Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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ciderman9000000 said:
So much of your respect for Ryan Giggs was based on your perception of him as somebody who hasn't cheated on his wife?

Odd, I thought he'd earned his respect from being a fantastic footballer.
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Really?
You respect a person for having well coordinated feet?
I admire him as a fanatically talented footballer, but for me respect is something different. I respect a kid from a dirt poor family on some inner city slum estate who grinds and struggles to get an education and against the odds makes something of his life, I respect a parent who makes sacrifices and puts their child first, I respect someone who puts their life at risk to save a complete stranger, do I respect someone who has been given the very best training facilities, coaching medical help and everything else to make the most an innate talent, no not really. My respect for Giggs was for his loyalty when he could easily have left for more money, and for being a decent family man despite all the temptations that must have come his way over the years, more fool me. Doesnt mean I cannt still admire him as a footballer. Same goes for Rooney, I can admire what he brings to the team whilst still being of the opinion that he is a monumental cnut.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Not really, I can still admire him as a footballer yet think he is a monumental cnut for shagging his brothers wife.
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All you should really care about is him as a footballer. If you never found out he'd shagged his brothers wife you'd base your opinion on him purely on what you know about him, that he's a bloody good footballer who has played a record number of game for Manchester United and is the most decorated player in the British game. It shouldn't matter who he shags or has shagged.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
And yet you have this expectation of footballers to live up to the title of role model? You can't have it both ways.
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Show me where Ive said that? I have not once said they should be a role model, Ive said they represent the club on and off the field. Thats nothing to do with being a role model. Any parent who lets their kid take their moral bearings from a celebrity is a complete feckwit
 
Dirty Schwein said:
I was not criticizing Rooney or Footballers. I was saying that the way things are, footballers will be seen as role models because that's how our culture has evolved. I don't agree with this as much as you guys. Growing up, my role models were my parents but with new age media and celebrity culture, footballers are caught up with singers, actors and other celebrities as 'role models'.

Agree with this or disagree with it, you can't deny that that's how things have panned out, which is a sad sad day for such an 'evolved' species.
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I'm not denying that's how it has panned out, nor did I say you'd criticised Rooney for being a bad role model, but he has been, in this thread, and it is that which i'm disagreeing with.

Whether they are role models now because society is stupid is besides the point. They shouldn't be role models, we all know they shouldn't, and as such, we therefore shouldn't criticise them for not being very good at something they shouldn't be in the first place.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Really?
You respect a person for having well coordinated feet?
I admire him as a fanatically talented footballer, but for me respect is something different. I respect a kid from a dirt poor family on some inner city slum estate who grinds and struggles to get an education and against the odds makes something of his life, I respect a parent who makes sacrifices and puts their child first, I respect someone who puts their life at risk to save a complete stranger, do I respect someone who has been given the very best training facilities, coaching medical help and everything else to make the most an innate talent, no not really. My respect for Giggs was for his loyalty when he could easily have left for more money, and for being a decent family man despite all the temptations that must have come his way over the years, more fool me. Doesnt mean I cannt still admire him as a footballer. Same goes for Rooney, I can admire what he brings to the team whilst still being of the opinion that he is a monumental cnut.
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Yes I respect great footballers for exactly that.

I wouldn't presume to respect anybody on the basis of their private lives if I didn't know them personally.

As you said; more fool you.
 
The Shriveller said:
All you should really care about is him as a footballer. If you never found out he'd shagged his brothers wife you'd base your opinion on him purely on what you know about him, that he's a bloody good footballer who has played a record number of game for Manchester United and is the most decorated player in the British game. It shouldn't matter who he shags or has shagged.
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This is where Im not explaining myself well at all, my opinion of him still IS that he's a bloody good footballer who has played a record number of game for Manchester United and is the most decorated player in the British game. Same as my opinion of Rooney is that hes a fantastically talented footballer who contributes to Utds success, for me it takes more than being particularly good at your job to earn respect. I personally think Im very good at my job, do I expect people to respect me for it? No as its what Im paid to do so I do it, and I do it to the best of my abilities, so does Giggs, so does Rooney.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Yes I respect great footballers for exactly that.

I wouldn't presume to respect anybody on the basis of their private lives if I didn't know them personally.

As you said; more fool you.
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Im not claiming to be right or wrong, or telling anyone else they are, Its just my opinion.
 
Footballers are good role models when the lesson is the benefit of hard work and dedication. Occasionally they are also good role models for loyalty but that is getting rare these days.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
This is where Im not explaining myself well at all, my opinion of him still IS that he's a bloody good footballer who has played a record number of game for Manchester United and is the most decorated player in the British game. Same as my opinion of Rooney is that hes a fantastically talented footballer who contributes to Utds success, for me it takes more than being particularly good at your job to earn respect. I personally think Im very good at my job, do I expect people to respect me for it? No as its what Im paid to do so I do it, and I do it to the best of my abilities, so does Giggs, so does Rooney.
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Doing something 'to the best of your ability' doesn't necessarily mean you're any good at it.

I'd be very surprised If you are doing, whatever it is that you're doing, as good as those two are playing football, and not getting respect.
 
Moonwalker said:
Doing something 'to the best of your ability' doesn't necessarily mean you're any good at it.

I'd be very surprised If you are doing, whatever it is that you're doing, as good as those two are playing football, and not getting respect.
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Maybe I do get respect, my point is I don't expect or particularly deserve it in my opinion.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Maybe I do get respect, my point is I don't expect or particularly deserve it in my opinion.
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Have you ever cheated on anyone, taken drugs, committed an act of violence, made a racist comment, abused an animal, cheated at monopoly or put down a rebel uprising by willingly orchestrating the slaughter of civilians?
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Have you ever cheated on anyone, taken drugs, committed an act of violence, made a racist comment, cheated at monopoly or put down a rebel uprising by willingly orchestrating the slaughter of civilians?
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Cheated on anyone---No
Taken Drugs---Youthful experimentation with Weed so Id have to say yes
Committed an act of violence---Only in self defence
Made a racist comment---Not that Im aware of
Cheated at Monopoly---Every time.
Put down a rebel uprising by willingly orchestrating the slaughter of civilians---Who hasnt?
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Cheated on anyone---No
Taken Drugs---Youthful experimentation with Weed so Id have to say yes
Committed an act of violence---Only in self defence
Made a racist comment---Not that Im aware of
Cheated at Monopoly---Every time.
Put down a rebel uprising by willingly orchestrating the slaughter of civilians---Who hasnt?
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Then you're a cnut.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Maybe I do get respect, my point is I don't expect or particularly deserve it in my opinion.
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This isn't about your self esteem.

The point is, for the analogy that you made to work, you'd have to be one of the best in the world in your line of work.

And if you were, you'd rightly be respected, regardless of other transgressions.
 
Moonwalker said:
This isn't about your self esteem.

The point is, for the analogy that you made to work, you'd have to be one of the best in the world in your line of work.

And if you were, you'd rightly be respected, regardless of other transgressions.
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I wouldn't let him analyse any of my networks no matter how good he is; he cheats at monopoly and has thus lost a lot of respect from me.

For no apparent reason I'd previously respected him as somebody who doesn't cheat at board games.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
I wouldn't let him analyse any of my networks no matter how good he is; he cheats at monopoly and has thus lost a lot of respect from me.

For no apparent reason I'd previously respected him as somebody who doesn't cheat at board games.
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I've tagged him so you will never forget, cider.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
I wouldn't let him analyse any of my networks no matter how good he is; he cheats at monopoly and has thus lost a lot of respect from me.

For no apparent reason I'd previously respected him as somebody who doesn't cheat at board games.
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Once a cheat... as they say.

Flirtations with narcotics.

I'd like to hear more about this act of violence too, I suspect it wasn't as justified as he's trying to make it sound.
 
Moonwalker said:
Bit premature doc. This is just scratching the surface.

God only knows what macabre tagline you could stumble upon, if he starts to really open up.
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Look, I dont care what the courts said, that donkey was ASKING for it the little cock tease.

(Hows that?)
 
Sparky's obsession with Rooney has always been slightly disturbing.

I'm glad to see that his crudely construed rationale for it is starting to unravel though, as bizarre things like 'disliking his looks' and language skills start to rear their head.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Eh?

Well, if you break your leg, have a stroke or go down with tuberculosis I guess so...

I'm aware that some footballers lose the pace they once had as teenagers whilst still in their twenties. This is rare, though, and invariably follows on from recurrent muscular injuries (usually to hamstrings). Mickey Owen would be a good example.

Rooney's never had dodgy hammies though. Seems ludicrous to claim he can't run as quick now as he once did, aged just 27. Besides, he wasn't even that quick to begin with.
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Rooney had a lot of tiny injuries in his career, this year is another example, and IMO his worst injury was that one against Bayern away in 2009/2010 season when he twisted his ankle, and after that it was obvious we rushed him back too soon, and he re-damaged his ankle again in second leg at Old Trafford, and he even played with injury most of the game, and I think that injury took some of his explosiveness.

He scored 34 goals that season until the bayern game, and after that game he went 10 games without scoring(until end of season), and had an poor world cup, and IMO he never looked like player he used to be earlier that season, he looked slow, his touch was poor, it was period of his worst form that season. And next season until January(if I remember well) he had one of his worst periods too, combined with his transfer saga.

After that, Fergie found him new position, and he started relying much more on his passing, and he rarely played as a lone striker anymore.


Sultan said:
What am I reading here?

Most fans in the world would be happy to have Rooney in their team. We have fans here who think he's lost pace, and it's United's last chance to earn money? Rooney was never the fastest. I'm not sure how some people come to the conclusion he has lost pace.
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So, why doesn't he dribble anymore? Because defenders learned his tricks?

He was never fastest, but his explosiveness was one of his best attributes until around 2009, and after that he turned into little bit different type of player.

And btw, I didn't say we should sell him because he lost some pace, or that we should sell him at all, because that would be ridiculous since it would be almost impossible to buy replacemant for him, I was just answering on Pogue's question about Rooney's lack of dribbling in last two years or so.
 
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