your username so I can't see you agreeing with me on anything here.

He really wasn't but. He was our best player till Christmas and was then just as good (or poor) as anyone else in the squad for the second half of the season. I know stats don't tell the story but he did finish in double digits for both goals and assists last season. At a time when everyone has been atrocious, Rooney gets a disproportionate share of the blame largely because of his new contract and now proabably the captaincy.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I don't understand people using his preseason performances in his favor, Fletcher looked like Scholes in America and that mattered to nothing once the team showed up back home.

 

[Amar__]

They specifically mention pre-season games in the blurb about him. Like I said, it's been a horrendous month so they're obviously stretching. At the very least he's scored our best goal (one of only two in competitive games) Who would you have as your three nominees?

They mentioned it for every player but they "bolded" at the start that they are talking just about four games; mentioning "start of the season vs Swansea" in every players section.

I have no idea, but obviously not him because he was probably one of our worse performers. Smalling wasn't bad, even Ashley Young was probably better than him, and Valencia was equally bad, same as Mata, but he obviously got the nomination on his name.

 

[Silverman]

He really wasn't but. He was our best player till Christmas and was then just as good (or poor) as anyone else in the squad for the second half of the season. I know stats don't tell the story but he did finish in double digits for both goals and assists last season. At a time when everyone has been atrocious, Rooney gets a disproportionate share of the blame largely because of his new contract and now proabably the captaincy.

How come the other 'poor' players get dropped yet Rooney never does. As for the Mata vs Rooney debate. There is no way that Rooney could be considered a better #10. Come on! Van Persie and Falcao are better striker too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

RVP's form went tits up when Rooney came back into the fold under Moyes and he even publicly brought it up after the game vs Olympiakos. The problem with Mata (and you can include Kagawa in this) is with Rooney on the pitch they occupy the same space, Rooney no longer has pace or looks to run in behind defences so Mata has no one offering penetrating runs. To get the best out of these 10's you need forwards capable of stretching play.

So it's all Rooney's fault the rest of them are playing badly? Seems legit.

This place. Honestly...

 

[Jerch]

RVP's form went tits up when Rooney came back into the fold under Moyes and he even publicly brought it up after the game vs Olympiakos. The problem with Mata (and you can include Kagawa in this) is with Rooney on the pitch they occupy the same space, Rooney no longer has pace or looks to run in behind defences so Mata has no one offering penetrating runs. To get the best out of these 10's you need forwards capable of stretching play.

You can't rate any of our players based on last 12 months. If you do you can say all our players are shit and we know that is not the case. And you can't rate Rooney based on England games because emm England are pretty shit to.

Give time to Rooney, RVP and Mata and start comparing them to Liverpool players when our team start clicking.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Mata is a better #10 than Rooney. He is creative and a joy to watch. Rooney's touch has been awful recently and his passing has massively degressed. Even though Mata may have been poor so far this season, he has just had a poor start. He was very good last season. Rooney was quite poor last season. I can tell you are a Rooney fan from your username so I can't see you agreeing with me on anything here.

That's interesting, Mata just had a poor start, but Rooney didnt, he's been poor the whole last season right? Problem is, he wasnt, he was very good in the beginning of the season and Mata on the other hand wasnt much better last season.
But you obviously see things different.

The whole team was poor last season but Rooney is always blamed for everything by some.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I don't want to make this a Rooney vs RvP debate but since he's the only other striker at the club currently who has played games for us, I'll use him as a comparison. What do United fans want? Would they be happy if he were like RvP and be completely out of the game when not having a good match (which has happened quite often for RvP in recent times) or would you rather he drop deep and try things, many of which might not work, and just generally try be involved. Rooney looked very sharp for us in pre season but has had a poor two games for the club since the season started at a time where our entire team has been dreadful and yet the knives seem to be out earlier than usual. It seems a bit OTT.

I think if Rooney is playing he should stick to playing up front as an out and out striker instead of dropping deep and trying to make things happen because as you said most of the time it doesn't work and he just gets in the way. I don't think he's good enough to be a number 10 for Utd anymore, his first touch, control and passing aren't good enough and he seems too timid and cautious to try anything out of the ordinary anyway. Other than his weekly crap effort at chipping the keeper.

I'm sure he's doing it to try and help out and that's admirable but more often than not it doesn't work.

 

[Rozay]

End of the day, this 'witchhunt' stuff is crap in my view. The eye sees what the eye sees.

Nobody likes Suarez but his supporters are not constantly having to defend his status as a top footballer. Rooney is not being called out for no reason. If he was unequivocally excellent more often than not, this debate would not keep happening.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Rooney is now England's 4th all time leading scorer.

 

[Silverman]

That's interesting, Mata just had a poor start, but Rooney didnt, he's been poor the whole last season right? Problem is, he wasnt, he was very good in the beginning of the season and Mata on the other hand wasnt much better last season.
But you obviously see things different.

The whole team was poor last season but Rooney is always blamed for everything by some.

Mata was very good when he arrived last year. Yet Rooney was struggling all season by his standards as you said along with the rest of the United squad. My point is that Mata is a better #10 than Rooney, which I can see no room for debate there. Rooney is a striker and should only be played there imo. However now I think Falcao is a better striker so by my book Rooney should be benched.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The logic behind some of these arguments is interesting. Or appalling. Or completely absent. Depends on one's point of view, I suppose.

Anyway, Rooney isn't really a problem for us at the moment. I honestly don't think so.

Good night.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Mata was very good when he arrived last year. Yet Rooney was struggling all season by his standards as you said along with the rest of the United squad. My point is that Mata is a better #10 than Rooney, which I can see no room for debate there. Rooney is a striker and should only be played there imo. However now I think Falcao is a better striker so by my book Rooney should be benched.

Although I'm a big fan of him, Mata wasn't anything special when he arrived really.

 

[wr8_utd]

How come the other 'poor' players get dropped yet Rooney never does. As for the Mata vs Rooney debate. There is no way that Rooney could be considered a better #10. Come on! Van Persie and Falcao are better striker too.

When has RvP been dropped? When has Mata been dropped? The two of them have had as many, if not more, poor games off late and they don't get dropped either.

End of the day, this 'witchhunt' stuff is crap in my view. The eye sees what the eye sees.

Nobody likes Suarez but his supporters are not constantly having to defend his status as a top footballer. Rooney is not being called out for no reason. If he was unequivocally excellent more often than not, this debate would not keep happening.

Well then the eye should see with more consistency and less bias because if it were consistent, we'd be seeing some of our other big names also get the criticism Rooney gets. Maybe Rooney ought to just completely not be in the match like RvP and then we'll move on to the next scapegoat.

 

[Jerch]

Rooney is now England's 4th all time leading scorer.

And our third all time top scorer. He was, is and will be WC player. Just look at his stats.

 

[United22]

Barely a few weeks back he was looking great in pre-season. Slim, fit and scoring and creating brilliant goals. A few games later he's not played well in three games as part of a misfiring club team (along with other quality players) and has one quiet game for England. The desperation that United fans have to write his obituary as a footballer is fvcking mental, it really is.

Darren Fletcher looked good in pre season. That says it all pretty much

 

[wr8_utd]

All those who are saying Falcao is a better striker etc, have you even watched him play anytime recently or are you all just going by his pre Monaco form from 2 years ago? He wasn't great at Monaco and he's just come back from major injury so there's no real guarantee that he's going to be better than RvP and Rooney just because he was amazing two seasons ago.

 

[CrashDavis]

And our third all time top scorer. He was, is and will be WC player. Just look at his stats.

Stats kinda bore me to be honest with you. One thing though: what's he ever done in a World Cup? Not having a go, but surely that's the benchmark for a truly world class player, right?

 

[Mali_Zeus]

All those who are saying Falcao is a better striker etc, have you even watched him play anytime recently or are you all just going by his pre Monaco form from 2 years ago? He wasn't great at Monaco and he's just come back from major injury so there's no real guarantee that he's going to be better than RvP and Rooney just because he was amazing two seasons ago.

Falcao played 20 games for Monaco, and already scored some goals in preseason.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be his old self but he is a better striker than Rooney tbh.

 

[goin4glory]

So it's all Rooney's fault the rest of them are playing badly? Seems legit.

This place. Honestly...

No plenty of players took blame for last season which resulted in Rio/Evra/Vidic/Cleverly/Nani/Buttner/Kagawa all being shown the door. Like half of them Rooney isn't good enough anymore and should have been shown the exit as well.

You can't rate any of our players based on last 12 months. If you do you can say all our players are shit and we know that is not the case. And you can't rate Rooney based on England games because emm England are pretty shit to.

Give time to Rooney, RVP and Mata and start comparing them to Liverpool players when our team start clicking.

Rooney was very poor in SAF last season so much so he wanted him sold, he's done nothing since then to show SAF was wrong quite the opposite. At no point in any of my posts have I based an argument on England performances.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Stats kinda bore me to be honest with you. One thing though: what's he ever done in a World Cup? Not having a go, but surely that's the benchmark for a truly world class player, right?

What about WC players with crap national teams for instance then?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Stats kinda bore me to be honest with you. One thing though: what's he ever done in a World Cup? Not having a go, but surely that's the benchmark for a truly world class player, right?

Hardly. Unless you think Messi only just became world class this summer.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

No plenty of players took blame for last season which resulted in Rio/Evra/Vidic/Cleverly/Nani/Buttner/Kagawa all being shown the door. Like half of them Rooney isn't good enough anymore and should have been shown the exit as well.



Rooney was very poor in SAF last season so much so he wanted him sold, he's done nothing since then to show SAF was wrong quite the opposite. At no point in any of my posts have I based an argument on England performances.

Brilliant revisionism.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Rooney was very poor in SAF last season so much so he wanted him sold, he's done nothing since then to show SAF was wrong quite the opposite. At no point in any of my posts have I based an argument on England performances.

Really, I thought Rooney asked for a transfer?

 

[Keenst]

All those who are saying Falcao is a better striker etc, have you even watched him play anytime recently or are you all just going by his pre Monaco form from 2 years ago? He wasn't great at Monaco and he's just come back from major injury so there's no real guarantee that he's going to be better than RvP and Rooney just because he was amazing two seasons ago.

You could say the same about Rooney to be fair. What's to say he's going to improve and be as good as he was at even nearly his best? At least Falcao is still scoring.

 

[CrashDavis]

Hardly. Unless you think Messi only just became world class this summer.

Well, he'd won his fair share of individual honours at club level prior to that so yeah, slow starter at international level. And stats concerning goals bore me really... sure Robbie Keane is one of the all time leading international goalscorers, right? Yeah, Robbie Keane... gas.

 

[Nickosaur]

And our third all time top scorer. He was, is and will be WC player. Just look at his stats.

The tenses! The tenses!!!

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Rooney was poor in Fergie's last season though. Poor enough that he was dropped for the biggest game of the season.

Is that not a universally accepted opinion?

 

[Kaos]

Its a borderline crime how much we're paying him and now that he's our captain.

He's our third best no.9 and I'd much rather play three players in no.10 ahead of him, heck that's not even including the one player we recently sold who I rate as a better no.10.

Wish he'd be dropped instead of being picked on default, its becoming as a tedious as the Gerrard sentimentality for England.

 

[wr8_utd]

You could say the same about Rooney to be fair. What's to say he's going to improve and be as good as he was at even nearly his best? At least Falcao is still scoring.

Rooney scored 19 goals in 37 appearances last season. Falcao scored around 11 in 19 for Monaco? Hardly a major difference considering the former is considered beyond his expiry date and Falcao is the best striker in the world.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Rooney was poor in Fergie's last season though. Poor enough that he was dropped for the biggest game of the season.

Is that not a universally accepted opinion?

He scored the opening goals in the most important league match of the season and started every other important match of the season.