I kinda agree with this, he does surprise us time to time playing in #10 role.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Our issues certainly don't begin and end with Rooney. Our insistance on the old 4-4-2 with old style, mediocre wingers was a huge issue as well. Play that style, and you can add Bayern's first 11 and still look like crap. But I do believe he's part of it. I feel it's like he's programmed to play the old style.
The tortuous knots of logic you keep tying yourself in is amusing. RVP's wasted chances didn't cost us the game or the tie. Rooney's poor performance cost England a great deal - I am sure it's the first time England have lost the opening game in the World Cup for aeons.
So why did nobody else recorded 10+ assists and goals in a five PL seasons? Surely in more than 20 PL seasons many players would, if it is not exceptional. Also a ridiculous notion than anyone could score as many goals as Rooney. Where are these "anybodys" exactly? It's not like the team was built around Rooney much and when it was "some of the most talented footballers in the world" that were around him included Nani, Young, Valencia.
because Rooney is the longest serving striker in recent times at Old Trafford. This is his 10th season in an era that coincides with United's most successful stint under the greatest football manager. I am not awed by Rooney's stats at all. Any of Ruud, RVP or even Tevez would have scored more with 10 full seasons under their belt. You cannot look at statistics in isolation without the underlying factors.
Wayne Rooney is a national embarrassment. What exactly is he good at? Mata and Kagawa are better in the hole, RVP and Chicharito are better in the centre forward positions. If Rooney was from Ukraine, not the English golden boy, he would have been sold to Benfica in 2010. Goals/games ratio would tell you Rooney is a mediocre player hyped by the British media machine.
But does it not speak volumes for Rooney's talent that, during our 'most successful stint', 'the greatest football manager' thought Rooney should be one of the first names on the team sheet? And didn't Rooney play a huge part in making that 'our most successful' stint'?
You can't say Rooney only scored a lot of goals because he played in a successful team, while totally ignoring the fact that it was those goals which helped make it successful.
RVP's miss cost us win. Would you argue with that?
He did not play as a striker in most of these 10 seasons. If a person follows United he ought to know really. And a simple fact that he was here, winning things for such a long time proves that he is exceptionally talented.
That's just seem like the sort of stuff that overzealous kagawa's fans would write. Rooney well maybe not as good as Mata and RVP now or in certain roles in certain formations, but to even imply he is worse than Chicharito or Kagawa is bonkers.
So how come he was vital part of the great 2008 team?
I think it's exactly the other way around. Rooney was forced to compromise his play in order for United to deal their critical midfield deficit. Had Rooney played in Chelsea with Hazard, Oscar, William behind him he would be great, same thing goes for Real actually. I think he would fitted as their CF nicely, given that he can work the channels and bring Ronaldo and Bale into play. He was doing that in United.
but instead he is stuck with Valencia, Nani, Young as a partners and a very compromised CM area. So bad in fact that even Rooney being a CF/attacker was head and shoulders above all our CMs bar Carrick, lets say all our attacking, creative CMs and forced to play there in some games.
It wasn't his goals - he contributed little in that successful era. I cannot even think of any season Rooney's haul of goals got us over the finish line.
2006/7 to 2008/9 was all about Ronaldo.
2009/10 - Rooney failed to deliver the title as the main man
2010/11 - Berbatov, Nani, Hernandez delivered the title
2011/12 - Rooney failed again as the main man
2012/13 - RVP delivered the title
2013/14 - Rooney failed once again as the main man installed by Moyes
so when has Rooney's goals helped us to be successful? If you take out his various penalty kicks from his total haul, Rooney scores about 12 league goals per season. That's the statistic you would expect from Kewyne Jones or Jonathan Walters.
Missing the point of the previous post.
Rooney has stepped up at big moments for us. He is a top striker and has scored not only a lot of goals for us but many important ones.
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You can spot the ones who basically do just have an irrational anti-Rooney agenda a mile off, because they go to ridiculous lengths to try and avoid giving him a shred of credit. I.E. Rooney's goals had nothing to do with our success, and he's about on the level of Kenwyne Jones and Jonathan Walters.
Amazing that Fergie picked him week after week, month after month, year after year, given his lack of contribution.
RVP's miss didn't cost us the win. Before the second leg kicked off, United were winning the tie on away goal rule. So how did RVP's miss cost us?
He played as a striker in those 10 seasons. United were a 4-4-2 team. Ronaldo didn't play as a striker when he scored 42 goals in one season. Why do we make these boring excuses for Rooney every time? Tell me one major title Rooney has single-handedly won? He was anonymous in Moscow - Nani and Anderson had more to do with our European victory in 2008 than Rooney. If you look beyond your nose you would realise Rooney is nothing but an overrated featherweight!
Hilarious!
If Rooney is less talented than Mata in the hole and RVP as a centre forward then why is he in the first team? Why is he draining the coffers with his outrageous wages? Let's even admit Moyes is a shyte manager and SAF had a score to settle.......why was Sterling and Sturridge preferred to Rooney by Hodgson? Another coincidence?
His nationality and his status as the white Pele afforded him that luxury. By the time he lost SAF few major games, he was summarily dropped against Madrid in the second leg at OT. SAF would never have dropped Ronaldo in a game of that magnitude. That alone should tell you SAF had had enough of him and it was the reason he got RVP and Kagawa.
In SAF's memoir - he said Rooney is a slow learner. Scholes also said Rooney may have seen better days. What else do you need to learn about this overrated piece of lard? 2 of the greatest icons in the game who know Rooney far better than you and I have given their verdict. Accept he's mediocre and let's move on......
So, so stupid and bitter that. Rooney contributed to more PL and CL goals that year than any of them in goals and assists. And Barbatov could only score against small teams (including Liverpool
) and was even dropped by Fergie for top CL matches.I agree with most of your points, however, calling Rooney a national embarrassment and a mediocre player is a little over the top and detracts from your otherwise accurate analysis.
Again, it must be awful to have so much hatred and bile for a player that you have to resort to such shitty, implausible arguments as this one. And deep down, I don't think even you truly believe that the only reason Fergie picked Rooney to start pretty much every game (fitness allowing) for ten years is because of his nationality.
You're not just insulting Rooney by saying that, you're insulting Fergie as well, and pretty much everyone elses intelligence.
I do think that Rooney's stay with us, especially after his first sign of rebellion, was predicated on his marketability rather than ability.
Fergie generally does not suffer fools gladly.
As much as I liked Becks as a player and human being one cannot discount the fact that his moves to Milan, PSG and LA were dictated primarily by said marketability
Fergie generally does not suffer fools gladly.
As much as I liked Becks as a player and human being one cannot discount the fact that his moves to Milan, PSG and LA were dictated primarily by said marketability
SIAP
So, so stupid and bitter that. Rooney contributed to more PL and CL goals that year than any of them in goals and assists. And Barbatov could only score against small teams (including Liverpool
10/11 PL season
11 goals + 11 assists - Rooney
9 goals + 19 assists - Nani
20 goals + 4 assists - Berbatov
Lane, you are a pathological liar. You have lost all credibility to even stay in this argument when you attempted to distort the facts. Rooney had more minutes in the pitch than Berbatov and he contributed less than him per minute.
So Berbatov could only score against small teams? These are the reasons arguing with amateurs can be tedious. Any ardent watcher of the PL over the years would know some smaller teams can be more difficult to beat than some big teams - it depends on the circumstance. Berbatov helping us to beat Blackpool with a brace away from home was a more difficult game that season than some of the teams in the top 8.
So, so stupid and bitter that. Rooney contributed to more PL and CL goals that year than any of them in goals and assists. And Barbatov could only score against small teams (including Liverpool
Such and inept, idiotic statement that.
Berbatov had 25 goals and assists in PL and CL combined that season while Rooney had 28. As for minutes given that you did speak about PL only, you clearly lied, cause Rooney played 2,224 minutes in PL while Berbatov played 2,208. Not much of a difference.
Overall in CL+PL Berbatov had 2,725 minutes compared to Rooney's 3,026. So Rooney still comes on top with a 108 minutes per goal and assist compared 109 by Berbatov. Again you was not accurate. Berbatov also had this goals against much lesser teams, it's obviously harder to get a goal or assist in CL than against Birmingham or Blackburn.
As for Nani he had 9+14 in PL and 1+0 in CL (whoscored data that based on Opta's) which gives you 24 goals and assists, still less than Rooney had.
Berbatov scored against:
Newcastle, West Ham, Liverpool, Everton, Blackburn (5 goals!), Sunderland, Birmingham(3+1 goals), Blackpool, Bolton, Fulham.
So yeah i think it's fair to say that his tally was inflated a bit. He also failed to score in 517 minutes of CL football as well.
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Why Hodgson played Rooney on the wing and Sterling down the middle, I just don't know. Rooney is effective as a no.10/second striker when he uses his great passing range to get it out wide and try and get on the end of a cross. Getting it into wide areas hurt Italy yesterday, but for some reason Hogdson continued to play Rooney on the wing, when we had a great player in Sterling who could commit players and whip some crosses in. Next game Rooney should play behind Sturridge, with Welbeck and Sterling on the wings.
Once again the utter drama queens make an embarrassment out of the Caf. You bell ends.
Had he scored we would have won the match.
No he did not, he played on the left a lot as well as between the lines allowing Ronaldo to go centrally. Nani did nothing worth of note in Moscow as well. Rooney scored and assisted many goals in that CL, much more than Nani for example. Without his contribution it's doubtful United would have won as many titles as they did.
That for republiko.
2006/2007
Goals + assists
1st: Cristiano Ronaldo (30) 36% (overall goal involvement)
2nd: Wayne Rooney (25) 30%
3rd: Louis Saha (13), Ryan Giggs (13) 16%
2007/2008
1st: Cristiano Ronaldo (38) 48%
2nd: Wayne Rooney (25) 31%
3rd: Carlos Tevez (21) 26%
2008/2009
Goals + assists
1st: Cristiano Ronaldo (24) 35%
2nd: Dimitar Berbatov (19), Wayne Rooney (19) 28%
2009/2010
Goals + assists
1st: Wayne Rooney (31) 36%
2nd: Dimitar Berbatov (19) 22%
3rd: Ryan Giggs (16) 19%
My addition
2010/2011 (CL, PL via whoscored)
Goals + assists
1st: Rooney (28)
2nd: Berbatov (25)
3rd: Nani (24)
Rooney overall contribution the 5 seasons (from 08-09 to 12-13) stands at 31%. Not bad for a national embarrassment you have to say.
Even after Real games Fergie continued to use Rooney in all games until the title was secured. This speaks to his importance. Also Rooney had 12(g)+10(a) in PL and 1+3 in CL, 26 goals and assists in total. That's more than everybody else except RVP. And that includes such a sorry excuses for a football player as Nani, who only managed a grand total of one goal and two assists in the whole season in CL and PL. Or Kagawa who had 11 goals and assists that season. So even while being off-form he still managed to be our second best player in attack that year and deliver 25+ goals and assists. Sp while not being a main man, he still was a vital and very important part of our league win.
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I fail to see why you are counting CL games when we didn't win it that season. The argument was mainly about what Rooney's contribution has been in the titles we have won. The only title we won in 10/11 was the league title and Berbatov and Nani made more meaningful contribution to the title that season than overweight Rooney ever did. Concentrate on the league games and leave competitions where we failed out of it - there are no credits given for competitions we didn't win, is there?
So I ask again - what was Rooney's contribution in the league in comparison to Berbatov that won a golden boot without a single penalty kick to rack up his tally? I am sure that's unprecedented in the history of the Premier League. Rooney scores about 10 open play goals and then add about 5-8 penalty goals to it and he's hyped to the high heavens as the messiah. You know you are clutching at straws talking about the quality of the opposition - if we had beaten those small teams this year, we wouldn't have finished 7th on the table. 3 points is 3 points. You get no extra point for beating a "tough team".
Not sure if this has been posted but I thought this article was a nice bit of sanity among all the rabid scapegoating.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-perfect-time-to-prove-his-worth-9539235.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-perfect-time-to-prove-his-worth-9539235.html
Had he scored, there's no guarantee we would have won even at the Bernebau. Jose would have conjured something out to equalise. He rarely loses at home.
Nani and Anderson took penalty kicks that helped us win Chelsea. Rooney was having an early bath when this was happening.
In that period, Rooney had the luxury of scoring close to 18 penalty kicks to add to the stats. Berbatov never got such incentive to pile up his stats. Remove Penalty kicks from Rooney's stats and he's Jon Walters at the very best. This is why he's got a total of 0 goals in 9 World Cup games.
Dropping him in United's biggest game spoke of his irrelevance in the grand scheme of things. There's no way Madrid or Barcelona would drop Ronaldo/Messi in the same circumstance. Rooney had 26 goals in PL & CL games but how many minutes of football did he accrue? 2,470 minutes.
In comparison, Kagawa copped 1500 minutes and Nani got 893 minutes. Lane, stop being economical with the truth in your statistics. Rooney gets to spend more time on the pitch. He assists a truck load of goals from set plays and he gets a free shot from 12 yards to rack up his stats. In 11/12 season alone, Rooney scored 10 times from the penalty spot. Won't his statistics be skewed in comparison to players like Berbatov or Nani who rarely scores from spot kicks?
Then name me a single one major title than we won without Rooney contribution at all in these years. He was vital in every single one of them.
I counted C goals because they are important. That was a great effort by United, we were overplayed in final by a great team but still managed to do really well, much better than in many "pre-Rooney" years back in early 2000s.
Berbatov racked up his tally by scoring 5 goals in Rovers trashing and so on. He won a golden boot, but was dropped for important matches, like a CL final, which "spoke of his irrelevance in the grand scheme of things".
That's because Fergie deemed him good enough to start and relied on him to deliver.
That is because he is a total failure as a professional football player and could not even be fit for most of that season. Total embarrassment of human being. Just pathetic. 4 goals in 34 matches over the last two seasons. It does not get much worse than that.
So did Ronaldo and RVP.
As for Berbatov, his CL record speaks for itself. Two goals to Aalborg BK, two goals to Celtic. One goal against Benfica. Total of 5 goals in 26 european games. Even there Berbatov is a small time striker. Very poor. Total embarrassment for MU. I was shamed that he was United record transfer.
Funny how people in this thread are more than happy to use the 'played out of position' card when any other player would be attacked for that performance (re: Kagawa).
That said, I actually agree with them. Rooney is a great striker, put him up front and give him service. He'll perform.
That said, I actually agree with them. Rooney is a great striker, put him up front and give him service. He'll perform.
you're missing the point. He had a chance to equalise that he missed. All the talk before the game was about him finally performing at the world cup which he didn't do.
Shut the feck up and behave. The scapegoating of Nani, Young, Cleverley whoever has gone too far. Criticize our players but to a limit. You're a turd for calling him an embarrassing human being TBF. Tell you what ? Nani has contributed more to United than you ever will. Just keep that in perspective.
All the talk about the game was what? Where did you hear that, cause I've only heard the opposite. Plus, you said people wouldn't look at his overall poor performance even if he was to create or score a goal?
Which are two of the hardest things to do in football. What point am I missing?
He is not a bad player. My argument is that he needs to step up in the tournament. scoring against the likes of Montenegro and Andorra in qualification can't be compared to a match against Italy, Germany. Last season he was being called our best player for scoring against the likes of Norwich but in games against Chelsea, Liverpool he was missing.
You either have a terrible memory or you're being deliberately disingenuous if you're only going to use last season as evidence of Rooney's alleged inability to score against big teams. You can say what you like about Rooney but one of his most important qualities is the exact opposite to what you're implying. His track record for United of scoring against the best teams around is absolutely superb.
This has been discussed to death on the CAF. Rooney in the middle whether upfront or behind the striker will definately contribute to goals. However he also gives the ball away a lot, he often goes out of position and tries to play everywhere, the team plays one dimensional because likes to pass the ball to the wingers then rush into the box and he generally slows down things. If Rooney is played as a number 10 for England the fluidity from Sturridge, Sterling and Welbeck would be affected. This is why he was dropped for the Madrid game.This is why RVP was 1st chice striker. This is why there are people who want Mata or Kagawa as the number10 in the team.
You'd think Rooney would be a certain starter for England in his best position, build the team around him like other teams do with their star players. Except England obviously, who will fail again this year (and all the years before)
I'm not being disingenous. I'm using last season because I agree with Scholes that he is past his best. he is never going to get better as a player. I think he is no longer in a position where a team can be built around him for club or country. I don't believe England will play better than they did against Italy if he is played in his so called natural position. I don't think he will play better than he did if he is played as a striker or number 10 against Uruguay. I just don't see how it makes sense to shift Sturridge or Sterling to accommodate Rooney on current form.
Hold one, your running way with yourself. I'm not interested in your keyboard Champ man 14 tactics, read what you wrote, and thats all I've responded too. You said if Rooney scores and creates a chance, people may miss the fact that overall he played crap.
I wrote scoring and assisting are two off the hardest things to do in football. I would sooner that than playing brill and not doing either of those two
Because football is a moving and changing business and footballers evolve too - for better or worse. Rooney, for instance, has lot some of his physical abilities and gained in passing and football intelligence. I just don't think the current package makes him a good number 10.
As for Chelsea, I'm sure he'd do well with Hazard, Oscar, etc behind him. Because he'd be playing upfront, which is his best role nowaways.
England press are smart. Rooney's already set up before he kicked a football at this world cup. We go out, the media blame Rooney, and yet another Man Utd player used as a scapegoat for a poor tournament......
Or Rooney Could you know actually step up and perform so he can't be a scapegoat.
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