Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Doesnt feel like our generation has any shortage of heroes to tell our grandkids about tho. Cantona had a je ne c'est quai, Ronaldo is certainly one of the best players to ever play for us, Giggs is a living legend and a walking, talking World Record personified.

I get what you are saying Cider but you make it sound like there is a deficit of legends for us to look back on, I just dont see it.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
That's a fair point, but I'm with the other side, and not purely because I don't like Rooney. Sir Bobby is United to the core, he lives and breathes United, and to be honest, apart from Giggs and Scholes who of our current squad can we say that about? The reason most if not all of the rest stay at United is to line their pockets and win trophies, and if better opportunities to do both were available they would be off in a heartbeat. And that's fair enough, football as a whole decided it was more a business than a sport a long time ago so we have to be that way to compete. But Id rather the all time scorer was a United man so to speak rather than just an employee.
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There's a few young lads coming through you can definitely say that about. Welbeck and Cleverley would be the obvious examples. Jonny Evans wasn't born in Manchester but he's been at the club since he was in primary school.
 
Selling Rooney is one thing. Selling him to a moneybags club like PSG for the £25m which their sources are confident is enough would be a new low for this club's willingness to bummed in the transfer market.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There's a few young lads coming through you can definitely say that about. Welbeck and Cleverley would be the obvious examples. Jonny Evans wasn't born in Manchester but he's been at the club since he was in primary school.
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Hopefully so, time will tell.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There's a few young lads coming through you can definitely say that about. Welbeck and Cleverley would be the obvious examples. Jonny Evans wasn't born in Manchester but he's been at the club since he was in primary school.
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I thought Cleverley was always a United fan as well, but I'm sure he mentioned he used to be a Bradford supporter as a kid when doing an interview for MUTV. He's obviously been at the club for a while and I'm sure he cares about United a great deal, but I'm not sure he's United to the core.
 
Adebesi said:
Doesnt feel like our generation has any shortage of heroes to tell our grandkids about tho. Cantona had a je ne c'est quai, Ronaldo is certainly one of the best players to ever play for us, Giggs is a living legend and a walking, talking World Record personified.

I get what you are saying Cider but you make it sound like there is a deficit of legends for us to look back on, I just dont see it.
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I never meant to imply that we've a shortage of modern legends; that's why I put the word 'more' in brackets before the word 'legends'.
 
Some rumour bullshit on Facebook claiming Rooney has signed for PSG.
 
Jacob said:
Some rumour bullshit on Facebook claiming Rooney has signed for PSG.
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It's because their former sports director said it's a done deal. It's obviously not though.
 
I just think he's been below par too often in his career. When he's at his best, he's brilliant, a top 5 player. But he just does not play at that level on a consistent basis. I do wonder why that is though
 
Escobar said:
I just think he's been below par too often in his career. When he's at his best, he's brilliant, a top 5 player. But he just does not play at that level on a consistent basis. I do wonder why that is though
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I agree with this 100%.

Over the years, baring one or two seasons (the one with all the headers) he has been very inconsistent. It used to be that he had a very good spell in November and for whatever reason would go off the boil again after that.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Says you. I disagree. Carrick and Vidic are both more valuable to us atm.
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There's a difference between "best" and "most valuable" but this shit about Rooney has been done to death. It's so tiresome.
 
Carl said:
There's a difference between "best" and "most valuable" but this shit about Rooney has been done to death. It's so tiresome.
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I disagree, surely best and most valuable are the same? Now if he had said most talented maybe, but to be fair we are just talking semantics now.
 
It's been a pretty slow week in here to be fair... maybe a good old fashioned argument over Semantics is what we need?

To be fair, I agree with Cina... Being the best player is different to being the most valuable. For what it's worth (nothing) I'd say RVP is our best player, and Carrick is our most valuable.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
That's a fair point, but I'm with the other side, and not purely because I don't like Rooney. Sir Bobby is United to the core, he lives and breathes United, and to be honest, apart from Giggs and Scholes who of our current squad can we say that about? The reason most if not all of the rest stay at United is to line their pockets and win trophies, and if better opportunities to do both were available they would be off in a heartbeat. And that's fair enough, football as a whole decided it was more a business than a sport a long time ago so we have to be that way to compete. But Id rather the all time scorer was a United man so to speak rather than just an employee.
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Wasn't Bobby a Newcastle United supporter growing up? Since playing for United, Charlton has become ultimately devoted to the club, but if we are dismissing the PSG link as nonsense, then who is to say that Rooney won't play for us until he retires, and then go on to be committed to the club long after his playing career is over, despite not being a boyhood fan? We just don't know. He's stated numerous times how he loves the club, and he stated in his book that even considering leaving was the biggest regret of his life. I just can't see him leaving, and if he stays and commits his future to us again, then I think he'd be a worthy man to be our top scorer.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
I disagree, surely best and most valuable are the same? Now if he had said most talented maybe, but to be fair we are just talking semantics now.
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No, best and most valuable are not the same. Michael Carrick is not our best player but the most valuable because there's literally nobody else in the squad who can do his job.
 
If one of them had to be out for a month or 6 weeks in the middle of the season, I think we'd cope better without Rooney because we have others who can play in his position - not so much the case with Carrick.

However, if we had to lose one out of the squad altogether, Rooney is way more important, and would be much harder to replace. Though if you factor in our disinclination to sign people in midfield replacing Carrick does look a bit harder, given that a new winger or two probably wouldnt do the trick.
 
Zen86 said:
If we lost Carrick, we really would be fooked.
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Yeah I agree but that's neither Rooney or Carrick's fault. If you had to choose between the 2 I think 99% of football fans would go with Rooney, it's down to the club to solve our ever present midfield problem it's been this 'bad' for years now. Player for player there's not a chance id take Carrick or Vidic over Rooney.
 
Castia said:
Yeah I agree but that's neither Rooney or Carrick's fault. If you had to choose between the 2 I think 99% of football fans would go with Rooney, it's down to the club to solve our ever present midfield problem it's been this 'bad' for years now. Player for player there's not a chance id take Carrick or Vidic over Rooney.
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So, yes, if we lost Carrick we really would be fooked.
 
Zen86 said:
So, yes, if we lost Carrick we really would be fooked.
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No shit. Still a pointless argument because that's the clubs problem not Rooney or Carrick's. I'll say it again you'd be a crazy to take him over Rooney.
If Carrick was to leave there's plenty of potential replacements, the same cant be said about Rooney.
 
Yeah, if the option was you have to get rid of one and can't get a replacement in, then you'd keep Carrick... thankfully, such ultimatums don't really exist.
 
I hope we keep him and I hope we reignite some form by freshening up the team a decent amount over summer.
 
You're all arguing the same thing but looking at it from different angles!
I think Adebesi has summed it up about right though:

Adebesi said:
If one of them had to be out for a month or 6 weeks in the middle of the season, I think we'd cope better without Rooney because we have others who can play in his position - not so much the case with Carrick.

However, if we had to lose one out of the squad altogether, Rooney is way more important, and would be much harder to replace. Though if you factor in our disinclination to sign people in midfield replacing Carrick does look a bit harder, given that a new winger or two probably wouldnt do the trick.
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Carrick is only the most valuable by default really.
 
So Michael Carrick is a better player than Wayne Rooney on the basis that, of the two, he's the one we most rely upon due to a lack of options in his position?

By that logic, if SAF replaced Michael Carrick with Lee Cattermole, then the latter would suddenly become a better player than Rooney also. If he then replaced Rooney with Messi the then Lee Cattermole would be a better player than Lionel Messi!

Obviously there's a difference between being the most important player and being the better player.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
So Michael Carrick is a better player than Wayne Rooney because he's the one of the two we most rely upon due to a lack of options in his position?

By that logic, if SAF replaced Michael Carrick with Lee Cattermole then the latter would suddenly become a better player than Rooney.

Obviously there's a difference between being the most important player and being the better player.
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Exactly what i was trying to say. Couldn't agree more.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
So Michael Carrick is a better player than Wayne Rooney on the basis that, of the two, he's the one we most rely upon due to a lack of options in his position?

By that logic, if SAF replaced Michael Carrick with Lee Cattermole then the latter would suddenly become a better player than Rooney.

Obviously there's a difference between being the most important player and being the better player.
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Again... I don't think anyone has actually said this. (apart from maybe Sparky... maybe)
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Again... I don't think anyone has actually said this. (apart from maybe Sparky... maybe)
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Sparky definitely said it:

dmode said:
Not for sale! He's still our best player.
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Sparky_Hughes said:
Except he isn't.
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ciderman9000000 said:
Yes he is.
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Sparky_Hughes said:
Says you. I disagree. Carrick and Vidic are both more valuable to us atm.
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Carl said:
There's a difference between "best" and "most valuable".
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Sparky_Hughes said:
I disagree, surely best and most valuable are the same?
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He's clearly saying that Carrick is a better player than Rooney on the basis that Carrick is more relied upon.
 
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