Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Eriksen said:
Passing, better set piece taker, better work rate, more flexible as can play different positions. Also despite Van Persie being taller, Rooney is actually superior in the air to him as well.
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Rooney has a better long pass. Van Persie's better at taking free-kicks and corners. Van Persie's work rate was excellent in 2012-13, but Rooney is definitely more consistently a hard-worker. He's not superior to Van Persie in the air. No-one on Earth is questioning Van Persie's ability in the air since that goal against Spain except you.

You think Van Persie is a level or two above Rooney? The same Rooney who will likely end his time as your all time top scorer, the same Rooney who last season totally outperformed Van Persie? Who was maybe one or two goals shy of Van Persie's best ever tally when he was at Arsenal.
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So you're not even a United fan and you're telling me who the better striker at my own club is? You've watched United in every game have you? :rolleyes:

As for your stats, you've got them completely arse backwards. Rooney scored 19 in 40, Van Persie scored 18 in 28.

Van Persie's best ever total at Arsenal was 37 goals. So he was 18 goals shy of that, not 1 or 2. :wenger:

It's just ridiculous, the bias against Rooney. Van Persie is a level or two above Hernandez, not Rooney. What have you seen from Van Persie that makes him this much better? Plenty United fans last season wanted him out. Rooney's stats are just as good as Van Persie, generally with more assists added in and that's with him adding more with his excellent work rate as well.
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What makes him a better striker? His ball control and first touch is far superior, Rooney's lets him down in both the #9 and the #10 roles he plays. I think he's a tidier finisher when 1 on 1 against the keeper, and he evidently just has much more in his locker when it comes to sticking the ball in the net. Better at striking the ball at goal from whatever distance and angle, can finish well with either foot, and has an uncanny ability to hit the ball with precision, first-time on the volley. All of these qualities and margins are absolutely central to the role of a striker. Yes, Rooney can drop deep and spray it out to Valencia better, and run around more often, but these skills are obviously less relevant.

It's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard because it has no founding whatsoever factually. To be a level or two above Rooney as a striker, he'd have to be producing numbers that totally outstrip Rooney. He doesn't. Ronaldo or Messi are a level or two above Rooney, they produce numbers to back this up, as well as performances.
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I don't agree with that criteria. Football's very hard to reduce to numbers. They're never as objective as they look, and they're obviously a very incomplete measure of a footballer. The judgement of spectators, though subjective, is much more complete. Here, your credibility falls drastically short, because you don't watch these two every week, so it's not a surprise you exaggerate the effectiveness of stats as a measure.

Anyway you're a Spurs fan aren't you? So you hate Van Persie to begin with?
 
Crono said:
Rooney has a better long pass. Van Persie's better at taking free-kicks and corners. Van Persie's work rate was excellent in 2012-13, but Rooney is definitely more consistently a hard-worker. He's not superior to Van Persie in the air. No-one on Earth is questioning Van Persie's ability in the air since that goal against Spain except you.



So you're not even a United fan and you're telling me who the better striker at my own club is? You've watched United in every game have you? :rolleyes:

As for your stats, you've got them completely arse backwards. Rooney scored 19 in 40, Van Persie scored 18 in 28.

Van Persie's best ever total at Arsenal was 37 goals. So he was 18 goals shy of that, not 1 or 2. :wenger:



What makes him a better striker? His ball control and first touch is far superior, Rooney's lets him down in both the #9 and the #10 roles he plays. I think he's a tidier finisher when 1 on 1 against the keeper, and he evidently just has much more in his locker when it comes to sticking the ball in the net. Better at striking the ball at goal from whatever distance and angle, can finish well with either foot, and has an uncanny ability to hit the ball with precision, first-time on the volley. All of these qualities and margins are absolutely central to the role of a striker. Yes, Rooney can drop deep and spray it out to Valencia better, and run around more often, but these skills are obviously less relevant.



I don't agree with that criteria. Football's very hard to reduce to numbers. They're never as objective as they look, and they're obviously a very incomplete measure of a footballer. The judgement of spectators, though subjective, is much more complete. Here, your credibility falls drastically short, because you don't watch these two every week, so it's not a surprise you exaggerate the effectiveness of stats as a measure.

Anyway you're a Spurs fan aren't you? So you hate Van Persie to begin with?
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I watch United plenty of times. Just because I'm not a United fan doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on United players, how ridiculous is that? So because you're a United fan you couldn't possibly comment on other teams players?

Erm, he scored one excellent headed goal. Unopposed, no defenders around him to outjump. I'd be prepared to bet Rooney scores more goals with his head - he's very good in the air. A bit like Falcao (although nowhere near as good) as in he's got a good jump on him. Van Persie isn't that strong in the air, its quite rare you'll see him rise above a defender to head it in.

What are you talking about? In the league Rooney scored more goals and got far more assists last season, simple as that. He doesn't just offer goals, he out assists VP completely. He's a complete forward.

I'm talking about the 2011/2012 season, Van Persie's best in the league. He got 30 league goals, Rooney 27. I'm not taking in to account other competitions because there are so many variables, the league is the best way to gauge how good a player is as every team plays the same amount of matches against the same opposition. The difference between the two is very slim.

Better striker of the ball? He's better with volleys. I wouldn't say at all he's better from range. Rooney from my knowledge scores more from outside the box. I totally disagree he's a better finisher, he constantly misses easy chances. Rooney also misses these chances but not as often; I'd certainly trust Rooney to finish over VP. No arguments Van Persie has the better touch and technique. You're underplaying Rooney's passing ability that often makes him one of the top assisters in the league as was the case last season. It's a massive part of his game, and he drops deep to assist your poor midfield.

Stats for a striker are very important. Their job is to score goals, simple as. Van Persie is a better goalscorer statistically - but he is ALWAYS played as the out and out striker, whereas Rooney is often playing deeper. Rooney also contributes more assists to even it up. They are two very even players, there's no massive difference between the two. Not sure what relevance me being a Spurs fan has, I don't hate Van Persie - he irritated Arsenal fans. I prefer him to Rooney. I just find it laughable to say he's vastly superior to him, because its blatantly not true.

I've watched both players a lot, not as much as you as a United fan but plenty to make a judgement and to be honest, there's no big gap. Wasn't impressed at all with RvP last season, whereas Rooney at least tried. Van Persie is more cultured and thus people are inclined more to the foreign, classy guy with the nice touch but there really isn't a big gap between the two.

Judgement of spectators is all well and good but when making a statement like that you have to have something to back it up, and the stats don't back up the idea that Van Persie is vastly superior, or "one or two levels above him". It's just stupid, he's blatantly not.
 
Eriksen said:
There are very few strikers I'd take over Rooney at Spurs, if he was at his best. I'd put him among the top forwards in world football.

Unlike Van Persie he's often played out of position, even in midfield. If it was a straight choice between the two, I'd take Rooney at WHL.
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Spurs fan in 'Doesn't like Van Persie much' Shocker.

Nah . . . but facetiousness aside, i'm also in the camp that says the gap in quality between Rooney and RvP isn't as big as some like to make out.

And this is a big season for Wayne in many ways. No lingering issues with Fergie to contend with, no Moyes making pretty much *everyone* look bad . . . he has to perform to such a level where it leaves people no choice but to recognize his enduring talent (even if some of them will still only do so begrudgingly).
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Rooney is definitely better with his bonce than RVP, though Robin's still decent with his head.

I don't know why you have to make your point so aggressively though.
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Really? Discounting van Persie's header against Spain, he's scored some incredible headers for us including notable goals against Arsenal, Spurs, Southampton and Wigan that instantly come to mind. In that period of time and off the top of my head, I can't think of any headed goals Rooney has scored for United.
 
Glanville95 said:
Really? Discounting van Persie's header against Spain, he's scored some incredible headers for us including notable goals against Arsenal, Spurs, Southampton and Wigan that instantly come to mind. In that period of time and off the top of my head, I can't think of any headed goals Rooney has scored for United.
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Rooney had one season when he scored 3 or 4 headers in almost consecutive weeks I don't recall any others.
Of course RVP is the better header of the ball.
 
markhrad said:
Rooney had one season when he scored 3 or 4 headers in almost consecutive weeks I don't recall any others.
Of course RVP is the better header of the ball.
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Didn't Rooney score over 10 headed goals in the 09/10 season?
 
NMF said:
Didn't Rooney score over 10 headed goals in the 09/10 season?
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Yep. If I remember correctly he scored 6-7 headers in a row (2 against Milan on San Siro, one against Villa in Carling Cup, a couple or so in the league and then an another against Milan on Old Trafford before he scored a goal with his foot against Milano to end his headed goals run). All those were something like within a month or so.
 
Eriksen said:
There isn't much between them at all.
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Oh, there is. Saying that RVP is two levels above Rooney isn't righ because only the likes of Messi and Ronaldo are there, but saying that RVP is a far better plater and a level above Rooney is perfectly correct. RVP is pretty much better than Rooney in everything bar long range passing, and when he isn't on top form he still performs much better than when Rooney isn't on top form. RVP is with the likes of Suarez, Ibra, Lewandovski and Falcao (before the injury). Rooney is on the level of Cavani, Diego Costa and so.

When he isn't on best form he is a total liability and it isn't a surprise that Sir Alex preferred RVP as his main striker. Heck even Moyes did that and played RVP as our main striker. And Hodgson played Sturridge on that position. If there wasn't much between them, I bet that things would have been different.

Saying that Rooney will become our top ever goalscorer is right, but today's Rooney isn't the same player that was 3-4 years ago, when he was one of the best in the world (probably with only Messi and Ronaldo being better than him). He isn't even a top 20 player now.
 

Eriksen said:
Better striker of the ball? He's better with volleys. I wouldn't say at all he's better from range. Rooney from my knowledge scores more from outside the box. I totally disagree he's a better finisher, he constantly misses easy chances. Rooney also misses these chances but not as often; I'd certainly trust Rooney to finish over VP. No arguments Van Persie has the better touch and technique.
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Absolutely agree about the finishing.

Van Persie's more likely to miss a sitter than Rooney (Arsenal versus United when Smalling slipped; Arsenal versus Milan at The Emirates when he dinked it; versus Madrid under Sir Alex; versus Arsenal last year; and there have been a few other times at United when he's tried to smash it into the net when he should have side-footed it resulting in him put it over, wide or hitting the frame of the goal)

Rooney's missed a few sitters, but I can't remember as many. The one for England with his left foot a couple of weeks ago is the only one off head. One on one with the keeper, there's little in it (and if one must shade it then I'd say Rooney)

Like you say, Van Persie's volleying technique is cleaner and sweeter (Rooney had a sweet volley on him too, which we saw more often back in the day - albeit not as clean and consistent as Van Persie's)

Van Persie scores beautiful and unique goals, but part of the reason is because he often laces shots that others would simply control or side-foot. And as a result he sometimes uses that technique unnecessarily - trying to be too cute.
It's as if Van Persie should be a better finisher (due to his superior technique) but he isn't when it comes down to it.

Headers - both have scored a number of them, and some very nice ones too. Not much in that either.
 
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OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Recent Rooney headers escape me. I remember him scoring loads during his two best goalscoring seasons, 09/10 and 11/12.
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This one wasn't too shabby:



Then there was the one at Sunderland in the last game of 2011/12, which almost won us the league.
 
FIFA:

Rooney: 81 heading
Van Persie: 69 heading


That settles it, in my view. No arguing with that.
 
ottosec said:
He didn't play in midfield vs Barca in 2011(I'm assuming you are talking about that game).

But you are right, actually he started a few games in midfield in Fergie's last year vs some lesser teams when we were rotating our forwards or when we tried diamond. He even put in a transfer request over it at the end of that season.
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That's what I'm talking about then.
 
Up to the 18th of Sept 2013. Rooney had scored 22 out of 200 goals for us with his head. Subsequently he has scored 16 more goals I think none of which was a header.
I took him 120 games or 45 goals before he first scored with his head for us.
Source ManUtd.com
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
If Rooney hadn't have pissed about over getting pay rises, he'd probably still be adored here. People seem too critical of him these days, probably because they just don't like him anymore.
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Your assumption is totally wrong. He could ask for 10 times pay rises, and people wouldn't really care. Think more about wanted to go out of United (and played for rivals, twice), being fat bastard as professional, and played shit when he wasn't on the mood.
 
MoneyMay said:
Loved watching that. That's the best way to treat Rooney, IMO.
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Agreed. Like I've said in the past, if he can get RvP and Rooney clicking and really playing well together, our attack will be frightening.
 
Looks like the Moyes time was good for Rooney. He looks a totally different person than he was 1 year ago. He came back in top shape, also he looks more mature in his interviews and generally in his public appearances.

He will have a great season if he keeps it up, I am sure of it.
 
A resurgent Rooney and fit RVP is good, infact that would be the best forward line in the league.
Januzaj can make another step up this season

A few signings and I'm actually quite optimistic about this season to be honest.

Especially if Rooney and RVP are on form, we could prove to be devastating.
 
NessunDorma said:
Obviously not going to get along:

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Rooney looked so chuffed afterwards. :lol:

Rooneys an LvG type of player, hard working, effective, big game player. He just needs motivating, that's always been Rooneys issue imo. He's looked like he needed a fresh challenge for a few years, if LvG can rediscover Rooneys hunger and drive then he'll be back. Having a year of Moyes might be a good thing for a lot of our players as it'll remind them just how lucky they were to have been managed by Sir Alex and how lucky they are to now being managed by LvG.
 
It will be interesting to see if Van Gaal uses Rooney or RvP as no. 9 depending on opposition or he decides a fix first XI and fixed role for everyone for all games provided all are fit. I would like us to maintain a steady back 4, even a steady midfield 2 but be more dynamic for front 4, both in-game as well as deciding whom to play.
It has its pros and cons. Oppositions will be kept guessing prior to game on who will be front 4 and what role they will play but it is lot more easier to say in theory than execute. If RvP, Rooney, Mata, Welback, kagawa, Januzaj, Valencia (!) etc can develop a good chemistry no matter which 4 play, then it can be done but will take time. Particularly given Van Gaal's continual insistence on players adapting to his philosophy quickly first more than anything else.
 
RedSky said:
Rooney looked so chuffed afterwards. :lol:

Rooneys an LvG type of player, hard working, effective, big game player. He just needs motivating, that's always been Rooneys issue imo. He's looked like he needed a fresh challenge for a few years, if LvG can rediscover Rooneys hunger and drive then he'll be back. Having a year of Moyes might be a good thing for a lot of our players as it'll remind them just how lucky they were to have been managed by Sir Alex and how lucky they are to now being managed by LvG.
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Be careful while praising Rooney too much. :nono:
Apparently according to some intellectuals here he is not a team player and how can a player who is not team player be LvG type player?
 
Rooney's problem is his first touch, close control and predictability. He'll have to work harder than ever on the technical side of his game this season because it's here he falls down when we compare him to the likes of Mata and Van Persie. He can't be allowed to play through the stinkers he has, he simply has to tighten up and get used to playing in a different way that doesn't entail pumping balls out wide to the right winger for 90 minutes. Whether that player exists any longer is another question, but I don't see room for him at #9 or #10, so he'll have to adapt.
 
RedSky said:
Rooney looked so chuffed afterwards. :lol:

Rooneys an LvG type of player, hard working, effective, big game player. He just needs motivating, that's always been Rooneys issue imo. He's looked like he needed a fresh challenge for a few years, if LvG can rediscover Rooneys hunger and drive then he'll be back. Having a year of Moyes might be a good thing for a lot of our players as it'll remind them just how lucky they were to have been managed by Sir Alex and how lucky they are to now being managed by LvG.
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:lol:
 
The Man Himself said:
Be careful while praising Rooney too much. :nono:
Apparently according to some intellectuals here he is not a team player.
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I've criticised Rooney for a few years. He hasn't looked motivated for a while and a shadow of his best form. Having said all that, he's still an effective finisher and if he can rediscover his hunger and drive then we've got our old Ronoey back. To say he isn't a team player is mental, but what do you expect from caftards mate :p
 
Kag said:
Rooney's problem is his first touch, close control and predictability. He'll have to work harder than ever on the technical side of his game this season because it's here he falls down when we compare him to the likes of Mata and Van Persie. He can't be allowed to play through the stinkers he has, he simply has to tighten up and get used to playing in a different way that doesn't entail pumping balls out wide to the right winger for 90 minutes. Whether that player exists any longer is another question, but I don't see room for him at #9 or #10, so he'll have to adapt.
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That's such an exaggerated simplification of the way that Rooney plays as a number 10. There's always been much much more to his game than that.
 
RedSky said:
I've criticised Rooney for a few years. He hasn't looked motivated for a while and a shadow of his best form. Having said all that, he's still an effective finisher and if he can rediscover his hunger and drive then we've got our old Ronoey back. To say he isn't a team player is mental, but what do you expect from caftards mate :p
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Yes, though I have always loved him, he does actually fall down to 'pub player' level when things are not going well and his first touch goes horrific. What I don't agree with is, that he stops caring when that happens. To me, opposite seems to happen. He tries too hard, tries to do to many things and many times it results him ending even more frustrated.
Hunger and drive are important factors in any job in the world and he is looking happy and wants to prove again so hopefully Van Gaal will have roles where he will be able to extract full potential of both him and RvP and that can be terrific for the club.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's such an exaggerated simplification of the way that Rooney plays as a number 10. There's always been much much more to his game than that.
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Well there's obviously a lot of other positives there, mainly his goalscoring, work rate and movement into the box, but his first touch is, more often than not, turning away towards one of the touchlines. You watch Mata and he simply has so much more flair and nous when in the centre of the park.

Wayne is a striker, and a bloody good one. But in all honesty, I do think he's going to have to adapt hugely this season, and the left forward role Hodgson attempted with him may be a possibility. I think he'd score plenty with his movement.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Agreed. Like I've said in the past, if he can get RvP and Rooney clicking and really playing well together, our attack will be frightening.
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You're right. Rooney has to feel loved to get the best out of him - 09/10 is evidence of that. He has a strong mentality, which puts him at the top for us, but if he doesn't feel like he's a top priority, then he's prone to languishing. Moyes was guilty of giving him too much comfort last season. However, for all his flaws under us, he motivated Rooney and the subsequent outcome of that is Rooney's shape and form ameliorating.

As for Rooney's first touch, it needs to be improved. He's shown before that he has a very good touch, but since 11/12 he's had an inconsistent touch.

 
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