Not sure what your point is, that was certainly true in some of the previous games where our midfield and attack lacked any link and we looked clueless.
Whether that's Rooney's personal fault or tactical reasons by Moyes is debatable.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Whether that's Rooney's personal fault or tactical reasons by Moyes is debatable.
How long do people think he'll stick around before he asks to leave for a third time?
give him a 5 year contract and then sign a couple of midfielders in that order.
No, I don't think he is. If Brwned wanted to bring that up, he would have, but that isn't what he meant. And I think you'll find that I've blamed Moyes just as much as Rooney, but of course, you know that, right? Of course, playing Rooney high up the field is all to do with the manager and nothing to do with the player, right? But you can go back to ignoring such details.
Can't really use that against MoneyMay when it's Rooney's own quote about him having to be more selfish and not wanting to play in midfield.
It's a pretty fine line between saying that Rooney is the problem because of him pressuring the manager to play him in a certain position, and saying that he's refusing to play anywhere else.
Right, so now I said Rooney's refusing to play elsewhere (which isn't true), despite me attributing the positional change to Moyes' management and Rooney combined? And despite me saying that Rooney's played as a second striker/#10/whateveryouwanttocallit for most of the season. Keep going though.
brilliant header today
would have been a disaster had we let him go
focus now on a new contract and bringing in players of his class to compliment him
would have been a disaster had we let him go
focus now on a new contract and bringing in players of his class to compliment him
Pretty much this. Brilliant season he is having and needs to be offered new contract.
You've done a great job of making this very confusing. Rooney has been to blame for our whole season, even though he's been playing well (other than a 2 or 3 match spell earlier this month) and in the right position?
Would you humour me enough to briefly outline what your point is again... I think I must have missed a crucial post early on!
No, not at all. You're trying your hardest to take points out of context and the fabrications are that of a man who is desperate. Be truthful, at least I can take you seriously... Who said Rooney was to blame for our whole season? I sure didn't. I said that, in the context of two games, he was playing higher up because of Moyes' tactics and his own ego. I don't know what you're talking about with the second sentence, it's all just drivel. What I also said is that Rooney has played very good (not great) as a second striker this season (and I also cited his performance vs. Bayer Leverkusen as his best this season), so there was no need for us to risk losing fluidity in the middle.
My posts have nothing to do with Brwned's point. Surely, he would have quoted one of my posts.
Honestly I'm not, I'm genuinely confused.
Look, you said this:
If there's some subtle nuance I'm missing, then tell me, but please don't accuse me of not being truthful. It's you that appears to be more guilty of that.
Easily our best player so far this season.
Fair enough, at least you know my stance on this situation, which differs to what Brwned pointed out.
What Rooney being a "problem" means is that Moyes has to ensure that he doesn't hurt his confidence by starting him out of position, even though him starting as a midfielder might be more beneficiary to the team. Maybe the wrong word choice from your point of view, but I certainly am not guilty of anything in this debate.
He has to convinced to for the team's benefit and for his own, it's better to play between the midfield and RVP/Hernandez. It's not gonna prevent from getting chances and scoring goals.
OK, so playing right up front counts as somewhere we don't get the benefit from him, but it's somewhere Moyes may be pressured to play him. And midfield is obviously where he doesn't want to play, but you feel would be good for the team.
But where does playing as a deep-lying forward / no 10 fit in? Do you think Moyes would worry about Rooney's feelings on playing there, or would Rooney be happy with that? And do we get the best of him there, or does he need to be further back as a genuine midfielder for us to play our best?
Playing right up front means that onus is on the wingers to drift infield and start creating chances. At other times, the wingers job is to cross the ball in the box, so there is no need for Rooney to drop deep, but when he plays high up the field, he doesn't drop deep enough. I don't believe midfield would be good for him, but I do believe that when we need him to play there, he should accept the manager's decision. If I was Rooney, I would be flattered if a manager asked me to play in midfield because it's a massive complement to his skill-set.
What do you mean? Playing as a second striker/#10 is his best position and he's played there for most of the season, so there's no reason for Moyes to change the system. We've already seen that it has a negative influence on the team. Why would Moyes worry about Rooney playing there when it's his best position? I think he just wanted to test him playing higher. I'd be very surprised if we seen Rooney playing higher up in any of our fixtures later this year (2013), unless of course it's Kagawa behind Rooney.
Ran his bollocks off today and sacrificed for the team when he was asked to play deeper into midfield when Chicharito came on. I think its time for us to lock him into a new long-term contract if he is finally happy at the club again.
So for you it's playing in midfield (which is best for the team, but not to Rooney's liking) vs playing as no 10 or further forward (neither of which is as good for the team, but he's happy to play either), right?
Now I've seen your points about how when he's gone right up top there's too much space behind and it doesn't work, and that's fair enough, but as you say, that's been a minority of matches. I'm not at all clear on why you think him playing no 10 is a problem?
Now I've seen your points about how when he's gone right up top there's too much space behind and it doesn't work, and that's fair enough, but as you say, that's been a minority of matches. I'm not at all clear on why you think him playing no 10 is a problem?
My point is basically that this suggestion is nonsense:
Before he was moved into midfield today he spent more time out wide than Kagawa. Against City he played on the left wing for the last 20 (?) minutes. In that Sunderland game he obviously dropped back into midfield more to close the game out after Januzaj's second. When we need to shut games down he'll still drop into midfield and when we need to bring on a third forward he'll move out wide as he's always done, he just didn't like being shackled in midfield from the start.
Although I don't agree with what you're saying, personally.
It's none of that. You're confusing me now. I want him to play as a second striker/#10.
Simply put, I don't think him as a #10 is a problem at all. I only think when he's a centre-forward, alongside Van Persie, that's when the problem arises because of a couple of factors. As a #10, he certainly doesn't have the vision, but my point is he should always play here, unless injuries dictate elsewhere.
OK we must be the two most confused people on the caf.
Why did you say he's been the problem all season, when you also say he's been playing no10 for most of the season?
In fairness, there have been loads of times over the past three years when van Persie has pulled a rabbit out of the hat. He was carrying Arsenal for two seasons. He's just not in great nick at the moment, which is clouding perceptions.
On Rooney, it's funny, because I don't think he's in particularly great form. He's upped it from last season, but there's still more to come. He's produced more complete performances for England than he has for us thus far this term.
I hope Moyes can convince him to play at CM long term. It would solve many of our midfield issues and it would mask his lack of close control when around the box.
OK, sort of get that. But I'm not sure that the manager being worried about potentially having to ask a player to play in a position that isn't his best, is a major problem that you can put our failings down to.
Unless you think that in most situations Rooney playing in midfield would be more benificial, but you don't.
If it emerged that Jones hates playing right-back, it would maybe limit our options a bit, but it wouldn't have a drastic effect on our season. Not exactly the same situation, I know, but I'd say you've only got a problem if the position a player wants to play isn't their best.
Why laugh?
I said this during the summer he is our best player. But he needs the old arm round the shoulder, but is our most influential player and this season has carried us. He is captain material. Not in the same class but similar to Eric in 96
IMO
I think he's more like Ernie - short, fat hairy legs and a wig. 
I've always considered Rooney a better player than RvP, regardless of the form of either of them. Many of course will disagree, but we really should just do what we need to do to keep him here and build the team around him.
Yup.
Love him or hate him he is vital. I still can't get over the idiots during summer happy to see him go to Chelsea.
Did they exist? I know a lot weren't too bothered about him leaving as long as it wasn't to Chelsea.
There was loads, the preference was abroad but either wAy they wanted him out
See, I'm of the opposite view, as I think there's only a fag paper between them, and as far as I'm concerned the 'better' player is the one in the best form at the time of the debate.
I was just railing against the idea that Rooney's a better player than RvP when the chips are down. The latter has a pretty impressive body of work when it comes to producing magic at times of need.
I always preferred to see Rooney stay, but those who wanted to flog abroad were justified too - he was well below par last season, unprofessional in terms of his conditioning and then he agitated to leave.
I share the exact same sentiment.
Giggs was shit in 95 , also in the media for loads of celeb crap at the time, should have sold home back then...
I'm not saying that, in fairness.
The Rooney thing clearly wasn't a press fabrication. Although Rooney kept his cards close to his chest, his team were constantly briefing that he was looking to get away. Fair play to the club for standing firm.
Shit form is acceptable if it's just one of those things, but Rooney went through a patch where he was overweight, and that's less easy to accept. Rank unprofessionalism when you're the club's top earner isn't really on.
And all of that is before we even mention that fact that he publicly held the club over a barrel for his previous contract.
Given this backdrop, as I said, I can totally understand why fans were happy to see the back of him.
As I've already stated, the biggest thing for me is that there's so much more to come from Rooney - he's not in absolutely brilliant form, but rather just doing well in an under performing side.
Either here nor there, was a lot who were happy to see him join Chelsea and many who felt he had already seen his best days. Confident we didn't need him.... Well we would probably be in bottom 5 if it was for Rooney.
Too many were smitten by RVP last season.
Too many were smitten by RVP last season.
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