3 very good strikers who all had a good game but only 1 real world class striker who made the difference.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
- Status
Great game by him, tried all he could to get england to the finish line, sadly the other chumps in the england shirt were working in the other direction. Shouldve scored atleast one more chance but unfortunately didn't. His all round game was really good though, every other part of his game was on. Great to see him turning defenders again.
Roy should've made a double sub by halftime. Gerrard, sturrige, sterling and welbeck were having mares out there. England leaving Terry and barry behind also didn't help. Both had outstanding seasons and deserved to be there starting games instead of jags and gerrard. How england thinks hendo is the future of the national team midfield is beyond me. Gerrard had a poor game, but hendo is just an average player. Atleast with stevie g you can hope that he'll turn it on, what are you hoping for with hendo?
Its a shame how little game time wilshere and barkley got at the world cup. This really should've been their tournament, not watching gerrard and hendo stink it up.
Roy should've made a double sub by halftime. Gerrard, sturrige, sterling and welbeck were having mares out there. England leaving Terry and barry behind also didn't help. Both had outstanding seasons and deserved to be there starting games instead of jags and gerrard. How england thinks hendo is the future of the national team midfield is beyond me. Gerrard had a poor game, but hendo is just an average player. Atleast with stevie g you can hope that he'll turn it on, what are you hoping for with hendo?
Its a shame how little game time wilshere and barkley got at the world cup. This really should've been their tournament, not watching gerrard and hendo stink it up.
I thought Henderson and Rooney were the only two players to emerge with any credit from the game. Arguably Baines too. The rest of them were dire. Every one of them.
There's just this bizarre logic around Rooney.
If people want to argue that England's most dangerous attacking player* ultimately isn't dangerous enough, that's one thing.
But what so many people seem to be arguing is that England's most dangerous attacking player ultimately isn't dangerous enough . . . so let's replace him with an even less dangerous player, and then England will be much better.
Too many seem to genuinely believe that if only we'd played Lallana, or Ox, or Sterling centrally, that we'd have beaten Uruguay and all would be well.
Those all might be good players, and potentially great players in some cases. But they've done nothing yet to suggest they'll go on to be any more dangerous than Rooney is (or was, if that's you're bag), and indeed they'll have done well to even reach his level.
I guess it's just the tendency, as a great man once put it, to think that the cow in the next field is always nicer than your own cow.
*As evidenced by the fact he scored, got an assist, made more key passes than any other England player, and created more goal scoring chances than any other England, over the course of the two games
If people want to argue that England's most dangerous attacking player* ultimately isn't dangerous enough, that's one thing.
But what so many people seem to be arguing is that England's most dangerous attacking player ultimately isn't dangerous enough . . . so let's replace him with an even less dangerous player, and then England will be much better.
Too many seem to genuinely believe that if only we'd played Lallana, or Ox, or Sterling centrally, that we'd have beaten Uruguay and all would be well.
Those all might be good players, and potentially great players in some cases. But they've done nothing yet to suggest they'll go on to be any more dangerous than Rooney is (or was, if that's you're bag), and indeed they'll have done well to even reach his level.
I guess it's just the tendency, as a great man once put it, to think that the cow in the next field is always nicer than your own cow.
*As evidenced by the fact he scored, got an assist, made more key passes than any other England player, and created more goal scoring chances than any other England, over the course of the two games
Last edited:
I didnt think much of Baines but I thought Henderson looked OK. I would have liked to see more of Barkley and Wilshere though. And Shaw.
And while i'm at it - and maybe this is me playing devil's advocate somehwat - there is much talk about Rooney's abysmal record at tournament level.
But it is just a fact that he went into the 2006 and 2010 tournaments off the back of major injury. Fergie is adamant he should never have gone in 2006 after the metatarsal break, and he'd badly sprained his ankle in 2010, meaning he couldn't train properly for weeks afterwards.
His record with no fitness issues hanging over him at major tournaments is:
Played: 8
Goals: 6
Assists: 1
And in one of those games, he went off injured after 20 minutes or so. It's not too shabby at all.
But it is just a fact that he went into the 2006 and 2010 tournaments off the back of major injury. Fergie is adamant he should never have gone in 2006 after the metatarsal break, and he'd badly sprained his ankle in 2010, meaning he couldn't train properly for weeks afterwards.
His record with no fitness issues hanging over him at major tournaments is:
Played: 8
Goals: 6
Assists: 1
And in one of those games, he went off injured after 20 minutes or so. It's not too shabby at all.
I feel a bit sorry for Rooney to be honest. He gave it his all and for once had an all around good game for England on the big stage, yet it'll hardly be even noted because of the loss. Stevie Me will get more praise for being a pile of shite.
Rooney has definitely had horrible luck with tournaments, that much cant be denied.
We all know he needs a run of games to get any sort of form going. International tournaments dont really suit him. Too big a gap between the intensity of competitive football and the start of the WC. Also he wasn't helped by missing a few games right at the end of the PL season.
I actually have high hopes that LVG can get him back to his best-a borderline world class player.
I actually have high hopes that LVG can get him back to his best-a borderline world class player.
In the entire Premier League, supposed best league in the world, there is only one world class English player in the division.
Let that sink in.
Let that sink in.
The last time Rooney was considered a borderline world class player was when he was playing as an out and out striker four odd years ago. He's not going to get consistent games there with RVP around and if we do bring in Cavani, it'll obviously be even harder.
He had an alright game last night, one of the few who looked like they actually cared when we went a goal down towards the end.
I don't know how bad the criticism was in the immediate aftermath as i got bored of Mark Saggers scream down the radio [you accept that phone-ins will try to drum up calls but it was all too forced], however it is hard to imagine that he could be ignored after yesterday's performance. From very early on Gerrard's decision making left a lot to be desired, not in the least providing the sort of composure one would expect of a senior player.
As the minutes passed Sturridge was increasingly taking the selfish route when in front of their goal, he should have been replaced by either Rooney or Lambert in my view. Most people expected the starting XI we saw and there wasn't mass perturbation, where Roy let himself down was failing to react appropriately. It would have been no disgrace to bring off the captain or the first choice strikers, one is in the Autumn of his career and the other somewhat inexperienced at the international level.
Suarez showed the difference between a world class forward and a very good one. Scored two great goals from 3 chances (the second goal was from a half chance though and the wasted chance wasn't a clear cut one by any means)) whereas Rooney had 5-6 chances vs Italy and Uruguay and managed to score a tap in. It was a typical Rooney performance from the last 2 seasons, i.e. a good performance but not good enough to make a real difference when it really matters.
Think that England played better against Italy who have a superior team to Uruguay. Last night Rooney performed better than against Italy but apparently at the expense of the performances of the other players. The fact that the other attacking players were dire (actually Sturridge did a great job for the goal and won the free kick from which Rooney could have scored) had arguably something to do with the fact that Rooney's link up play was dire, except for the half chance he created for Sturridge.
Think that England played better against Italy who have a superior team to Uruguay. Last night Rooney performed better than against Italy but apparently at the expense of the performances of the other players. The fact that the other attacking players were dire (actually Sturridge did a great job for the goal and won the free kick from which Rooney could have scored) had arguably something to do with the fact that Rooney's link up play was dire, except for the half chance he created for Sturridge.
Last edited:
You think Rooney was creative last night? OK.
Nonsense. Against Italy he had one chance. Against Uruguay he had, at best, three. That's if you include the free kick from outside the box, which is a whole new definition of a "missed chance"
Not even getting into your deranged idea that being put clean through on goal is a "half chance"...
Against Uruguay he had 4 chances. 1. the free kick (a very good chance for free kick specialists, Suarez would be happy to take a free kick from such a distance), 2. the header, 3. the wasted chance he had within the penalty box in the second half, and 4. the chance from which he scored. Including the chance vs Italy that makes 5 good chances. He managed to score a tap-in from the easiest one. He's great isn't he?
As regards Suarez' second goal, well, it was far from easy to controll the ball and score from there.
As regards Suarez' second goal, well, it was far from easy to controll the ball and score from there.
Last edited:
Rooney scored and had a decent game but I wasn't impressed. He spent the game dropping deep then squaring the ball to Johnson/Sterling before rushing into the box. Is that how a number 10 is supposed to play? There was virtually no linkup play between him and Sturridge. He never managed to put Uruguay's midfielders/defenders under pressure. No reverse balls, no through balls. I saw nothing between him and Welbeck who was on the left. He was one of England's best players but imo he did little to justify calls for him to be played through the middle. Playing him behind the striker got a better performance from him but not from the team which is more important.
Again not impressing RedCafe members. Poor show, Rooney.
Those 5 chances:
1. The shot Vs Italy which he dragged wide. Could have done better, but it was by no means an easy one.
2. The free kick Vs Uruguay. The taker is never favourite in these situations, and most don't go in. Rooney missed by inches.
3. The header. Such was the height of the ball that it was always difficult to get any real direction on it. Could have done better, but as a miss, it wasn't utterly outrageous.
4. The left footed shot Vs Uruguay. Should've scored, even if it was on his weaker foot. Produced a good save from the 'keeper, but okay, let's say it was a bad miss.
5. The actual goal. Harder to miss than score from that position, and he did score.
Of the 5 chances then, i'd say only two were clear cut, and he scored one of them. On another day he might have bagged 1 or 2 more, but he didn't. So there you go.
Was still England's most dangerous attacking player over the two games though. Made more key passes than any other England player, created more chances than any other England, and is the only player to have scored *and* assisted.
England's problem at this tournament was not Wayne Rooney.
RVP and Suarez all had fitness concerns going into the tournament but they've still managed to be decisive. Why does he constantly require long periods to get up to speed? Suarez had a potbelly yesterday but he was still useful.
I know that all kind of excuses could be made for the fact that Rooney failed to make a real difference in those games. The other attacking players don't pretend to be world class and to be paid as such. People expect more from Rooney, being the most dangerous player for England when your competition are the likes of Sturridge and Welbeck isn't a great deal. Fans and pundits expect from Rooney to perform as one of the best attacking players in the world. And he's failed to do it so far.
Rooney Vs Sturridge Vs Welbeck Vs Sterling over the 2 games.
Key passes per 90:
Chances created per 90:
Assists per 90:
Goals per 90:
Guess which one of these players is being held up as the main reason for England's failings?
Key passes per 90:
Chances created per 90:
Assists per 90:
Goals per 90:
Guess which one of these players is being held up as the main reason for England's failings?
Last edited:
I would have dropped him and replaced him with someone better on the wing, i thought Sterling deserved to be given a shot at the no.10 role again as he did it very well against Italy it has to be said.
Rooney keeps dropping deep and doesn't stay up front as much as he should tbh.
Rooney keeps dropping deep and doesn't stay up front as much as he should tbh.
Any criticism of Rooney leads to you being branded a Hater or chatting rubbish.
He can do no wrong for some and is afforded excuse after excuse after excuse. It is almost pointless to discuss any of his performances.
To give anyone else credit is considered "rawkish" and disloyal.
Normally I would not give a crap as his recent performances are for England and not Utd but this blind loyalty continues to make him marketable and thus profitable to the club.
I feel he has been kept and catered to for financial reasons when clearly we need a player who is great and world class to lead us. Rooney is neither.
I keep watching his games looking for signs that I am being too harsh on him and they are not there.
Anyone who looked at the Uruguay game and thought he was better than the hated Suarez is seriously blinded.
He can do no wrong for some and is afforded excuse after excuse after excuse. It is almost pointless to discuss any of his performances.
To give anyone else credit is considered "rawkish" and disloyal.
Normally I would not give a crap as his recent performances are for England and not Utd but this blind loyalty continues to make him marketable and thus profitable to the club.
I feel he has been kept and catered to for financial reasons when clearly we need a player who is great and world class to lead us. Rooney is neither.
I keep watching his games looking for signs that I am being too harsh on him and they are not there.
Anyone who looked at the Uruguay game and thought he was better than the hated Suarez is seriously blinded.
No, it's just that so much of the criticism is unfair, ill informed, and borne of a clear agenda against him.
(Although you personally are indeed a 'hater' anyway, as you have as good as admitted - and I can link to the post if I need to).
To be fair markhad, you do chat rubbish on any subject relating to Rooney. You are the polar opposite of JohnMUFC so you haven't got much room to complain.
What? He made a "real difference" in both of those games, by any definition.
Most of the reason we were so awful in the first half was because Rooney was playing far too forward and leaving a massive gap between the forward line and midfield so Uruguay could pick up the second balls with no pressure whatsoever. Also meant Rooney saw little to none of the ball too.
He did this for United this season which raised all the questions about him and RVP not being compatible and about his ability as a #10 when he clearly wants to be #9.
Did less of that in the second which meant both he and England were better and gladly reaped the rewards with a goal. Hopefully regardless of result or qualification for the next stage he has a good game against Costa Rica and scores again.
Yes, that's right, he made a real difference by missing good chances and thus allowing the opposition to win both games.
On a serious note, you make a real difference when you make vital contributions which win the game for your team. Rooney's misses kinda cancelled his contributions. He was at fault for the loss vs Italy and should have done a bit better with his chances vs Uruguay. I'll leave it at that.
exactly the response I expected. you don't agree with what I say thus I am the one chatting rubbish.
When I post a comment it is carefully thought out and not done as an emotional response.
I do not call fellow poster names or try to ridicule them because opinions should be respected.
Not brilliant last night, but he was decent enough.
If all your posts on Rooney are "carefully thought out posts" then perhaps you need to stop thinking. No one is name calling you, I am just saying your posts on Rooney are shite. As bad as the John who goes too far in the opposite direction. You complain about everyone making excuses for Rooney, only to blame him for everything under the sun in the next breath (or line). You pretty much admitted to hating Rooney so I'm not sure why I am even debating with you.
Resplendent performance from Wayne yesterday. I bet England fans who love to bring him down were so devastated when he scored. Anyone but Rooney.
A shame such a domineering display did not matter in the end due to Suárez's brilliant display of decisiveness and England's shambolic defending and insidiously inept midfield.
A shame such a domineering display did not matter in the end due to Suárez's brilliant display of decisiveness and England's shambolic defending and insidiously inept midfield.
Wow. An attacking player can only make a "real difference" in a game his team wins? That's a new one to me.
It's Rooney's fault England conceded four goals in the two games where he either created or scored a goal in each game? Mental.
Never ever said I hated him. I once used the word dislike but taken in context it referred to all the hype surrounding him.
I after the most recent game said that he had a good game and I have repeatedly said he is a good player occasionally very good but not great.
I believe this is the reason that people sometimes go the other way and overly criticise Rooney. You'll have people saying "he has scored 30+ goals every season he has played consistently as a number 9", therefore "he is a World Class number 9" or as you have skewing his abysmal record in major tournaments for his Country to actually look incredibly impressive.
I'm sure if you asked Wayne Rooney he'd say there have been no excuses for his poor Euro/World Cup form over the years and he is working hard to improve that. I'm certain he wouldn't reply "well I actually score more than a goal/assist a game when I'm 110% injury free, have had a run of good form in the lead up and am played in a specific position of my choosing, oh and it has to be on a Sunday at 4pm".
The fact is Rooney is a very good player, nothing more, nothing less. If you are expecting performances at the consistency of player's like RVP, Hazard, Suarez, Ibrahimovic, Robben, Bale, Toure, Ribery, Aguero etc you are going to be disappointed. No one expects the likes of Muller, Benzema, Cavani, Lewandowski etc to single handedly carry a team, they merely expect them to put in good performances. Rooney is held to a higher standard than other "third tier" player's because people think he's in the "second tier" because of his name and salary.
It's like expecting Aguero to be Messi: even though the former is a great player, you'd always be disappointed.
So England lose because of Gerrard being absolute shite and there is article which still finds to talk mostly about Rooney? Shocker.
Posters like him are only worth ignoring because of the bollocks they talk. Better to smash head against wall than arguing with them. Add to that this guy writes in bullet-points style. Absolutely awful to read in every manner.
- Status