..well....I dare say Scholes "bottom level" will probably sink a bit lower this season, bless him
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
- Status
..well....I dare say Scholes "bottom level" will probably sink a bit lower this season, bless him
Yes he does look trim and fit. Getting himself ready for the Argie summer as soon as we reach December or January. Then he will be off to the beach.
December or January..........Hmmmmmmmm Maybe Rooney will find some form by then?
A bit over critical don't you think?
Over critical? It's complete nonsense.
File under everything else that particular poster has ever posted about Rooney.
File under everything else that particular poster has ever posted about Rooney.
Paul Scholes, of course!
Even I am not a sneaky with stats as that Pogue! Fellani exposed us with his physicality, not his technical ability. Rooney did a few good things last night, at one point he covered Evra brilliantly, but for the most part he was ponderous.
In the interest of balance: Everton played very well last night, their team and their fans were up for it; they utilised a long ball tactic that worked to a tee, they took advantage of our makeshift defender for their goal and they defended brilliantly. We had to be close to our best to beat them last night but a fair few of our players fell some way short of that.
Do you know if Everton have a narrow pitch? It certainly seems that way, those pitches don't suit our style of play either.
He's playing like he did most of last season. Difference here is he didn't get a goal or two to mask his poor performance.
that's why Rooney doesn't get dropped...because often out of the blue he slams one in, and that is worth it.
Well no but Rooney got on the ball more often than Fellaini did and was more likely to find a team mate when he passed it on. All of which speaks volumes when you see the praise Fellaini's been getting (and he was excellent) compared to the dog's abuse for Rooney.
And no, I'm not saying Rooney played better than Fellaini. He clearly didn't. Just taking exception to the way he's being portrayed as someone who is either world class or a pub footballer, who couldn't pass water. In reality, his workrate and willingness to be involved bring a lot to the team, even if he's not playing very well. Those stats certainly contradict a lot of the shit posted about him in the last 12 hours.
He's still incredibly wasteful with the ball, meaning he's detrimental when he's not scoring. Not so clear cut a case for being automatic starter imo.
Yeah righto chap, so file all of the positive comments from last season under rubbish as well, but dont let that detract from the usual arrogant "Im Pogue, Im always right, and anyone who dares to hold a contrary opinion to me is a fool" stance will you.
Maybe so, but surely Im not the only one that is sick and tired of the same early seaon shit from Rooney, every season he has been woefully unprepared to get on with the job he payed extremely well to do, baring last season.
Well hopefully he will turn things around. Thing is all these comments after just the starting match of the season will look a bit silly if he turns things on which I am pretty sure he will. I for one don't like singling players out and I don't think he has deserved the bashing as he certainly did not cost the game. Besides there were several others who were equally out of form and had a bad game.No individual player really cost us the game.Rather the Evertonians had an absolute blinder.
Rooney will come good. There are posters who get frustrated by his performances and understandably so but SAF, a man who knows quite a bit of football knows what our no.10 is capable of. The season has just started, I'm looking at 30 goals and 10 assists this season by Wayne. Very doable in my opinion.
Im sure he will come good, but due to the way he held the club to ransom to line his own pockets I expect fecking sensational performances and ultimate profesionalism from him at all times, totally unrealistic I know, but he brought it on by being a complete bell end.
How very true.
Ye got to let it go Sparks. Let it go.
Nah, he may have the money, the cars, the lavish lifestyle and adulation of millions, but Ill always have my rightous indignation
The season before last he got a goal and two assists in his first few games and linked up really well with Berbatov. He then went on and got a goal and three assists in his next two games with England, including one of his best performances in an England shirt.
The season before that he scored 6 goals in his first 7 games, including goals against City, Tottenham and Arsenal. In 07/08 he scored 6 in his first 7 games. In 06/07 he scored twice and assisted once in one of our best opening day performances under Sir Alex. In 05/06 he scored 5 in his first 8. In 04/05 he scored a hat-trick on his debut.
Talking shit again mate.
Typical over reaction to it really. It's good to know the additions we have made mean we shouldn't have to rely on Rooney rhough. He should know he's droppable.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is hard evidence of the massive fecking gap between the opinions of a bunch of people on here - when it comes to Wayne Rooney - and reality.
As with all stats, they're completely useless unless you see them in a bigger picture. That stat doesn't tell you how many times Rooney actually lost the ball, which was the main problem for me last night - almost every time he tried to take on a man he got tackled. To be fair to Rooney, that could be said about pretty much the entire team though. Which is probably why most of the team stopped trying and instead tried to confuse Everton by repeatedly passing it across their defence and back.
The situation that really stuck out for me was towards the end of first half (I think at least), when one of our players played a very good pass forward towards Rooney, but for some reason Rooney was on his heels and an Everton defender got to the ball first. I do of course know that you can misunderstand a team mate and that it happens pretty much every game, but as I remember that situation Rooney simply looked like he wasn't prepared for that pass despite being in a favourable position to receive one. I know this is a lot to read into just one situation - and I'm not usually one to do that, because I know stuff happens during a game - but it just sums up what I've seen from him for long spells during the past years.
Of course Rooney wasn't miles worse than any other player yesterday, but he was definitely among the worst. And as Rooney is supposed to be our best player (or at least one of them) of course he'll get more criticism. When he seems off his game for longer durations of time that criticism will only get worse, which in my mind is completely understandable. You expect supposedly "world class" strikers to turn around the game for you now and then, but it seems like an awful long time ago Rooney did that. He had some good games last season and the one before that of course, but his bottom level looks to be just above Heskey's these days which frankly isn't good enough. Especially when he goes through rather long periods with these.
This wouldn't of course be as big a problem if Rooney's hadn't been an automatic starter for the past few years and I really don't know if sticking with Rooney no matter what has been the right decision for Ferguson. Seeing as he's usually a brilliant man-manager I have no doubt he's done what he thought was best for Rooney, but you have to wonder if getting benched once in a while could've reignited some of that fire Rooney seems to be missing. I don't know if Rooney's gotten too casual because he feels his spot is secure, but to me it does look like it sometimes. With RvP's arrival Rooney most likely isn't guaranteed a starting spot any longer so it'll definitely be interesting to see how he reacts if he's starting on the bench for several games in a row.
Rooney'll probably score 2 and set up another one or two next weekend.
Always shit on Merseyside, always.
Not that that's an excuse, but I don't have any fears about the league's consistently best player over the last 6 years finding form.
Always shit on Merseyside, always.
Not that that's an excuse, but I don't have any fears about the league's consistently best player over the last 6 years finding form.
Rooney struggled against a Distin who was on fire for Everton, and when Distin plays like that he is a monster; very fast (outpaced Rooney) and built like a tank. Jagielka also had a great game.
Let's not get carried away here; almost all of Everton's players played at the best, whereas United looked a bit rusty.
Rooney was a bit poor - he gives the ball away too much with a heavy touch. But to say that he is shite is laughable.
Let's not get carried away here; almost all of Everton's players played at the best, whereas United looked a bit rusty.
Rooney was a bit poor - he gives the ball away too much with a heavy touch. But to say that he is shite is laughable.
Rooney is clearly not shite. But this thread is Rooney world class, and for me he doesn't look it any longer.
Wrold class players make the difference, and although that can't be expected every game, you expect to see something, even glimpses that clearly seperate them from the good players.
I just don't see it with rooney. He is supposed to be our playmaker, our special talent. But he no longer shows much sign of special ability. He scores goals for us, but for someone who plays as many games for us as he does, you would surely expect that.
It is the other parts of his game, his touch, and general ability that should make it clear he is something out of the ordinary. I just don't see much evidence of that gulf in class anymore, nothing like when he was younger. He was regularly scoring fantastic goals and putting in the type of performances that had you off your seat.
I don't think it's unfair to say he is nowhere near the player he once was, and hasn't been for some time.
Wrold class players make the difference, and although that can't be expected every game, you expect to see something, even glimpses that clearly seperate them from the good players.
I just don't see it with rooney. He is supposed to be our playmaker, our special talent. But he no longer shows much sign of special ability. He scores goals for us, but for someone who plays as many games for us as he does, you would surely expect that.
It is the other parts of his game, his touch, and general ability that should make it clear he is something out of the ordinary. I just don't see much evidence of that gulf in class anymore, nothing like when he was younger. He was regularly scoring fantastic goals and putting in the type of performances that had you off your seat.
I don't think it's unfair to say he is nowhere near the player he once was, and hasn't been for some time.
You're not seriously suggesting that for a striker to score as many goals as Rooney has done for United, all he needs to do is play as many games as he does and the goals will automatically follow?
And he usually follows it up with a mini drought, usually due to him getting injured or his personal life, before getting his form back around Dec or Jan. That's how Wayne is, he has terrible luck with injuries and he's the type of player where his off-the-pitch problems usually affects his performances too.
Would agree with this. With Van Persie signed and Kagawa looking every bit the number 10 we need then Rooney has an awful lot of work to put in to ensure he's not sat next to Anderson regularly. I think this is partly Fergie's thinking though. Wayne has be in dire need of solid senior competition for a few seasons, if not just to take the pressure off when he's in a goal drought or bad spell.
He's definitely an automatic starter, thankfully we have his entire career for us as evidence of why he should be. I've pointed out his bottom level, the periods he goes missing and the fact he struggles with consistency, but dropping him won't help that at all. Think about the periods he was going through a rough patch last season, but still bagged a goal, or even two in games where he was largely ineffective aside from that. I'm not sure what the solution is either, but I can't see time off the pitch as the real answer.
Question is though if you've got a Kagawa and Van Persie partnership that's scoring goals and having a greater impact on all round play then why do you persist in fitting Rooney in elsewhere? After one game we certainly aren't at that point but we haven't bought Van Persie or Kagawa as back up and unless Wayne does enough to show that he should be ahead of either of those in central attacking positions then why should he start or push either of those from their best positions?
Fergie can and will play all three of them.
I think we'll see a lot of RvP up top, with Rooney, Kagawa and A.N. Other behind him in a 4231.
Assuming we're luckier with injuries up top than we are in defence(!) it's Hernandez, Welbeck, Young, Nani and Valencia who will have to get used with spending a fair bit of time on the bench.
Problem is if he gets dropped, it will cause a media storm which brings all the unwanted distraction along with it, and worse than that, Rooney will go off on a strop and put in another transfer request.
Dropping him isn't the best option, but sometimes I feel he should be subbed off after a performance like that. Other strikers will never have a chance if we have players who are simply untouchable. Not that I expected Berbatov to come on or that, but Rooney and Nani clearly weren't working last night, Nani came off but Rooney stayed on and continued to stink the place out.
Fergie's subbed Rooney a good few times in the past.
Last night Rooney looked a lot more likely to create something than Nani did. It was the correct decision to leave him on the pitch and take Nani off.
We made the right substitutions, we just waited too long to actually make them
You're missing my point Pogue, probably on purpose i would suggest!
Is rooney a wc striker or a wc player?
For me a striker can be wc and still be dependent on service. A wc player is not dependent on service, when they get on the ball they make things happen, they have the ability to change the game by what they can provide to their team by their own contribution.
They should have something extra that others do not have that clearly sets them apart. I don't see that any longer with Rooney, he used to have it, but no more.
Put it another way; would you expect a first-choice striker at United to score less?
Scoring-wise Rooney have had some pretty decent seasons, but he's not really breaking any records. I don't think we really expected Rooney to, because there's so much more about his game - he like (or rather "liked"?) to drop deep and be a part of the build-up play. He also liked sprinting back to get back possession. Recently a lot of these "extra aspects" seems to be gone (or reduced at the very least) - whether it's Rooney's or Ferguson's choice is of course unknown, although thinking back a few seasons where he scored a lot of headers it does seem like it's Ferguson who wanted him to stay higher up the pitch so he's always in an attacking position. A lot of people complained about Rooney being too far back when we needed him up front when he played with Tevez, but you don't hear that complaint any longer. Of course changing his game isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's probably not even 100% Rooney's own choice. On his good days his passing is of course still excellent, and it's what sets him apart from other strikers.
Went out on a tangent here, but I hope you understand my point. I realise that my last posts in this thread has been very negative, so I should probably make it clear that I'd love for Rooney to hit good form and play as good as we know he can for a long duration. He is up there with the very best when he's at his best and is truly a delight to watch. It just saddens me that we've seen so little of that "top form" for a long time now.
I've seen plenty of players who've tried to become first-choice but failed to score enough goals to secure their place. You're putting the cart before the horse there.
We saw it as recently as last season. His form in the opening games was probably the best in a United shirt so far. A bit up and down from that point onwards but his tally of goals speaks for itself. I just don't buy this argument that he's somehow scoring a shit-load of goals purely on the basis that he's lucky enough to get picked regularly to play for Manchester United. If he wasn't as productive/effective as he has been these last few years he wouldn't get picked. Simple as that. Fergie's shown himself to be ruthless plenty of times in the past when any given player is not doing his bit for the cause.
It's been a recurring theme on here, people talking about Rooney as though he's somehow regressed as a footballer. I couldn't disagree more. He's always been somewhat inconsistent. He's always blown hot and cold. In recent years he's been able to keep on scoring goals, even when he's struggling for form. This is testament to his continuing development as a footballer, rather than some sort of happy coincidence. Previously these spells of poor form would mean goal droughts, not least in his debut season which everyone seems to recall him as being a scouse Messi but - in reality - he went a dozen or so consecutive league games without scoring a single goal and scored just 17 goals by season's end.
Obviously, we're all hoping to see more conistency in terms of his form. There's no reason to think this won't happen and it's crazy that so many people are wheeling out all the old criticisms after 90 minutes of football in which the service in to our forwards was almost nonexistent. I can guarantee that a lot of the comments on this thread in the last 12 hours will look borderline hysterical in a couple of weeks time. Wait and see.
- Status