Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Brwned said:
You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment in football in that case.
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:lol: it aint what it used to be alright...

In all seriousness, I don't think my boss would accept, well I am mid twenties, I haven't been producing anything up to my usual standard but my personal life is distracting...

The boss who didn't show you where the door is would be the odd one out I think, they're not subject to some special sensitive life where their 'stress' of 'life' is deemed so much harder than everyone else's so that it makes their drop in output acceptable. I don't think its strange to expect that people who are being paid over 20x the average person should perhaps try a bit harder to leave their shit at home, especially when, chances are, they have a lot less 'real' problems.

(I appreciate that last bit sounded ignorant, but you knew what I meant).
 
Chabon said:
Because when asked to explain or even justify the anger and bile thrown at Rooney, the arguments used to tend to imply that they should also hate about half a dozen other players, prominently including Ronaldo. And yet they don't...
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Sounds like a symptom of the information vacuum the story is now experiencing. Rooney's actions or inaction has been talked out so the beast has moved on to arguing the nuances of people's reactions to his actions.

As mufcwarm92 pointed out a few posts back we'd have had a decision to make anyway. As much as there is an element of 2010 in the annoyance this time around, Rooney has to lay in the bed he made for himself during that controversy [in the wages he sought and the claims he made about future signings whether he believed them or not].
 
I've dished out my share of criticism to Rooney in this thread, but I'm not amongst those who feel he has had a poor season per se.
 
Do we want to keep a player who throws a hissy fit everytime he gets dropped for a big game due to his own poor form?

I think not.
 
Brwned said:
It's completely bemusing to me why no-one picks up on the similarities with Evra's situation. He wanted to leave in 2010, had two below-par seasons following that (including countless examples of seriously lazy defending) and yet no-one associates that lack of form or lazy, complacent play with him wanting away. It's just him playing poorly.
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Evra may well have had thoughts about leaving but he didnt play the whole thing out in the media to get a better contract, neither did he ever make disparaging public statements about the club.
Plus many slagged him off for his poor form and wanted him sold.

The only person who ever did that apart from Rooney was Keane, and he left the club soon after.
 
Plechazunga said:
People keep saying this. He's had one below-average season, when he was still one of our most influential players.
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I'd say two, if we're including this. The one just after & including the 2010 WC was worse than this one for the most part. By his usual standards.
 
Mockney said:
I'd say two, if we're including this. The one just after & including the 2010 WC was worse than this one for the most part. By his usual standards.
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He was sensational in the latter part of that season though.
 
He ended it well, yes. Though his goal of the season against City & goal in the CL final probably obscures how poor his form was for large parts. It was his lowest scoring season for us too...apart from this one (in fact they're both the same with 16. He managed 17 & 19 in his first 2 seasons with us)
 
i'm with steve in this thread. There's no evidence to suggest Rooney's decline will stop, next season he may be even worse if media reports on his fitness and general health are anything to go by, plus his loss of motivation playing for us. His rubbish all-round performances were covered by him still getting goals and assists, which only just about made the season acceptable by his standards. I'd suggest that Rooney was partly to blame for some of our dire football. No way we should be given him 200k a week based on last season.
 
Wayne Rooney can't handle the fact that he's no longer indispensable!! We could now sell him and replace him with another top striker because RVP has taken up the role as star striker.

So his inconsistent form has led him to being dropped, taken off and he hasn't liked it. Instead of becoming fitter, stronger, better and showing SAF that he's wrong, he chose to sulk. Then, he chooses to hand in a transfer request.

3 years ago we couldn't afford to lose him. After losing Ronaldo, it would have been a disaster to lose Rooney too. It would have sent a message to the world that we were no longer competitive and were a selling club. Also, he was 24 and could have become a superstar. Now, you're left wondering how good will he be when he's 30/31 and is he worth 200k a week. Could we have someone better and younger for 100/150k a week?
 
Plechazunga said:
People keep saying this. He's had one below-average season, when he was still one of our most influential players.
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12 goals and 10 assists in 22 starts in the league. Just imagine how productive he could be with this squad around him if he could get out of this slump.
 
Mockney said:
I'd say two, if we're including this. The one just after & including the 2010 WC was worse than this one for the most part. By his usual standards.
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Ye I would say that is fair - obviously the most recent season is the one that is fresh in people's minds and influences opinions.
 
Jaybezia said:
:lol: it aint what it used to be alright...

In all seriousness, I don't think my boss would accept, well I am mid twenties, I haven't been producing anything up to my usual standard but my personal life is distracting...

The boss who didn't show you where the door is would be the odd one out I think, they're not subject to some special sensitive life where their 'stress' of 'life' is deemed so much harder than everyone else's so that it makes their drop in output acceptable.
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No-one's saying it's so much harder than everyone else's. Everyone has or will have a drop in output in work at some point because of stress and stuff going on outside of work. It's the managers job to try and minimise the impact of that on the job. If it turns out that this lack of motivation derives from wanting to be somewhere else then the manager will have a decision to make about whether he's worth enough to the business to try and convince him otherwise. Yeah, if it turns out that the manager can do nothing to motivate him/her over a significant period of time then he'll have to consider whether it'd be best for the business to just get rid of him/her, but that's hardly the first port of call. At the end of the day Rooney is an important employee in a business worth around £1bn so what's deemed "acceptable" for him in his job is going to be completely different to what's acceptable for your average man. Shit happens. If Rooney was really performing well below his level then we would've just got him off our books for a few million. Instead he's been one of the most productive players in Europe for the last two years, the last four years or simply his entire Manchester United career. 9 years of good service with a couple of wobbly moments in between is not the kind of thing that gets key members of staff sacked.

I don't think its strange to expect that people who are being paid over 20x the average person should perhaps try a bit harder to leave their shit at home, especially when, chances are, they have a lot less 'real' problems.

(I appreciate that last bit sounded ignorant, but you knew what I meant).
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People who earn more money being held to a higher level of responsibility is something that's often talked about but rarely takes place. It's not a strange viewpoint to take, it's just a bit pointless. It's not how these things work, so instead of focussing that frustration at some scouse bloke who's quite good at kicking a ball why not just accept it and move on?
 
The season after the world cup was the one where he was sent to that Training Camp for ages. Then he came back and was hugely important to our run in. I don't remember that being average. I just remember him being out for a long time, and Berbatov relished in his absence. As did Hernandez.
 
Mockney said:
He ended it well, yes. Though his goal of the season against City & goal in the CL final probably obscures how poor his form was for large parts. It was his lowest scoring season for us...apart from this one (in fact they're both the same with 16)
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He was great in some of the vital games towards the end of that season, he and Hernandez were combining well and I'v seen many describe that part of Rooney's career as some of the best football he's ever played.
 
Euro 2012 was a fiasco for Rooney also, this has been going on for some while and has affected his game right across the board.

Wayne was a player with immense natural ability at a young age and much has come easily to him easily throughout his career, however he is now at the stage where the status quo is proving inadequate so far as motivation goes and United may well not have the answer to this.

KC described him as 'effective' just now, simply effective footballers do not warrant £225,000 a week or higher and neither are they in a position to make demands.
 
Mockney said:
He ended it well, yes. Though his goal of the season against City & goal in the CL final probably obscures how poor his form was for large parts. It was his lowest scoring season for us too...apart from this one (in fact they're both the same with 16. He managed 17 & 19 in his first 2 seasons with us)
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It's more straightforward than that. In the first half of the season he was awful when fit, and not fit all that often. Then, starting on the 1st January he scored 14 goals in 24 games, getting better and better as the season went on and consistently scoring in the biggest matches.

It was his worst half-season and his best half-season one after the other. He followed it up with a great pre-season before starting 2011/12 like a fecking train. It was the best period of his career, easily, and it was only 18 months ago. 18 months ago he was indisputably one of the best players in the world, which really rather puts this terminal decline nonsense into context, I think. I don't know what the feck's been up with him in 18 months since, but I think it's vital we keep him, because I see no reason he can't get back to that level.
 
Rood said:
Ye I would say that is fair - obviously the most recent season is the one that is fresh in people's minds and influences opinions.
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He was awful at, and the first few months after coming back from the WC, despite having his best ever season the one before. It was also the season he had an affair with a prostitue, a hair transplant, and ask to leave the first time.

He clearly has trouble playing well when things aren't tip top in his head or his private life.

It's precisely what stops him being a top echelon player.
 
Mockney said:
He was awful at and coming back from the WC, despite having his best ever season the one before. It was also the season he had an affair with a prostitue, a hair transplant, and ask to leave the first time.

He clearly has trouble playing well when things aren't tip top in his head or his private life.

It's precisely what stops him being a top echelon player.
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You can take the footballer out of the street but you can't take the street out of the footballer, eh?
 
Well, fine, I'm wrong. After all, I was one of those who criticised Carrick until I was informed by other posters about his actual role in the team. I just find it difficult to change my view on Rooney's lack of effort when I've seen the evidence so often since the 2010 furore. Nonetheless if I am mistaken again, I'll be delighted for Wayne to prove me wrong in the near-future.
 
Chabon said:
It's more straightforward than that. In the first half of the season he was awful when fit, and not fit all that often. Then, starting on the 1st January he scored 14 goals in 24 games, getting better and better as the season went on and consistently scoring in the biggest matches.

It was his worst half-season and his best half-season one after the other. He followed it up with a great pre-season before starting 2011/12 like a fecking train. It was the best period of his career, easily, and it was only 18 months ago. 18 months ago he was indisputably one of the best players in the world, which really rather puts this terminal decline nonsense into context, I think. I don't know what the feck's been up with him in 18 months since, but I think it's vital we keep him, because I see no reason he can't get back to that level.
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See my reply to Rood. It's a confidence thing I think. It's not that he loses speed when he's playing shit, his touch goes to pot, which shouldn't haven anything to do with his physical decline.

It's all guess work at this point, but if he's not happy, either with his role at the club, his relationship with Fergie, his home life, Manchester, whatever it is, he's far more likely to be tin pot rubbish. You also get the feeling that media or fan pressure gets to him too. As opposed to people like Ronaldo or Beckham who'd thrive on it. When it becomes a 'thing' that he's not playing well, it gets to him. As opposed to when he's told how brilliant and wonderful he is, and suddenly gets supremely confident in his abilities (like his early 'White Pele" England performances at Euro 2004, or after Ronaldo left & he became the big man)

Plechazunga said:
Was this a different prostitute from the 'granny' one?
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Yes. At least he's moving up in the word hooker wise.
 
Mockney said:
He ended it well, yes. Though his goal of the season against City & goal in the CL final probably obscures how poor his form was for large parts. It was his lowest scoring season for us too...apart from this one (in fact they're both the same with 16. He managed 17 & 19 in his first 2 seasons with us)
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His form up until the transfer request fiasco was awful, far worse than anything we've seen from him this season, but he was excellent for the entire second half of the season. 14 goals and 7 assists in 26 starts from January 1st including a goal in the quarter-final, semi-final and final of the CL and the quarter-final of the FA Cup v Arsenal (he missed the semi-final). Plus there was that hat-trick that pretty much set us on course for the title.

Rood said:
Evra may well have had thoughts about leaving but he didnt play the whole thing out in the media to get a better contract, neither did he ever make disparaging public statements about the club.
Plus many slagged him off for his poor form and wanted him sold.

The only person who ever did that apart from Rooney was Keane, and he left the club soon after.
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What did Rooney say in public last time? All I remember is him having some silly row about an injury and then Sir Alex brought the media into it, forcing Rooney to accept the contract that was on the table. In both cases it was Sir Alex who brought the media into it and in both cases it'll likely mean Rooney stays here looking the guilty party, which is seemingly exactly how Sir Alex wanted it to play out.
 
Mockney said:
You also get the feeling that media or fan pressure gets to him too. As opposed to people like Ronaldo or Beckham who'd thrive on it. When it becomes a 'thing' that he's not playing well, it gets to him. As opposed to when he's told how brilliant and wonderful he is, and suddenly gets supremely confident in his abilities (like his early 'White Pele" England performances at Euro 2004, or after Ronaldo left & he became the big man)
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I suspect it's not a coincidence that his already middling season completely collapsed after the Madrid snub and, crucially, the resultant media feeding frenzy. I'm not sure how happy I'd be in my work if every couple of months for the last eight years a major national newspaper had I asked if I was past it.

Although I'm unemployed, so actually they slag me off quite a lot.
 
So whats the verdict then? Should I sell him on fifa or not?
 
Are we not all in agreement that no player is bigger than the club? At least this club, Manchester United Football Club.
 
Ruud10 said:
Are we not all in agreement that no player is bigger than the club? At least this club, Manchester United Football Club.
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I believe we are all in agreement with this ridiculous platitude, whatever we individually take it to mean.
 
Ruud10 said:
Are we not all in agreement that no player is bigger than the club? At least this club, Manchester United Football Club.
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The Cult of Personality's coming up on the rails though. It's probably Best's fault...or CR7's (it's Suarez's day off from being a catch-all spacegoat™).
 
Brwned said:
What did Rooney say in public last time? All I remember is him having some silly row about an injury and then Sir Alex brought the media into it, forcing Rooney to accept the contract that was on the table. In both cases it was Sir Alex who brought the media into it and in both cases it'll likely mean Rooney stays here looking the guilty party, which is seemingly exactly how Sir Alex wanted it to play out.
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I thought it was widely accepted that Rooney questioned the clubs future and it's signings? This is nothing like the Evra situation.
 
Brwned said:
What did Rooney say in public last time? All I remember is him having some silly row about an injury and then Sir Alex brought the media into it, forcing Rooney to accept the contract that was on the table. In both cases it was Sir Alex who brought the media into it and in both cases it'll likely mean Rooney stays here looking the guilty party, which is seemingly exactly how Sir Alex wanted it to play out.
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To be fair coming out in public and denying you are injured when your manager has specifically stated you are unavailable due to injury is not only silly but disrespectful.
 
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