Thanks for sharing, that was my impression as well.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Thanks for sharing, that was my impression as well.
First match is on 23rd July against LA Galaxy. Lot of our players, who had gone for world cup should have good rest
On the other hand, just 10 days of rest for LvG and RvP if Dutch make it to finals.
nice. i reckon the english players would need 4/5 weeks of rest, so should be back maybe mid of the tour perhaps?
as for LVG and rvp i hope they can make it into the final now. LVG doesn't need any rest while rvp can have a little breather after the finals finished.
Let's just stick to using our own judgement for this one instead of tabloids because if you've ever read a Daily Mail story on the newest cancer cause/cure you will know they are not primarily motivated by stating the facts.
To me he's clearly under it and leaning backward to try and get a decent angle but the ball is a fraction too high. Don't see how you can say he's over it. This gif shows it how Pogue tells it:
That really is a phenomenal leap. His head is almost at crossbar height. Amazing.
Mistimed slightly, if we're nitpicking. A sitter, if we're being biased twats.
Why English player particularly need 4-5 weeks rest? Didn't get it. Mata, De Gea, Kagawa, Chicharito, Valencia will all be going out at same stage(the last 2 most probably, can change though). I don't know how it will be. Probably those who go far in world cup, may get additional week off. Our US tour last fixture is on 2nd August against Real Madrid and then first league game vs Swansea on 16th. I guess club will try to arrange couple of more friendlies, probably closer to home in mean time.
Straight from Ronaldo books
He doesn't have height to pull it off regularly, successfully though. He is still a very good header of ball. I think it was season 2009-10 when he scored lots of headed goals.
Sorry mate I invited you to list independent comment countering their piece so we could pick through it sensibly but you didn't. I don't read the rag mentioned in fact I don't take any papers it was just the first report on the web I saw referring to the Rooney misses.Let's just stick to using our own judgement for this one instead of tabloids because if you've ever read a Daily Mail story on the newest cancer cause/cure you will know they are not primarily motivated by stating the facts.
To me he's clearly under it and leaning backward to try and get a decent angle but the ball is a fraction too high. Don't see how you can say he's over it. This gif shows it how Pogue tells it:
I really don't want to be disrespectful but this is just returning to you say black and I say white nonsense. I look at that clip and think anyone saying that's not a sitter even allowing for him slightly mistiming it by leaping a fraction early must be a Rooney family member. In fact watching it over and over how come the net ain't bulging - incredible.
Strangely enough match reports were not written with our debate in mind. I doubt any of them would explicitly say "it wasn't a sitter" because no one writes like that. I'm sure there are plenty that neglect to say it was a sitter though - the BBC who wrote an entire article about the chance Rooney missed against Italy did not mention that it was a sitter, merely that he had a chance from close up. Not to mention it seems a bit pointless looking for 2nd hand evidence when we have a video to go by.
As for the gif, you know he's the player wearing white right? There's nothing he can do there to make the ball go down.
Now you mention it, he does have legs tucked up in a very Ronaldo-esque technique. Love that style of jump to help you hang in the air. Really makes the difference when you get the hang of it.Straight from Ronaldo books
He doesn't have height to pull it off regularly, successfully though. He is still a very good header of ball. I think it was season 2009-10 when he scored lots of headed goals.
It's called a "glancing header" mate the ball is descending it doesn't need heading down. It really is that simple.
He's under it though so it goes up.
No mate if he softly glances the ball it continues on it's original trajectory only into the bottom corner hence the term. Completely different skill to "pushing" the ball as you're suggesting. Gotta have your eyes open though and be good in the air.
He's not pushing it, he's clearly trying to move his head away from the ball to do what you said and get a glancing header.
I know it's all there he's in position no one's shoving him the goal is gaping he just needs the technique right but he closes his eyes and fails.
I'm not sure what he can do differently once he's in the air. Can you explain the exact movement he should be doing with his head to clarify?
Mate it's all about deftness of touch if you watch heading training drills where say 4 lads in a line a couple of feet apart nod the ball to each other it's that sort of touch. The ball more or less does the work with hardly any neck or head movement if the body is pointing the right way and most importantly the eyes are open.
I'd back a Pro 99 times out of 100 to notch from Rooneys position if he kept his eyes on the prize. It's subtle because the ball slides off the head but for anyone who plays with a modicum of skill piss easy.
As I said Rooney just showed heading isn't his strongest suit by allowing himself to be distracted a more confident header of a ball quite literally wouldn't have batted an eye lid ignoring the defender eyes on the ball till it glanced off his skull nestling in the onion bag.
One incident shows heading isn't his strongest suit?
This is why life becomes unbearable during the world cup.
"THIS INCIDENT MEANT EVERYTHING!!"
What if RVP misses a tap-in in the next round, will it prove he's not a natural goal scorer?
This is why life becomes unbearable during the world cup.
"THIS INCIDENT MEANT EVERYTHING!!"
What if RVP misses a tap-in in the next round, will it prove he's not a natural goal scorer?
No mate he's proved that. Put it this way if you were Rooneys manager would you say lump it up for him to battle for it in the air or play it to feet?
I see what you are saying but you can't beat physics, if the ball hits the upper part of your head at that speed then it's going to go up before it goes down. You can see Rooney is trying to move his head back but he can't do anything to get a good angle.
Keep in mind as that he has just jumped as high as Caceres to get to it, who is 6ft tall compared to Rooney who is 5ft 9.
He could have scored it but in my opinion if he did it would have been a great goal simply for how high he would have had to leap to head it in.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
No probs mate nice talking it out with you
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27930185
It's very strange that Suárez managed to score his header despite lacking this "fundamental basic footballing knowledge". Maybe you should take up a coaching job at one of the top PL clubs? It seems they're just not teaching their players the fundamentals of the game.
Sorry mate I'm not biting. Getting into a pissing contest putting up photos of people heading with eyes open or closed is a tangent you can toddle off to on your own. But read back and check out the coaching link I provided which explains heading technique with pictures. It confirms the CORRECT technique ie eyes open just as the FA and every other major coaching organisation does.. hope you enjoy it.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27930185
It's very strange that Suárez managed to score his header despite lacking this "fundamental basic footballing knowledge". Maybe you should take up a coaching job at one of the top PL clubs? It seems they're just not teaching their players the fundamentals of the game.
I don't need to read a bloody coaching manual - particularly from the FA - to know that at the point of contact you will almost always close your eyes instinctively. Most people here have headed a ball thousands of times, I imagine. I can guarantee Suárez and Rooney have anyway. And I can guarantee you will find thousands of headed goals scored with players closing their eyes.
Let's just stick to using our own judgement for this one instead of tabloids because if you've ever read a Daily Mail story on the newest cancer cause/cure you will know they are not primarily motivated by stating the facts.
To me he's clearly under it and leaning backward to try and get a decent angle but the ball is a fraction too high. Don't see how you can say he's over it. This gif shows it how Pogue tells it:
Difficult ball to score as it comes slightly behind him and he has to lean back to head it well. Of course one could argue he should have compensated by not being slightly early but the opponent is disrupting him well so only an absolute world-class header of the ball would have scored here.
The crossbar is 2.44 metres, Rooney is 1.79 so he has to jump 65 cm to reach the crossbar. Ronaldo jumped 75 cm according to media(not sure how reliable it is but it doesn't matter), and I guess Rooney has around 25-30 cm left until he actually hits the crossbar with his head there. So his jump is not something impressive, most athletic people would be able to jump the 30-35 cm above the ground which he did as well.
I think it is more an optical illusion based on Rooney raising his feet in the air, making the distance between him and the ground look bigger. The defender did the same leap and it is the typical leap every defender does for every cross, nothing exceptional about it.
Sorry mate I'm not biting. Getting into a pissing contest putting up photos of people heading with eyes open or closed is a tangent you can toddle off to on your own. But read back and check out the coaching link I provided which explains heading technique with pictures. It confirms the CORRECT technique ie eyes open just as the FA and every other major coaching organisation does.. hope you enjoy it.
Of course you keep your eyes open when you go up to head a ball. Every cnut who's ever been coached knows that. Stop stating the bleeding obvious ffs.
Of course this won't stop your eyes from reflexively closing for a fraction of a second at the exact moment you make contact. A reflexive action is completely unconscious, by the way. Can't be prevented by conscious effort.
There's a reason people are finding it so easy to make you look stupid by posting loads of photos of players with their eyes closed at the moment of impact. The same reason you're completely unable to find any photographic evidence to the contrary.
Mind you, I suspect that may not be the only reason people are finding it easy to make you look stupid...
Unbelievable how this Redburn guy is continuing this argument for so long and by using more and more ridiculous points. Either he must be hating Rooney to the core (very much possible if he is Everton fan) or it is just elaborate WUM he has carried on. Either way it is awful.
Sorry mate I'm not biting. Getting into a pissing contest putting up photos of people heading with eyes open or closed is a tangent you can toddle off to on your own. But read back and check out the coaching link I provided which explains heading technique with pictures. It confirms the CORRECT technique ie eyes open just as the FA and every other major coaching organisation does.. hope you enjoy it.
You're still going on about this, well played. Do you think your eyes were open every time you connected with the ball in your glittering 15 year striking career?
Or just agreeing with the majority of journos, broadcasters, pundits and fans out there explaining to those with a contrary view how and why.
No wumming there mate just good solid debate. I've agreed to disagree when it's gone round in circles regarding the Rooney sitter but as you can see others want to continue and disagree with universally accepted coaching practice. You won't get any coach saying "close your eyes during headers lads"
You are probably right on that one, the distance between the top of his head and the bar looks like around the width of a ball which is 22cm. The defender has 3 inches on him though.
Nobody here is saying you purposely close eyes while heading! It is reflex action when contact happens of ball with head or forehead or whatever. You pick up any close up photo of header at very last moment when contact happens with ball and you will find eyes closed. Doesn't mean the players had a wild guess attempt at heading. They watch till final second and when actual contact happens eyes get closed by reflex. By that the time the action of timing the jump to meet the ball has already taken place. The trajectory at which Rooney met the ball meant that unless he was of Ronaldo height or more he couldn't have kept it down or otherwise it would ahve required some outstanding perfect execution with his height. A foot behind from where he made contact and ball with same trajectory after hitting his head would have gone into the net with same jump and execution.
The chance Rooney missed against Italy at 2-1 was easier to score than this header I will say.
Covered this mate the ball was descending. A deft glancing header requiring no power just cushioning it would have nestled that right in the bottom corner but you can't be shirking with your eyes closed (which is the replay I saw) otherwise it just bounces off your forehead going anywhere .... which is of course exactly what happened.
He should, but at the end of the day we've seen Van Persie (amongst many others) miss his share of sitters too.
It happens, just sometimes it happens at the worst possible time.
I actually have to agree with some of what James Redburn is saying here.
Rooney made too much contact, quite clearly. If he was well under it (and was aware of how under it he was) he should have ducked his head and delayed contact, which is something we've seen people do before (I'm pretty sure I've seen Cavani, Falcao and others stoop low while in the air a few times, and I could imagine Hernandez doing so in a similar position.)
He got too much on the header. He may have been in mid-air but it's still possible to duck your head in that position. Failing that he could have kept his head where it was and just cushioned the header better than he did as a tiny nick off his head would have resulted in a goal (one of those where the contact would have been barely visible without a replay).
He definitely could have done better despite the mistiming of the jump and the height of the ball, as after all the ball was on it's way down and pretty much on it's way in.
Maybe he was in a position where what I'm describing was physically impossible, but it doesn't look that way to me. Obviously nobody will ever know.
Still a harder header to score than the absolute 'sitter' it may have looked, but I don't think he couldn't have done any better.
Rooney made too much contact, quite clearly. If he was well under it (and was aware of how under it he was) he should have ducked his head and delayed contact, which is something we've seen people do before (I'm pretty sure I've seen Cavani, Falcao and others stoop low while in the air a few times, and I could imagine Hernandez doing so in a similar position.)
He got too much on the header. He may have been in mid-air but it's still possible to duck your head in that position. Failing that he could have kept his head where it was and just cushioned the header better than he did as a tiny nick off his head would have resulted in a goal (one of those where the contact would have been barely visible without a replay).
He definitely could have done better despite the mistiming of the jump and the height of the ball, as after all the ball was on it's way down and pretty much on it's way in.
Maybe he was in a position where what I'm describing was physically impossible, but it doesn't look that way to me. Obviously nobody will ever know.
Still a harder header to score than the absolute 'sitter' it may have looked, but I don't think he couldn't have done any better.
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Rooney for me is still a very good player but he's losing too much of what made us dream about him becoming the best player in the world. He used to have blistering pace and could just shrug off opponents with ease when he's running towards the box. I think it's a case were Rooney has peaked in his mid twenties rather than around the age of 29 like a normal player would. It's not necessarily linked to him being lazy, on the contrary he's a very hard worker but I think it's more to do with his build and body type which doesn't allow him to maintain that level of fitness required to keep on playing like he used to when he was younger.
During the season under Moyes he looked like his younger self and gained a bit of that pace he had lost in previous seasons and I would be very glad if he carries that into next season under van Gaal.
During the season under Moyes he looked like his younger self and gained a bit of that pace he had lost in previous seasons and I would be very glad if he carries that into next season under van Gaal.
think van Gaal will bring out the best in Rooney again.
the current team has depended on Rooney too much...he has carried more than his share. Others need to pull their weight and they will.
very much look forward to the next season.
the current team has depended on Rooney too much...he has carried more than his share. Others need to pull their weight and they will.
very much look forward to the next season.
He is a transfer muppet isnt he, always the first player to welcome the new guys on twitter. Or is this part of his 300k a week package? lol
Wow. A lot of people are going to hate me for this, but I just need to get this off my chest. This isn't particularly directed at anyone. Just a general summary of some of the things I've read in here.
This whole anti Rooney brouhaha reminds me of the stick Carrick got when it was the trend and popular to say Carrick is shit.
Carrick made a mistake with a bad pass and all of a sudden he can't pass.
Carrick doesn't look like he is busy hustling and bustling like Park or Rooney, so he is lazy.
Obviously all these arguments were baseless and without any facts. That's one of the problems with the internet and people making opinions based on emotions rather than facts.
People just kept repeating to themselves "Carrick is shit""Carrick is shit""Carrick is shit""Carrick is shit" and suddenly Carrick is somehow shit. And this gets worse over the internet because other people amplify the opinion by parroting it.
Yet, SAF thought otherwise and he was a mainstay in our midfield during some of the most successful periods of our history. I think that says everything you need to know about Carrick.
Now the same thing is happening to Rooney. I know his constant contract wrangling has made him unpopular. And deservedly so. But that doesn't mean he is suddenly a shit player.
A shit player doesn't become your top scorer and top creator of goals by a mile last season, after all.
That's not all. There are many other arguments that seem like they were pulled out of thin air. Like how Rooney is somehow suddenly slow. Now let's see if this is true.
http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/ian.ste...p-10-fastest-footballers-in-the-world-2013-14
Not according to FIFA.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...gue-Stamina-speed-stats-midweek-fixtures.html
Definitely wasn't slow during the game against Arsenal last season either. Rooney also covered quite a lot of distance in that game as well. So he definitely isn't lazy or declining in work rate. Nice to note Carrick covered the most miles in that game too.
http://footyroom.com/forum/silly-football/top-10-fastest-players-by-fifa-52419
And he has historically maintained that speed range. Nothing's changed, really. At least in terms of physical performance.
It's one thing to think Rooney doesn't fit into the team, but it's another kettle of fish to start making excuses to call him shit. I really hate it when people just start making things up without any facts to back them up and then you see a whole generation of muppets all parroting the same thing as if somehow constantly repeating it to themselves will somehow make it true. It doesn't.
And now Rooney hits the cross bar with a header. And suddenly he's criticized for missing a sitter. Notice the trend? "It was a sitter. He was over the ball and somehow headed the ball upwards" when in fact he was actually under the ball. When this is pointed out, then the goalposts shift and suddenly Rooney apparently should be able to slice the ball with his head in that split second while running and jumping to catch a ball in mid air. Perfectly. Without fail. Everytime. Because that's what world class players are supposed to do. I'm not sure what Neymar should think of himself right now. Not just that. According to the papers, Rooney's "mistake" was the reason England got knocked out btw. Nothing to do with Gerrard's ironically mis-sliced header. This over the top criticism will continue for quite some time. As long as people keep making opinions based on emotions and not facts.
I don't know if he is world class or not and I won't bother myself with such vague labels. And I do not pretend that he is the same class as Ronaldo even. But I do know that he has been and still is one of our best players. And I know that I won't be making imaginary sticks to beat him with, either.
This whole anti Rooney brouhaha reminds me of the stick Carrick got when it was the trend and popular to say Carrick is shit.
Carrick made a mistake with a bad pass and all of a sudden he can't pass.
Carrick doesn't look like he is busy hustling and bustling like Park or Rooney, so he is lazy.
Obviously all these arguments were baseless and without any facts. That's one of the problems with the internet and people making opinions based on emotions rather than facts.
People just kept repeating to themselves "Carrick is shit""Carrick is shit""Carrick is shit""Carrick is shit" and suddenly Carrick is somehow shit. And this gets worse over the internet because other people amplify the opinion by parroting it.
Yet, SAF thought otherwise and he was a mainstay in our midfield during some of the most successful periods of our history. I think that says everything you need to know about Carrick.
Now the same thing is happening to Rooney. I know his constant contract wrangling has made him unpopular. And deservedly so. But that doesn't mean he is suddenly a shit player.
A shit player doesn't become your top scorer and top creator of goals by a mile last season, after all.
That's not all. There are many other arguments that seem like they were pulled out of thin air. Like how Rooney is somehow suddenly slow. Now let's see if this is true.
http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/ian.ste...p-10-fastest-footballers-in-the-world-2013-14
Not according to FIFA.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...gue-Stamina-speed-stats-midweek-fixtures.html
Definitely wasn't slow during the game against Arsenal last season either. Rooney also covered quite a lot of distance in that game as well. So he definitely isn't lazy or declining in work rate. Nice to note Carrick covered the most miles in that game too.
http://footyroom.com/forum/silly-football/top-10-fastest-players-by-fifa-52419
And he has historically maintained that speed range. Nothing's changed, really. At least in terms of physical performance.
It's one thing to think Rooney doesn't fit into the team, but it's another kettle of fish to start making excuses to call him shit. I really hate it when people just start making things up without any facts to back them up and then you see a whole generation of muppets all parroting the same thing as if somehow constantly repeating it to themselves will somehow make it true. It doesn't.
And now Rooney hits the cross bar with a header. And suddenly he's criticized for missing a sitter. Notice the trend? "It was a sitter. He was over the ball and somehow headed the ball upwards" when in fact he was actually under the ball. When this is pointed out, then the goalposts shift and suddenly Rooney apparently should be able to slice the ball with his head in that split second while running and jumping to catch a ball in mid air. Perfectly. Without fail. Everytime. Because that's what world class players are supposed to do. I'm not sure what Neymar should think of himself right now. Not just that. According to the papers, Rooney's "mistake" was the reason England got knocked out btw. Nothing to do with Gerrard's ironically mis-sliced header. This over the top criticism will continue for quite some time. As long as people keep making opinions based on emotions and not facts.
I don't know if he is world class or not and I won't bother myself with such vague labels. And I do not pretend that he is the same class as Ronaldo even. But I do know that he has been and still is one of our best players. And I know that I won't be making imaginary sticks to beat him with, either.
Rooney tells us who we're allowed to buy
I've not seen anybody seriously suggest Rooney is shit. I think everybody who wants him out of the team think that way because Rooney is unfortunate that RVP is in the team and RVP is even better than Rooney as the striker. The only way for Rooney to deserve a spot in the first eleven would have been if he worked his ass off to create a marvelous partnership with RVP to force the managers to use two strikers.
Rooney and RVP as a partnership has been absolutely horrible though, we would be better of if one of them got sent off nearly every game they play together. Rooney has been getting in to RVP's zones instead of pushing out far wide or helping down further down the pitch to at least let our midfield dominate the game while RVP acts as the forward.
One of the worst partnerships I have seen in my life, I seriously can't think of a striker partnership which performed so much below their individual quality. If Rooney is a 1 and RVP is a 1, we'd expect them to become a 2 together, but they become a 0.8 or something together, even worse than if they were playing on their own.
Rooney and RVP as a partnership has been absolutely horrible though, we would be better of if one of them got sent off nearly every game they play together. Rooney has been getting in to RVP's zones instead of pushing out far wide or helping down further down the pitch to at least let our midfield dominate the game while RVP acts as the forward.
One of the worst partnerships I have seen in my life, I seriously can't think of a striker partnership which performed so much below their individual quality. If Rooney is a 1 and RVP is a 1, we'd expect them to become a 2 together, but they become a 0.8 or something together, even worse than if they were playing on their own.
Hahahaha class post mate, you've got it right 100% . It is such a pity.
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