Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Question: If Falcao is being touted for ~£45 million, why do United fans feel Rooney is worth substantially more? Leaving bias aside, I think it's a ludicrous notion. I had a long and detailed debate about Rooney and his re-sale value with some posters in the Newbies before I was promoted, and there was numerous posters who valued Rooney at £70 million plus! :lol:

I put it out there that if we received a bid for Rooney around the £50 million mark, we'd consider it very seriously. Somehow I was delusional and called all sorts for it. Personally, I think Rooney's heart isn't quite in it as much as it was when he first arrived, and his performances have hinted towards that. Privately I think the manager is a little disappointed at Rooney's reaction to van Persie's signature as he hasn't been as effective as he'd have wanted him to be. Now that's not a reason alone for selling him, but I genuinely don't think Rooney is as indispensable as he was in 2010, for example.

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this as it was a fairly divisive topic when I last brought it up. For the record, I'm not advocating selling him, I'm just interested to hear opinions on how much we could realistically get for him if he was to be moved on.
 
People shouldn't be so sure Rooney will stay on for the long term. I can't call it because I really think it could go either way. I think we'd be mad to let him go, but at the same time he is a household name who has options and he may well have opportunities to sign for clubs who can offer plenty of success and money.

Why shouldn't he go and play abroad if the deal is right for everyone involved? It suits people for the English players to stay in England, but when it comes to arguments about the national team, we're shit because most of our players are in the PL and rarely attract interest from foreign sides (which is a poor argument imo).

His contract is winding down again and after a stop start season, it's going to be a speculation frenzy regarding Rooney. But at the same time I'm convinced at the future of Hernandez either considering his lack of starts and general playing time. Tabloids are going to jump all over this until September 1st.

Don't take everything you read as true, but also don't rule anything out because I know I won't be.
 
Amar__ said:
So, why doesn't he dribble anymore? Because defenders learned his tricks?

He was never fastest, but his explosiveness was one of his best attributes until around 2009, and after that he turned into little bit different type of player.

And btw, I didn't say we should sell him because he lost some pace, or that we should sell him at all, because that would be ridiculous since it would be almost impossible to buy replacemant for him, I was just answering on Pogue's question about Rooney's lack of dribbling in last two years or so.
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His touch has nothing to do with losing his pace and explosiveness, that's due to loss of form. Most players dribble less as they mature.
 
Sultan said:
His touch has nothing to do with losing his pace and explosiveness, that's due to loss of form. Most players dribble less as they mature.
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He scored 34 goals that season before that injury, so it's fair to say he was already matured back then?



Yet, he used to dribble a lot even that season before the injury.

As for poor touch, I know, I was just saying how injury negatively affected on him.
 
nahealai said:
Question: If Falcao is being touted for ~£45 million, why do United fans feel Rooney is worth substantially more? Leaving bias aside, I think it's a ludicrous notion. I had a long and detailed debate about Rooney and his re-sale value with some posters in the Newbies before I was promoted, and there was numerous posters who valued Rooney at £70 million plus! :lol:

I put it out there that if we received a bid for Rooney around the £50 million mark, we'd consider it very seriously. Somehow I was delusional and called all sorts for it. Personally, I think Rooney's heart isn't quite in it as much as it was when he first arrived, and his performances have hinted towards that. Privately I think the manager is a little disappointed at Rooney's reaction to van Persie's signature as he hasn't been as effective as he'd have wanted him to be. Now that's not a reason alone for selling him, but I genuinely don't think Rooney is as indispensable as he was in 2010, for example.

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this as it was a fairly divisive topic when I last brought it up. For the record, I'm not advocating selling him, I'm just interested to hear opinions on how much we could realistically get for him if he was to be moved on.
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No way is Rooney worth 70M, but I imagine Falcao is 'only' touted at 45M as Atletico are a smaller club than United. If a player like Bale was playing for United, he would be valued at 60M+ no bother. As it is, people are saying ~40M should be enough. Same idea with Falcao, and tbh, I'm not even sure if he would be going for that much had Atletico not signed him ~40M from Porto a few seasons back.
 
nahealai said:
Question: If Falcao is being touted for ~£45 million, why do United fans feel Rooney is worth substantially more? Leaving bias aside, I think it's a ludicrous notion. I had a long and detailed debate about Rooney and his re-sale value with some posters in the Newbies before I was promoted, and there was numerous posters who valued Rooney at £70 million plus! :lol:

I put it out there that if we received a bid for Rooney around the £50 million mark, we'd consider it very seriously. Somehow I was delusional and called all sorts for it. Personally, I think Rooney's heart isn't quite in it as much as it was when he first arrived, and his performances have hinted towards that. Privately I think the manager is a little disappointed at Rooney's reaction to van Persie's signature as he hasn't been as effective as he'd have wanted him to be. Now that's not a reason alone for selling him, but I genuinely don't think Rooney is as indispensable as he was in 2010, for example.

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this as it was a fairly divisive topic when I last brought it up. For the record, I'm not advocating selling him, I'm just interested to hear opinions on how much we could realistically get for him if he was to be moved on.
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I don't think there can be many arguments about Falcao being a better striker right now, as you could say that he is the best striker in world football. However, Falcao plays for Atletico Madrid, who aren't a team who consistently gets in the Champions league, or a team who challenges for trophies. The most they can hope for is probably winning the europa league in most seasons. Teams like that will find it incredibly hard to hold out offers of around 40 million for a player like him, especially because as far as I know they are in financial trouble, and will probably only get what they paid for him a few years ago. If he was playing for a United, City, or Bayern then he would be going for over 60 million easily.
Basically why I think people would expect at least 50 million for Rooney to be sold.
 
Amar__ said:
He scored 34 goals that season before that injury, so it's fair to say he was already matured back then?



Yet, he used to dribble a lot even that season before the injury.

As for poor touch, I know, I was just saying how injury negatively affected on him.
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Rooney was immense that season. I've always preferred him as an out-and-out striker.
 
He was a man possessed that season. The first Milan game summed it up, he was getting horrible service in the first half but he was desperate to make something happen, Valencia comes on in the second half and puts a lofted cross into the area and Rooney turns it into a goal. Next goal he heads down a long ball into the path of Fletcher and moves in between Nesta and Silva and receives Fletcher's lofted ball and heads it into the net making it look easy.

The atmosphere in that second Bayern game once everyone found out Rooney was playing was something special.
 
He seems physically bigger and more explosive in that video, or else it's just his hair making him look different.
 
bosnian_red said:
I don't think there can be many arguments about Falcao being a better striker right now, as you could say that he is the best striker in world football. However, Falcao plays for Atletico Madrid, who aren't a team who consistently gets in the Champions league, or a team who challenges for trophies. The most they can hope for is probably winning the europa league in most seasons. Teams like that will find it incredibly hard to hold out offers of around 40 million for a player like him, especially because as far as I know they are in financial trouble, and will probably only get what they paid for him a few years ago. If he was playing for a United, City, or Bayern then he would be going for over 60 million easily.
Basically why I think people would expect at least 50 million for Rooney to be sold.
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The question should be "who would have bought Rooney for 50M when Falcao is available for 40M"

My bet rooney will command somewhere between 20-30M if he's sold next season

Bar Ronaldo, I don't recall we're making the meal out of our star player (Beckham, RvN, Stam and co. were sold at far from what they're worth)
 
Sky1981 said:
The question should be "who would have bought Rooney for 50M when Falcao is available for 40M"

My bet rooney will command somewhere between 20-30M if he's sold next season

Bar Ronaldo, I don't recall we're making the meal out of our star player (Beckham, RvN, Stam and co. were sold at far from what they're worth)
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Even if Rooney's sold next season, selling him for 20-30 million would be ridiculous. He's still rated very highly around the world and many teams out there would almost certainly be willing to pay over 40 million for him. PSG for example would probably bid around 50million for him if they thought they had a chance to get him. No way would we ever sell Wayne Rooney for 20 million.
 
Sky1981 said:
The question should be "who would have bought Rooney for 50M when Falcao is available for 40M"

My bet rooney will command somewhere between 20-30M if he's sold next season

Bar Ronaldo, I don't recall we're making the meal out of our star player (Beckham, RvN, Stam and co. were sold at far from what they're worth)
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Not a chance in hell Rooney would ever be valued under 35M. His name alone demands that kind of fee. My bet would be 40M if Rooney was sold.
 
We sold becks in his prime for 25M which is peanuts, considering his marketing rights alone would probably cover for that.

The thing is, no teams would even consider buying Rooney, there is only a handful of teams who can afford him, and can entice him to go

City/Chelsea - Probably not due to our rivalry
Madrid/Barcelona - They don't really need him to be honest, he probably wouldn't walk into their starting XI
Munich/Juve/Dortmund/etc - I don't think they can and would want to spent 50M on Rooney

I can only see PSG as potential clubs for him, transfer and wage wise they can afford him, and without competition I don't think we can demand much if we really wanna cash in on him before he's hitting 30
 
It depends entirely on the circumstances of his departure. If the club become desperate to get rid, his price will naturally come down. If SAF doesn't want to sell but Rooney wants to leave, we'll be able to hold out for a larger fee.
 
Sky1981 said:
We sold becks in his prime for 25M which is peanuts, considering his marketing rights alone would probably cover for that.

The thing is, no teams would even consider buying Rooney, there is only a handful of teams who can afford him, and can entice him to go

City/Chelsea - Probably not due to our rivalry
Madrid/Barcelona - They don't really need him to be honest, he probably wouldn't walk into their starting XI
Munich/Juve/Dortmund/etc - I don't think they can and would want to spent 50M on Rooney

I can only see PSG as potential clubs for him, transfer and wage wise they can afford him, and without competition I don't think we can demand much if we really wanna cash in on him before he's hitting 30
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Rooney is a better striker than either Higuain or Benzema, he would improve Madrid. Chelsea and City wouldn't say no to him just because of our rivalry; they'd be more than happy to weaken us.

Fernando Torres cost 50 million after 18 injury-riddled, mediocre months. And there was no competition. Rooney is an even bigger name at a bigger club... selling him for anything less than 40 million would be ridiculous, considering some of the prices paid these days.
 
Siorac said:
Rooney is a better striker than either Higuain or Benzema, he would improve Madrid. Chelsea and City wouldn't say no to him just because of our rivalry; they'd be more than happy to weaken us.

Fernando Torres cost 50 million after 18 injury-riddled, mediocre months. And there was no competition. Rooney is an even bigger name at a bigger club... selling him for anything less than 40 million would be ridiculous, considering some of the prices paid these days.
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That's subjective to be honest

I don't believe for a chance that Rooney is 50M better than Higuain/Benzema, considering Real only plays with 1 striker, they'd have more than enough in that department.

I don't know, I'm hoping we can get 50M for him as well, if we finally sell him, but I personally don't think so... 30M is the max we can get, considering if actually listening to offers it'll mean that Rooney have had a word of wanting to get out behind the door.
 
Amar__ said:
Rooney had a lot of tiny injuries in his career, this year is another example, and IMO his worst injury was that one against Bayern away in 2009/2010 season when he twisted his ankle, and after that it was obvious we rushed him back too soon, and he re-damaged his ankle again in second leg at Old Trafford, and he even played with injury most of the game, and I think that injury took some of his explosiveness.

He scored 34 goals that season until the bayern game, and after that game he went 10 games without scoring(until end of season), and had an poor world cup, and IMO he never looked like player he used to be earlier that season, he looked slow, his touch was poor, it was period of his worst form that season. And next season until January(if I remember well) he had one of his worst periods too, combined with his transfer saga.

After that, Fergie found him new position, and he started relying much more on his passing, and he rarely played as a lone striker anymore.




So, why doesn't he dribble anymore? Because defenders learned his tricks?

He was never fastest, but his explosiveness was one of his best attributes until around 2009, and after that he turned into little bit different type of player.

And btw, I didn't say we should sell him because he lost some pace, or that we should sell him at all, because that would be ridiculous since it would be almost impossible to buy replacemant for him, I was just answering on Pogue's question about Rooney's lack of dribbling in last two years or so.
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He sprained his ankle. It wasn't even a bad sprain. As the reports said at the time, "he suffered only minor ligament damage".

Christ, if an injury like that really did permanently slow footballers down the game would be played at walking pace.

Each and every injury Rooney has had would be something from which you'd expect a complete recovery. Bar the two metatarsal fractures (in different feet) he's hardly ever had the same injury twice (which might have long-term consequences) If his ankle had been anything less than 100% recovered after the Bayern injury then you would expect some kind of weakness of instability in that same ankle and recurrent injuries to the same joint.

What it definitely would not do is somehow stop him running as quickly as he once did. Ankles have little or nothing to do with generating pace in a sprint. Just ask Oscar Pistorius.
 
So Rooney isn't good enough for us, but he's still worth £40-50m? Fantastic logic in here.
Reasons given for selling him are commonly: shit first touch, too many sloppy passes, starts the season fat, lost almost a step and a half in speed(?), doesn't dribble anymore, doesn't score enough screamers, doesn't look like he gives a shit anymore. Yet we expect £40-50m?
 
I don't even understand some people's insistence on entertaining the idea or saying that we should. It's mad. We don't have to sell players to fund transfers and losing him would weaken us, even against City he showed moments of class, some of his link up play in the first half was brilliant.
 
paceme said:
I don't even understand some people's insistence on entertaining the idea or saying that we should. It's mad. We don't have to sell players to fund transfers and losing him would weaken us, even against City he showed moments of class, some of his link up play in the first half was brilliant.
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I don't get it either.
 
LR7 said:
So Rooney isn't good enough for us, but he's still worth £40-50m? Fantastic logic in here.
Reasons given for selling him are commonly: shit first touch, too many sloppy passes, starts the season fat, lost almost a step and a half in speed(?), doesn't dribble anymore, doesn't score enough screamers, doesn't look like he gives a shit anymore. Yet we expect £40-50m?
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:lol: add 'he slept with a prostitute' to that list.

There's a spackfeat epidemic going on in this thread. Most of you need to be taken out into the street and shot.
 
Even I with my apparently unreasonable dislike for the scouse git don't think he should be sold.
 
Just a reminder...

picsart1365763167691.jpg
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Can someone do the maths and rewrite that table as goals/game?

Might be interesting but I can't be arsed. Just eyeballing it and looks like Rooney/Rowley would be just behind Law with Sir Bobby in fourth place.

EDIT; Dennis Viollet might be right up there actually...
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Code: 
Ruud      - 0.68
Viollet   - 0.61
Law       - 0.59
Rowley    - 0.50
Rooney    - 0.50
Yorke     - 0.44
Ronaldo   - 0.40
Charlton  - 0.33
 
Wanting to sell Rooney is madness in my book.I hated for all the shit he pulled for his contract renewal and I still do but at the same time I would like him to stay and finish his career at this club.
 
LR7 said:
So Rooney isn't good enough for us, but he's still worth £40-50m? Fantastic logic in here.
Reasons given for selling him are commonly: shit first touch, too many sloppy passes, starts the season fat, lost almost a step and a half in speed(?), doesn't dribble anymore, doesn't score enough screamers, doesn't look like he gives a shit anymore. Yet we expect £40-50m?
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Umm, I expect a high price if we sell him (and I hope we won't) because I consider him one of the best strikers in the world.

Can't talk for the others here but I think that logic is fairly sound.
 
I can't believe people are even contemplating selling Rooney. Even when playing badly, he's still worth his place in the team.
 
redmeister said:
I can't believe people are even contemplating selling Rooney. Even when playing badly, he's still worth his place in the team.
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That's a completely different matter and I disagree totally, but when on form he is a quality player. I hate all this playing players who are clearly out of form, it provides no motivation to get their shit together and get back into form.
 
Siorac said:
Umm, I expect a high price if we sell him (and I hope we won't) because I consider him one of the best strikers in the world.

Can't talk for the others here but I think that logic is fairly sound.
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The point I'm making is if he's one if the best in the world, why would we sell him? And if he's not good enough for us then why is he worth £40-50m?
 
We sold Ronaldo because he wanted to go. Rooney might want to leave. Might not. Only God knows.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
That's a completely different matter and I disagree totally, but when on form he is a quality player. I hate all this playing players who are clearly out of form, it provides no motivation to get their shit together and get back into form.
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When Rooney of off form, it's because things aren't coming off for him technically. He still runs his ass of, puts the challenges and drives the team. Some people on here say he doesn't, but to be honest I think that's since he threatened to leave and some have slight agenda against him. To me he's always committed and looks motivated. I think at times he gets frustrated and I can understand why some can claim he doesn't seem to want to play, but I don't agree with that at all. An out of form Rooney is still an asset to the team in my opinion as he epitomizes the "glazed eye" (as SAF described in his David Frost interview) attitude needed at Utd.
 
Funnily enough, I have never been that offended about his whole contract 'scandal' personally. He didn't come out and say it in the media initially, it was Fergie who broke the news that 'Rooney wanted out' publicly. Aafter that, Rooney was obliged to respond.

As to his reasoning, it was shared by many United fans to varying degrees anyway. Including myself, I will admit. Our main rivals were competing for a higher calibre of player than us, and at the point, it seemed Rooney was the only real 'star' in the team. Concerns about us being outpaced by bigger spenders home and abroad is not the most unreasonable thing I'd ever heard. In fact, I am pretty sure it came around a similar time where Gill was making noises publicly that United will not be competing at the top end of the transfer market, and the 'no value' thing was at its peak.

I was glad he stayed of course, but I don't discount his points. If we did sell him for £50m or so back then, we probably wouldn't have gone and bought a player of similar value/standing anyway - which would have almost validated what he said in some way. This happened the last time we sold a superstar - the press linked us with all the best players available but that is not what happened.

Anyway, yea, I never really painted his as some huge villain, as we had spent conservatively for a couple of seasons at the time, and he was virtually carrying the team on his own. He had doubts, Fergie convinced him, and then he signed. Yes, he got a pay-rise too, as he would have done if his contract was negotiated without controversy too, given he was far and away or best player.
 
I just think the whole premise of deciding you'd sell one of your best players, if a fee of '>x' was offered is fundamentallly flawed.

For starters, there's no guarantee the money will be invested in the squad (a lesson we all surely learned when Ronaldo was sold?) and even if the money is spent on a new player, what happens if he flops?

Let's not forget the huge sums of money we spent on Hargreaves, Berbatov and Anderson only to end up needing to spend even more money on replacements (still hypothetical, as far as Ando is concerned)

The one and only reason I would suggest selling a player of proven quality would be if his replacement is already at the club and there are doubts about his commitment to the cause. Looking at it purely as a financial transaction is daft IMO (although annoyingly common these days)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I just think the whole premise of deciding you'd sell one of your best players, if a fee of '>x' was offered is fundamentallly flawed.

For starters, there's no guarantee the money will be invested in the squad (a lesson we all surely learned when Ronaldo was sold?) and even if the money is spent on a new player, what happens if he flops?

Let's not forget the huge sums of money we spent on Hargreaves, Berbatov and Anderson only to end up needing to spend even more money on replacements (still hypothetical, as far as Ando is concerned)

The one and only reason I would suggest selling a player of proven quality would be if his replacement is already at the club and there are doubts about his commitment to the cause. Looking at it purely as a financial transaction is daft IMO (although annoyingly common these days)
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I think with Rooney, I could see us cashing in simply because - yes, this i the lat chance for a big payday on him, and at 28 this year, I can see him declining in the not to distant future. I don't think he has the body of a Giggs who will go on and on at the highest level well into his 30s, and while I am no medical expert by a long shot, I wouldn't be suprised if our medical team can predict a decline within the next few years and the manager has made a decision on that basis.

If my theory is correct about him not being that good in a couple of years or so, then the club may think £40m - £50m now is worth it, especially if they have a contingency.
 
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