I thought Rooney saw him at the game.
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I thought Rooney saw him at the game.
He wasn't good, by far our worst perfomer, yet he kept on trying, bullying Skrtel and their defence and didn't completely sulk down.
He really wasn't that bad, and he would have had a certain goal if Di Maria could just complete a simple short pass to him without fecking up on that counter.
If anything, it's kind of refreshing that we don't need our striker to be having a good game to - a) put in a good team performance and b) score goals... we've been so reliant on our strikers in recent years.
We do need them to work as hard as Rooney did yesterday, mind you. Crap and all as he was on the ball he ran the channels and dragged their central defenders out of position. I don't think either of our goals would have happened with RvP or Falcao playing instead of him.
I wonder how Rooney is going to fit in next season? Is he good enough to play the lone striker role, even when you consider the other strikers on the market we might try and buy? I mean he's our best striker right now, but he has his limitations in a lone striker role. I certainly dont want to see him back in midfield either, at least not in this 4-1-4-1 style formation we've been playing.
Haven't we been playing 433? I think he'd be good all across the front three. He's always tended to drift left when playing up top anyway. Seems to like to attack from that area of the pitch.
I wouldnt say so. Like all these things it depends on how it unfolds in real time, and from game to game the formation could end up very different in the end. Our team starts with a flat 4 in the middle though, with Young and Mata out on the wing. Obviously Mata drifted a lot and the formations are a bit academic once the game is in motion. Young was certainly playing as a winger though.
That formation above was how I saw the game.
It's 4-3-3 in attack but 4-1-4-1 when we defend. At least that's what LvG said.
I wouldnt say so. Like all these things it depends on how it unfolds in real time, and from game to game the formation could end up very different in the end. Our team starts with a flat 4 in the middle though, with Young and Mata out on the wing. Obviously Mata drifted a lot and the formations are a bit academic once the game is in motion. Young was certainly playing as a winger though.
That formation above was how I saw the game.
Potatoes, po-tah-toes. I saw Hererra, Fellaini and Carrick playing as central midfielders, with Rooney, Mata and Young ahead of them.
Like you say, though, formations are only fixed on paper. The same adaptability which has seen Mata play Rooney as a CM regularly this season, means he'll get his game next season regardless. Even if we sign a superstar loan striker. As per my previous post, I think he'd be good on the left of a front three.
Hmm, not sure I'd agree. Look at the heatmaps and Young, Herrera, Felllaini and Mata definitely played in a line, with Young and Mata playing quite wide. Obviously Mata was the one that got forward yesterday to good effect. Last week it was Fellaini though.
TBF Van Persie takes them when he's fit. Asides from Rooney yesterday we had an out of form Falcao and a Mata whose only other penalty I can remember was dumped straight into the goalkeeper's hands in the 2012 Champions League final; no-one else that readily takes them and was also on the pitch springs to mind.
Had a bit of a shocker (as usual) on Merseyside yesterday. Its got to the stage where he should just be dropped for games away at Liverpool/Everton. It was obvious he would miss the penalty.
Hope this doesn't lead to him being pushed back into midfield though.
Hope this doesn't lead to him being pushed back into midfield though.
Really? Pretty sure Fellaini had a big part to play in occupying their defenders too, and only you would use Rooneys performance yesterday as something to have another dig at our other strikers. Pretty sure those goals wouldn't have happened without mata on the pitch. Do you remember the last Liverpool game when RVP was one of our best players?
Unless of course you think Moreno didn't lose his man for both goals? Don't see what that has to do with Rooney playing personally.
Yep. Can't remember our midfield scoring as many goals as this year since Ronaldo left. Mata has 8, Herrera and Fellaini have 5 each, Di Maria has scored 4, Bind has 2 and Carrick has 1. 25 goals from central midfielders, quite good return. Usually it was only strikers and wingers scoring goals for us.
Saying that, Rooney was shocking yesterday. There is some black magic spell on him for this game, it always happens.
It's not a tricky concept to grasp. What might help would be reading the post you just responded to.
By running the channels and dragging the CBs out of position that creates space for other players to exploit. The space between Moreno and his CB, for example, that Mata ran into when he scored his first goal. Even a crap performance from a striker (and that was a crap performance) can be mitigated by hard work and a willingness to run around a lot. The latter two qualities being notably absent from almost all of RvP's performances in the last 12-18 months.
Agreed and this is roughly what I have been saying regarding Rooney's performance yesterday and again I will pose the question - who else would we have played who would have done better [than Rooney]?
You are just blatantly biased when it comes to describing his performances and If you watched many Liverpool games you would see their centre backs getting pulled out of position more often than not and it's something that was picked up on earlier in the season them leaving huge gaps. Nothing to do with Rooney playing. I like how you conveniently compare his game to RVPs worst performances when the team was disjointed with a crap midfield and past it Falcao up top. Funnily out best 2 games of the season are when we have a proper midfield who can play together. How are you meant to know how van Persie would have played considering he's not had the luxury of playing infront of the proper midfield we had yesterday and last week, without Falcao hindering the team? I'm saying that and I liked Rooneys game against Spurs but come on to say the goals wouldn't have happened if he wasn't playing? Surely you don't believe that.
That's not the point. He said the goals wouldn't have happened if Rooney wasn't on the pitch which is just clear biased nonsense.
Its impossible to say one way or another. However I dont think it is outlandish to say that with RVP or Falcao up front instead of Rooney, we would not have had nearly as much movement, and our ability to press Liverpool would have been diminished also.
It's just another stick to beat them players with when they didn't have the luxury of playing infront of a balanced team. RVP has showed plenty in the past that he can cause centre backs lots of problems, heck he done it last time he played Liverpool, and the best defence in the league (this season) earlier on when he didn't have Falcao up beside him. Rooney's always rubbish at Anfield, we all accept that by now but lets not pretend he was instrumental in yesterdays win when he clearly wasn't. Liverpool's defence is always there for the taking.
That all depends if we do go out and try to buy more strikers. If we keep Hernandez when he comes back, we'll have Rooney, RVP, Wilson, and of course Hernandez too, presuming we don't extend Falcao's spell here. That combination of four, while far from perfect, is fairly decent. I'd argue that central defence, potentially right back, and maybe even central midfield which still has its weaknesses will be seen as greater areas of priority in the transfer market. Unless Rooney's form really goes to shit, I can see him being our main striker up front next season, although obviously a lot can change.
I have never claimed that Rooney was instrumental, simply that he offered some qualities that our other strikers dont, and that he did contribute to the win despite not getting on the scoresheet and missing a penalty. I think I rated him a 5, my second lowest (lowest was Di Maria) from the team.
Regarding RVP, he is deteriorating due to his age and hasnt performed well since the world cup, really. Some of this may be due to our poor form for the first half of the season, but RVP at this stage of his career is a pure poacher. His movement in and around the opposition box is probably still good (match fitness issues aside), but he doesnt have anything like the same energy or workrate as the likes of Rooney or Fellaini. I like RVP as a player, and he has some of the best technique in the world, but I dont think we can really justify including him in big away games like Anfield.
He possibly is deteriorating, and he isn't able to play week in week out, but I don't see why he should be judged so harshly for the failed partnership with a past it Falcao, with Rooney and Blind sitting in midfield when the team were clearly struggling as a whole. RVP has had some games this season which were fantastic and some where he was invisible, and he's never been the kind of striker to chase down defenders and run about all match. Heck, Rooney's work rate wasn't as good as it usually is yesterday. RVP does guarantee good hold up play though, and not giving the ball away to lead counter attacks for the opposition. He still has something to offer.
RVP definitely has something to offer, and I would be happy for us to keep him next season. However I feel my point stands that he is not a player we want to be starting in tough away matches at the moment. Simply put, in games like Anfield we cannot have any passengers - everyone on the team must be able to contribute and work. I think that with Rooney, even when he has a poor game, he still contributes and influences the match. With RVP on the other hand, if he has a bad game we may as well be playing with 10 men. For what its worth, I put Mata into that category as well.
Yeah, has he ever had a good game there? Not that i can remember. Lets just hope he shows up for the game against City
He's done well since we've at last moved to a one striker system but yesterday, in our biggest game of the season against our fiercest rivals, his performance was totally unacceptable. It really is inexplicable how suddenly his entire game can go to shit and we ended up winning in spite of him. By all means he deserves to continue in the same role and I have no doubt he will put in a better performance against villa but yesterday was another reminder IMO that Rooney is indeed a player in decline and if united really are as serious about swiftly getting back to the summit of the game as they say they are then I do honestly think that trying for a top quality centre forward e.g. Lewandowski this summer is the right idea. If not then (considering the business we intend to do to strengthen all our other areas that need reinforcing) I think that the striker position could be a weak point for us next season when we move to the 4-3-3.
This wasn't a good performance as he was quite sloppy on the ball and not so good with his passing. However, he wasn't a total liability up front and still contributed to stretching Liverpool's defence and causing them problems. Quite often, Skrtel had a tough time dealing with Rooney, and him and Sakho were getting attracted to his movement quite often. Two of those moments resulted in the two goals we scored. I'm glad to see that, even if he was not performing well, he was still sharp enough to cause Liverpool's defence problems with his movement and positioning.
Still, though, that doesn't excuse the fact that he didn't have a very good performance. His sloppiness on the ball was quite annoying to see.
Still, though, that doesn't excuse the fact that he didn't have a very good performance. His sloppiness on the ball was quite annoying to see.
I watched the game back last night and he was even worse than I remembered. I criticised Di Maria for repeatedly giving the ball away when he came on but Rooney was just as bad in the first half. It's amazing that we managed to play so well in despite him being so poor.
I wouldnt say so. Like all these things it depends on how it unfolds in real time, and from game to game the formation could end up very different in the end. Our team starts with a flat 4 in the middle though, with Young and Mata out on the wing. Obviously Mata drifted a lot and the formations are a bit academic once the game is in motion. Young was certainly playing as a winger though.
That formation above was how I saw the game.
Definite 433. From van Gaal's mouth and also those graphics that show a players average position throughout the game.
Not sure why there's such a big discussion on Rooney's performance. It's Wayne Rooney, he serves up this type of performance every so often and has done since forever.
He'll score against Villa.
He'll score against Villa.
I posted this elsewhere but think it deserseves a mention in the Rooney thread...
I agree Rooney did not play well yesterday. But watch this video esp around 4:42 mark where we see all the work Rooney put in that goes unnoticed most of the time. But because he was willing to do that work, even when his "A" game was missing, allowed us as a team to impose our will for the first 30 mins...
http://www.lfc.vn/motd1/motd-liverpool-man-utd-s15-w30/2/
*Also if you watch carefully you can clearly see us line up in a 4-1-4-1 defensively,
And yeah I know it is a Pool site, sorry about that
.Agree. He was actually very efficient off the ball in pressing and closing down the channels, won a few knock downs against Skrtel for layoffs to partners, and as someone pointed out, would have had a goal had Di Maria not completely missed his pass on the break. He wasn't a liability at all when moved into midfield I thought, did what he had to to finish off the game.
I agree his passing was off though, and the performance was below par compared to the rejuvenated stuff we've seen recently, but then again that happens at Goodison and Anfield, whatever his form of the moment is.
I wouldnt say so. Like all these things it depends on how it unfolds in real time, and from game to game the formation could end up very different in the end. Our team starts with a flat 4 in the middle though, with Young and Mata out on the wing. Obviously Mata drifted a lot and the formations are a bit academic once the game is in motion. Young was certainly playing as a winger though.
That formation above was how I saw the game.
Yep, had no idea LvG confirmed it, but that's what I thought as well, the shape is different when we're defending and when we're on the ball.
Actually, loads of players, including top players, have bad games.
Yeah, but considering his history, being an Evertonian, and then a United player, it's quite amazing how consistently poor hes been against Liverpool. Even more so, when you consider he was on fire against Spurs just a week ago. It's quite clear he hates them, and considering his mentality in big games, it's weird he never shows up against them.
Indeed. Few top players look as bad as Rooney does though when he's having one of his bad games.
Perhaps he tries too hard?
@Rooney in Dublin
See my follow up post (in the spoiler). The graphics clearly that show all four players played in a straight line across the middle.
Suppose it depends on who does the graphic (from the beeb):
That still shows the four players in a line across the middle
lol-grow up.
It was selfish. It's selfish to want to take a penalty if your record isn't good and you deny a teammate a hatrick away at your biggest rivals. Selfish. Please understand this. If it was Phil Jones on a hatrick, then I can understand Rooney taking it. If there was 20+ min to play, then I can maybe understand this as well.
The fact is, it was deep into injury time, Rooney had a shocker so far, Mata was having a good game, and he's technically proficient, and he's on a hat trick away to our biggest rivals. Even Rooney admitted after the game he should have given it to Mata...so the striker himself admitted he was selfish.
But thanks for your contribution.
It's widely known that AVB wanted Mata to be Chelsea's primary penalty taker. In fact, there's an article about it. I even remember there being a discussion about it on the pitch between Lampard, Droggers and Mata (against I think Man City). I doubt AvB would choose an incompetent penalty taker for Chelsea, especially considering the amount of penalties they get.
Mata was also the 2nd in line penalty taker at Valencia (after David Villa), so again, I doubt he'd be given that position if he was crap at penalties.
Mata is a gentleman-I remember in a League Cup game for Chelsea, he offered the penalty to Torres as he was on a barren run (which he turned down), so it's not much surprise that he didn't complain much when Rooney took the ball.
I agree to an extent, but I stand by what I said, as does Rooney.
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