Should swap him and RVP over. Rooney up top with RVP off him. Rooney scored 33 goals the other season in that position. And RVP looks good in the role when playing with Chicharito.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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It does look like PSG is the only option for him if he leaves.
And Rooney does have that look of an exiting player.
I think it'll be a summer of significant changes at the club.
Why bother? We have a ready made No. 10 that played way better than Rooney last night and got taken off after being involved in both equalisers.
RvP doesn't get on the ball enough when he plays off the striker. Playing Kagawa behind Rooney or RvP would be a better solution.
Oh for feck's sake I love this place! He's been anything but 'poor', 'poor' is what our wingers have been. He's been decent, nothing amazing, but a reliable season from him. And I'm not just talking about stats (though they're important and he's played a big part in the title if we do indeed clinch it), I'm talking about his play which has been ok overall. Just try to have a bit of perspective, even by his high standards he hasn't been 'poor' this season, though of course it's not his best season at all, I'll agree to that.
Perspective would be to bench him as he has been average recently. His performance against a non-show Stoke midfield should not hide that fact.
Why is it such a big deal to allow others to play given Rooney's average form?
With the league all but won, it is an excellent opportunity to allow Kagawa to play in his favoured position.
Bench him like SAF benched RvP when he wasn't impacting games recently?
RvP didn't have a good game either last night but players like him and Rooney can pop up with important goals or assists even when they and the team are playing poorly.
I just don't see what we see in him to think he'd be a good option so deep. He spends most of the game playing utterly pointless passes. His short passing has always been hit and miss. The guy is a striker/second striker not a midfielder. Play him there.
Which is why I didn't say keeping the ball better means he played better. That said, van Persie scores a goal against Stoke and West Ham and that apparently means he played well so maybe it is just all about the numbers.
Ok, so bench RVP and Rooney then. All I am saying is that average form is surely enough justification for giving other guys a chance...Chicharito (he has been more involved last few games) and Welbeck.
For me, Rooney is on a downward spiral and you can cite his historical excellence all you want.
Van Persie didn't really play well against either team, he was pretty poor in fact and two easy goals (penalty and an offside tap in) were misleading.
I just don't think you can look at someone's passing stats and say that they couldn't have had a poor game because they are good. The same thing happened after Barca v PSG - I thought Xavi had a relatively poor game by his standards with hardly any dangerous balls played and lots of knocking the ball around to Busquets and defence but then I came here and he was apparently the best player on the pitch and simply magnificent because his pass completion was 100%. It's not really that simple.
If THAT is the heartbeat of our team we need fecking surgery.
It's not. Van Persie may not be in top form but his bottom level certainly isn't as low as Rooney's, which is actually what the criticism of Rooney is about.
I'm more concern with the fact that he seems to be moving deeper and deeper whereas I'd rather see him see less of the ball but do more damage when he gets it.
Regardless. He still managed to make a difference. He scored Rooney didnt.
I agree with you about Xavi but like I said I wasn't using it as evidence of Rooney playing well. I don't think he played well and I don't think he's ever played well in centre mid for us, personally. I was just using his passing % to point out that he didn't give the ball away quite as often as people remember. Or he gave it away a lot more against Stoke than people remembered. That's it. Nothing to do with how he played overall.
But you're acting as if RvP and Rooney are poor whilst everyone around them is brilliant. Who really played well last night besides Vidic and Kagawa?
Dropping RvP and Rooney in the crunch part of the season who are capable of winning games despite the team and themselves playing poorly would be silly.
I don't advocate benching either of them.
Going by your logic all three wingers should be benched indefinitely. RvP and Rooney should be benched too. Cleverley and Anderson too? Who's left?!
As much as I love Welbeck and Chicharito theirs isn't a partnership that would instil much confidence.
He needs to kick start his career. If he's unable to do that at United, he might need to move on. We all know he's brilliant when at his best but when was he at his very best (and for how long)?
So people keep saying.
Van Persie played noticeably worse than Rooney last night, in his preferred position. Seeing as there's a consensus on here that Rooney had a bad game, what does that say about Van Persie's "bottom level"?
Luckily RVP was still involved in both of the goals, and set another on a plate for Jones.
Yet we keep hearing that Rooney shouldn't be judged by his goals alone. Go figure.
He didn't put anything "on a plate" for Jones. That was a badly directed header, about a yard behind him. Should probably have scored himself, or at least made it easier for Jones (or Kagawa, unmarked at the far post) to finish.
Fantastic pass by Rooney to set up that opportunity, by the way. Of course mentioning that doesn't fit with all the Rooney bashing in this thread.
Id like to see Rooney's (and all the other strikers performance) with a proper quality CM and flank men set in place.
It wasn't his passing that was so bad yesterday, on numerous occasions he dribbled into an opposing player or simply miscontrolled it.
I thought he was pretty poor last night but so were the team, it wasn't a great performance all round. It's the defensive mind of the team that's causing us problems, having 10 players run to the edge of our own box when the opposition has the ball is just asking for trouble and we did that all night and have been doing it for large parts of the season. Rooney and Kagawa were picking the ball up 20 yards from our goal far to often.
It's better for everybody if Rooney was playing right up with RvP, SAF needs a decent midfielder and he must surely know that now. If we dont buy one in the summer and keep dropping Rooney and Jones in there it will be mind boggling.
It's better for everybody if Rooney was playing right up with RvP, SAF needs a decent midfielder and he must surely know that now. If we dont buy one in the summer and keep dropping Rooney and Jones in there it will be mind boggling.
Rooney is a striker and he should be played upfront. If we need a CM then we should by one.
Only top quality CMs suitable for a flat 4-4-2 imo are Sweinsteigger, Dembele, Boateng and Gundogan. None of which are available.
I'm sure he'd fit Barca's style fine. He's a creative forward, can hold his own, and willing to drop deep and unselfish. Why in the world he won't fit Barca?
He looked weak and slow every time he had the ball; dribbled into dead-ends, had the turning circle of a double decker bus and got shrugged off all too easily.
Good thingwe don't play a flat 4-4-2 then, isnt it?
Mainly because Barcas style involves finding a player in a Barca shirt between 5 and 10 yards away.
Thank you for that. If anyone put anything on a plate to create that occasion, it was Rooney with a superb pass perfectly directed at RvP. I don't think the header to Jones was as bad as you're making out though, I feel Jones made a bit of a mess of it and a more technically gifted player would've buried that one.
His passing is hardly shit despite what this thread suggests
Pass Success:
Messi's 85%
Villa 84%
Rooney 83%
And Rooney's aren't mostly long passes either
The Caf can be so exaggerative at times. Rooney doesn't lose the ball half as much as people make out.
Totally agree.
There is far too much of this these days on the Caf. Trying to trump someones point with often meaningless stats.
It is annoying and misleading. No wonder alot of decent posters stick to the general these days.
It isn't really what happened. Van Persie wasn't 'noticably worse'.
Indeed, Opta and such provide lots of valuable information but ever since the Moneyball movie with Pitt came out and claimed lots of awards people have started to think of football in terms of science. You can't quantify a footballer's performance, it's not about numbers.
I see. He didn't give the ball away but he didn't produce much either, it was a poor performance. He shouldn't be played deep and that's where he found himself most of the time yesterday. The sort of form he's in he shouldn't play at all because we got better options like Kagawa at #10, Welbeck up front or Cleverley in central midfield.
Stats will never tell you how well someone played or what the overall performance was like it will only add finishing touches on the perception you get from watching it yourself, but in terms of something like giving the ball away it can suggest whether that's an accurate or exaggerated claim.
If someone says he gives the ball away on so many occasions then it's entirely relevant to point to the fact that, actually, he didn't give it away that much. It doesn't tell you how they performed but it tells you how well they kept the ball. Rooney kept the ball well, he wasn't consistently surrendering possession like some people are suggesting, it's just that he had a couple of terrible balls (just as he did v Stoke) and for some reason they've been used to define his performance. Just compare him to van Persie. He completed more passes (at a higher rate), he was dispossessed less and he gave the ball away less, yet somehow Rooney's performance was up there with Nani v Chelsea. And we're supposed to believe that there's no agenda against Rooney here. Rooney didn't use the ball well but he didn't give it away much either.
Van Persie set up Kagawa's assist and gets praised for it, Rooney plays Evra into the exact same area with a great little ball but he messes up the cutback and it's instantly forgotten...people remember the highlights and the build-up to the goals but they don't remember the great pieces of play that don't end up with a goal. I'd say that's much more likely to give you a misleading perspective on things than having a look at a few numbers. There's that link up between Rooney, van Persie and Jones already mentioned that nearly led to a goal, then there was Rooney's shot from a nicely worked corner with van Persie that nearly creeped in...he wasn't bad. This game and the Stoke game were easily two of the worst van Persie's had for us yet no-one mentions it because of those highlight moments. Strange.
Van Persie set up Kagawa's assist and gets praised for it, Rooney plays Evra into the exact same area with a great little ball but he messes up the cutback and it's instantly forgotten...people remember the highlights and the build-up to the goals but they don't remember the great pieces of play that don't end up with a goal. I'd say that's much more likely to give you a misleading perspective on things than having a look at a few numbers. There's that link up between Rooney, van Persie and Jones already mentioned that nearly led to a goal, then there was Rooney's shot from a nicely worked corner with van Persie that nearly creeped in...he wasn't bad. This game and the Stoke game were easily two of the worst van Persie's had for us yet no-one mentions it because of those highlight moments. Strange.
It's Rooney's attitude (or what I percieve his attitude to have been) that I thought was really poor last night. I don't think he played well (he wasn't the worst thing in the world) and I would expect Wayne Rooney to have a much greater effect on a game then he did last night (his position didn't help him, but I still expect more) ... but yeah, I just thought he looked like he didn't give a shit. The problem with that is of course is that I'm criticising him for something that may not even be true... but it's the impression I got.
Correct
Aye, it's bizarre. Likewise the doubles standards that lead to this thread being full of comments about Rooney's goals this season masking poor performances, yet Van Persie's (offside) finish last night suddenly means he had a good game. Then, when people post stats about contributions other than goals to support the idea that Rooney out-performed van Persie on the night suddenly stats are pointless. Nowt so blind as those that will not see.
There were two moments which summed up RvP's night for me. In the first half he tried that little step over and drop of the shoulders he used to create the goal against Sunderland, only to fall over his own feet and leave the ball behind. Then, in the second half, he tried to dribble someone near the corner flag and dragged the ball almost a foot out of play. He was clumsy and off the pace all game. Really poor volley straight at the keeper from the Valencia cross too (shouldn't have been offside anyway, he was looking along the line)
But hey, the new caf consensus is that Van Persie's "bottom level" is better than Rooney's "bottom level" so he couldn't possibly have been worse on the night...
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