[Massive Spanner]

It's demented. Every season the fans need a whipping boy. Combination of a herd mentality and desperate need to find someone to blame for any adversity (the last bit is a very modern phenomenon?).

Rooney is the most talented and productive whipping boy I can remember, which makes the witch hunt all the more ludicrous.

Where as RvP, who was worse, seems to get off scott free.

Assumedly because he hasn't done to the club what Rooney has in terms of contracts, even though he did worse to Arsenal than Rooney ever did here and hasn't really been here long enough to do anything like what Rooney did! Not that I'm trying to start a witch-hunt on RvP, or anything, just that it's laughable that Rooney's seen as such a scape goat every time something goes wrong for us, despite usually never being close to our worst player on the day. The idea that he's not worthy of being our captain due to a poor performance or two is also quite laughable.

I see a lot of people claiming Mata will thrive alongside someone as fast as Di Maria, which may be true, but I think Rooney will thrive more than anyone. He's more accustomed than anyone to having a world-class, pacey winger with great delivery alongside him to wreak havoc.

 

[itso 7]

Some of what you've said is harsh. We're only two games into the season and all our players are still learning to play in a different system. Once the team plays more games, we'll see better performances from all our players who are learning to adapt to a precise system. On the armband: giving him the captaincy isn't going to improve the weak elements of his play - what it will hopefully accomplish is raise his level of consistency, which has been a major weak point of his for a while now. What I do have a problem with, however, is Rooney's sluggishness on the ball. This deserves to be criticised and it has nothing to do with players not making movements or him not being given service against Sunderland (for those saying it does depend on those two factors).

I think it's a lack of self application that has crept into him and set in and I don't think that it solve itself unless he is forced to by something drastic like being dropped and I don't mean being dropped for an off colour Van Persie either, just drop the two of them and play Welbeck to show them what off the ball movement is and the standard of build up play that we expect from them. The thing that makes me take the hardline stance against those two is that we know what they are capable of on the ball, we know that they are better than Welbeck in build up play but we haven't seen that for a very long time. We can talk about an outlet of pace all we like but we all know that they played together the season before last with shit like Young and Valencia but they were creating goals for each other then so why can't they do so now when steps have been taken to improve the service behind them?
What has changed from the Rooney that was sensational at the start of 2011/12? Application.

 

[Annahnomoss]

It's demented. Every season the fans need a whipping boy. Combination of a herd mentality and desperate need to find someone to blame for any adversity (the last bit is a very modern phenomenon?).

Rooney is the most talented and productive whipping boy I can remember, which makes the witch hunt all the more ludicrous.

Isn't it more about the fact that some players are supposed to be our star players, the ones who wins matches for us and are paid wages to take responsibility and affect results more than anybody else.

Mata is getting the same treatment so far, for the same reason.

I don't justify it, but I don't think there is any need singling out Rooney as a victim of this. In general the Caf is a bashing machine where whenever a player plays bad, all the people who dislike him comes out from the rocks and criticizes him by the heels and when he plays good they disappear and stay mute, until the next bad game when they come out and repeat the same thing.

Shaw is a 19 year old who recently made his first move to a new club and who was played out of position and still people bashed him after some poor displays in pre-season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Isn't it more about the fact that some players are supposed to be our star players, the ones who wins matches for us and are paid wages to take responsibility and affect results more than anybody else.

Mata is getting the same treatment so far, for the same reason.

I don't justify it, but I don't think there is any need singling out Rooney as a victim of this. In general the Caf is a bashing machine where whenever a player plays bad, all the people who dislike him comes out from the rocks and criticizes him by the heels and when he plays good they disappear and stay mute, until the next bad game when they come out and repeat the same thing.

Shaw is a 19 year old who recently made his first move to a new club and who was played out of position and still people bashed him after some poor displays in pre-season.

I think that's all fair points.

What bothers me is the apparent inability to judge each performance on it's own merits. Rooney and RvP were both poor but they were both playing as out and out strikers but got absolutely terrible service. One decent cross and not a single creative through pall over 90 minutes.

In a game like that it's nothing more than sour grapes and typically agenda-filled posting to single out one or other of them and crucify them for their performance.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I think that's all fair points.

What bothers me is the apparent inability to judge each performance on it's own merits. Rooney and RvP were both poor but they were both playing as out and out strikers but got absolutely terrible service. One decent cross and not a single creative through pall over 90 minutes.

In a game like that it's nothing more than sour grapes and typically agenda-filled posting to single out one or other of them and crucify them for their performance.

No doubt. All the players where we have different, but equally good/bad, options seem to suffer from the agenda driven bashing the most. Nani/Kagawa/Valencia for the wing, which all represents a certain style of football. Mata, RVP or Rooney up front as well and Jones/Evans/Smalling at the back.

The constant rotation seems to make everybody a winner/loser and the discussion just keeps on going with every person having their own favorites they'd like to see.

Can't imagine any other forum being so full of hateful bashing over almost all their own players as most teams has a quite a set first eleven. In United not a single player is a clear starter except for Herrera I would say so the discussions continues in circles all season long.

Hopefully LVG will get a working formation with set amount of players and people will probably start focusing on the good things instead of discussing who in the first eleven should be replaced.

 

[Blue always red]

Every great captain needs to lead by example. Wayne needs to step it up and prove to the players that they're still playing for the best club in England.

 

[acnumber9]

Where as RvP, who was worse, seems to get off scott free.

Assumedly because he hasn't done to the club what Rooney has in terms of contracts, even though he did worse to Arsenal than Rooney ever did here and hasn't really been here long enough to do anything like what Rooney did! Not that I'm trying to start a witch-hunt on RvP, or anything, just that it's laughable that Rooney's seen as such a scape goat every time something goes wrong for us, despite usually never being close to our worst player on the day. The idea that he's not worthy of being our captain due to a poor performance or two is also quite laughable.

I see a lot of people claiming Mata will thrive alongside someone as fast as Di Maria, which may be true, but I think Rooney will thrive more than anyone. He's more accustomed than anyone to having a world-class, pacey winger with great delivery alongside him to wreak havoc.

Except he wasn't worse and has only just returned to the team after the World Cup. Maybe that has played a part.

 

[NessunDorma]

Except he wasn't worse and has only just returned to the team after the World Cup. Maybe that has played a part.

It was the same last season though. There were a number of games where he not only played poorly, but actually didn't look arsed - away to Southampton springs to mind. And he just kept on getting a free pass for it.

Personally, i'm not too bothered about that. I'd rather have fans supporting our players through the bad times as well as the good, and everyone knows that RvP is a fantastic footballer who is a huge asset to us at his best.

I just wish some of these people would give Rooney the same benefit of the doubt every now and then.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Every great captain needs to lead by example. Wayne needs to step it up and prove to the players that they're still playing for the best club in England.

There is only so much one player can do, with the utter dross in midfield and on the wings it is unreasonable to expect either Rooney or rvp to be winning us games on their own

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Except he wasn't worse and has only just returned to the team after the World Cup. Maybe that has played a part.

He was considerably less involved, that's for damn sure. 15 passes in 63 minutes vs 48 in 90 (90% completed for Rooney vs 87% for RvP).

Obviously, the fact it was his first game since the WC is a mitigating factor. Also agree with @NessunDorma. Everyone knows RvP is a class footballer, a poor game or two won't change that. Just interesting to note the way Rooney seems to be cut so much less slack than he does.

 

[Blodssvik]

Just hope he won't be angry and confused when he sees Di Maria occupying the space where he used to smash the balls to Valencia.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You are stating facts and glossing over details that are facts as well: wanting to leave twice (officially handing in a transfer request once), publicly undermining the club and only shutting up when he gets a pay rise twice is very much a part of his beautiful and romantic 10 years at United.

He has been here for a long time, and done his job for us but not out of loyalty. Nobody is being a tosser for recognizing that.

Loyalty? Are you serious? Like RVP was loyal to Arsenal? Di Maria to Real, Ronaldo to us and the list is never ending, as long as he does well what he is being paid to do that should be enough, and he is doing a more than excellent job at that. He has been one of our best players over the last ten years and will end up United's top scorer ever passing even Charlton.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Just hope he won't be angry and confused when he sees Di Maria occupying the space where he used to smash the balls to Valencia.

With supporters like you I really wish he would leave and play for another club.

 

[Kevin]

Loyalty? Are you serious? Like RVP was loyal to Arsenal? Di Maria to Real, Ronaldo to us and the list is never ending

Had someone said in the RVP thread what a loyal chap RvP is and how he deserves a pay rise to reward him for that, I would probably have been annoyed enough to shoot him down as well.

A large crowd on here lacking some basic reading skills. And people wonder why I rarely reply to their retorts... not smart enough for me.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Except he wasn't worse and has only just returned to the team after the World Cup. Maybe that has played a part.

he was definitely worse, and yes, the just returning bit did of course play a part.

Still, he gets considerably less stick than Rooney does. From viewing the site last season, even though Rooney was the better player, he still got way more stick.

 

[NessunDorma]

Had someone said in the RVP thread what a loyal chap RvP is and how he deserves a pay rise to reward him for that, I would probably have been annoyed enough to shoot him down as well.

A large crowd on here lacking some basic reading skills. And people wonder why I rarely reply to their retorts... not smart enough for me.

How did this one turn out for you then? Kevin in May, on LvG and Rooney:

Yours and similar posts have been bookmarked by me.

Van Gaal has gone on record to absolutely destroy Rooney's footballing qualities on Dutch tv 6 years ago.

And that was when he was actually good. Let us see if his opinion has changed.

 

[acnumber9]

He was considerably less involved, that's for damn sure. 15 passes in 63 minutes vs 48 in 90 (90% completed for Rooney vs 87% for RvP).

Obviously, the fact it was his first game since the WC is a mitigating factor. Also agree with @NessunDorma. Everyone knows RvP is a class footballer, a poor game or two won't change that. Just interesting to note the way Rooney seems to be cut so much less slack than he does.

Van Persie contributed more with those touches I would argue. He was involved in the goal with good hold up play and his run at there defence was sadly our best attack after the goal. Neither were to the standard required though.

 

[acnumber9]

Loyalty? Are you serious? Like RVP was loyal to Arsenal? Di Maria to Real, Ronaldo to us and the list is never ending, as long as he does well what he is being paid to do that should be enough, and he is doing a more than excellent job at that. He has been one of our best players over the last ten years and will end up United's top scorer ever passing even Charlton.

Van Perise left Arsenal for a better shot at winning the league. What was Rooney's excuse for acting a twat?

 

[Kevin]

With supporters like you I really wish he would leave and play for another club.

Oh god yes. I'd gladly go the rest of this window without another signing if it happened.

He is a nothing player.

How did this one turn out for you then? Kevin in May, on LvG and Rooney:

You didn't have to go that far back to quote a post in which I said I find him a rather overrated player.

I do not rate him as a footballer, I've not even hidden that in my recent posts on here. Failure to seperate the fact that I was discussing the ridiculous comment about him being rewarded for his loyalty and my personal opinion of his footballing qualities highlight yet again how meagre your reading skills are...

Sigh...

As for my answer to that question, trawl a few days back in my posting archive (since you are in stalker mode like 99 percent of my fans) and you will find I have already laughed at your early optimism of Rooney's relationship with van Gaal.

Give it time. Remember these three legendary words next season.

 

[Blue always red]

Too many people forget this guy is Liverpudlian and probably has no real heartfelt love for the club. Both times he's asked for a transfer are times when the club looks like it is going to decline, when we lost Ronny and didn't replace him and when Fergie left. What he has done on the pitch is the utmost respectable.

 

[DWelbz19]

I think Rooney and van Persie can be excused to a decent extent for last game. They barely saw the ball! Our midfield and wingers would get them the ball in 'nothing' situations, forcing them to come backward and continue the sluggish passing. Perhaps they could have both been better in their movement but I do feel it was just 'one of those games'. The snide comment about Rooney being angry with di Maria is nonsense, his pace and ability to inject venom into an attack will benefit our forwards considerably.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Oh god yes. I'd gladly go the rest of this window without another signing if it happened.

He is a nothing player.

No you're a nothing supporter, just change your username to Rooney hater will you.

 

[NessunDorma]

Oh god yes. I'd gladly go the rest of this window without another signing if it happened.

He is a nothing player.


You didn't have to go that far back to quote a post in which I said I find him a rather overrated player.

I do not rate him as a footballer, I've not even hidden that in my recent posts on here. Failure to seperate the fact that I was discussing the ridiculous comment about him being rewarded for his loyalty and my personal opinion of his footballing qualities highlight yet again how meagre your reading skills are...

Sigh...

It's more that you spent a couple of days heavily implying that LvG didn't rate Rooney, and would basically chuck him out of the club first chance he got. And that people arguing otherwise would be shown up when the time came (hence you threatening to 'bookmark' their posts, for some 'I Told You So!' fun down the line).

LvG then comes in and makes Rooney his captain, while praising him at every available opportunity.

It wouldn't be so bad, if you didn't come across as being so arrogant and condescending in your persistent wrongness.

 

[Kevin]

No you're a nothing supporter, just change your username to Rooney hater will you.

No, I can perfectly seperate my dislike for a player and still rate his footballing qualities and contribution to our team. It becomes rather difficult to advocate for said player's prolonged stay in said team if he actually has a detrimental effect to it.

No hard feelings, I just believe it is best for United and Rooney that they walk seperate roads. Like Scholes said, he is only going to get worse.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Van Perise left Arsenal for a better shot at winning the league. What was Rooney's excuse for acting a twat?

What's Di Maria's excuse?

 

[Kevin]

It's more that you spent a couple of days heavily implying that LvG didn't rate Rooney, and would basically chuck him out of the club first chance he got. And that people arguing otherwise would be shown up when the time came (hence you threatening to 'bookmark' their posts, for some 'I Told You So!' fun down the line).

LvG then comes in and makes Rooney his captain, while praising him at every available opportunity.

It wouldn't be so bad, if you didn't come across as being so arrogant and condescending in your persistent wrongness.

I wouldn't gloat so much yet. You have missed my golden edit.

Give it time. One season and he will come to the same conclusion as I do. Bookmark this my friendly stalker.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Still remain of the opinion that Rooney peaked a while back. Could easily name 10 strikers on less money than him who are better strikers nowadays.

United's wage structure rewards loyalty. There were four or five imports brought in for nearly double his wage who hadn't even kicked a ball in the league yet. Put it into perspective.

Had someone said in the RVP thread what a loyal chap RvP is and how he deserves a pay rise to reward him for that, I would probably have been annoyed enough to shoot him down as well.

A large crowd on here lacking some basic reading skills. And people wonder why I rarely reply to their retorts... not smart enough for me.

A wonderfully ironic post.

The only mention of loyalty is in the context of our wage structure. The longer top players stay at United, the more they can expect to earn. Doesn't matter a jot how close they come to leaving during negotiations. So long as they eventually sign on the dotted line they can expect to be financially rewarded for their decision to remain at the club. It's a simple concept, which someone with as high an opinion of their own intelligence as you evidently do should have been able to grasp.

Nobody is saying we should be buying Rooney a frigging gold carriage clock, or building statues outside the ground (although that might happen one day, if he continues scoring at his current rate for the duration of his latest contract) All that was pointed out to you was the simple fact that when the most prolific goal-scorer at one of the wealthiest clubs around signs a 5 and half year contract after already playing in the first-team of said club for 10 years, then he can expect to be very well paid for having made such a long-term commitment to the club. If using the phrase "wage structure rewards loyalty" as short-hand for this blew your tiny mind, well that says more about you than it does about anything else.

 

[Kevin]

A wonderfully ironic post.

The only mention of loyalty is in the context of our wage structure. The longer top players stay at United, the more they can expect to earn. Doesn't matter a jot how close they come to leaving during negotiations. So long as they eventually sign on the dotted line they can expect to be financially rewarded for their decision to remain at the club. It's a simple concept, which someone with as high an opinion of their own intelligence as you evidently do should have been able to grasp.

Nobody is saying we should be buying Rooney a frigging gold carriage clock, or building statues outside the ground (although that might happen one day, if he continues scoring at his current rate for the duration of his latest contract) All that was pointed out to you was the simple fact that when the most prolific goal-scorer at one of the wealthiest clubs around signs a 5 and half year contract after already playing in the first-team of said club for 10 years, then he can expect to be very well paid for having made such a long-term commitment to the club. If using the phrase "wage structure rewards loyalty" as short-hand for this blew your tiny mind, well that says more about you than it does about anything else.

He obviously does harbor the thought that Rooney has been loyal to us when I read the subsequent exchanges we had, but reflecting on his initial post that attracted my ire, you are indeed correct... to my great annoyance.

Apologies to the man.

Rooney has to go though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He obviously does harbor the thought that Rooney has been loyal to us when I read the subsequent exchanges we had, but reflecting on his initial post that attracted my ire, you are indeed correct... to my great annoyance.

Apologies to the man.

Rooney has to go though.

fair play.

Have a lot of admiration for people who admit they're wrong on here. All the more so, when it comes in response to a condescending broadside from an irritating bastard like me.

I disagree on Rooney but other opinions are allowed. I don't really think the RvP /Rooney partnership is the way forward, so can certainly see why people think one or other of them must go.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He's such a bemusing player. I don't get how he has so many poor and clumsy touches in a game.

Really hope it clicks for him quickly for our sake, and I don't just mean goals.

 

[acnumber9]

What's Di Maria's excuse?

Players being signed to replace him?

 

[Escobar]

Question is if he really has the squad behind him

 

[NoWinNoFee]

Maybe now might be a good time to move him into a more midfield role, could save us £40m for Vidal and we could stop trying to find a way to accommodate both he and RVP in a strikers role.

 

[ZDwyr]

Maybe now might be a good time to move him into a more midfield role, could save us £40m for Vidal and we could stop trying to find a way to accommodate both he and RVP in a strikers role.

Unfortunately, it is a position which Rooney hates and has yet to show he can actually play.

 

[Blue always red]

Players being signed to replace him?

Kind of similar to seeing Ronaldo walk out the door and seeing Valencia walk in? Or maybe Kagawa and RVP being signed?

 

[LeChuck]

We should have got rid of him the summer after SAF retired. Now we're shoehorning him into a side at the cost of an extra midfielder, and it's affecting our overall play.

I think if Gill had stayed on in the 2013 summer, he would have finalised Rooney's move out of the club.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Maybe now might be a good time to move him into a more midfield role, could save us £40m for Vidal and we could stop trying to find a way to accommodate both he and RVP in a strikers role.

He's an average midfielder. I'd consider playing him in the crisis scenario we are currently in when it comes to midfield but not otherwise.

 

[markhrad]

It may be pointless to argue with those of you who are fans of Rooney, the mere fact that you are fans limits your objectivity. I do not care about his off-field shenanigans or if he did indeed wanted to leave the club on two occasions. My concern is that he is not good enough to be the focal point of our team.
When he is surrounded by very good players or players in form he will do a good job but the same applies to all good players.
He, however, is not world class. He is a good but limited player who found himself in the right place at the right time.
Just really look at his play, his ball control, passing ability short and long, dribbling skills and ability to create for himself and others. He really is not that good.
Those that praise him commonly speak of his work rate and passion, not his ball skills.
His stats are impressive but he has been playing for 10 years in an extremely successful club. Any good striker if he stayed that long would have similar or better stats.
If the team is to revolve around him we will not win anything. His role should be nothing more than ancillary.

 

[Nighteyes]

It may be pointless to argue with those of you who are fans of Rooney, the mere fact that you are fans limits your objectivity.

You are the very last person who should complain about a lack of objectivity.

Do you think Rooney ordered LVG and Woody to loan Nani?

 

[markhrad]

You are the very last person who should complain about a lack of objectivity.

Do you think Rooney ordered LVG and Woody to loan Nani?

Do not create things to further your point. I never said or implied that.