Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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tombombadil said:
You are seriously going to insist they are the worst you have ever seen in your entire life? I guess you don't watch much football then. Whatever floats your boat, man.

But first I need to correct a few misconceptions.:-

1) Both of them playing centrally is not really an issue. Dwight Yorke and Andy Cole are proof of that. Many strike partnerships are like that.

2) While Rooney and RvP both play centrally, Rooney plays very deep while RvP plays up front most of the time. So they're not even covering the same areas of the pitch.

3) SAF did not pull Rooney down to midfield because the partnership sucked. That just doesn't make sense. He did that because we needed Rooney to back up the midfield as an extra man especially because many teams play with 3 in the middle these days. He's been doing that for quite awhile before that season.

Seriously, we really need to stop with the baseless exaggerations.
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Rooney and RVP are both world class strikers, after Messi they were up there competing for being the 2nd best in the world with Suarez, Cavani, Falcao, Aguero and Zlatan. One would expect them to surpass the Sturridge and Suarez partnership by quite a distance if we compare invidual quality but the fact is that the Sturridge/Suarez partnership has carried their team and made them near unplayable at times for the opponents defenders.

Yorke and Cole proved one thing, that you need exceptional link up play and understanding of each other to make up for the fact that you both play centrally most of the game. So you with brilliant passing, runs and deception can dominate those areas anyhow. Yorke and Cole has nothing in terms of skill on Rooney/RVP, yet the former is the better pairing, which makes it senseless to play a strike partnership of RVP/Rooney until it is fixed.

As a lone striker Rooney/RVP are still absolute world-class.

Rooney and RVP should have been so good that they alone would torment any defense in the world and create a bunch of chances for us, but they haven't reached that level at all. Rarely do you see RVP and Rooney linking up with a 1-2 that beats the entire opponents defense for a goal, or making brilliant tactical runs for each other to open up space for the other person, or finding space out wide to receive a ball and pass it to the other centrally.

They simply don't work, they appear as if they do not want to work as the first matches when they were smiling and laughing when playing together they did alright. Maybe they realized that they are so similar that they have a hard time flourishing together without one of the players having to do a job he is uncomfortable with.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Rooney and RVP are both world class strikers, after Messi they were up there competing for being the 2nd best in the world with Suarez, Cavani, Falcao, Aguero and Zlatan. One would expect them to surpass the Sturridge and Suarez partnership by quite a distance if we compare invidual quality but the fact is that the Sturridge/Suarez partnership has carried their team and made them near unplayable at times for the opponents defenders.

Yorke and Cole proved one thing, that you need exceptional link up play and understanding of each other to make up for the fact that you both play centrally most of the game. So you with brilliant passing, runs and deception can dominate those areas anyhow. Yorke and Cole has nothing in terms of skill on Rooney/RVP, yet the former is the better pairing, which makes it senseless to play a strike partnership of RVP/Rooney until it is fixed.

As a lone striker Rooney/RVP are still absolute world-class.

Rooney and RVP should have been so good that they alone would torment any defense in the world and create a bunch of chances for us, but they haven't reached that level at all. Rarely do you see RVP and Rooney linking up with a 1-2 that beats the entire opponents defense for a goal, or making brilliant tactical runs for each other to open up space for the other person, or finding space out wide to receive a ball and pass it to the other centrally.

They simply don't work, they appear as if they do not want to work as the first matches when they were smiling and laughing when playing together they did alright. Maybe they realized that they are so similar that they have a hard time flourishing together without one of the players having to do a job he is uncomfortable with.
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I think it can work if we get the right tactics for them. Its clear from body language they do like each other, so I see no reason why LvG might try and make it work. They need service from everyone else, just as much as serving each other. If Fergie could get them playing well together, why not LvG. Last season should have seen a further progression of their partnership, but it did not happen. Hopefully this season we see them gelling more, I can't see us dropping one for the other TOO much.
 
The Mitcher said:
I think it can work if we get the right tactics for them. Its clear from body language they do like each other, so I see no reason why LvG might try and make it work. They need service from everyone else, just as much as serving each other. If Fergie could get them playing well together, why not LvG. Last season should have seen a further progression of their partnership, but it did not happen. Hopefully this season we see them gelling more, I can't see us dropping one for the other TOO much.
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SAF didn't succeed with it, he ended up making Rooney second string by changing his position around and then benching him in the biggest game of the season. It isn't impossible that LVG does what SAF couldn't, surely he will try it before he neglects it.
 
Annahnomoss said:
SAF didn't succeed with it, he ended up making Rooney second string by changing his position around and then benching him in the biggest game of the season. It isn't impossible that LVG does what SAF couldn't, surely he will try it before he neglects it.
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Jesus. You need to watch some of the games of that season. Rooney and RVP linked quite well in several games that season and it was only this season that it all turned crap. Why do you insist on making stuff up?
 
The Mitcher said:
I think it can work if we get the right tactics for them. Its clear from body language they do like each other, so I see no reason why LvG might try and make it work. They need service from everyone else, just as much as serving each other. If Fergie could get them playing well together, why not LvG. Last season should have seen a further progression of their partnership, but it did not happen. Hopefully this season we see them gelling more, I can't see us dropping one for the other TOO much.
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Some players work well together, some don't.

Rooney and RVP don't, and it's not a case of 'figuring out how to make them work' either, unless that involves dumping one of them on the bench.

(For the record Fergie didn't get them playing well together, certainly not regularly, so let's not blame Moyes for this one)
 
Becknaldolencia said:
What happened all of a sudden?
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The most silliest of reasons youd think im a fool, ok feck it everyone thinks im a fool anyway.....I saw those pics of him on holiday after the cup and I am sorry he is in awful shape, he is one of the highest paid players on the planet who has been under-performing for years. the real biscuit is I am in better shape than him and im not exactly the most ripped guy. But from an international superstar playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world paid that much should have a bit more about him, even a little bit of muscle tone.
 
akash02 said:
Jesus. You need to watch some of the games of that season. Rooney and RVP linked quite well in several games that season and it was only this season that it all turned crap. Why do you insist on making stuff up?
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Having a different opinion is not the same as making things up. Rooney's goalscoring run in 2013 which was vital to our title challenge came when van Persie went on his goal drought, and for the vast majority of the rest of the season van Persie was in full flow while Rooney was far from his best. A few highlight moments like the Aston Villa volley can't hide that.

I still think they can be a great partnership but so far they've been nowhere near that.
 
akash02 said:
Jesus. You need to watch some of the games of that season. Rooney and RVP linked quite well in several games that season and it was only this season that it all turned crap. Why do you insist on making stuff up?
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Well that's not true.

Barely anything noteworthy as a partnership under Sir Alex. And some of the moments of magic weren't even to do with a partnership specifically (the Rooney long pass to Van Persie against Aston Villa, for example) - that was just a great pass from one good player to another. We've seen Alex Song do something similar more than once.

They 'linked up' at times that season, but no more than you'd expect a couple of good players to do when playing 30 odd games together as one of the better teams around. And the Fulham away game under Moyes is as good as anything we've seen between them.

Compare it (in both seasons) to Suarez and Sturridge or even Rooney and Welbeck the year before. And that's not even mentioning some of the better partnerships in Premier League history.

Moyes can't really take the blame for this one, unfortunately.
 
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SolidState said:
The most silliest of reasons youd think im a fool, ok feck it everyone thinks im a fool anyway.....I saw those pics of him on holiday after the cup and I am sorry he is in awful shape, he is one of the highest paid players on the planet who has been under-performing for years. the real biscuit is I am in better shape than him and im not exactly the most ripped guy. But from an international superstar playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world paid that much should have a bit more about him, even a little bit of muscle tone.
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What pictures?
 
Brwned said:
Having a different opinion is not the same as making things up. Rooney's goalscoring run in 2013 which was vital to our title challenge came when van Persie went on his goal drought, and for the vast majority of the rest of the season van Persie was in full flow while Rooney was far from his best. A few highlight moments like the Aston Villa volley can't hide that.

I still think they can be a great partnership but so far they've been nowhere near that.
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"Worst partnership ever"

Sorry, but that's rubbish. I saw enough in that first season to suggest they could be quite good together if it came to it. RVP up top and Rooney in a deeper role as the AM could work in my view.
 
I don't see any mention of worst partnership ever in either of the posts you quoted but yes, if someone said that it was a massive - and probably intentional - exaggeration.
 
Brwned said:
I don't see any mention of worst partnership ever in either of the posts you quoted but yes, if someone said that it was a massive - and probably intentional - exaggeration.
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Annahnomoss said:
Rooney and RVP as a partnership has been absolutely horrible though, we would be better of if one of them got sent off nearly every game they play together.

One of the worst partnerships I have seen in my life
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Rooney and RVP is not as bad as some people make out, however, it's not as good as it could be, which is a surprise, as Rooney normally links up with players very well. Hernandez, Saha, Welbeck, Kagawa, and most recently Juan Mata.

Hopefully, if Rooney starts behind RVP, Van Gaal can get the best out of them, because they'd be a nightmare to play against if he were to do so.
 
I personally don't see them clicking as a good partnership, I just think they both want to be the main man and both their games are suited to that. I think in a different era where more teams played 442 they'd probably be more than fine, especially with more traditional wingers but right now I don't think it works well enough. In RVPs first season it was more about his individual brilliance. I'm hesitant to draw much from last season as it will be interesting to see how the players do under Van Gaal but from what we did see there was little chemistry. Nothing like the instant connection of say sturridge and Suarez.

And really it's the same case, who has Rooney really struck a great striking partnership with? Saha and on and off Tevez is all I can think. It's not a slight on Rooney I just think it's hard to play two strikers and although Rooney may drop off he more or less approaches the game as a striker and so he achieves an individually good/great return most times but I'm not sure we'll get as much out of the team there as we would with one of them upfront and more of a link player like Mata playing just ahead of the midfield.

That's particularly if we're moving towards wingers who will mix it up and make runs from outside to inside which is something we haven't had consistently since Ronaldo really. I think we need that and I don't think Rooney off the striker will get you that as it's not what his strengths in that role are for me. If we go for wingers who are gonna hug the line and put in far more reliably consistent crosses than we've had then I think they could work well, though we'd run the risk of being one dimensional and tbh I don't think that's the approach Van Gaal will take. Although we've got the players for a 352 now...
 
No way we will sell either of RVP or Rooney this summer, one will be our main man again and the other got a contract from the heavens.

We have to accommodate them both in the starting 11. Mata should 100% start in the hole, he is much better than Rooney in that specific role and can match his goals and assists ratio as well. Rooney will probably moved into a inverted winger role, similar to the one David Villa played at Barcelona where he would often swap with Messi and move into the central role. We will also possibly sign another all rounded midfielder who can cover a lot of spaces left by our attacking players on the pitch.

--------------------De Gea------------------
--Rafael--------Miranda---Jones-------Shaw--
----------------Herrera---A Vidal-------------
----------------------Mata------------------
---Valencia--------Van Perise-----Rooney------

That's how I think we will line up next season, I really hope we get another good wide player or play Januzaj there instead. Rooney and Van Persie would have to swap places a lot of times but I think this lineup has a lot of potential.
 
There's hardly that much excess fat on him in those pictures. He'll obviously never have a rippling six pack without spending ridiculous time and effort (which isn't needed), because it's not his body type.

His face looks pretty slender (a good indicator), and he looks fine. He looked very trim for England just a week ago, and I doubt he's gained much, if anything, since then.
 
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SolidState said:
The most silliest of reasons youd think im a fool, ok feck it everyone thinks im a fool anyway.....I saw those pics of him on holiday after the cup and I am sorry he is in awful shape, he is one of the highest paid players on the planet who has been under-performing for years. the real biscuit is I am in better shape than him and im not exactly the most ripped guy. But from an international superstar playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world paid that much should have a bit more about him, even a little bit of muscle tone.
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Oh dear, you absolutely precious little fanny. :lol:
 
Annahnomoss said:
Rooney and RVP are both world class strikers, after Messi they were up there competing for being the 2nd best in the world with Suarez, Cavani, Falcao, Aguero and Zlatan. One would expect them to surpass the Sturridge and Suarez partnership by quite a distance if we compare invidual quality but the fact is that the Sturridge/Suarez partnership has carried their team and made them near unplayable at times for the opponents defenders.

Yorke and Cole proved one thing, that you need exceptional link up play and understanding of each other to make up for the fact that you both play centrally most of the game. So you with brilliant passing, runs and deception can dominate those areas anyhow. Yorke and Cole has nothing in terms of skill on Rooney/RVP, yet the former is the better pairing, which makes it senseless to play a strike partnership of RVP/Rooney until it is fixed.

As a lone striker Rooney/RVP are still absolute world-class.

Rooney and RVP should have been so good that they alone would torment any defense in the world and create a bunch of chances for us, but they haven't reached that level at all. Rarely do you see RVP and Rooney linking up with a 1-2 that beats the entire opponents defense for a goal, or making brilliant tactical runs for each other to open up space for the other person, or finding space out wide to receive a ball and pass it to the other centrally.

They simply don't work, they appear as if they do not want to work as the first matches when they were smiling and laughing when playing together they did alright. Maybe they realized that they are so similar that they have a hard time flourishing together without one of the players having to do a job he is uncomfortable with.
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Well, this clears things up. What you really mean to say is that you are disappointed in them. You had high expectations of a world class partnership scoring something like a 100 goals and assists a season, single handedly winning games for us and instead, they turned out only decent (despite an amazing goal return rate) in the first season and less than that in the second season. So now you're lashing out and calling them "worst partnership ever" and "we're better off with one of them sent off".

At least now I understand you and I know that your post is basically an emotional outburst with which you then proceeded to try and justify.

"Yorke and Cole has nothing in terms of skill on Rooney/RVP, yet the former is the better pairing, which makes it senseless to play a strike partnership of RVP/Rooney until it is fixed."
Really? Despite the fact that RvP was our top scorer and the fact that they have 67 goals and assists together and the fact that we won the league that season by a mile, it's senseless to play them together? Just because you think they weren't as good as Yorke and Cole? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep playing them together and in the meantime try find a way to make them play even better?

"They simply don't work"
Really? They simply don't work despite 67 goals and assists and 11 passes to each other per game in their first season together (more passes to each other than Suarez and Sturridge in their second season together)? Doesn't that sound a bit harsh?

"They appear as if they do not want to work"
Really? You actually know what they're thinking deep down inside?

I'll just leave it at that.

Walters_19_MuFc said:
Rooney and RVP is not as bad as some people make out, however, it's not as good as it could be, which is a surprise, as Rooney normally links up with players very well. Hernandez, Saha, Welbeck, Kagawa, and most recently Juan Mata.

Hopefully, if Rooney starts behind RVP, Van Gaal can get the best out of them, because they'd be a nightmare to play against if he were to do so.
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For once, some good sense in this thread.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Rooney and RVP is not as bad as some people make out, however, it's not as good as it could be, which is a surprise, as Rooney normally links up with players very well. Hernandez, Saha, Welbeck, Kagawa, and most recently Juan Mata.

Hopefully, if Rooney starts behind RVP, Van Gaal can get the best out of them, because they'd be a nightmare to play against if he were to do so.
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I was surprised myself, Walters. Rooney's done well with any strike partner for Man. Utd., but with van Persie, it seemed disjointed, even in the first season. Sir Alex did well enough to make sure that the team retained its structure and didn't seem disjointed, which is why the van Persie-Rooney partnership was below average IMO even though both produced good numbers that season (more down to their own world class abilities than the fact that they developed a good understanding).

I think there is potential that this partnership could become a good one, but I don't think this potential can ever be realised (my gut feeling).
 
mazhar13 said:
I was surprised myself, Walters. Rooney's done well with any strike partner for Man. Utd., but with van Persie, it seemed disjointed, even in the first season. Sir Alex did well enough to make sure that the team retained its structure and didn't seem disjointed, which is why the van Persie-Rooney partnership was below average IMO even though both produced good numbers that season (more down to their own world class abilities than the fact that they developed a good understanding).

I think there is potential that this partnership could become a good one, but I don't think this potential can ever be realised (my gut feeling).
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They are both alpha dogs. RVP was the No1 player for arsenal and captain, captain of the Netherlands and the No1 player for us in his 1st season.
Rooney is England's best player and the No1 player for us under Moyes.
Which one is willing to be the " Robin " to the other one's " Batman "?
The onus is probably on Rooney due to LVG's relationship with RVP. RVP seems ok with Robben being the main man for the Netherlands I am not sure that Rooney has the same maturity.
 
I can only see it being one or the other. Van Gaal prioritizes squad balance if they don't work he won't force it.
 
tombombadil said:
Well, this clears things up. What you really mean to say is that you are disappointed in them. You had high expectations of a world class partnership scoring something like a 100 goals and assists a season, single handedly winning games for us and instead, they turned out only decent (despite an amazing goal return rate) in the first season and less than that in the second season. So now you're lashing out and calling them "worst partnership ever" and "we're better off with one of them sent off".

At least now I understand you and I know that your post is basically an emotional outburst with which you then proceeded to try and justify.

"Yorke and Cole has nothing in terms of skill on Rooney/RVP, yet the former is the better pairing, which makes it senseless to play a strike partnership of RVP/Rooney until it is fixed."
Really? Despite the fact that RvP was our top scorer and the fact that they have 67 goals and assists together and the fact that we won the league that season by a mile, it's senseless to play them together? Just because you think they weren't as good as Yorke and Cole? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep playing them together and in the meantime try find a way to make them play even better?

"They simply don't work"
Really? They simply don't work despite 67 goals and assists and 11 passes to each other per game in their first season together (more passes to each other than Suarez and Sturridge in their second season together)? Doesn't that sound a bit harsh?

"They appear as if they do not want to work"
Really? You actually know what they're thinking deep down inside?

I'll just leave it at that.


For once, some good sense in this thread.
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You can make them out as having succeeded and being good together as much as you wish mate. I will take SAF's corner in this debate and happily disagree though as it is apparent to nearly everybody that they haven't clicked well at all and their individual abilities should allow them to perform much better than they have.
 
markhrad said:
They are both alpha dogs. RVP was the No1 player for arsenal and captain, captain of the Netherlands and the No1 player for us in his 1st season.
Rooney is England's best player and the No1 player for us under Moyes.
Which one is willing to be the " Robin " to the other one's " Batman "?
The onus is probably on Rooney due to LVG's relationship with RVP. RVP seems ok with Robben being the main man for the Netherlands I am not sure that Rooney has the same maturity.
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:lol: :lol: Robben is more 'mature' than Rooney now? In what way? by continuing to dive? Some of the hyerboles in this thread are beyond ridiculous.
 
The Man Himself said:
:lol: :lol: Robben is more 'mature' than Rooney now? In what way? by continuing to dive? Some of the hyerboles in this thread are beyond ridiculous.
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I think you understood it the wrong way.. think he meant Rooney is not as mature as Rvp and not Robben..
 
kotha said:
I think you understood it the wrong way.. think he meant Rooney is not as mature as Rvp and not Robben..
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ummm yeah, I guess he meant what you are saying but still I don't get comparison. I mean, RvP will be probably made captain here like he is at Holland so I guessed it was about him being 'ok' with some other big name in team who can be equally central to team.

Anyway, to me RvP and Rooney have always looked to get along well whether in training pics or in goal celebrations particularly when they both combine for it. Both acknowledge that other is as important to team to get back to top and achieve success. It is fans and media who think it is either/or which might not be case after all. Rooney has already said that he would love captaincy but will have no problems if RvP is made one. Otherwise too both always talk highly of each other.
 
Annahnomoss said:
You can make them out as having succeeded and being good together as much as you wish mate. I will take SAF's corner in this debate and happily disagree though as it is apparent to nearly everybody that they haven't clicked well at all and their individual abilities should allow them to perform much better than they have.
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You can pretend SAF is on your side or pretend the partnership "simply doesn't work" all you want. Reality doesn't care whether you believe it or not. :)

And don't put words in my mouth. That's enough make believe already from you already. As I said earlier. They weren't great, but they sure as hell weren't shit either.

I'd much rather wait and see if LvG will get the best out of them. Rather than throw hyperbole around that "they're the worst partnership I have ever seen in my entire life" or "we're better with one of them sent off" and then insisting that hyperbole is true and pretending to know what SAF/Rooney/RvP thinks.
 
markhrad said:
instead of laughing read what I said.
It refers to RVP being "mature" by accepting Robben as being the main man.
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I realized it later after somebody pointed it out. I guessed the other way because RvP is captain of Holland and will probably be captain of United too, so onus logically is on him to accept someone else as main man, if needed. That said, I also said that it is bit pointless because Rooney and RvP get along nicely and Rooney has already said that he doesn't have problem with RvP being made captain. So your point of possibility of Rooney being immature about it still doesn't hold valid.
 
There was a stat on SSN that Rooney was involved in 40% of our goals last season.
 
The Man Himself said:
I realized it later after somebody pointed it out. I guessed the other way because RvP is captain of Holland and will probably be captain of United too, so onus logically is on him to accept someone else as main man, if needed. That said, I also said that it is bit pointless because Rooney and RvP get along nicely and Rooney has already said that he doesn't have problem with RvP being made captain. So your point of possibility of Rooney being immature about it still doesn't hold valid.
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We shall see but you cant expect Rooney to say anything different from what is politically correct.
 
markhrad said:
We shall see but you cant expect Rooney to say anything different from what is politically correct.
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Poor man can't win. If he says something which doesn't spark controversy and which is not what Rooney haters want to hear, then it is being said just to sound politically correct, right?
 
The Man Himself said:
Poor man can't win. If he says something which doesn't spark controversy and which is not what Rooney haters want to hear, then it is being said just to sound politically correct, right?
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Not really but nearly all sports persons give the usual non-controversial interviews eg thanking teammates, doing it for the team etc.
That is not to say that he did not mean it just that we cant know from what he said during an interview or tweet.
 
markhrad said:
Not really but nearly all sports persons give the usual non-controversial interviews eg thanking teammates, doing it for the team etc.
That is not to say that he did not mean it just that we cant know from what he said during an interview or tweet.
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and how we know then? From guesswork of Rooney haters on internet?
 
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