Or maybe Fergie did 'suck it up' but his patience ran thin.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
- Status
Or maybe Fergie did 'suck it up' but his patience ran thin.
Not surprised at that - nor do I think ill of Gaz for saying it. He's towing the party line a little bit, I think - like Robbo and others have done. And why not? The club wants him to stay, as vexing as that might be for some (or many, here and now) of its fans.
The one thing he should've left out is the incident three years ago. That was about getting a fatter contract, little else.
Yes. And it's not really sucking up either. You treat your players as most benefits what you are trying to achieve with the team. Fergie was a master at this. But he got fed up with certain players over the years, falling out with them when possibly he could've extended their United careers by being more lenient - it happens, and not everything a great manager does is calculated down to the last detail: They're human, after all.
Saying Fergie might have been less than a hundred percent fair and utterly sympathetic to Wayne Rooney in his last season doesn't amount to taking Rooney's side. I'd back Fergie over any player, regardless of whether he was absolutely justified or not: Rooney, for all his contributions, is a footnote in the club's history compared to Fergie. The players he fell out with and effectively pushed away were replaced and nobody can say for certain whether we would've been any better in the long run had they stayed. The same goes for Rooney. But the vast difference now, for us, is that Fergie isn't in charge anymore: Moyes will have to find his own way - and he could certainly do without losing one of his best players, in messy circumstances, before getting on with his first season at the helm. That's a big part of this - for me. Had Fergie been in charge still, I'd be much more indifferent to this whole bloody saga.
Or possibly Sir Alex began preparing for moment last summer with the signing of Kagawa and RVP.
Moreover, Rooney only exacerbated any doubts by first being unfit at the beginning of 2012/13 and then responding to an increasingly competitive squad with a sense of entitlement.
The sections about Rooney's irreplaceable personality and irrelevant historical comparisons came across as daft to me even if he is talking the party line. Maybe that's harsh but there we are.
Yes, I can see that. It's obviously a bit much. But that would be the "party line" bit, wouldn't it? Bigging him up to make him feel special. If that's what he craves to hear as much as possible - well, it may make us cringe, but it's logical enough that Nev says it.
That's me defending Nev - not Rooney.
Gary is a coach with England so he'll have plenty of chances this week to tell Wayne what he thinks.
Gaz appears to be talking about a past, 'street footballer' Rooney, not the one who gets paid for tweets & kicks up a faux fuss every time there's contract negotiations upcoming. And if you think I'm being harsh & biased, well, the present Wayne Rooney can't even be bothered to mention United in a tweet or a Facebook entry...but he's got plenty of time for Nike and England stuff. He has been trying to distance himself from United for a while.
That's true. I don't particularly like that he's part of that mob, but he can do a job for us now: Convince the stupid and/or oversensitive bastard that he's better off staying.
Very fair points, as regards Rooney. But Neville is saying these things for a reason, I think. These are tactical comments. Party line - and also, I think, Nev being concerned as a United man. Or maybe I just want Nev to reason as I do...Well, the party line bit holds true at any rate, I'd wager on that.
Yeah, I don't blame him for making those comments - it's understandable why he's done so.
I agree. Fergies success was based on his man management skills and keeping the group together. Anyone who stepped ou of line ended up gone - regardless of who they were. He was wise last time this happened because United needed Rooney and both Fergie and Wayne new it - so he let his behaviour go. He's not that vital any more.
For me you can't have players calling the shots - Fergie wouldn't have I so why should Moyes have to put up with it.
Rooney is a fool if he thinks a move else where is a step up, but if he thinks so let him go, wring Chelsea out and get the money invested elsewhere.
I honestly think we need to make a decision quickly. Its getting closer to the end of the window and with each passing day its going to be harder to find a replacement. If we have no takers from abroad, then we have to do everything to not sell him to Chelsea.
What's the rush? United have said, he is not for sell.
The way this looks (and looks may be deceiving, by all means) two things seem likely to me: One, Maureen/Roman won't slap down a sufficiently huge amount on the table to justify selling him. I don't think they're ready to pay truly silly money for him (could be wrong, but that's my hunch). Two, we won't be able to replace him as such, not by re-investing whatever money we make in another player, and certainly not a player in same position(s).
The latter is not my biggest worry. Rooney isn't irreplaceable, that's not what this is about at all: We have enough talent, both proven and still developing, to make up for losing him. Some of our players may even benefit from him leaving, giving them more minutes (I'm thinking of Hernandez in particular here).
The problem is selling him to a rival whose team he would strengthen considerably. It's not a good idea in general, and it's a particularly bad one ahead of Moyes' first season in charge. Like I said, we are strong enough in theory to cope just fine without him, but there are X-factors here, considerable ones: What if RVP goes and gets himself injured? Is Hernandez really ready to step up and fill the role like a true world beater? Or is his game ultimately too limited - i.e. is his true calling that of a deadly box player, still a very useful man for us, but not a candidate for the main man spot. And then there's Kagawa. I hope and believe he will become a huge success this season. And if he does, we have our man in the hole, so to speak: I think we can all agree that Rooney's want-away status would've been far less worrying if Kagawa had already proven himself beyond question for us. But the fact is that he hasn't, not yet.
The point is that keeping Rooney - even if it turns out to be for just one season - is the safer option here. I don't see us being sufficiently remunerated for letting Chelsea have him: And, if we're not, selling him would mainly amount to giving in to his (and possibly his bloody agent's) wishes - not making the choice that leaves us in the best possible position. And, yes, I realize that this depends on him not going on strike, or under-performing at will, or any such nonsense. But, then, I don't think he'll go down that road. He is well regarded by his team mates, and he doesn't seem to have fallen out with Moyes. That's where it stands now, we'll see if he eventually comes out and makes some damning statements that would complicate matters. But he hasn't done that so far.
The latter is not my biggest worry. Rooney isn't irreplaceable, that's not what this is about at all: We have enough talent, both proven and still developing, to make up for losing him. Some of our players may even benefit from him leaving, giving them more minutes (I'm thinking of Hernandez in particular here).
The problem is selling him to a rival whose team he would strengthen considerably. It's not a good idea in general, and it's a particularly bad one ahead of Moyes' first season in charge. Like I said, we are strong enough in theory to cope just fine without him, but there are X-factors here, considerable ones: What if RVP goes and gets himself injured? Is Hernandez really ready to step up and fill the role like a true world beater? Or is his game ultimately too limited - i.e. is his true calling that of a deadly box player, still a very useful man for us, but not a candidate for the main man spot. And then there's Kagawa. I hope and believe he will become a huge success this season. And if he does, we have our man in the hole, so to speak: I think we can all agree that Rooney's want-away status would've been far less worrying if Kagawa had already proven himself beyond question for us. But the fact is that he hasn't, not yet.
The point is that keeping Rooney - even if it turns out to be for just one season - is the safer option here. I don't see us being sufficiently remunerated for letting Chelsea have him: And, if we're not, selling him would mainly amount to giving in to his (and possibly his bloody agent's) wishes - not making the choice that leaves us in the best possible position. And, yes, I realize that this depends on him not going on strike, or under-performing at will, or any such nonsense. But, then, I don't think he'll go down that road. He is well regarded by his team mates, and he doesn't seem to have fallen out with Moyes. That's where it stands now, we'll see if he eventually comes out and makes some damning statements that would complicate matters. But he hasn't done that so far.
Rooney expecting to start every game is a problem of utds and safs own making. For years I've been saying he should be picked on form like everyone else. But no, half fit? Start him, woefully out of form, start him, now the scouse dimwit expects to start every game regardless, and I cannt entirely blame him.
I think you've got it spot on....
Inevitably Rooney will paint himself as a victim when he gets a negative reaction from the crowd
Moyes has said he has been training well so hopefully his attitude has improved
MARK OGDEN AND JEREMY WILSON – 13 AUGUST 2013
Wayne Rooney is ready to make himself available for Manchester United's Premier League opener at Swansea City by proving his fitness to David Moyes in England's friendly against Scotland tomorrow.
Rooney, yet to play for United in pre-season because of hamstring and shoulder injuries, remains determined to leave Old Trafford for Chelsea. Despite that, he is also fully prepared to return to action for United while his future remains uncertain.
Moyes and United have maintained throughout the summer that Rooney will not be sold, despite Chelsea lodging bids of £20m and £30m for the 27-year-old.
With Rooney forced to return from United's pre-season tour of Asia and Australia after just 24 hours last month as a result of a hamstring injury, followed by the shoulder problem sustained against Real Betis, he has been denied the match action necessary to boost his fitness to the required levels.
But the player is understood to have embraced a demanding fitness programme in recent weeks and that has left him believing he is capable of returning to action at the Liberty Stadium on Saturday.
Wayne Rooney is ready to make himself available for Manchester United's Premier League opener at Swansea City by proving his fitness to David Moyes in England's friendly against Scotland tomorrow.
Rooney, yet to play for United in pre-season because of hamstring and shoulder injuries, remains determined to leave Old Trafford for Chelsea. Despite that, he is also fully prepared to return to action for United while his future remains uncertain.
Moyes and United have maintained throughout the summer that Rooney will not be sold, despite Chelsea lodging bids of £20m and £30m for the 27-year-old.
With Rooney forced to return from United's pre-season tour of Asia and Australia after just 24 hours last month as a result of a hamstring injury, followed by the shoulder problem sustained against Real Betis, he has been denied the match action necessary to boost his fitness to the required levels.
But the player is understood to have embraced a demanding fitness programme in recent weeks and that has left him believing he is capable of returning to action at the Liberty Stadium on Saturday.
Am I the only one who doesn´t care any more??
If he leaves I´ll take Glory Gaynor´s stand on this and I will survive or better yet we will..
If he leaves I´ll take Glory Gaynor´s stand on this and I will survive or better yet we will..
I agree with this but I think that's why the old guard are coming out in support of him staying - to save Moyes having to show any perceived weakness. It is galling that the Roon is apparently so weak-willed but it is not at all surprising. There are few celebrities of his status - he was the equivalent of a child star in many ways - that handle themselves in a sensible and dignified manner over their careers. I worry he could piss the whole thing up the wall if he ends up at the wrong club. He wouldn't be the first or last.
That's an incredible amount of assumptions you make in favour of Rooney and against Fergie. Yes, you treat different players differently. What makes you think that football's greatest man manager suddenly decided not to do that for a special case called Wayne Rooney? That's absurd IMO. Ferguson knew how to handle this stuff and was always fair to his players. He stood by them as long as they gave him commitment. And he knew how to treat each player and their respective personalities. Rooney is no different. Fergie has given him a lot of leeway over the years, like he always does with his better players. I have seen nothing ever over the last almost decade to suggest that fergie didn't treat Rooney in the way that someone of Rooney's personality required. And it's given great results too.
People argue two things against fergie:
1. That he hasn't been fair on Rooney in terms of dropping him from big games: well, it's not fair on Manchester United for fergie to not play his best team. And if he feels that his best team, on the day, is one without Rooney, Rvp or whoever, for whatever the player might be lacking in that moment in time, then he's right to go in without them. If Rooney isn't committed or isn't in form and someone else is a better option then the manager should play that other player. He played welbeck against real who did great in that game and it was the right decision in the club's best interest.
2. That fergie shouldn't have hung Rooney out to dry and been more reconcilliatory: like I said, this man is possibly the greatest man manager in the history of the game. If he's gone so public with Wayne wanting to play then he would have done so with ample reason. What do we want? Fergie to suddenly bend over backwards for all his players attitude issues? If he had done that over the last 26 years, he wouldn't be the manager he was, and we wouldn't be as successful as we have been. His ability to keep the team under his control has been one his great strengths. Everything at united started and ended with fergie and anyone out of line with that became either expendable or reprimand able. So I'm sorry, you can be Wayne Rooney or Ruud Van Nistelrooy, fergie has a job to do and he'll do it using discipline and compassion based on your actions and how sees fit according to them. So yeah, I'm not going to "side" with fergie because it's too simplistic I'm going to believe his actions were based on principles of management that are at the heart of his incredible success.
"...remains determined to leave for Chelsea" yet has not handed in an official transfer request and apparently is wanting to be picked for our opening game? Something doesn't add up there.
Maybe he's following SAF advice the last time he had a strop and acting like a professional till he gets the move.
I presume that he's both protecting any loyalty bonuses etc. that might be lost if he made a transfer request and also making sure that if he is forced to stay, he's not forced into an embarrassing public climbdown.
An official transfer request, I would have thought, would be a professional way of conducting things? Rather than have a cnut of an agent drip feeding the media about bollocks.
Re: Brophs - it's not as if needs the loyalty bonus though is it? I simply cannot imagine someone who earns £180,000 a week basic being bothered about a loyalty bonus when he's already a millionaire and could possibly earn more at the club he wants to move to...
Re: Brophs - it's not as if needs the loyalty bonus though is it? I simply cannot imagine someone who earns £180,000 a week basic being bothered about a loyalty bonus when he's already a millionaire and could possibly earn more at the club he wants to move to...
It's partly about the money and partly about the image. "United forced me out" can be used if he doesn't hand it in, making the club seem like "the bad guy" in this situation whereas he was the angel who didn't want to move but was forced to, oh what terrible fate!
It's quite likely to be worth millions of pounds. I'm sure his agent wouldn't be advising him just to hand over money like that, particularly it Rooney does feel wronged in all of this.
Aye, Stretford isn't going to want to lose that bonus in a hurry... if there's one thing money grabbing cnuts love - it's more money.
Question is, is Rooney just biding time before putting in a transfer request closer to end of window in case transfer gets done naturally or has the fact he hasnt put one in yet show he's not going to?
Weather the Transfer request will do anything?...
Weather the Transfer request will do anything?...
Loyality and Rooney well that´s somehow not going together..
One thing is for certain in my eyes, Rooney will be at United at least until after the Chelsea match. We won't sell him to them before then. It'll be interesting as to what will happen after it though.
You're right it was, in part, a problem of United's making and I'm sure that factored into Sir Alex's thinking when he went for Kagawa and Van Persie. Still, Rooney's attitude has been awful. How must the other players in the squad feel? Chicharito has scored 50 goals in 3 seasons for United without ever being a regular starter and doesn't moan? Nani...as frustrating as he can be was only two years back the best player in our team and yet can't even get into the team. If you're in the squad, you're on form and you are dropped for a player who clearly isn't at the top of his game and is not looking like he'll return to form, how do you feel when you're instantly benched to make room for him?
Rooney has proved again why Ronaldo has gone on to be the better player. I remember when we bought Karel Poborsky after his sparkling Euroo 96 and everyone (aka the media) predicted it would the end of the young David Beckham. But Beckham rose to the challenge. Competition made him a better player not a worse one. You can say the same for Scholes when Veron arrived. Likewise Andy Cole when Yorke was brought in by all accounts to replace him. It has been the trademark of Man Utd greats that when the gauntlet is thrown down they stand up to be counted. I genuinely don't know how Rooney would react to being systematically booed like Ronaldo was after Germany 2006, just look at his childish behaviour at the last World Cup when England fans expressed unhappiness with him and that was one game. Ronaldo, was a Ferguson player, you hate him and it makes him stronger, you push him and he pushes himself further. Rooney lacks that. He's been weighed, measured and found wanting mentally. Made to fight for his place and reassert himself he's spat his dummy out instead.
You guys are so paranoid 
.
.Yeh right, so United fans are really going to believe that big bad United forced out poor little defenceless Rooney.
No player is bigger than the club etc.
Footballers aren't always the brightest bunch, fans are even more fickle sometimes. It's not going to work on you nor me, but it will definitely work on others.
it isn't necessarily about his image from united fans though.
Surely though the "forced out" idea does not sit at all with the club's stance so far, i.e. he's not for sale and we want to keep him? Besides, if he did move, the members of our fanbase who are stupid enough to swallow that shite over what the club has to say are welcome to follow Rooney to Stamford Bridge; they are most certainly not wanted.
"Big bad United was lying, they forced me out, poor me, I was left on the streets, Chelsea saved me.... etc etc"
It sells papers, and undoubtedly some fans will buy it (whether united or non united fans).
Absolutely perfect post.
Ive said it before and been laughed at and shouted down but he is mentally weak. unlike your Ronaldos/Beckhams/Cantonas etc who all took the pressure and used it to make them stronger, Rooney cannt do that.
- Status